Sorcerer vs Wizard - Wizard Wins

[Bronko]

apples Win Over Oranges Because Apples Are More Red On The Outside And White On The Inside. Also Apples Keep Their Seeds In One Place And I Like Apple Juice More Than Orange Juice.

Qft! :d

[Caine52184]

I'm almost level 15 on mine. WF for the win.

I'm an indestructable forc...

I agree with the WF for the win ..it took me 2 years too long to break down and make a WF caster..once ya go WF ya never go back . I have a capped WF Wizzy...I cant imagine ever playing a fleshy caster again lol. I just cant decide if I should bring her back as a Sorc or Wizzy with the sorc past life

[smatt]

Turn that frown upside down, Winky.

I kid, I kid...

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year.

My point was I have no screenshot.. So I'm ****ed

And of course Merry Christmas and Happy Beer Year to you as well

[Gunga]

I agree with the WF for the win ..it took me 2 years too long to break down and make a WF caster..once ya go WF ya never go back . I have a capped WF Wizzy...I cant imagine ever playing a fleshy caster again lol. I just cant decide if I should bring her back as a Sorc or Wizzy with the sorc past life

You'll make up for 1 of your 2 lost dcs...

[Xyfiel]

Why pick either when you can TR into a NightElf Mohawk?

[stockwizard5]

Due to endless analysis not needed here we can limit the discussion to the two versions:

WF Wizard vs Human Sorc

As I have multiple copies of multiple variants here is what I use:

1. WF Wizard has faster/more consistent self healing = best for solo where things are unavoidably a mess (or cursed)

2. Human Sorc has more (everything) including party support = best for grouping and solo where speed wins

[knightgf]

All the classes in this game have unique strengths and weaknesses. Some classes do better than others, but there is NO overall 'best' class in this game at all. If there was, the concept and whole structure of D&D would be completely ruined and the majority of the population on DDO:EU would consist of that class who dominates all others completely.

Plus, its a team game. Isin't as good of a team game if everyone played against each other using the same class, is it? Not to say it would not be a team game at all if it were...

[Airie]

You die? See, there's the kicker. What did you give up to get UMD that high? I expect that it was hit points.

Good point, usually we can't have everything, right? I sacrificed the wizard capstone and some SP too, I opted for 2 levels of rogue. HPs are pretty solid at 469, sans rage. 489 with rage. If I pull a +3 con tome, 509 (with rage).

But, yeah, sorcs are just as good, in a different way. Or at least that's my observation.

[Aaxeyu]

Good point, usually we can't have everything, right? I sacrificed the wizard capstone and some SP too, I opted for 2 levels of rogue. HPs are pretty solid at 469, sans rage. 489 with rage. If I pull a +3 con tome, 509 (with rage).

But, yeah, sorcs are just as good, in a different way. Or at least that's my observation.

Many knowledgable players are quite misguided in the ways of the Wizard.

So your sorc has a better UMD than my wizard?
And a better Will save, right?

40 umd, no 7finger, no golden cartouche. 40 is what I walk around with, with my normal gear.
29 will save. If yours is better, it's not by more than a couple points I would bet.

If I ever looted litany, I'd be happy to drop my umd to a measly 39 and wear it instead of the head.

30 fort save. Yours is close to that, right?
36 reflex. Again, I'm sure your sorc is in the ballpark.

I'll give you the quicken point.. I've died more times than I can count by being too frugal with my spell points and turning quicken off when I shouldn't have.

There are many advantages to the Sorc though. And the playstyle may suit some more than others. I like playing a wizard more. Both are solid, when done correctly, which isn't rocket surgery in either case.

Sigh...
The discussion have been about pure sorcs vs pure wizards, not pure sorcs VS multiclassed and pure wizards.
Try to be consistent, or at least be cleared on what you are comparing.


To all those who keep saying how versatile wizards are compared to sorcs, can you please give us an example from endgame?

The fact that wizards have to play "smarter" just says that sorcs are indeed better.
Sorcs can do everything wizards can do, and they do it more efficient.

[storm357]

I've always been a big sorc fan over wizards for the reasons everyone and thier brother have stated in the past, mostly the larger mana pool.
...right up untill I decided to go completionist on one of my toons that has the torq, abbot gloves, spell storing ring, bauble and two CO shroud items. Took wizy as my third incarnation(bard being the second just to get it out of the way with as little xp penalty as possible:P ) It was the usual mana concervation wizzy right up untill level 11 when sudenly mana became a complete non issue and all of the wizards extra feats and spells suddenly smacked me in the forhead.
For me at least, it turned out that it all boiled down to mana.. I absolutly hated running out of spell points and being useless or near useless to anyone including myself. With that problem removed entirely, the wizard was a far better class for me in every way.

[quickgrif]

I've always been a big sorc fan over wizards for the reasons everyone and thier brother have stated in the past, mostly the larger mana pool.
...right up untill I decided to go completionist on one of my toons that has the torq, abbot gloves, spell storing ring, bauble and two CO shroud items. Took wizy as my third incarnation(bard being the second just to get it out of the way with as little xp penalty as possible:P ) It was the usual mana concervation wizzy right up untill level 11 when sudenly mana became a complete non issue and all of the wizards extra feats and spells suddenly smacked me in the forhead.
For me at least, it turned out that it all boiled down to mana.. I absolutly hated running out of spell points and being useless or near useless to anyone including myself. With that problem removed entirely, the wizard was a far better class for me in every way.

