The Monster. 12 Fighter / 6 ranger / 2 monk

[Borror0]

No other boss fight where you need superior dps, = ofcourse SA is unreliable.

LOL, did you miss the part where I said unless the 18/1/1 only had 30% of his sneak attacks, he was out-DPSing you?
(That was excluding Tharne's Goggles, which would put him further ahead.)

Rushing and decent dps and the fighter action boosts and PS are substainable.

Errr, no.

Or are you implying that a FB has superior dps over shorter durations?

Hell yeah I am.

[Aaxeyu]

LOL, did you miss the part where I said unless the 18/1/1 only had 30% of his sneak attacks, he was out-DPSing you?
(That was excluding Tharne's Goggles, which would put him further ahead.)

If he gets 30% of his sneak attacks he might be out-dpsing me, if I don't use haste boost or PS.
If you are going to include SA in your calcs, include tharnes goggles aswell, and do it for both builds. If The exploiter gains the SA from his rogue levels, he will gain the SA from tharnes too (if he have them equiped), and it is not really fair to count in tharnes on one build but not the other, unless we compare with builds who are using Radience II and/or have lots of -% threat.

You also leave out that if the ranger moves he will lose his advantage of the extra offhand attack on the last swing.

Errr, no.

LOL, you just agreed that there are no fights of more than 5 min except on elite. But even if we consider elite quests, the ammount is very small. So please tell me, how are the boosts/PS not sustainable?

Hell yeah I am.

You really are inconsistent. You just said that Boost and PS wasn't sustainable. If a fight lasts shorter than 4 minutes The Monster will be able too keep himself Boosted ~67% of the time (unless the fight only lasts for 20 sec ofc). That will increase his dps quite alot from the calculations I did for average damage over 5 min (where he can keep himself boosted 53% of the time).

The barb will also gain dps from it, but not as much. As his boosts are not as good as The Monsters.

So you are wrong, the barb will not out-dps The Monster over shorter durations.

[Borror0]

it is not really fair to count in tharnes on one build but not the other

This is not what I said. Tharne's favor the ranger with STWF. You know that.

So please tell me, how are the boosts/PS not sustainable?

I think you didn't really understand what I meant.

Go look up Mayce's comment to your DPS calculations, on the DDO EU forums. Might give you a clue of what I can possibly mean.

[Aaxeyu]

This is not what I said. Tharne's favor the ranger with STWF. You know that.

I think you didn't really understand what I meant.

Go look up Mayce's comment to your DPS calculations, on the DDO EU forums. Might give you a clue of what I can possibly mean.

Tharnes actually favors The Monster due to the higher (average) attackspeed, but that is counting boosts ofc.
And to me it is quite obvious that the boosts should be counted with to get a fair dps estimation. The calc might not say the actual dps you get in game as it is a "Punshing bag" calculation.

The actual dps is lower, due to movement, activation time of the boosts, missing the mobs due to high AC or lag etc etc etc.

Somehow you seem to think that the punshig bag calculation favors The Monster. This is however completely untrue. I made another post about this and you summed it up to a few dots and it was forgotten. If that is how you want to debate and argue I really think you should find another thread, if not you are most welcome to stay, as we can all learn from this.

My calculation assumes that 8 haste boosts and 5 powersurges are activated instantly with no delay, while infact the haste boosts take ~0.5 sec to active and the powersurges are as fast as the rogues showtime (arguments for this can be found in the other thread if you are interested) I've been told that they are "instant" but i guess they work just as boosts. so 6,5 sec of activation times are not accounted for in The Monsters dps calc, but also remember that you can activate the boost just before you reach the mob. Mobs can also die before the haste boosts have ended, but you learn to time them quite well after a while, and to gather enough mobs so you have something to hit during the whole boost etc. So in the end not that much boosted time is lost to that.
The Monster have higher tohit, that will make him lose less dps in certain situations

The Exploiter calculations assumes that 5 haste boosts are activated with no delay, and as he have no quickdraw it takes 1,5 sec until he can attack again. So he loses 7,5 seconds from the boosts, here goes the same points as for The Monster ofcourse.
For The Exploiter we will have to take in account for movements, as there are few fights where you actually just stand still and attack constantly. Movement resets the attackchain so The Exploiter loses his extra offhand attack on the last swing. This is not included in the calculation either.

Lag etc affects both builds equal so there are no need to include that in a dps estimation.

To sum it up:
The Monster loses 6,5 sec from using boosts, and loses some of his boosted time due to moving and dying mobs. He have higher tohit so he will lose less dps in certain situations

The Exploiter loses 7,5 sec from boosts, and he also loses some of his boosted time due to moving and dying mobs.
Every time you move when attacking you will reset the attackchain and miss out on your advantage of an extra offhand attack on your last swing. In the DDO I play you move ALOT, positioning is key.

So unless I am completely off here the punchbag calculations favors The Exploiter build quite alot more than The Monster.

[Wizzly_Bear]

aax, or whoever you are, you have been proven wrong several times on your original premise that this build is the "best" dps. its not even a real build yet. also, i cant find anyone to confirm your .5 sec haste boost activation. just drop it already.

