Attorneys

[Zippo]

hehe I think im gonna rename the thread to "Your best lawyer joke!"

[Yajerman01]

Why do attorneys where collard shirts?

to keep the foreskin from coming up over their heads

[Quanefel]

Well im in the process as we speak of writing up a nice long laundry list letter to the Illinois Bar Association in regards to there unconscionable handling of my case.

It was an Illinois lawyer? I am from that state and something one gets use to here, almost everyone is corrupt and unethical. Hope you can get something worked out though, good luck.

[CSFurious]

do you work for free?

i suggest that if you had paid your lawyer that they would have worked harder and done a better job representing you

that has nothing to do with whether or not your lawyer is good or bad, i.e., you pay for what you get

why do you think O.J. got off & everyday others go to jail?

there is no such thing as a free lunch

[ShaeNightbird]

I'm sorry you had a less than positive experience with this person, but it's really unfair to tar the entire profession with the same brush.

I've never had any problems with attorneys. I've had more trouble with doctors than lawyers actually. Lawyers come in handy when doctors screw up.

[Zippo]

do you work for free?

i suggest that if you had paid your lawyer that they would have worked harder and done a better job representing you

that has nothing to do with whether or not your lawyer is good or bad, i.e., you pay for what you get

why do you think O.J. got off & everyday others go to jail?

there is no such thing as a free lunch

First off they knew I was financially tight when they took the case and when they rack up 10 grand in charges and the only thing that was done was a paternaty test paid for by the STATE theres something wrong. Second I was paying them off but because I couldn't give them the 8 grand they wanted right now they dumped me instead of working with me on it. All they could think of was NOW NOW NOW and not it will be. It was unconscionable conduct when they decided to appear in court and not notify me of the appearances until after they walked out of the courtroom, it was unconscionable conduct when they did not inform me of paperwork that was to be filled out and filed (im not an attorney nor a law graduate I dont know these things)., and it was unconscionable conduct when they took my 2500 retainer check; tell me that should cover it; strike me with another 8 grand in unauthorized charges; and then 5 days before the court appearance inform me that they are dropping me as a client after leaving me out to dry. So before you make assumptions of me not paying get your facts straight because quite frankly I didnt come here to get targeted, that was taken care of quite nicely when I was having to defend myself in court against the judge, states attorney, her attorney for visitation, and my own attorney all at the same time today.

[CSFurious]

if all lawyers were like this, they would be out of business pretty soon just like anyone else

the law is a business & it does cost money for good representation

apparently, it also costs money for bad representation

i actually am a lawyer

my suggestion is that you do not pay these lawyers & if you are sued, i believe that most judges will not let them collect such fees if you contest the payment

you can also report them to the local ethical board to contest the fees, e.g., your local jurisdiction may have what is called fee arbitration where an arbitration panel will decide what fees are owed for work performed

i think the main thing to learn from this for the future is to try harder and get a good lawyer & then do not marry anymore crazy women & and have any children with them, you will save a lot of money

First off they knew I was financially tight when they took the case and when they rack up 10 grand in charges and the only thing that was done was a paternaty test paid for by the STATE theres something wrong. Second I was paying them off but because I couldn't give them the 8 grand they wanted right now they dumped me instead of working with me on it. All they could think of was NOW NOW NOW and not it will be. It was unconscionable conduct when they decided to appear in court and not notify me of the appearances until after they walked out of the courtroom, it was unconscionable conduct when they did not inform me of paperwork that was to be filled out and filed (im not an attorney nor a law graduate I dont know these things)., and it was unconscionable conduct when they took my 2500 retainer check; tell me that should cover it; strike me with another 8 grand in unauthorized charges; and then 5 days before the court appearance inform me that they are dropping me as a client after leaving me out to dry. So before you make assumptions of me not paying get your facts straight because quite frankly I didnt come here to get targeted, that was taken care of quite nicely when I was having to defend myself in court against the judge, states attorney, her attorney for visitation, and my own attorney all at the same time today.

[Zippo]

i think the main thing to learn from this for the future is to try harder and get a good lawyer & then do not marry anymore crazy women & and have any children with them, you will save a lot of money

Well this part ill give you for sure.

And for the record I know these comments dont apply to ALL attorneys but it does seem like a rather large number of them have and follow these kind of ethics. As for the ethical board I am writing up a letter that will be sent out today to the ARDC in regards to their handling of my case. With that I will afford them the opportunity to decide what kind of action that needs to be taken against the law offices. And if you are an attorney then you know that any complaint with the ARDC no matter how frivalous or warranted is considered serious and a black mark on their record.


