The Sorcerer's Handbook: A Guide to Building and Playing Sorcerers

[Aspenor]

I really think that you lessen the value of this thread by not discussing enough choices and their relative merits/downsides at each level. I admit that I've played a wizard only, but some of your choices seem really questionable:

-Resist Energy is basically just as effective off of a wand, and Scorching Ray is much better than Niac's since it doesn't allow for a save (let alone a save for 0), and improves dramatically 3 levels after you take it. Oh, and it doesn't eat up SP/time by getting Heigtened.
-Solid Fog +Firewall is better than PK in most situations. And the toughest situations for most casters are against mobs of enemies, where individual-target spells are too inefficient.
-Acid Fog is better than Hold Monster in the majority of situations and combos with your other spells, like Web and Firewall
-Dancing Ball is very effective and is a strong contender for the Waves slot

You also don't do much separation of build types in selection of spells and feats. A charmer would probably want Suggestion some time early in the game. A CC'er would probably want Glitterdust as well.

Stoneskin is also basically just as good off of a wand, while Fire Shield is a fairly useful spell to have.

Thanks for the feedback. I have not yet gotten around to breaking down different types of sorcs, like enchanters, evokers, instant-kills, etc.

I can agree that conjurations are, in the end-game, extremely useful. However, remember that the spells are taken in a way that they will be useful at the level taken, not necessarily for the end-game spells list.

I'm doing this in my free time. I have to balance work, housework, a girlfriend, and a PnP group for which I'm both a player, and writing my own campaign with all WotC sources available to my players.

All you guys should feel free to do a write-up of any topic you'd like to cover. You can either PM me the text, or you can write it up in a separate post and I'd love to link to it. I'm not here to say nobody else knows what they're talking about. I just want a thread where new sorcerers can find all the info they need.

I am more than happy to give credit to people that contribute to the thread. Or, if you can find a thread in the sorcerer forums that should probably get a link on this thread, PM me the link and it will happen.

[Mithran]

I'm sorry to see the continued disrespect for Drow, here, as well as the corresponding lauding of warforged specifically to the detriment of Drow. In my opinion, it depends on play style more than anything else.

If you are inclined to do a lot of looking at mobs hitting you, then sure, play a warforged and periodically Repair yourself instead of running the mobs back to the tanks.

Eight of my ten characters are either Elven or Drow, and for my Drow casters, I love having the highest possible primary stats (Intelligence for Wizards and Charisma for Sorceresses). Spell Resistance is also a very nice benefit to playing a Drow.

[Aspenor]

I'm sorry to see the continued disrespect for Drow, here, as well as the corresponding lauding of warforged specifically to the detriment of Drow. In my opinion, it depends on play style more than anything else.

If you are inclined to do a lot of looking at mobs hitting you, then sure, play a warforged and periodically Repair yourself instead of running the mobs back to the tanks.

Eight of my ten characters are either Elven or Drow, and for my Drow casters, I love having the highest possible primary stats (Intelligence for Wizards and Charisma for Sorceresses). Spell Resistance is also a very nice benefit to playing a Drow.

Once you get past level 10, drow spell resistance is marginally useless.

I prefer not needing tanks, as well, so running monsters back to the tanks doesn't exactly work when there aren't any around.

[Moonblood]

thanks...

[sephiroth1084]

Thanks for the feedback. I have not yet gotten around to breaking down different types of sorcs, like enchanters, evokers, instant-kills, etc.

I can agree that conjurations are, in the end-game, extremely useful. However, remember that the spells are taken in a way that they will be useful at the level taken, not necessarily for the end-game spells list.

I'm doing this in my free time. I have to balance work, housework, a girlfriend, and a PnP group for which I'm both a player, and writing my own campaign with all WotC sources available to my players.

All you guys should feel free to do a write-up of any topic you'd like to cover. You can either PM me the text, or you can write it up in a separate post and I'd love to link to it. I'm not here to say nobody else knows what they're talking about. I just want a thread where new sorcerers can find all the info they need.

I am more than happy to give credit to people that contribute to the thread. Or, if you can find a thread in the sorcerer forums that should probably get a link on this thread, PM me the link and it will happen.

