Looking for some Spell Selection Help

[Nivek555]

Hello I currently have a level 9 Human Sorcerer who primarily groups with a fighter and our couple cleric henchmen, and I had a couple questions regarding spell choices and other things.

First of all this is roughly what I look like...
For my primary stats I have 28 CHA and 20 CON
My Feats: Maximize, Force of Personality, Toughness, Extend, Heighten I had empower but respeced out of it because I only ever seemed to turn it on at boss fights and it seems like Maximize alone is fine for that for now and I don't have the SP to leave it on all the time. I'm planing on taking Spell Pen, Greater Spell Pen at levels 12 and 15 and then probably Empower again at 18.
Lvl 1 Spells: Exped Retreat, Jump, Magic Missile , Shield
Lvl 2 Spells: Blur, Resist Energy, Scorching Ray, Web
Lvl 3 Spells: Displacement, Fireball, Haste
Lvl 4 Spells: Phantasmal Killer, Wall of Fire
Enhancement and gear wise I am Fire/Ice Spec

The first main question I had is how are the spells I've picked for the first 4 levels and are there any key ones that I should switch to? Probably at level 11 I'll grab Stoneskin for the level 4 spell. but I am not too sure what other good level 3 spell to take. Also what are the first must get spells for the next few spell levels? For level 5 ones, I was thinking Cone of Cold at least but don't know what else.

Also I had a couple question regarding certain spells.
First of all what is up with Wall of Fire. As I was looking up info on the class, it seemed that everyone loves it, but in practice it just does not seem that good. At my current level it ticks for about 25-30ish, but most of the time the enemies are dead by no later then the 2nd tick. So why would you use that when a Fireball hits for about 80ish. That means it would have to tick at least 3 times(which is about what 10sec?) just to equal the damage of a single fireball. So I'm just curious if I am missing something here, or is it only useful in harder difficulties where enemies are not going to die off so fast.
Another spell I was wondering about is Acid Fog. We had a high level caster help out on a mission once and he kept casting them out covering the area and it seemed to kill just about everything. Looking at its description though it does not seem that powerful, saying it is 2d6/rd. Would he have had to be Acid Spec to be doing that, or was he maybe casting other spells?

Thanks for any advice you can give on these questions.

[Just_Aaron]

When you get to higher levels with harder mobs, it's cheaper on your SP pool to run a group of enemies through one firewall than casting 5-6 (or more) fireballs. This is, of course, just based on my experience and the way I like to play. I'd rather throw down a firewall and run mobs through it while trying to avoid getting squished than trying throw multiple fireballs while running around trying not to get squished. Try out a few different ways and see what works best for you

[juniorpfactors]

an extended firewall 90% of the time at that level is a waist of spell points, your much better off running maximized empowered f/w, extend isnt needed until much later and only on boss type fights, fireball can be used also, but its all about mana, I just jump back and forth, and use 1 wof. make sure you have a superior fire scepter and superior potency item at all times


jrp

[Diarden1]

Just my opinion, so take it as it lays.

If you are grouping with the same people over and over, you have a rhythm. That is important an any group (much why most pugs are not as efficient as guild groups). I play my sorc in a certain fashion, and that being the case, I can solo most dungeons with ease.

Firewall is god. There are certain spells every sorc should have (jump... come on people, why you dont carry jump or haste is beyond me) and Firewall is one of them. I can understand being acid spec or lightning spec, maybe force spec... but even in those cases, firewall is sustainable damage that a group needs.

That being said. If you do have a fighter, using doorways to your advantage makes life easier as hell. Pop a firewall so the end is facing out through the doorway, and have your tank buddy pull and shield block the door. Instant easy kills. Archers out of reach? throw a firewall on them, they wont move.

Fireballs are fun (and granted, when I was leveling my sorc up, I used a FW + Fireball combo to take down stuff fast, "pre stoneskin"). When you start fighting tougher stuff though, they will start saving, and you will be wasting spell points trying to fireball em down. Firewall stays there, and is sustainable.

