List of Bugs and issues with the Barbarian Class

[Shade]

Since the Barbarian class has had so many unfixed bugs over the years I'm going to keep a list of bugs and issues updated here.

Bugs:

1. Potions - can't be drank while raged or madstone raged: Neutralize Poison, Remove Curse, Remove Disease, Remove Fear, Remove Paralysys.
Can't be drank while madstoned raged (but can be while raged): Lesser restore
Bugged and reported since: Module 2 when this poor code was added to the game.
Known Issue: Yes (altho has been for years with no attempts to fix - infact many patchs have only added to the number of potions which can't be used unexplicably)
U15 Status: Still bugged. However a workaround exists now, but only for players in high level guilds: Guild pots are not clickes, use those.
Number of years bugged: Six (Since July 12th, 2006)

2. Frenzy Berserker Raid set steals 1 of your rages if you: Lose connection, Relog, Die, or a number of other scenarios.
Bugged and reported since: Not reported as I've lost all faith in the bug report system.
Known Issue: No
U14 Status: Still bugged. There was a partial fix done to prevent unlimited loss of rages, you can only lose the one now.. But it's still bugged, you should not lose 2 rages upon death (1 current one active, plus another charge).
Number of years bugged: 3.

3. Frenzy Berserker multiplier increase does not work correctly.
It works partially - base damage is multiplied. But burst damage on weapons is not correctly increased.
Bugged and reported since: 2 weeks into Mod 9 beta release
Known Issue: No
U14 Status: Still bugged.
Number of years bugged: 3.

4. Frenzy and Death Frenzy cause annoying flinch and scream animatnions on every single swing.
Video demonstration of bug here.
Bugged and reported since: 2 weeks into Mod 9 beta release
Known Issue: No
U14 Status: Still bugged.
Number of years bugged: 3.

5. Frenzy and Death Frenzy use the same icon as a rage potion
This makes them very hard to distinguish and thus difficult to tell if you are currently frenzied or not, as the visual effect fades quickly, and they all share a similmar duration.
Bugged and reported since: Mod 9 beta release
Known Issue: No
U14 Status: Still bugged.
Number of years bugged: 3.

Non-Barbarian bugs that directly effect the class's commonly used features:

Various related Fury and Dreadnaught Bugs, see the list here.

Issues and Player concerns:

1. Damage boost is not a worthwhile enhancement, and feels like a penalty to have to take it for Frenzy Berserker.
Due to requirement of stopping attack and long delay of activating action boosts - damage boost is generally considered to be a DPS loss to use mid battle due to it's rather poor boost (+5 at rank IV). For a class that can deal over 90 base damage with two handed weapons, a +5 boost is trivial and not worth stopping attack to activate.
Suggestions to improve it:
Return it to it's module 0 value, and apply double the benefit to two handed weapons as other new enhancements.
In module 0, the boost provided +10 damage. For lvl10 this was perhaps too high, but for lvl20 TWF it seems fine. THF should gain double the benefit, so +20 damage.
Alternative:
Provide a percentage increase to base damage, so it scales fairly across all levels and provideds a benefit to even the most maxxed out characters. Numbers similar to the fighter haste boost enhancement would seem appropriate (+15% to +30% damage boost)
U11 Status: Fixed. And used pretty close to my alternate suggestion =)


2. Rage animation time varies greatly depending on race and weapon style - and if interrupted will not activate, but will start a cooldown and waste a use.
This is really not acceptable as the PnP version doesn't have some way to interupt it, and it doesn't seem intended. Also there is no reason for the ability to have a 1 minuit cooldown - being you may not use it again while raged anyways, no cooldown is nessasary at all, its just an arbitrary artificial penalty we get for no reason.
Things that can interupt rage, wasting a charge and starting an unnessasry cooldown:
Pressing the movement keys after starting the animation.. Very common one that makes no sense.
Getting tripped... Melee, cometfall or otherwise.
Grabbing a ledge
Getting CC'd in any way really, hold, stone, etc.
Also how likely you are to get interupted depends on your race and weapon style.. Doesn't make much sense that a sturdy dwarf is more likely to be interupted by a trip then any other race.