Also on a side note you said that it costs money for good representation and normally I would say your right, but for what they charged and what they actually did there is a serious imbalance. And remember this is a Chicago law firm and I got another good reminder of Chicago politics and why I hate the city so much.

[Hafeal]

Also on a side note you said that it costs money for good representation and normally I would say your right, but for what they charged and what they actually did there is a serious imbalance. And remember this is a Chicago law firm and I got another good reminder of Chicago politics and why I hate the city so much.

Well if the firm had the initials J and L in it - I am not surprised, as this is not the first time I have heard this.

Sounds to me like you listened to the radio rather than having called at least 3 attorneys to find one which would work best with you.

[unionyes]

Well if the firm had the initials J and L in it - I am not surprised, as this is not the first time I have heard this.

Sounds to me like you listened to the radio rather than having called at least 3 attorneys to find one which would work best with you.

Never pick a lawyer out of the phone book. Never EVER pick a lawyer off of an ad on late night TV.

This axiom is right up there in legal circles with 'The court appointed psychiatrist is not your friend'.

[GovtMule]

99% of the lawyers give the rest a bad name!

[Noctus]

Why is it that attorneys are the most unconscionable and apprehensible things known to man.

Because of your Common Law System, combined with the fact how US lawyers get paid.

Originally Posted by UnderwearModel
That is what I want to know.

I say we sue all attorneys for their egregious court cases that raise my rates in every thing I do and consume.

I need car insurance. My insurance company says "Sorry, California has a lot of bad drivers that do not have insurance and you need to pay for them and their court cases."

I need to buy medicine. "Sorry, but the dumb person that took 80000000 pills because the bottle did not tell her she could not do that has sued the company and we have to raise prices."

I go to McDonalds for coffee. "Sorry, we brew coffee with hot water and some dumb woman in New Mexico or Arizona, puts the HOT coffee mug between her legs. And she spills it."

I go to the playground to play with my kids, nothing is there. "Sorry we had to take the playground equipment down because that dumb lazy woman over there cannot watch her children that fell off and hurt themselves."

"Sorry got to raise rates to protect the dumbies from themselves and to pay their lawyers."

Such crazy, rediculous thing just dont happen in Germany.
There are no live-action theater performances in the court room to woo the audience.
The state´s attorney gathers the facts neutrally, the judge judges neutrally, according to the law books. And your lawyer helps you presenting things in your favor, even searching for cases in which the latitude of judgment was more favorably for their client, if there is some latitude of judgment to speak off in the current case.




There once was a case, several years ago, where a woman choked on a pretzel or soem likewise bakery good, cant recall precisely, and had to have the Heimlich maneuver applied, wanted to sue the producing company, as seen so often in american TV shows. For some several hundred thousand DM.

The state´s attorney could hold himself together and had to laugh when she had her lawyer present her "case". It even made it to the fron page of the Bild-Zeitung (the highest selling newspaper in Germany, mainly aimed for the lower educated market) as a "crazy story" to have a good laugh at.




P.S.
In Germany lawyers are not held in disdain. Guess why.....


P.P.S.
There are many german companys who dont export to the US market, because the effort to "idiot-with-malicious-intent"-proof their products in not worth the effort by far.
And yes, as someone had mentioned before, the extreme rulings of the US legal system make those that do export there raise the prices of their products to build up an internal reserve fund, in case they get sued for 3 batzillion US$ because someone used their microwave product to dry her dog or some occurence of this kind.

I can only speak as a german student of business administration close to my Diplom [equivalent to a masters degree] graduation, and only for german businesses in the US, but raised prices because of possible legal actions are a fact.
And to make an educated guess, american businesses also include these things in their prices, just not as an extra point in calculation costs, so it doesnt get caught by the eye immediatly if you read their pricing reasons. Most propably it will be included through raising the minimum return needed before producing something is worthwile, compared to as if the company would be operation under the german legal system.

[unionyes]

Because of your Common Law System, combined with the fact how US lawyers get paid.







Such crazy, rediculous thing just dont happen in Germany.
There are no live-action theater performances in the court room to woo the audience.
The state´s attorney gathers the facts neutrally, the judge judges neutrally, according to the law books. And your lawyer helps you presenting things in your favor, even searching for cases in which the latitude of judgment was more favorably for their client, if there is some latitude of judgment to speak off in the current case.




