Sorcerer vs Wizard - Wizard Wins

[ddoer]

There are a couple of threads about sorc vs wiz in the past. And my views are as follows:

Advantages of Sorc

1. faster: fast casting and shorter cooldown timer
2. more SP
3. UMD self-healing

Advantages of Wiz

1. spell versatility: more spell slots, change swap spells, and get new spell one level earlier than sorc
2. insightful reflex
3. better capstone and +1 DC
4. more feat
5. more skill points
6. better past life feat
7. with the bless from Turbine

I had a cap'd sorc, and originally plan to reincarnate to wiz and then back to Sorc. But in my 2nd life, I found wiz is actually much better than sorc *in my playing style* - do a lot of soloing when leveling up, and play wiz as a nuker + instant killer, and use mana very carefully when in party

For sorc's adv, wiz could get an identical casting time with quicken and workaround the longer cooldown timer by casting multiple spells in cycle. SP difference is around 650-700 in end game, and in full party, I use my mana quite conservatively. UMD is not an issue for my drow with 14 initial cha and all the UMD gears that gives me 38.5 UMD without +3 tome. (and 39 with +3 tome that I'll use in my next TR) In short, sorc's adv are not significant to me.

For wiz's adv, I found the extra spell slots and the ability to swap spell make a significant difference to me, esp in solo and in small party. The insightful reflex is simple great. The other benefits like better DC, better past life feat (with effect in the next TR only) , and more skill points drive me to decide to go for wiz in the next life.

Please find my full comment on this topic at "sorc vs wiz - 10 reasons why wiz is better"

[Renvar]

If you are going to quote insightful reflexes as a benefit of the wiz, then to be fair you need to quote Force of Personality as a benefit of the Sorc. If you are soloing, then Will saves are very much an issue, if not more so that Reflex saves. Nothing ruins a solo run quite so fast as an untimely Hold Person.

I enjoy both classes for what they bring to the table. i'm not sure either is greater than the other. It's like saying a fighter is better than a barbarian. Or a paladin. They each have interesting play dynamics. But I agree that for solo play a Wiz, particularly one splashed with Rogue, can be quite fun to play.

[Gol]

If you are going to quote insightful reflexes as a benefit of the wiz, then to be fair you need to quote Force of Personality as a benefit of the Sorc. If you are soloing, then Will saves are very much an issue, if not more so that Reflex saves. Nothing ruins a solo run quite so fast as an untimely Hold Person.

Evil Warforged Robot voice: Die fleshy.

[Samiusbot]

wiz wins.

But you will never convince the people of that.

It is all about mana pools and casting and cool down times.

Not smart mana and spells.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Apples win over oranges because apples are more red on the outside and white on the inside. Also apples keep their seeds in one place and I like apple juice more than orange juice.

[Harncw]

Apples win over oranges because apples are more red on the outside and white on the inside. Also apples keep their seeds in one place and I like apple juice more than orange juice.

You NOOB!

everyone knows orange juice is the best!

[JaxtorMagnus]

Apples win over oranges because apples are more red on the outside and white on the inside. Also apples keep their seeds in one place and I like apple juice more than orange juice.

Best response ever. You get a +1 cool factor.

[Bronko]

apples Win Over Oranges Because Apples Are More Red On The Outside And White On The Inside. Also Apples Keep Their Seeds In One Place And I Like Apple Juice More Than Orange Juice.

Qft! :d

[Failedlegend]

For sorc's adv, wiz could get an identical casting time with quicken and workaround the longer cooldown timer by casting multiple spells in cycle.

Agreed once I got second level spells I started to alternate between Niac's and Scorching Ray and there's was little to no delay in my damage based spell casting anymore (even without quicken).

Also add advantages for wiz = no casting ability penalty for WF

[quickgrif]

There are a couple of threads about sorc vs wiz in the past. And my views are as follows:

Advantages of Sorc

1. faster: fast casting and shorter cooldown timer
2. more SP
3. UMD self-healing

Advantages of Wiz

1. spell versatility: more spell slots, change swap spells, and get new spell one level earlier than sorc
2. insightful reflex
3. better capstone and +1 DC
4. more feat
5. more skill points
6. better past life feat
7. with the bless from Turbine

I had a cap'd sorc, and originally plan to reincarnate to wiz and then back to Sorc. But in my 2nd life, I found wiz is actually much better than sorc *in my playing style* - do a lot of soloing when leveling up, and play wiz as a nuker + instant killer, and use mana very carefully when in party

For sorc's adv, wiz could get an identical casting time with quicken and workaround the longer cooldown timer by casting multiple spells in cycle. SP difference is around 650-700 in end game, and in full party, I use my mana quite conservatively. UMD is not an issue for my drow with 14 initial cha and all the UMD gears that gives me 38.5 UMD without +3 tome. (and 39 with +3 tome that I'll use in my next TR) In short, sorc's adv are not significant to me.

For wiz's adv, I found the extra spell slots and the ability to swap spell make a significant difference to me, esp in solo and in small party. The insightful reflex is simple great. The other benefits like better DC, better past life feat (with effect in the next TR only) , and more skill points drive me to decide to go for wiz in the next life.