Examples of greatly varying rage animation times: (Race and weapon style effect it)
1handed, no shield - Dwarf is ultra slow, 2+ seconds. (weird style but run into this issue often as I use a dwarven axe haste clicky - and clickies cannot be used if inside weapon sets, so I swap from THF to 1hand no shield to use, then rage)
2handed Dwarf is rather slow - ~1 second
S&B Dwarf is rather slow ~1 second
TWF Dwarf is very fast 0.5 seconds
THF WF very fast 0.5 seconds
Suggestion:
Quick fix: Remove the cooldown
Best fix: Remove the cooldown + Tweak all the animaitons to be fast, and un-interuptable. Ultra fast ala paladin lay on hands would be nice.
U14 Status: Still bugged.
Number of years bugged: Over 6: Since DDO Closed Beta.

Please contribute any bugs or issues I might of missed.

[Yargore]

1. Damage boost is not a worthwhile enhancement, and feels like a penalty to have to take it for Frenzy Berserker.
Due to requirement of stopping attack and long delay of activating action boosts - damage boost is generally considered to be a DPS loss to use mid battle due to it's rather poor boost (+5 at rank IV). For a class that can deal over 90 base damage with two handed weapons, a +5 boost is trivial and not worth stopping attack to activate.
Suggestions to improve it:
Return it to it's module 0 value, and apply double the benefit to two handed weapons as other new enhancements.
In module 0, the boost provided +10 damage. For lvl10 this was perhaps too high, but for lvl20 TWF it seems fine. THF should gain double the benefit, so +20 damage.
Alternative:
Provide a percentage increase to base damage, so it scales fairly across all levels and provideds a benefit to even the most maxxed out characters. Numbers similar to the fighter haste boost enhancement would seem appropriate (+15% to +30% damage boost)

just give them haste boost so barbs get the DPS they deserve.

[maddmatt70]

just give them haste boost so barbs get the DPS they deserve.

I would do damage boost by %dps increase per hit instead of absolute numbers. For instance when you activate a damage boost you do 10% additional damage.

[LawstCawz]

Move and rage causes the rage cooldown without activating a rage.

[Shade]

Patch 2 fixed zero Barbarian bugs... Not a surprise.

[akiraproject24]

Why isn't there any dev response here? Why take the time to say...slow haste movement speed but not fix bugs that have been around as early as the beginning of the game?

[SimVerg]

If you want to see what the Supreme Cleave animation is supposed to be, you can block and then hit the button. It will fire, not take 10 hp and I'm fairly certain, not actually hit anything.

edit: Maybe we should start a rumor that doing this allows you to Supreme Cleave without paying the cost in an attempt to get it fixed or replaced with something useful...

Ya guys, I'm totally able to hit like 6 mobs at once by hitting Supreme Cleave while blocking and it doesn't cost the 10 hp either!

[Monkey_Archer]

just give them haste boost so barbs get the DPS they deserve.

Barbarians, without using their useless damage boost, are already among the top dps builds in the game... giving them haste boost would not only detract from the advantage of making a burst dps fighter, but would push them to 10-20% higher dps then any other build... setting a new dps bracket that current content would need to be balanced for.

I agree with the original proposal... make damage boost a +4,6,8,10 boost and double (or 1.5x) the benefit for THF.

[Asketes]

Well put Shade.


Some I were aware of; some that I was not, but makes sense

thanks again Axe

[TrenchcoatJesus]

Barbarians, without using their useless damage boost, are already among the top dps builds in the game... giving them haste boost would not only detract from the advantage of making a burst dps fighter, but would push them to 10-20% higher dps then any other build... setting a new dps bracket that current content would need to be balanced for.

I agree with the original proposal... make damage boost a +4,6,8,10 boost and double (or 1.5x) the benefit for THF.

I'm not sure if the boost needs to be tweaked or not, since the Kensai (a comparable pure-damage type PrE) pretty much has to waste 10 AP on Attack Boost which provides even less benefit to damage than the Barbarian counterpart. Notably, these boost uses are used for Power Surge so you can argue that the APs are not wholly wasted, but currently there's no limitation on Frenzy or Death Frenzy for a similar comparison.