There once was a case, several years ago, where a woman choked on a pretzel or soem likewise bakery good, cant recall precisely, and had to have the Heimlich maneuver applied, wanted to sue the producing company, as seen so often in american TV shows. For some several hundred thousand DM.

The state´s attorney could hold himself together and had to laugh when she had her lawyer present her "case". It even made it to the fron page of the Bild-Zeitung (the highest selling newspaper in Germany, mainly aimed for the lower educated market) as a "crazy story" to have a good laugh at.




P.S.
In Germany lawyers are not held in disdain. Guess why.....

In Germany, I believe, as in Canada, we have more governmental regulation on what goods and services hit the marketplace, as well as higher standards for things like safety BEFORE things hit the marketplace.

In the US, where the standards are lower, the remedy for being 'damaged' by an unsafe product is to sue the maker. This of course blows up into lawsuits over hot coffee. And the corporations demand things like 'tort reform' and keep going on and on about the hot coffee.

What they don't tell you about is the ladder that was made with a cheaper grade of steel to save a few bucks, and didn't perform as represented causing some contractor to fall three stories and break both his legs and pelvis, rendering him unable to work. Or the insulation company that kept using asbestos even though they knew it caused horrible cancers because they had a bunch of it still lying around that they had paid for and didn't want to just dispose of. Or the truck brake manufacturer who figured they could save four bucks a ton on a cheaper grade of rivet that led to cataclysmic brake failure and loss of life. Or the 'me too' medication that hits the market without appropriate testing and it just happens that it causes horrible side effects of death, but you know that pharmaceutical company was trying to beat it's rival into the market.

The increased cost to your 'stuff' isn't all because of lawyers suing over hot coffee. It is also because corporations put products into the marketplace when they aren't safe, and then get sued when they either don't do what they were supposed to do, or injure or kill someone.

And punitive damages are just that. Punitive. If the WeSaySo corporation has 15 Billion dollars, and they knowingly sold Farmer Dan a grain auger with a faulty safety guard and Farmer Dan loses his arm, it really won't make the WeSaySo corporation change anything if they have to pay Farmer Dan 20K to refit his truck with a right handed turn signal, etc. So judges and juries award punitive damages, to make the business aspect of selling lethal or dangerous products unviable. Otherwise, you just get the WeSaySo corp figuring in the cost of settling lawsuits vs. the cost of upgrading the safety aspects, and the **** they sell is just as lethal as before.

For every person that complains about lawyers suing companies all the time about stuff they make that doesn't work or hurts someone, there is someone out there who has been injured or had a family member killed by some garbage product that someone sold to make a buck. Unfortunately, it isn't the same person.

[frugal_gourmet]

The famous McDonald's lawsuit, first of all, was legitimate. That particular McDonald's franchise had its coffee cranked to ridiculous levels. After they scalded an old woman, causing serious burns, they were asked by the woman's lawyer to please turn down the machines so that they would not harm anyone else. They refused. They were taken to court and lost. Legitimately. That punitive lawsuit increased their safety. It was not a frivilous lawsuit.

Second, there are plenty of regulations on safety in the United States. Those regulations need to be enforced. By the legal system. Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

Third, the legal system in the United States is not like our court room dramas that you see on television. Please don't be fooled. A woman choking on a pretzel would not get a windfall. Not unless the company serving her that pretzel was negligent in some serious way.

[unionyes]

The famous McDonald's lawsuit, first of all, was legitimate. That particular McDonald's franchise had its coffee cranked to ridiculous levels. After they scalded an old woman, causing serious burns, they were asked by the woman's lawyer to please turn down the machines so that they would not harm anyone else. They refused. They were taken to court and lost. Legitimately. That punitive lawsuit increased their safety. It was not a frivilous lawsuit.

Second, there are plenty of regulations on safety in the United States. Those regulations need to be enforced. By the legal system. Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

Third, the legal system in the United States is not like our court room dramas that you see on television. Please don't be fooled. A woman choking on a pretzel would not get a windfall. Not unless the company serving her that pretzel was negligent in some serious way.

/sarcasm on

But Frugal, how is the WeSaySo corporation supposed to get laws passed stopping people from filing lawsuits against them for unsafe behavior or products if you are going to go and bring the facts into the discussion? It sounds to me like you want them to be held accountable for negligently burning that old lady.

Next thing you know, corporations will have to pay through the nose for performing legitimate business practices such as dumping toxic chemicals into a small town's drinking water causing a cancer epidemic.