You made a comment about empower not being what its chocked up to be. It took me to realize the futility of my ways in passing it off til higher levels and I learned my lesson. Empower + Maximize + Potency + Fire spec = massive damage. At high levels, my firewall hits for around 300-700 non crit, depending on the origin of the mob. Orchard stuff? no problem. Having high hitting firewalls comes with a price, and for that, you must learn how to kite. Not many do this well (standing in place is not the brightest of ideas). It's all a feeling you must develop over time.

After my long rant, I will give you a breakdown of spells a sorc MUST HAVE, some nice to have things, and optionals that are fun.

Spell List:

Must Haves...
Lvl 1
Jump
Nightshield
Lvl2
Resist Energy
Web
Blur (Yes, displacement is better, but in group environments, you dont want to be casting displacement every 1-4 minutes)
Lvl3
Displacement (must have for the sorc itself)
Haste
Lvl4
Stoneskin
Wall of Fire
Evervation (Until energy drain at 18+)
Lvl 5
Prot to Elements
Cloudkill
Cone of Cold
Lvl 6
Acid Fog
Greater Heroism
Disintegrate
Lvl 7
Finger of Death
Lvl 8
Polar Ray
Lvl 9
Wail of the Banshee
Energy Drain

Nice Things to Have:
I love Greater Teleport, as well as Dimension Door. These are spells I will always have, as I hate running from place to place.
Summon Monster IX is great, the Herzou is bad ass.
I find Fire Shield extremely valuble, due to its many uses. I hate clickies that run out, so its a good fix to be able to cast it whenever I know im coming against a fire or cold mob.

There are many more, but I am running low on time. I may update this post in the future for you, but as I stated earlier, these are just my opinions.

Good luck!

[Nivek555]

Thanks for the info so far.

First of all, HOW THE HELL DO YOU GET 500ish DAMAGE FIRE WALLS?? Currently I have Greater Combustion(the 40% damage one) and I have another 30% buff through enhancements. I do have the potions that buff, but rarely feel the need to use them. So just on their own my Fire walls do 25-30. If I maximize 50-60 and if I still had Empower 62-75 with Maximize. How can you can 5-10 times that amount of damage on non crits? I think all I'm missing is another 10% from items and another 10% from enhancements. Throw a potion in the mix and I can maybe see a max of around 150-200.

Another caster question I thought of is in regards to AC. Does everyone just say screw it and not bother with bracers of armor and a protection item? Right now if I cast the shield spell, I think I'm around a 21 AC and it doesn't really seem worth it. Already by level 10 I assume just about everything is going to hit you anyways.

[Diarden1]

First off, stop popping damage pots. They do not stack with items. If you use a combustion item or potency, it will not stack with the pot.

So, Firewall at 2d6 +20 maxxed = 36 damage. Already at my inflated level, my base damage is higher than your maximized. I also stated depending on the origin of the mob. Undead take double damage from firewalls, and if they're vulnerable to fire damage as well, tons of big numbers.

Normal stuff hits for 300, in that range. Its plenty of damage, especially when you learn how to stagger firewalls so they take multiple hits all at once (I can get around 8-10 hits every 3-4 seconds, killing most red named mobs before you can say Shazzam).

Secondly, stop worrying about AC. You will not have AC unless you're warforged and built for it. Displacement, Jump and Haste are your friends as a pure Fire caster. Learn them, use them, and learn how to jump/kite.

Enjoy.

[ddoer]

My Feats: Maximize, Force of Personality, Toughness, Extend, Heighten I had empower but respeced out of it because I only ever seemed to turn it on at boss fights and it seems like Maximize alone is fine for that for now and I don't have the SP to leave it on all the time. I'm planing on taking Spell Pen, Greater Spell Pen at levels 12 and 15 and then probably Empower again at 18.

i got max but not emp too, and think emp is a must only if you build your sorc as a nuker. Your list of feats is not bad.

Lvl 1 Spells: Exped Retreat, Jump, Magic Missile , Shield
Lvl 2 Spells: Blur, Resist Energy, Scorching Ray, Web
Lvl 3 Spells: Displacement, Fireball, Haste
Lvl 4 Spells: Phantasmal Killer, Wall of Fire
Enhancement and gear wise I am Fire/Ice Spec

The first main question I had is how are the spells I've picked for the first 4 levels and are there any key ones that I should switch to? Probably at level 11 I'll grab Stoneskin for the level 4 spell. but I am not too sure what other good level 3 spell to take. Also what are the first must get spells for the next few spell levels? For level 5 ones, I was thinking Cone of Cold at least but don't know what else.