[Aaxeyu]

aax, or whoever you are, you have been proven wrong several times on your original premise that this build is the "best" dps. its not even a real build yet. also, i cant find anyone to confirm your .5 sec haste boost activation. just drop it already.

Only 2 times actually, but I dont see your point?

You can confirm the 0,5 sec yourself by getting quickdraw on a fighter and use hasteboost in mid attack chain.

Quickdraw makes it quicker to swap weapons by shortening the time when you can't attack after you have swapped weapons, and it does the same for action boosts, intimidate etc.
I really thought this was commong knowledge, is it is on the eu servers atleast..

[Ollathir]

Ah. Still goin strong over here I see

[Wizzly_Bear]

Only 2 times actually, but I dont see your point?

You can confirm the 0,5 sec yourself by getting quickdraw on a fighter and use hasteboost in mid attack chain.

Quickdraw makes it quicker to swap weapons by shortening the time when you can't attack after you have swapped weapons, and it does the same for action boosts, intimidate etc.
I really thought this was commong knowledge, is it is on the eu servers atleast..

my testing says it doesnt work, and i cant find anyone who says it does work other than you, who says you are posting under someone else's name so you have no credibility, besides the fact even had you some, you would have less from all the stuff in this thread.

course, maybe it only works in the eu servers and we're both right

[Hobgoblin]

if you like on the eu so much go back there

[Kiranselie]

I ran 1 character for over a year and a half, and in that 18month period, i ran w/ 2 different boosts, and I had quickdraw on that character. At no point in time did quickdraw ever affect the time it took for my boosts to activate. Hell even in the feat description it says nothing about shortening the activation time on boosts. From personal experience I say you are full of it, plain and simple. You've come on our boards w/ your I'm better than you attitude, its been pointed out time and time again where your wrong, and yet you wont just shut up and go back to your own **** boards.



Let me sum up what most of us are thinking right now


G T F O

[Garth_of_Sarlona]

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[Tanka]

*snip*

Join me, and I will complete your training.

[Korvek]

Somehow I always remember this movie when people call something "The Monster." (No, it's not a rickroll)

I certainly hope this build has a better /dance capability.

[Desteria]

I rarely if ever play quests on elite, it's basically only raid that I play on elite. And on elite, harry / sally for example hit's so high ac, that no ac build can take it (more or less), I've "dps-tanked" vod with 406 hp, (not maxed, con, shroud item, no madstone / rage, etc.) And I easily took aggro off barbs and soaked him.

I know i said they HIT my AC monk, nto they hit him all tne time on elite they still miss a bunch I'm guessign 50% ish swaying a bit either direction dependign if i have any out side buffs, like a lv15 bard! FULLY raid buffed my tempest monk who still does VERY nice dps due to constatnly very fast attack speed can break 90AC he will get hit still but not much you would on the other had get hit 100% of the time, I cna be scroll healed by a rouge sorc pally or bard, you will need a fully dedicated cleric still while DPS tanking him and that cleric will be chain healing you and mostlikly having to dip in to pot usage, and pot is expesive!!! P.S. my AC monk canhti 400 hp as well soooo even if the ac compleatly failed i'd still be able to 'dps-tank' him!....

[Ollathir]

Aaxeyu, I honestly thought you were comin around when I read this on the other Post:

I updated the OP as it turned out that some builds actually had higher dps.

Until I read what you updated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha-xe746E6k

Watch this, and learn about D.P.S <-----Please don't misinform our readers. You are a guest, you play EU, there are alot of new or uninformed players that may mistakenly take this seriously. Don't mislead them.
One of the highest dps character, stuff rangers and frenzied barbs, welcome the MONSTER.Correct, it is high DPS. Clarify Melee. To state it your way presumes too much.


EDIT: Here is the build in details
EDIT2: cleaned it up abit.
EDIT3: As it turns out, The Monster will be outdamaged by a 12 fighter / 6 ranger / 2 barb (The beast), and actually by a 12 fighter / 6 ranger / 2 rogue(still unnamed, anyone got a good name for it? :P) aswell as even if you only get very few sneak attacks you will end up doing slightly more dps than the 12 fighter / 6 ranger / 2 monk build (The Monster).


The yet unnamed roguesplah version have high UMD potential, so it can use scrolls to heal itself, but scrollhealing in combat is not as effective as just getting thrown a heal from your fellow cleric/caster (there are a few rare exceptions ofc, but I'm trying to generalize the benefits of the builds). The Monster will have 5-6 more AC, 3 higher fort and will save and 2 higher ref save.

The Beast and The unnamed would have to give up 2 feats, and from the threads it seems like those feats would be imp. crit: pierce and lightning reflexes (hence the lower reflex). So they will both be worse at killing trash with wops/banishing/smite etc. And they are bound to use their Mineral II weapons.

Now I will let you draw your own conclusions from the analysis, as mine will only be flamed. You can martyr yourself if it makes you feel any better.
If you want to add something to the builds just let me know.

So far these are the only builds who will have higher dps than The Monster, and if it turns out there are more I will add them here.