In short, there's no reason damage boost should be raised for one class and not receive the same treatment for all the others that get it. If they feel it needs to be raised for level 20 I've no argument there, but it should be across all classes with access to the boost. ((And I highly doubt, or highly dread that they would recode damage boost as a percentile increase. This would only further highlight the difference between base damage and special damage, as in the case of a pure barbarian vs. a pure dex-based finesse rogue.))

Lastly, although the bugs posted are indeed valid and good to note, the class balance concerns seem completely unwarranted. I don't think anyone's complained recently that their barbarian cannot do enough damage compared to other classes or builds. By the time they add haste boost to the barbarian expect other melees to get (AP specc'd) +12 stacking strength buffs with everything else, or we'll see a whole lot of barbarians for our melees.

-TcJ

[Shade]

tcj:

Your arguement's are not making any sense.

I'm not asking for barbarian damage boost to be boosted specificly and only for barbarians. Several classes get it, and it would ofcourse work the same for every class. I don't see how my suggestion favors any class over another.

I'm asking for it to be FIXED. You know.. Made so it's actaully has a purpose to using it mid combat. Currently most people agree that using it mid combat results in LOWER overall damage.. And i'ts called boost, not damage nerf. All we, the players that have it ask is that it does not do that.

Saying another random classses enhancement sucks is not a valid reason to not fix damage boost. That's just the most backwards logic I've ever read. If you feel fighter attack boost sucks, go on the fighter forums and suggest a fix, using it as arguement to NOT improve another one is just plain nonsense.

And no one here is asking for Barbarians to be made stronger. This is purely a thread to denote the many many bugs Barbarians suffer. Just because a class is good, is again not a good arguement for refusing to fix bugs.

[Strakeln]

Why isn't there any dev response here? Why take the time to say...slow haste movement speed but not fix bugs that have been around as early as the beginning of the game?

If you ever figure out the answer to this question, be sure to let us know.

Tinker tinker tinker instead of fix.

[Strakeln]

If you want to see what the Supreme Cleave animation is supposed to be, you can block and then hit the button. It will fire, not take 10 hp and I'm fairly certain, not actually hit anything.

edit: Maybe we should start a rumor that doing this allows you to Supreme Cleave without paying the cost in an attempt to get it fixed or replaced with something useful...

Ya guys, I'm totally able to hit like 6 mobs at once by hitting Supreme Cleave while blocking and it doesn't cost the 10 hp either!

lol

fixed tomorrow.

[Strakeln]

I'm asking for it to be FIXED. You know.. Made so it's actaully has a purpose to using it mid combat. Currently most people agree that using it mid combat results in LOWER overall damage.. And i'ts called boost, not damage nerf. All we, the players that have it ask is that it does not do that.

I think the best possible fix for boosts would be to remove the pause/interruption caused by activation. They have the ability to do so... monk elemental attacks are a good example of being able to seamlessly integrate on-click boosts without interrupting combat.

Well, maybe "seamlessly" isn't the right word, but it's a hell of a lot better than current boost activation, and something I could live with.

[Shade]

I think the best possible fix for boosts would be to remove the pause/interruption caused by activation. They have the ability to do so... monk elemental attacks are a good example of being able to seamlessly integrate on-click boosts without interrupting combat.

Well, maybe "seamlessly" isn't the right word, but it's a hell of a lot better than current boost activation, and something I could live with.

You'd think so..
As that's exactly how it function in module 0 (in addition to being much higher damage and easily afordable to a level10)

Module 0 dmg boost.. +10 damage, can be activated mid combat with no interuption in attacks.

Yet they broke it.. Broke it purposley to fix another exploit (oldschool spam attack) which is no longer even possible either way due to the heavy changes in combat.

[Strakeln]

Yet they broke it.. Broke it purposley to fix another exploit (oldschool spam attack) which is no longer even possible either way due to the heavy changes in combat.

Maybe that fact would make it easier to undo?

I'm all for bigger boosts (more power!), but I'd prefer to first see the activation fixed. That would also be a change (revert) that would help many classes.

Good list of the current barb annoyances.

[TrenchcoatJesus]

tcj:

Your arguement's are not making any sense.