Well yeah if you are going to grind that much??!!?!? But then again sorc with all the feats as well could be hell on wheels as well.

[Airie]

Sigh...
The discussion have been about pure sorcs vs pure wizards, not pure sorcs VS multiclassed and pure wizards.
Try to be consistent, or at least be cleared on what you are comparing.

Sigh...
A comparison of the two without considering the multiclass options wouldn't be a complete or realistic comparison, in my opinion.
I didn't say I was only comparing a multiclass wizard to a pure sorc. I don't know what other peoples' opinions are, but each has unique pros/cons in all combos the class promotes.

For example, sorcs multiclass very well with paladins, and even barbs a bit. Wizards multiclass very well with rogues. Pures have different aspects that you can consider too. I prefer to look at it with the options people actually use and/or the options I would consider.

[Aaxeyu]

Sigh...
A comparison of the two without considering the multiclass options wouldn't be a complete or realistic comparison, in my opinion.

Quoting someone who is discussing pures and saying that he is wrong and shows an example that just happens to be a multiclass(but that part you don't even mention) seems pretty stupid to me.

I agree that you have to consider multiclass options, but I strongly disagree with your methods.

[Aspenor]

Before responding to some specific points, I'd like to suggest if you run only one of the two classes instead of both, you could just say your class is good but better not to claim it is better/worse than the other. Besides, if you don't have experience in running your wiz/sorc in high level content, please don't assume they have certain weakness base on information on paper.

Have played both wizard and sorcerer, sorcerer wins (by an extremely large margin).

besides, as I've quoted in #1, there are some elaboration of my reasoning in my blog post: http://my.ddo.com/ddoer/2009/12/28/sorc-vs-wiz/

...

1. sorc doesn't really have enough feat slot for FoP

1. Not necessarily true.
   

2. both wiz/sorc has a high base will save (12) and lower reflex save (6). Without FoP, a sorc could get close to 30 will save, and this make FoP not worthwhile. Sorc will save: 12 base + 3 wis (base wis 8 + 2 tome + 6 gear) + 5 resistance + 4 GH + 2 HoGF (+2 Occult Slayer Set) = 26/28. You could make it even higher by putting ability points in Wis and assume a +3 tome which is attainable.

[Aspenor]

Due to endless analysis not needed here we can limit the discussion to the two versions:

WF Wizard vs Human Sorc

As I have multiple copies of multiple variants here is what I use:

1. WF Wizard has faster/more consistent self healing = best for solo where things are unavoidably a mess (or cursed)

2. Human Sorc has more (everything) including party support = best for grouping and solo where speed wins

I suppose this post sums it up very well.

[ddoer]

Have played both wizard and sorcerer, sorcerer wins (by an extremely large margin).

indeed, for your playing style, Sorc is much better and I don't disagree with it. From what I have read from the Sorc forum, you don't focus on (or completely ignore?) spell penetration and run as a pure nuker. When you don't use most of the spells, the wiz's adv doesn't apply to you, and you will have enough spell slots for nuking.

Many other sorc/wiz use different spells for nuking, instant kill and CC, however.

[MarcusCole]

Maybe you should stop standing around so much.

I've run with ddoer many a time and it is rarely if ever I see him standing around doing nothing. He almost always has enough sp and when he doesn't its very simple to regain plenty of sp via Torc/Con. Opp.

just my 2cp

[dj.kickz]

a good wizard will have higher DCs then a sorc, sure a sorc will be able to nuke for more damage but if i wanted to smash buttons until i was out of SP I'd roll a paly (and do more damage).

[SquelchHU]

I like Wizards. I really do. And they do have some advantages, such as higher spell DCs, and more feats.

However the thing to keep in mind is that this is a narrow game. Narrow characters win narrow games because narrow games do not appreciate broadness, as a result the sorcerer really isn't missing that many good spells. And the advantage of sorcerers only grows as more and more of the obscure, but useful in the right situation spells are nerfed.

Obviously this changes with the metagame, but as it is now the devs seem to be having a love/hate relationship with sorcs. Why love/hate? Well, have you seen the endgame content?

Wizards are missing out on the former though. Don't get me wrong, plenty of good wizards out there (hell, I've ran with Ghoste before, I'd be lying if I said I didn't) just that the metagame is currently biased against them.

[Aspenor]

indeed, for your playing style, Sorc is much better and I don't disagree with it. From what I have read from the Sorc forum, you don't focus on (or completely ignore?) spell penetration and run as a pure nuker. When you don't use most of the spells, the wiz's adv doesn't apply to you, and you will have enough spell slots for nuking.

Many other sorc/wiz use different spells for nuking, instant kill and CC, however.

My wizard was not built the same way at all. Full spell penetration, necro specced. I probably used more spells than 95% of wizards out there.

Sorcerer still wins. More spells are unnecessary.