Actually, I find Solid Fog and Acid Fog to be more useful at the levels they become available than at endgame. It combos very well with Firewall and is good on its own if you have a lot of melees. It also works against almost everything in the game, and is especially useful in some quests (Gwylan's for example). While it doesn't disable monsters the way Web does, it neuters any melee attackers completely, and has a substantial effect even on ranged attackers and casters. Also, it combos well with Web: if they make the save vs. Web, they will still be trapped in the Fog long enough to have to make another save.

Acid Fog can replace Solid Fog I suppose, though I carry both on my Wizard. Acid Fog is an even better combo in most cases with Firewall and Web since it adds damage as well as performing most of the same tasks. If I go to shrine somewhere that I may have enemies coming to bother me, I throw an Acid Fog down with either a firewall or a couple of Webs in it and enjoy knowing that I'll be safe for a bit.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I built a Wiz first. (more about that later) Then I built a Sorc.

I went a different route than most...straight CC from lvl 2 on up.
My Con and HP are low. I do occasionaly feel squishy. But seldom from monsters.
Because with good CC nothng can hurt you.

This is something I think many Sorcs forget.
I always see Sorcs(and Wizs) getting beat up do to the agro they cause. Nukers want to Nuke...they can't resist the temptation to unleash all that damage power on a whole mob at once.
But IMO and from my experiance, a Sorc can spam CC spells so fast as to nueter an army in seconds. When done right(and a cooperating party) you take almost zero damage in most fights. People really need to consider this IMO.

Now, in the OP's build he does include the best CC spells in his build.
His build is very good actually. And most of what he says is very true.

But his bias against Drow bothers me.....for the reason that if you use CC well, you don't need a lot of HP. And at end game you want every DC on your spells you can get IMO.

And his bias against Wizards.
Skills.....I am a lover of Stealth skills. All of my future chars will have high stealth skills if possible. And with Stealth comes Enlarge spell feat.
My Wiz can sneak anywhere in the Vale......walk right up to monsters and tie their shoelaces together and not be noticed.....or stand on a hill out of sight and take them out without causing agro.
Also I can adapt to any changes the Dev's make very quickly with my spell list.
Versitility should not be ignored IMO.

Now I do agree that Sorcs are more powerful than Wizs. But a Wiz is not weak by any means... and versitility should not be underrated IMO.

I also do not think Dex should be underrated either. Half damage from all things that have a Ref save is not a minor thing IMO. Twice your HP in traps, flame strikes, fireballs, and DQ blades is not a minor thing.

[Borror0]

Actually, I find Solid Fog and Acid Fog to be more useful at the levels they become available than at endgame.

Why would you need anything other than Fireball, Cone of Cold, Scorching Ray, Haste and Firewall before reaching end game?

[muffinlad]

Why would you need anything other than Fireball, Cone of Cold, Scorching Ray, Haste and Firewall before reaching end game?

I like Flesh to Stone, because it gives me a never ending supply of Garden Gnomes.

muffingnomer

[Osharan_Tregarth]

Why would you need anything other than Fireball, Cone of Cold, Scorching Ray, Haste and Firewall before reaching end game?

Well, I can't speak for him.. But it's because I'm too lazy to hop around.


Fog spell.. firewall in the middle...

Sit back and stare at the mobs while they die.

[bobbryan2]

I'm sorry to see the continued disrespect for Drow, here, as well as the corresponding lauding of warforged specifically to the detriment of Drow. In my opinion, it depends on play style more than anything else.

If you are inclined to do a lot of looking at mobs hitting you, then sure, play a warforged and periodically Repair yourself instead of running the mobs back to the tanks.

Eight of my ten characters are either Elven or Drow, and for my Drow casters, I love having the highest possible primary stats (Intelligence for Wizards and Charisma for Sorceresses). Spell Resistance is also a very nice benefit to playing a Drow.

Because you lose a lot of HP going drow. It used to be worth it when creatures didn't hit all that hard... but less so now.

Combined with losing about 50 hp or so at a minimum... you almost need other party members to accomplish anything. Why play one of the best solo classes if you're going to build in such a way as to need other party members?