It is really hard for a multinational corporation with billions of dollars to make more money if people are going to go running to a lawyer every time they or a family member gets killed or injured by a defective product.

[DelScorcho]

First off they knew I was financially tight when they took the case and when they rack up 10 grand in charges and the only thing that was done was a paternaty test paid for by the STATE theres something wrong. Second I was paying them off but because I couldn't give them the 8 grand they wanted right now they dumped me instead of working with me on it. All they could think of was NOW NOW NOW and not it will be. It was unconscionable conduct when they decided to appear in court and not notify me of the appearances until after they walked out of the courtroom, it was unconscionable conduct when they did not inform me of paperwork that was to be filled out and filed (im not an attorney nor a law graduate I dont know these things)., and it was unconscionable conduct when they took my 2500 retainer check; tell me that should cover it; strike me with another 8 grand in unauthorized charges; and then 5 days before the court appearance inform me that they are dropping me as a client after leaving me out to dry. So before you make assumptions of me not paying get your facts straight because quite frankly I didnt come here to get targeted, that was taken care of quite nicely when I was having to defend myself in court against the judge, states attorney, her attorney for visitation, and my own attorney all at the same time today.

Respectfully, read the retainer agreement you signed when you hired the attorney. It provides for how you will be billed for the proceeding and under what circumstances funds may be taken from the $2,500 retainer. The attorney may have know you were financial tight; however, you ultimately signed the retainer agreement, and there is no real obligation for the attorney to make alternative arrangements for the payment of legal fees different from what is set forth in the retainer agreement.

Generally speaking, an attorney will forward curtesy copies of court orders to a client who does not appear for a scheduled date. Future dates are set forth on these orders. However, it is principally your obligation to attend the scheduled court dates. If you are unaware of a court date, you may contact the Circuit Court Clerk's Office in the county in which your proceeding is pending.

You indicated that you were almost taken into custody on the case. In an Illinois family court proceeding, incarceration only occurs for contempt of court. As a general rule, this would be for indirect civil contempt for willful violation of a court order to pay support or maintenance, although it could also be direct criminal contempt for disruptive courtroom behavior. In either event, you would be incarcerated for your own actions or inactions, not the actions of your attorney. Without knowing the specifics of the scheduled court appearance beyond what you have previously posted, I'd speculate your attorney's withdrawl may have saved you from incarceration today. Under Illinois law, present motions are stayed for 28 days if an attorney withdraws from a case. This is for the litigant to obtain new legal counsel. So if he withdraws on a date scheduled for a contempt proceeding, you get a 28 day period of respite.

Several previous posts indicated the attorney registration and disciplinary committee (ARDC) as the licensing board for Illinois Attorneys. You can review the process for making a claim at IARDC.ORG.

[branmakmuffin]

I want to be able to sue that dumb woman who spilled coffee.

For what?

See, the thing is, most people brew coffee at home to about 140 F, then pour it into a cold ceramic mug, which gets hot, meaning the coffee is losing heat to the mug and then to the surrounding air. McDonald's was brewing its coffee to 180 F, then putting it into an insulating foam cup. The jury decided that McDonald's was partly to blame because of those facts, as I recall. They also found that the woman herself was partly to blame (which reduced her award). And don't forget, she suffered (again, as I recall) third-degree burns on the insides of her thighs. Furthermore, I believe the award was reduced even further on appeal.

Like most people, you are ridiculing the trial result which was played up in the media. Not quite so black and white once all those pesky facts clutter up the situation.

I want to sue the woman in Chicago that sued because she could not and would not watch her kids, because she is lazy.

For what?

Before anyone comments, I know you're being sarcastic.

Your lawyer should be sued. I would take them to small claims court, provided you have excellent paperwork on them.

People sue lawyers for legal malpractice all the time. People register complaints with their state bar against lawyers all the time. There are lousy lawyers, just as there are lousy doctors, lousy plumbers and lousy computer game designers. When lawyers mess up, however, it can really mess you up

[Noctus]

In Germany, I believe, as in Canada, we have more governmental regulation on what goods and services hit the marketplace, as well as higher standards for things like safety BEFORE things hit the marketplace.

In the US, where the standards are lower, the remedy for being 'damaged' by an unsafe product is to sue the maker. This of course blows up into lawsuits over hot coffee. And the corporations demand things like 'tort reform' and keep going on and on about the hot coffee.

Yeah, didnt think about that.

