The Monster. 12 Fighter / 6 ranger / 2 monk

[seldarin]

You can change armors faster, have less of a combat delay when changing weapons, and can draw and fire throwing weapons more rapidly.

That is the definition of the quickdraw feat from the compendium. It may differ from wiki, as a few things do, because turbines definitions are a little dated, but unless it does, im guessing it must work a little differently on EU servers cos i dont see it mention anything there about effecting the timing on activated abilities?

Please point out to me if i am wrong in that

[Riorik]

...

I've read a lot of this thread and I am both amused and disgusted.
You do realize that you'll never be able to convince each other, right?

What I think is, some of the arguments are mostly about semantics. I think it's simply impossible for a SINGLE build to be the ultimate DPS in all situations irrespective of identical conditions (equipment, stats) regardless of what the averages say. I think arguments about it are fruitless and should simply be discontinued. It even appears that at several points a few players have tried to do that (discontinue) yet they keep getting drawn back in by the same arguments.

Can't you just give it a rest and agree that both or all of the builds in question have a lot of DPS...they're close...and that we're talking about a few percentage points...and call it a day? What do you really gain if one build has more DPS than another? Bragging rights are more about ego than anything else. Perhaps somebody should be on the couch with Sigmund?

[Aaxeyu]

and FE CONVSTRUCT ANY things that gets me out of part one a fraction of a second sooner is a blessing, part 4 and 5 are fun part1 is yay i get to beat on a bizzion inanimate objects for fun.

I agree, I will take swap undead for constructs when I am completely done with sos :P

[Ollathir]

This reminds me of the video where the guy moons the donkey and then doesnt run away fast enough

Nah. I saw the one with the bull though.

[MrCow]

85% healer friendly (with item and enhancements)

Considering this thread has gone into a flurry of nitpicks I think I'll add mine against this statement.

You are not 85% divine healable. You are 78% divine healable with Healer's Friend I and Levik's Bracers on. Healing is multiplicative from the base healing and not additive.

(0.5 base healing + 0.15 base healing from Healer's Friend I) * 0.2 healing amp from Leviks
0.65 base healing * 0.2 healing amp from Leviks
0.78 healing (from divine sources)

[Aaxeyu]

Considering this thread has gone into a flurry of nitpicks I think I'll add mine against this statement.

You are not 85% divine healable. You are 78% divine healable with Healer's Friend I and Levik's Bracers on. Healing is multiplicative from the base healing and not additive.

(0.5 base healing + 0.15 base healing from Healer's Friend I) * 0.2 healing amp from Leviks
0.65 base healing * 0.2 healing amp from Leviks
0.78 healing (from divine sources)

Alright, thanks for the note, will fix it.

PS: It's from DT, not levikks

[Aaxeyu]

I've read a lot of this thread and I am both amused and disgusted.
You do realize that you'll never be able to convince each other, right?

What I think is, some of the arguments are mostly about semantics. I think it's simply impossible for a SINGLE build to be the ultimate DPS in all situations irrespective of identical conditions (equipment, stats) regardless of what the averages say. I think arguments about it are fruitless and should simply be discontinued. It even appears that at several points a few players have tried to do that (discontinue) yet they keep getting drawn back in by the same arguments.

Can't you just give it a rest and agree that both or all of the builds in question have a lot of DPS...they're close...and that we're talking about a few percentage points...and call it a day? What do you really gain if one build has more DPS than another? Bragging rights are more about ego than anything else. Perhaps somebody should be on the couch with Sigmund?

I am convinced that there are lot of stubborn people here who won't ever be convinced that their ranger will be outdps with good margins, but I think Borror0 can change his mind about the exploiter and barb having higher dps than The Monster. He probably just didn't understand my calculations.

There might not be a build that will have higher dps in every situation, but that is not the point when calculating highest average dps now is it?

A ranger will never deal more dps than The Monster, unless you count the average for like 20-40 min. The Monster have way higher dps than The Exploiter build, it is not just a few percentage points..

You can change armors faster, have less of a combat delay when changing weapons, and can draw and fire throwing weapons more rapidly.

That is the definition of the quickdraw feat from the compendium. It may differ from wiki, as a few things do, because turbines definitions are a little dated, but unless it does, im guessing it must work a little differently on EU servers cos i dont see it mention anything there about effecting the timing on activated abilities?

Please point out to me if i am wrong in that

You are not wrong here, the description doesn't say everything that quickdraw does. Go test it if you don't belive me.

[MrCow]

PS: It's from DT, not levikks

Ah, my mistake. I tend to assume that as the Levik's Bracers tend to be the most common source of +20% healing amplification.

I am convinced that there are lot of stubborn people here

Aye, we have a lot of those here. Sometimes the persistence pays off, sometimes it leads to long drawn posts. Regardless of the tone, the intent at its base is usually to uncover the truth of some matter.

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

Considering this thread has gone into a flurry of nitpicks I think I'll add mine against this statement.

You are not 85% divine healable. You are 78% divine healable with Healer's Friend I and Levik's Bracers on. Healing is multiplicative from the base healing and not additive.

(0.5 base healing + 0.15 base healing from Healer's Friend I) * 0.2 healing amp from Leviks
0.65 base healing * 0.2 healing amp from Leviks
0.78 healing (from divine sources)

Not wanting to sidetrack such a riveting thread, and I'm no expert on WF, but I re-read the description of Healer's Friend:

Benefit from healing spells is increased by 15%

so wouldn't this make the calculation:

0.5 (Base) * 1.15 (Healer's friend) * 1.2 (Levik's) = 0.69...?

Garth

[Aaxeyu]

Not wanting to sidetrack such a riveting thread, and I'm no expert on WF, but I re-read the description of Healer's Friend:



so wouldn't this make the calculation:

0.5 (Base) * 1.15 (Healer's friend) * 1.2 (Levik's) = 0.69...?