I'm not asking for barbarian damage boost to be boosted specificly and only for barbarians. Several classes get it, and it would ofcourse work the same for every class. I don't see how my suggestion favors any class over another.

I'm asking for it to be FIXED. You know.. Made so it's actaully has a purpose to using it mid combat. Currently most people agree that using it mid combat results in LOWER overall damage.. And i'ts called boost, not damage nerf. All we, the players that have it ask is that it does not do that.

Saying another random classses enhancement sucks is not a valid reason to not fix damage boost. That's just the most backwards logic I've ever read. If you feel fighter attack boost sucks, go on the fighter forums and suggest a fix, using it as arguement to NOT improve another one is just plain nonsense.

And no one here is asking for Barbarians to be made stronger. This is purely a thread to denote the many many bugs Barbarians suffer. Just because a class is good, is again not a good arguement for refusing to fix bugs.

My reply was based on this part of your original post:

Damage boost is not a worthwhile enhancement, and feels like a penalty to have to take it for Frenzy Berserker.

To which my reply is unchanged. FB and Kensai are both damage specialty PrEs. Both have a 10 AP "sink" in terms of requirements that yield little benefit of their own. If you can't see the logical comparison of that, there's not much point to me constructing a logical argument in the first place.

Is that an argument that says Damage Boost should not be adjusted? No. But if it is adjusted, it's far from being a Barbarian-specific bug (which your post was otherwise a list of), and will require more attention in balancing. Ranged combat is another facet of the game which requires a lot more attention to balance, and honestly I hope that sees light before buffing damage dealers which already have no problem dealing damage.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it more. Damage Boost is useless, yes I agree. Does it really need to be a priority for fixing though?

I'm not saying it shouldn't be fixed, I'm merely suggesting it (hopefully) is lower priority since it in no way inhibits a Barbarian from doing what it should at a competitive level with other builds designed to do the same thing.

-TcJ

[Shade]

If you can't see the logical comparison of that, there's not much point to me constructing a logical argument in the first place.

No I cannot. There is zero logic in trying to assign priorities for a developement team you have absolutely nothing to do with. You really have no say in that. Neither I do. I just lay out the bug and player concerns here as i've seen the players have mentioned in the past.

For comparison if you must.. I have in the history of the forums NEVER seen a single post of a fighter complaining about action boosts not being good. Infact I have often seen the oposite of them saying it is a very good enhancement for low levels, and for that I very much agree. Does it lose it's use when you get to use power surges instead of it? Yea. IMO, That's entirely intended and fair.

If I could instead use my damage boosts to instead gain +8 strength for 1 minuit, this player concern would not exist. I cannot.

Are you suggesting that powersurge instead be removed and attack boost made useful? I didn't read that anywhere. If you were, your arguement may have some logic, since you aren't. It lacks any. Your only citing some random line of mine in a futile effort, with no particular purpose.

All your doing is complaining for the sake of complaining because you couldn't care less about this particularly clases issues. So go find something better to do with yoru time then try be arrogant enoug hto think you can decide the developers priorities. Untiil you actually become one, you won't and you can't. If you really feel so strongly that you can, you probably have another 1000 threads in the suggestion forum to reply to saying how you don't feel its a high priority, so go waste your time.

[TrenchcoatJesus]

I just lay out the bug and player concerns here as i've seen the players have mentioned in the past.

A damage dealing PrE that requires APs be spent in a non-beneficial enhancement as a requirement...

Which seems like a penalty just to qualify for the PrE?

THIS IS MADNESS!

Or, heck, I dunno, maybe that's just how PrE's are designed and have been for the duration of this game.

Since you're a little dense I'll shorten it for you: "That's no bug."

Take a look at Assassin I requirements, Arcane Archer requirements... well there's really too many to list without first becoming as angry as you seem to be. The majority of these have one or more non-damage dealing enhancements as requirements. There's a reason for that.

-TcJ

P.S. I'm not sure I understood what the point of insulting me for suggesting where the Devs spend their time was. You and I both desire the game to improve with time, though our opinions on "improve" may differ. Neither of us has any authoritative say in how this is achieved. If you're this angry about my opinion, I have bad news about the rest of the outside world.

[Shade]

That's no bug.

It's not listed as a bug.