That's not to say drow sorcs can't solo, I know a great many who can. I also know even more drow who sacrficed more than the required 50 hp and die in a hit or so.

Survivability is a caster's most powerful tool. Believe it or not, I usually consider CON to be as primary a stat to casters as CHA... so Drow basically become a wash.

[BRINKS]

I didn't see Dismissal on the spell list...low SP cost, really high save (43 will? memory). It's like a low cost version of FOD and banishment for all extraplanar creatures which includes 60% of the vale. At end game with maxed DC and spell pen it's a great low cost way to clear devils, orthons, some gnolls, cats, elementals, mephits... a great helper when soloing or for irritating fighters in the party that just want to hit SOMETHING before the run is over lol.

EDIT: I should remind readers that at vale QUEST level and above, enervation is key for those high CR baddies that won't drop just because you give them the finger. (not to be used on red or purple names)

[Jopin]

Why would you need anything other than Fireball, Cone of Cold, Scorching Ray, Haste and Firewall before reaching end game?

Um, 'cause your friends in your tiny guild really, really like the fog spells?

Oh, and btw, is "BBEG" a common abbreviation? 'Big Bad End Guy'?, or something sexier?

[Borror0]

Well, I can't speak for him.. But it's because I'm too lazy to hop around.

Meh. Displacement, Stoneskin. /nuke

No need to hop around.

Oh, and btw, is "BBEG" a common abbreviation? 'Big Bad End Guy'?, or something sexier?

Big Bad Evil Guy/Big Bad End Guy

[Raithe]

Warforged are only better than drow stat-wise if you don't care at all about any of the other stats besides con and casting. Even if you accept that int/wisdom is useless on a Sorc (force of personality) and dex/charisma is useless on a wizard (insightful reflexes), dex is still useful on a sorc (reflex save) and wisdom is still useful on a wizard (will save).

Strength is useful on both because of encumberance, enfeebling spells and stat drains.

And, while con is definitely useful for raising hit points and increasing concentration, having a mediocre fort save is not really better for gameplay than having a low one. There is currently no defense for stunning blow, flesh to stone, or disintegrate (other than perhaps a limited charge scarab), so casters are not going to put themselves in those situations even if they have a 60% chance of saving.

As an example, take Offering of Blood. The first avatar (scorpion) has a DC 30 stunning/bewildering blow on normal. No caster is going to want to go toe to toe with that. But many a caster will be unable to avoid flame strikes and chain lightning cast throughout the rest of the quest. Fort save is doing very little (especially with deathblock on), while the reflex saves are earning their keep.

[bobbryan2]

Warforged are only better than drow stat-wise if you don't care at all about any of the other stats besides con and casting. Even if you accept that int/wisdom is useless on a Sorc (force of personality) and dex/charisma is useless on a wizard (insightful reflexes), dex is still useful on a sorc (reflex save) and wisdom is still useful on a wizard (will save).

Strength is useful on both because of encumberance, enfeebling spells and stat drains.

And, while con is definitely useful for raising hit points and increasing concentration, having a mediocre fort save is not really better for gameplay than having a low one. There is currently no defense for stunning blow, flesh to stone, or disintegrate (other than perhaps a limited charge scarab), so casters are not going to put themselves in those situations even if they have a 60% chance of saving.

As an example, take Offering of Blood. The first avatar (scorpion) has a DC 30 stunning/bewildering blow on normal. No caster is going to want to go toe to toe with that. But many a caster will be unable to avoid flame strikes and chain lightning cast throughout the rest of the quest. Fort save is doing very little (especially with deathblock on), while the reflex saves are earning their keep.

Mediocre fort save? My human sits at about a 31 fort save with greater hero. Granted, she runs with a 30 con... so....

But by your thinking, is a mediocre reflex save better than a low one? Especially when it's not giving you HP in return?

I started with an 8 strength, I never have any problems as I run with a 17 at any given time.

And I took force of personality for a killer will save which makes wisdom completely extraneous.

I'm not saying these stats aren't useful, but there are MUCH better ways to spend your stats and get around deficiencies in the other 4.