Garth

Actually, I think the enhancement increases the Base Healing, which means that it's like Cow said,
base = 50% normal
base = 65% with enahcnement

Ending = 0,65*1,2 = 0,78

Or am I wrong?

[MrCow]

so wouldn't this make the calculation:

0.5 (Base) * 1.15 (Healer's friend) * 1.2 (Levik's) = 0.69...?

Thankfully Healer's Friend adds to the base healing and is not a multiplier. I took quite a few heals from the tavern keeper with various healing modifiers (Warforged Healer's Friend I-III, Monk Healing I-III, Healing Amp 10%, Healing Amp 20%) and found that mathematically is supports Healer's Friend as base healing. My biggest regret from that round of healing and enhancement swapping is I didn't keep the hard numbers.

It is just like a few other things DDO folks complain about in the descriptions. Some of them don't fully explain the underlying mechanics or where how they are truly used.

[Aaxeyu]

It is just like a few other things DDO folks complain about in the descriptions. Some of them don't fully explain the underlying mechanics or where how they are truly used.

Aye, the descriptions are not very accurate sometimes. Just take the extra percentage incoming healing, quickdraw and haste as examples.

So a tip for the readers; You are always better off if you test it yourself, than reading the descriptions and assuming that it is 100% accurate.

[Aaxeyu]

Haha, no. That many fighter levels aren't helping your DPS. Many things would beat its DPS, including Ran/Pal.

I am still waiting for those calcs.
Maybe I wasn't wrong calling you lazy after all..

Maxed song is more than +8. You don't include Tharne's Goggles (or Litany, lol). Those factors favor the character with faster swing speed, which with Haste Boost off is not the Fighter character.

You seem to have ignored my answer to this post earlier, so I am still curious, is maxed songs really more than +8?
I don't understand how Litany is going to increase your dps (In the previous comparison to litany and bloodstone I forgot the +1 damage from litany), unless you use the Marilith Chain and lose evasion and loads of AC.
From the litany you get 1 str and 1 damage, so at best 2 damage in main hand and 1,5 damage in offhand.
So in 20 swings you get 40 damage to your main hand and 30 damage to your offhand.

Bloodstone gives 72 damage to your main hand, and 72 damage to your offhand.

And about tharnes:
The Monster: 1511 swings / 5 min. 2741 swings / 10 min.
The Ranger18/monk1/rogue1: 1432 swings / 5 min. 2785 swings / 10 min.

I have not taken account for the lost swings due to delay before you can attack after haste boost (0.5 sec for The Monster and 1,5 sec for the ranger) or lost extra offhand attacks forthe ranger due to movement.
So in reality The Monster get more swings even in a 10 minutes comparison.
So if I would use SA in every calc The Monster would gain most from it (except when comparing to halflings, but then I will use SA because they gain very much from it, and it would be completely unfair to leave it out).

The reason I don't include SA is because it is not exactly reliable unless you have radience weapons and/or minus threat.
All rogue splashed builds gets 6,5 damage from SA, but if you are going to include that in the calcs you should include vod goggles aswell, as there is simply no way to get a partial SA.
Now you have a highdps toon with mineral II weapons getting full SA, that would assume there is an intimi tank around right?
Then you would have to include the vod goggles on The Monster aswell, as it is not a fair comparison otherwise.

[Wizzly_Bear]

max songs at level 20 will be at least +9

6ran/14pal = +10% tempest attack speed + +10% zeal attack speed + smites + divine sacrifices + divine favor + rams might + divine might + etc

[Aaxeyu]

max songs at level 20 will be at least +9

6ran/14pal = +10% tempest attack speed + +10% zeal attack speed + smites + divine sacrifices + divine favor + rams might + divine might + etc

Ah, that's right, forgot to scale it to level 20^^ thanks you. More dps for The Monster

[Borror0]

Maybe I wasn't wrong calling you lazy after all..

Lazy isn't really the word I would use to refer to AD.

[Borror0]

You seem to have ignored my answer to this post earlier, so I am still curious, is maxed songs really more than +8?

Of course. At least +9, if not +10 since Inspire Damage IV should be available at level 17.

I don't understand how Litany is going to increase your dps (In the previous comparison to litany and bloodstone I forgot the +1 damage from litany), unless you use the Marilith Chain and lose evasion and loads of AC.

Maximum DPS claim, did you?

[...] except when comparing to halflings, but then I will use SA because they gain very much from it, and it would be completely unfair to leave it out.

This brings up an important point: most comparisons in this thread were not against WF nor halflings.

The reason I don't include SA is because it is not exactly reliable unless you have radience weapons and/or minus threat.

Totally untrue. Maybe you should play a character with a rogue splash.

[Wizzly_Bear]

Of course. At least +9, if not +10 since Inspire Damage IV should be available at level 17.

pretty sure i read a dev say that there will be no new enhancements except capstones and prestige, so that would leave the cap at 9. that is, until warchanter 2 and 3 come out.

[Tanka]

Totally untrue. Maybe you should play a character with a rogue splash.

Hi! I have a rogue splash and a rogue with a splash.

SA is sustainable. It takes quest knowledge. Am I doing great DPS against Sorjek? Yes. It's called Acid Greataxe of Greater Undead Bane, Rage, Madstone Rage, and Haste Boost.

I consistently and reliably draw aggro from Barbarians because of my minuscule SA bonus (1d6+11) in Shroud. I'd do it more often if I went TWF instead of THF.

[Borror0]

pretty sure i read a dev say that there will be no new enhancements except capstones and prestige

I hope not. Continuation of existing enhancements should require little work and offer great gains.

Plus, I don't remember reading that nor is it on the In development page of the wiki.