Check Fennario's spell list.

For your current spells:

• Expeditious Retreat is almost completely useless. It gives +15% speed and you could use Striding +20% (or Striding +25% racial restricted)
• Shield - use nightshield instead. Both spells give you protection against magic missles, but nightshield provides resistance bonus to saves rather than AC that you don't need
• Blur - if you have displacement + extend, it's less important to get blur. Given that you like to due with a fighter (with no rog skill, i presume), it's useful for you to get knock.

Notice that spell choice is quite personal. Try to understand the reasons and associated playing style when you are reading other people's spell choice. A spell could be good and useful to most people but not fitting your own playing style.

Also I had a couple question regarding certain spells.
First of all what is up with Wall of Fire. As I was looking up info on the class, it seemed that everyone loves it, but in practice it just does not seem that good. At my current level it ticks for about 25-30ish, but most of the time the enemies are dead by no later then the 2nd tick. So why would you use that when a Fireball hits for about 80ish. That means it would have to tick at least 3 times(which is about what 10sec?) just to equal the damage of a single fireball. So I'm just curious if I am missing something here, or is it only useful in harder difficulties where enemies are not going to die off so fast.

first of all, make sure you equipped with a L3+ superior potency (preferred) or combustion items, and a fire/arcane lore item. For fireball, get a +1 a evocation focus gear from AH.

fireball actually does more burst damage than firewall at your level, and this fact tells you firewall is not necessarily be the best for every scenario. I think you didn't miss anything. firewall lasts for longer duration, so it potentially deal with much damage over time. imagine if a mob cannot be killed in a single fireball, e.g. its HP is 160, using firewall and wait for the mob(s) be burnt could save you mana in compare to using 2 fireball. Not to say, fireball has a saving throw.

for any spell, you could use it more efficiently if you know its saving type and the type of target. e.g. if you shoot a fireball at enemy caster, it's likely they won't make save. but if you do the same against a rog, it may not be the way to use your mana.

firewall could be used together with other spells like web, solid fog/acid fog (which may be bugged and malfunction currently), wave of exhaustion etc. to maximize its usefulness. Another simpler combo is firewall + fireball/coc.

Another spell I was wondering about is Acid Fog. We had a high level caster help out on a mission once and he kept casting them out covering the area and it seemed to kill just about everything. Looking at its description though it does not seem that powerful, saying it is 2d6/rd. Would he have had to be Acid Spec to be doing that, or was he maybe casting other spells?

Thanks for any advice you can give on these questions.

acid fog works like firewall that it deals damage over time. (and it is also suppose to be able to slow mobs down like solid fog, that, afaik, was bugged) and it deals with less damage than firewall in general.

I personally strongly dislike the use of any fog. it potentially cause lag to some people, as well as its obscure our own sight that might create chaos and affect the control of some people. e.g. a cleric may rely on eyesight to know whether a member is nearby, or be cursed, or do mouse selection; melees may need eyesight to know where the mobs are and where is the center of fighting etc.

Go to the compendium and check the damage figures, saving throws, and duration of the mentioned spells.

Spell List:

Must Haves...
Blur (Yes, displacement is better, but in group environments, you dont want to be casting displacement every 1-4 minutes)
Lvl 5
Cloudkill
Cone of Cold
Lvl 6
Acid Fog
Greater Heroism
Lvl 8
Polar Ray
Lvl 9
Wail of the Banshee

i would call these kind of a list a "very-nice-to-have" rather than must-have. you could play your caster very differently than the others and it still could work. some spells are very-nice-to-have in particular situation, e.g. Flesh to Stone in giant tor and Tower of Despair, and some other useful in certain level. e.g. I think banishment is very useful in vale quests but not in the end game.

remarks: i filtered Diarden1's list for those I don't think is must-have. Also see Fennario's list for his picks of must-have, that I fully agree with.

there are certain protective spells you may want: nightshield, resist energy, protection from elements (either L3 or the L7 mass version), fire shield, stoneskin and displacement. You could live without them but your life will be harder. Rage will you and your party more HP that is generally useful. Most of the remain spells are offensive or crowd control that are largely depends on your own playing style. among them, each of flesh-to-stone (against low fort save mobs with Death Ward), disintegrate (against Golem, crystal etc.), otto irresistible dance, energy drain offer some unique values.

btw, imho, blur is quite useless. My sorc strongly dislike to buff/heal/repair other people, but I usually keeping all non-AC melee with extended displacement. (only except when they are not fighting against mobs that does melee damage) I believe this could significantly reduce resource usage of cleric(s).