[Aspenor]

I didn't see Dismissal on the spell list...low SP cost, really high save (43 will? memory). It's like a low cost version of FOD and banishment for all extraplanar creatures which includes 60% of the vale. At end game with maxed DC and spell pen it's a great low cost way to clear devils, orthons, some gnolls, cats, elementals, mephits... a great helper when soloing or for irritating fighters in the party that just want to hit SOMETHING before the run is over lol.

EDIT: I should remind readers that at vale QUEST level and above, enervation is key for those high CR baddies that won't drop just because you give them the finger. (not to be used on red or purple names)

Dismissal isn't actually a high save spell on many targets. When a target must make a save, the target's Hit Dice are subtracted from the DC of the spell.

This means that for high HD creatures, such as elementals, it will barely ever work when you really need it to. You'd be better off targetting fort save or die.

Elementals have essentially double the HD of other outsiders of the same CR. Devils and demons will be more susceptible to this spell, but are also more likely to have a higher will save.

I will agree that banishment owns the Vale, and the Vale quests on NORMAL. But I don't build characters to only be effective on normal.

[Aspenor]

Well, I can't speak for him.. But it's because I'm too lazy to hop around.


Fog spell.. firewall in the middle...

Sit back and stare at the mobs while they die.

Or, as an alternative....

Firewall. Fireball. Everything dies.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I didn't see Dismissal on the spell list...low SP cost, really high save (43 will? memory). It's like a low cost version of FOD and banishment for all extraplanar creatures which includes 60% of the vale. At end game with maxed DC and spell pen it's a great low cost way to clear devils, orthons, some gnolls, cats, elementals, mephits... a great helper when soloing or for irritating fighters in the party that just want to hit SOMETHING before the run is over lol.

EDIT: I should remind readers that at vale QUEST level and above, enervation is key for those high CR baddies that won't drop just because you give them the finger. (not to be used on red or purple names)

Ahhhh. My little Babushka's all grown up and posting advice on the Sorcerer's forums.

[Mithran]

I'm partial to my Drow Sorceress's 36 Charisma.

I swapped out Toughness for Heighten. She's not as beefy as a Warforged, but she's a lot more popular with the Clerics. I didn't make her to solo, but to play as part of a team. Despite my preference for self-buffing melee characters (Paladin and Ranger > Fighter and Barbarian, imo), I roll my characters to fill specific team roles and not to solo.

[Damionic]

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.96
DDO Character Planner Home Page
Nuker 
Level 16 Chaotic Neutral Drow Female
(16 Sorcerer) 
Hit Points: 52
Spell Points: 1360 
BAB: 8\8\13
Fortitude: 3
Reflex: 5
Will: 9
Level 1 (Sorcerer)
Spell (1): Chill Touch
Spell (1): Niac's Cold Ray

Level 2 (Sorcerer)
Spell (1): Hypnotism

Level 3 (Sorcerer)
Spell (1): Mage Armor

Level 4 (Sorcerer)
Spell (2): Scorching Ray

Level 5 (Sorcerer)
Spell (2): See Invisibility

Level 6 (Sorcerer)
Spell (3): Haste

Level 7 (Sorcerer)
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (3): Sleet Storm

Level 8 (Sorcerer)
Spell (4): Wall of Fire

Level 9 (Sorcerer)
Spell (2): Resist Energy
Spell (3): Ray of Exhaustion
Spell (4): Ice Storm

Level 10 (Sorcerer)
Spell (5): Cone of Cold

Level 11 (Sorcerer)
Spell (3): Fireball
Spell (4): Enervation
Spell (5): Hold Monster

Level 12 (Sorcerer)
Spell (6): Otiluke's Freezing Sphere

Level 13 (Sorcerer)
Spell (4): Fire Shield
Spell (5): Mind Fog
Spell (6): Greater Heroism

Level 14 (Sorcerer)
Spell (7): Finger of Death

Level 15 (Sorcerer)
Spell (5): Feeblemind
Spell (6): Flesh to Stone
Spell (7): Delayed Blast Fireball

Level 16 (Sorcerer)
Spell (8): Polar Ray