In germany, before you are allowed to sell a product, you need to go through several agencys who examine, analyse and tear you thing apart. If and how safe it ism and to see where the breaking point is. they are very throurogh and unforgiving.
Some are state-mandatory, some are semi-mandatory. All are independant. Especially TÜV for machines and industrial constructions, Stiftung Warentest for consumer products.

And building real estate gets really bureaucratical "upper environmental office", the "lower environmental office" and the "building office" all have to approve, where, how and what you build in which style.
If you want to repair something bigger on any older house (as in german old, so 200+ years) the state´s "historical monument office" also has to approve.

The state is controlling hard for product efficiency and consumer safety.


And then combine that with the fact that many german businesses are run by engineering graduates, not by business graduates. This has a major influence on corporate spirit.
For example a product recall is a much, much bigger shame for the management than, lets say, having a big operational profit deficit (operational net loss?, = loosing money ) in the 3rd consecutive year.

They are fast to cry bloody murder if you want to safe some money by making their carefully enginered solution a bit less wonderfull machine and more good at, lets say, cost/performance ratio.

And im not talking about cheap china-style break away pieces. But most often on using more standardiced pieces, so to get mass production advantages, instead of tweak engineering each piece for its little job independly, in each new machine, again.
10% better performance, compared to the standarised piece. Thats what they look at. But that that also means +150% production cost of that part in the machine is not really a concern.
Objections arecountered with "your no engineer, you cant really appreciate it. Dont interfere in my job, i dont interfere in your job." "Yeah, that may be more expensive, but it is also better. 10% better. Look what i tweaked out of this ball-bearing! Just sell the machine for a bit more money."

And the guy who has the final say in evaluation the product: Most often he´s an ... engineer.


Such companies make wonderfull products, till the day they go bankrupt. Nearly total disregard for the money-making side of a business. "Shareholder Value" what? Speak german, man..... But i should stop here, or ill get into an off-topic rant.

[unionyes]

Yeah, didnt think about that.

In germany, before you are allowed to sell a product, you need to go through several agencys who examine, analyse and tear you thing apart. If and how safe it ism and to see where the breaking point is. they are very throurogh and unforgiving.
Some are state-mandatory, some are semi-mandatory. All are independant. Especially TÜV for machines and industrial constructions, Stiftung Warentest for consumer products.

And building real estate gets really bureaucratical "upper environmental office", the "lower environmental office" and the "building office" all have to approve, where, how and what you build in which style.
If you want to repair something bigger on any older house (as in german old, so 200+ years) the state´s "historical monument office" also has to approve.

The state is controlling hard for product efficiency and consumer safety.


And then combine that with the fact that many german businesses are run by engineering graduates, not by business graduates. This has a major influence on corporate spirit.
For example a product recall is a much, much bigger shame for the management than, lets say, having a big operational profit deficit (operational net loss?, = loosing money ) in the 3rd consecutive year.

They are fast to cry bloody murder if you want to safe some money by making their carefully enginered solution a bit less wonderfull machine and more good at, lets say, cost/performance ratio.

And im not talking about cheap china-style break away pieces. But most often on using more standardiced pieces, so to get mass production advantages, instead of tweak engineering each piece for its little job independly, in each new machine, again.
10% better performance, compared to the standarised piece. Thats what they look at. But that that also means +150% production cost of that part in the machine is not really a concern.
Objections arecountered with "your no engineer, you cant really appreciate it. Dont interfere in my job, i dont interfere in your job." "Yeah, that may be more expensive, but it is also better. 10% better. Look what i tweaked out of this ball-bearing! Just sell the machine for a bit more money."

And the guy who has the final say in evaluation the product: Most often he´s an ... engineer.


Such companies make wonderfull products, till the day they go bankrupt. Nearly total disregard for the money-making side of a business. "Shareholder Value" what? Speak german, man..... But i should stop here, or ill get into an off-topic rant.

In the USA, and to a lesser extent in Canada, they call that 'unwarranted governmental interference in the free market'. By 'they', I mean the corporations.

Two choices, really, in order to ensure that the end user doesn't get something that will kill him.

Strict governmental regulation prior to the release of a product into the market, or having to actually pay for the damage that you cause by releasing something dangerous into the market.

Either pay for safety by prevention, in the form of higher taxes to pay for those regulatory bodies and enforcements, or pay for the lack of safety with legal judgements against you for your defective products.

[branmakmuffin]

Either pay for safety by prevention, in the form of higher taxes to pay for those regulatory bodies and enforcements, or pay for the lack of safety with legal judgements against you for your defective products.

The problem is that corporations want it both ways: no regulation and immunity to lawsuits.