[Diarden1]

As you state, it is your opinion and your playstyle.

Me personally, I choose to win in dungeons without fail, and do what I have to do to make that happen. Having blur for me is better on SP management than displacement every 4 minutes. Putting an extra 20% miss chance on all melee is important (healers who pure heal usually dont get agro).

I wonder, why do you think disintegrate is not a necessary spell for sorcs?

[Nivek555]

Another question I thought of.... Why does everyone say Nightshield is a Must Take? It doesn't stack with Resist items and only goes up to +3. I know +4 items are fairly easy to get and I've seen +5 on some. I don't know if anything gets higher then that, but I would still think you would want as high as you can get.

[Arctigis]

Another question I thought of.... Why does everyone say Nightshield is a Must Take? It doesn't stack with Resist items and only goes up to +3. I know +4 items are fairly easy to get and I've seen +5 on some. I don't know if anything gets higher then that, but I would still think you would want as high as you can get.

True, but equipment slots are also at a premium. For most +3 is 'good enough'.

[ddoer]

Another question I thought of.... Why does everyone say Nightshield is a Must Take? It doesn't stack with Resist items and only goes up to +3. I know +4 items are fairly easy to get and I've seen +5 on some. I don't know if anything gets higher then that, but I would still think you would want as high as you can get.

mainly for the protection against magic missiles but not for the resistance. the +3 resistance is not bad, however.

[Diarden1]

A lot of mobs higher end will cast magic missile or the like, and if you have agro, it can be massive.

I think in the new area, I was getting hit for 15-30 per missile, 5-6 missiles per cast. Adds up on my sorc, who only has 350hp.

[drachine]

there are more then enough shield wands you can acquire and use off the AH and elsewhere. just because i know they are valuable, i save them when i come across them and now i have a lot. so if i have so many, why do i need to carry Nightshield to deal with Magic Missile, i would just use wands if you have them.

now my 1st level spells are the following

Chill Touch (for doomspheres, undead beholders)
Hypnotism (mass crowd control which works at any level)
Jump (evading being hit mostly)
Ray of Enfeeblement (excellent boss debuff which heightened bypasses SR)

now that i have these 1st level spells and use them all the time, i would never trade any of them for just a buff i could use a wand for.

those are my thoughts.

[ddoer]

why do i need to carry Nightshield to deal with Magic Missile

because a load spell lasts much longer, and doesn't occupy one or two inventory slots, and doesn't occupy extra bank slot for store spare wands, and doesn't cost plats and allow us to sell the L10 Shield wands to melees who desperately want them.

[drachine]

Another question I thought of.... Why does everyone say Nightshield is a Must Take? It doesn't stack with Resist items and only goes up to +3. I know +4 items are fairly easy to get and I've seen +5 on some. I don't know if anything gets higher then that, but I would still think you would want as high as you can get.

because a load spell lasts much longer, and doesn't occupy one or two inventory slots, and doesn't occupy extra bank slot for store spare wands, and doesn't cost plats and allow us to sell the L10 Shield wands to melees who desperately want them.

I already explained why Nightshield is not a MUST take.

But by all means if you must have an 20 minute nightshield buff (lv 20) and feel using a wand once every 10 minutes to do nearly the same thing is too much

OR you can't afford the inventory or extra bank slots with all the additional bank slots we have been given in the game with more promised to be made available

OR you are overly concerned about some desperate fighter who might need the wand you just purchased off the AH for a shield clickie

then i guess for you Nightshield is a MUST take.

if you don't care about any of that like me and are fine with using a wand to achieve the same of affect of having the spell, then no Nightshield is not a MUST take.