Please find my full comment on this topic at "sorc vs wiz - 10 reasons why wiz is better"

More spell slots right now is not much of an advantage with the current spell selection. I can get whatever I need in the game on a sorc.

Insightful reflexes are ok but force of personality keeps a sorc from getting commanded down.

More feats are nice but you can get most of what you need of a sorc.

More skill points are again nice but you don't need em but for a couple of stats like umd and concentration.

Also unless you are playing a warforged wizard the higher umd you gain from having a high charisma score is very handy indeed to have.

[dasein18]

Want to do a real comparison? Weight each category.. listing out more benefits for one class vs. the other without giving the weight of each benefit is like a grade school way to compare.

[Memnir]

I just know my Sorc is more fun for me to play - and to me that's all that matters.
This debate boils down to personal preference, more than anything... with pros and cons on either side of the issue. Play what you have fun with, and the rest doesn't matter so much.

[Aspenor]

For what it's worth, the wizard capstone puts them back on par with sorcerers. Nobody drinks INT yugoloth pots due to the fortification decrease being so possibly lethal. Sorcerers can drink the charisma yugo pots with essentially no penalty.

You do know that the wizard past life feat can be purchased by sorcs, right? You just need to have leveled as a wizard before.

As Mem said, it boils down to personal preference. Do you like playing strategically and conserving SP? Wizard is probably best for you. Do you prefer blasting the living **** out of everything you come across? Sorc wins.

[Gol]

I think it's important to note that whichever you like, it gets undoubtedly better if you have BOTH Sorc and Wiz as past lives.

[Ash]

My sig says it all

[ddoer]

You do know that the wizard past life feat can be purchased by sorcs, right? You just need to have leveled as a wizard before.

Just to clarify my point of better Past Life feat is about future proof:

The Wiz past life is significantly better than that of sorc. If you pick Sorc in this life, you’ll have to do Sorc->Wiz->Sorc to get that feat. And if you pick Wiz in the first life, you could do Wiz->Sorc and save 4.3M XP grinding. In another words, if you go for wiz and regret for the decision, and then go back to Sorc in the next life, you still get the premium past life feat that make your sorc much better. (the Spell Penetration +2 could be viewed as getting a free feat, and the +1 DC as +2 Cha)

If you consider spell penetration feats are useful for sorc, (or you want to attempt to solo Running with Devils ;-) ) going for wiz->wiz->sorc is great and it could saves you two feats for the feat starving sorc class.

[dasein18]

I just know my Sorc is more fun for me to play - and to me that's all that matters.
This debate boils down to personal preference, more than anything... with pros and cons on either side of the issue. Play what you have fun with, and the rest doesn't matter so much.

I totally agree.. that is why putting a weight factor on the benefits like spell pool.. nuke ability.. etc would probably be the ones to put this over the top for you. The OP that has a man crush on Wizzies might weight the benefits for Wizzies higher..

In short - you can slice how ever you want... custer is a hero to some... and a war criminal to others...

[Talon_Moonshadow]

You can't really ay one wins, except for your preference.

IMO a Sor "IS" a more powerful caster. And since casting is the bread and butter of the classes.....that would give the advantage to the Sor.

However, I prefer the Wiz.
It is a much more fun class for me to play. One that fits my playstyle best.
I enjoy tactical play, and a Wiz fits that better.

I wish I could combine the benefits of both.

I actually think most Sor players do not use the faster casting to it's upmost ability.
It is a very powerful trait that is underutilised IMO.

[Razorangel]

Well we seem to have a debate on this one.
The Sorc has only two advantages over a wiz.
1. more spell points.
2. more cha for umd, and force of personality.

The Sorc disadvantages are about 3.
1. Set spells. with new mods comeing out and more useful spell list. Having limited selection hurts.
2. No free metamagic feats that wiz get for free with levels.
3. lower int gives lower skill points.

And yes there are more minor ones but thats about it for major.
I play both and with both i save mana for important stuff like haste, and nuking pking or fingering a bad monster when needed.

The wiz 3 advantages over a sorc.
1. versatiity
2. skill points.
3. Free meta magic feats.

The Wiz disadvantages are about 2
1. Less spell points.
2. Lower cha = lower umd(the more skill points help make up somewhat for this)

[quickgrif]

Well we seem to have a debate on this one.
The Sorc has only two advantages over a wiz.
1. more spell points.
2. more cha for umd, and force of personality.

The Sorc disadvantages are about 3.
1. Set spells. with new mods comeing out and more useful spell list. Having limited selection hurts.
2. No free metamagic feats that wiz get for free with levels.
3. lower int gives lower skill points.

And yes there are more minor ones but thats about it for major.
I play both and with both i save mana for important stuff like haste, and nuking pking or fingering a bad monster when needed.

The wiz 3 advantages over a sorc.
1. versatiity
2. skill points.
3. Free meta magic feats.

The Wiz disadvantages are about 2
1. Less spell points.
2. Lower cha = lower umd(the more skill points help make up somewhat for this)

Force of personality and umd are two diffrent advantages and you forgot faster casting rates just for your info.