According to you and your calculations of DPS the game is not fluid; situations and conditions don't change as frequently as your arguments do and can be blanketed by claiming "It's the Best, Second Best, Third Best, etc. DPS". There is no such thing as variance, DPS casters, Damage Reduction, Damage Immunity, Fortifications, STWF is irrelivant because your always going to break off from your attack chain, Divine Might, Zeal, Smites, obviously can't compete against haste pots and your action boost haste, (which appear to work better in EU w/ The Less Activation Time Feat known as QuickDraw ). Also since, as you stated here about your FE:

FE evil outsider and undead coves alot of ground in ddo. (Don't worrt about Giants, their Hit points are overrated compared to EO & Undead anyway), That's where dps is needed most. mod 9 will take place in shavarath, so I guess there will be alot of outsiders there (hm lets hope they will still count as outsiders, even if its we who are on their plane^^)

We still need to contact Eladrin and tell him not to bother with Hunter of the Dead or Knight of the Chalice since these will pretty much be obsolete compaired with the Monster.


...You know it won't smell so bad once you pull your head out.


Bottom line for anyone interseted in making one, (as I said before in the other post), this guy and his friend have put together what looks like a fun build, with alot of pluses to include evasion and High DPS. If you tell your friends or guildies etc. that its the best, 2nd Best or 3rd Best, just prepare yourself for a long discussion. Plese review this post, and Here , for training on how to spin the argument if you get in over your head.

[FluffyCalico]

We still need to contact Eladrin and tell him not to bother with Hunter of the Dead or Knight of the Chalice since these will pretty much be obsolete compaired with the Monster.


...You know it won't smell so bad once you pull your head out.

This reminds me of the video where the guy moons the donkey and then doesnt run away fast enough

[Desteria]

We still need to contact Eladrin and tell him not to bother with Hunter of the Dead or Knight of the Chalice since these will pretty much be obsolete compaired with the Monster.

HEY get away from my planned KotC inssanity!!!!!!!!

[Aaxeyu]

my testing says it doesnt work, and i cant find anyone who says it does work other than you, who says you are posting under someone else's name so you have no credibility, besides the fact even had you some, you would have less from all the stuff in this thread.

course, maybe it only works in the eu servers and we're both right

I ran 1 character for over a year and a half, and in that 18month period, i ran w/ 2 different boosts, and I had quickdraw on that character. At no point in time did quickdraw ever affect the time it took for my boosts to activate. Hell even in the feat description it says nothing about shortening the activation time on boosts. From personal experience I say you are full of it, plain and simple. You've come on our boards w/ your I'm better than you attitude, its been pointed out time and time again where your wrong, and yet you wont just shut up and go back to your own **** boards.



Let me sum up what most of us are thinking right now


G T F O

It does work. And just to clarify:
Quickdraw reduces the delay were you cant attack after the boost have been activated. That is probably a more accurate way to say it, but the outcome is the same.
The activation itself is instant, but without quickdraw you will have to wait 1-2 sec before you can attack.

[Aaxeyu]

Aaxeyu, I honestly thought you were comin around when I read this on the other Post:



Until I read what you updated.




According to you and your calculations of DPS the game is not fluid; situations and conditions don't change as frequently as your arguments do and can be blanketed by claiming "It's the Best, Second Best, Third Best, etc. DPS". There is no such thing as variance, DPS casters, Damage Reduction, Damage Immunity, Fortifications, STWF is irrelivant because your always going to break off from your attack chain, Divine Might, Zeal, Smites, obviously can't compete against haste pots and your action boost haste, (which appear to work better in EU w/ The Less Activation Time Feat known as QuickDraw ). Also since, as you stated here about your FE:


We still need to contact Eladrin and tell him not to bother with Hunter of the Dead or Knight of the Chalice since these will pretty much be obsolete compaired with the Monster.


...You know it won't smell so bad once you pull your head out.


Bottom line for anyone interseted in making one, (as I said before in the other post), this guy and his friend have put together what looks like a fun build, with alot of pluses to include evasion and High DPS. If you tell your friends or guildies etc. that its the best, 2nd Best or 3rd Best, just prepare yourself for a long discussion. Plese review this post, and Here , for training on how to spin the argument if you get in over your head.

Perhaps you should read this thread http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...&postcount=184

Do some test yourself, you will find that DM takes a long time to activate, but DF and zeal is pretty fast, smites and DS goes pretty well with the attackchain too. (I never stated the opposite). Read my previous post on the hasteboost with quickdraw and test it for yourself.

Lol, I better take FE giant so I can kill all those giants in SoS faster! FE undead and EO is the best way to go atm, but if you have got your perfect docent from SoS and don't want to run it again you can always change undead to something else (abomination or construct perhaps?). Otherwise FE undead and OE covers the fights where dps really matters.

[Desteria]

Otherwise FE undead and OE covers the fights where dps really matters.

and FE CONVSTRUCT ANY things that gets me out of part one a fraction of a second sooner is a blessing, part 4 and 5 are fun part1 is yay i get to beat on a bizzion inanimate objects for fun.