Sword Golem: Kensai Evasion Juggernaut

[geoffhanna]

Sword Golem: Evasive Kensai Juggernaut
Lawful Good Warforged Male
 8 Fighter \ 6 Paladin \ 2 Rogue (16th level) 
12 Fighter \ 6 Paladin \ 2 Rogue (20th level)

What this build is all about:

• Top shelf greatswording
• Good intimidation
• Evasion
• Reasonably self-reliant
• Not a cookie-cutter
• Effective at end game

I have no idea what this means: "You are a devoted follower of the Lord of Blades, and your faith has been rewarded. Activate this ability to become a juggernaut of destruction for 60 seconds." This is the description of the Faith II WF-only enhancement. It sounds really cool. I want some

This build trades some raw power for paladinhood and the Bladesworn Juggernaut transformation. I am kind of pleased with how a lot of this turned out but am concerned that I may be spread too thin, especially:

• Lower HP than I wanted
• Lower AC than I wanted

[Edit] As discussion has progressed it became apparent that AC was not going to be enough to help and it is no longer part of the build. Whether there will be enough HP (and what to do about it if not) remains a core question.

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 16)
Strength             17                    24
Dexterity            11                    12
Constitution         12                    14
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom                6                    6
Charisma             14                    16

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1

[Edit: thanks to several suggestions I dropped WIS by 4 and added them to CHA]

All of the increases went to STR. I have more tomes available but only the INT needs to be consumed right away.

I am ending all of the stats on even numbers. I think +2 tomes will be fairly easy to get and +4 will exist: even numbers will be the way to go?

Hit Points:   
300 base
 60 CON item
 30 GFL
 45 greensteel
 20 minos legens (? depends on change ?)
===
455

Spell Points: 25 
BAB:          19\19\24\29\29\34 (? 6th attack ?)

Hit points seem only barely reasonable.

 F   R   W
 0 - 3 - 0   rogue   2
 5 - 2 - 2   paladin 6
 8 - 4 - 4   fighter 12
 2 - 2 - 2   aura
 6 - 6 - 6   CHA
 0 - 4 - 0   DEX
 5 - 0 - 0   CON
 0 - 0 - 6   force of personality
 5 - 5 - 5   resistance item
31  26  25   beholder saves

[Edit] Inspired by Jay's awesome breakdown, I reworked the saves. Considering this is without any bard songs or buff spells I think it looks pretty good. I am not including head of good fortune because I am hoping to have a bloodstone in that slot.

To Hit                        Damage
 19 BAB (unarmed)             3d6 base greensteel 
  8 str                         8 str
  3 str (item)                  3 str (item)
  4 str (power surge)           4 str (power surge)
  2 kensai I & II              10 power attack
  5 base greensteel             4 wpn spec/grtr wpn spec 
 -7 power attack                2 greatsword spec I & II
  1 faith II                    4 kensai I & II
  2 wpn focus/grtr wpn focus    2 WF power attack
                                5 base greensteel 
 ==                            ==  
 37                            53.5

These numbers are both low because I do not know the exact adds given for two-handed fighting. In PnP I think it is damage x1.5 and if so the damage will go up 7.5 (+37.5/61)

Crits will only be x2 but will be +6 to confirm and +10 pre-multiplier damage and another +6/+6 if I include a bloodstone (+50.5/77). I think I will crit for average of 154?

I have no idea what effect the Juggernaut thing will have on these numbers. I assume there will be some impact. And I also have not included any tomes but I will have access to them.

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
Intimidate            5                    20
Jump                  7                    15
Use Magic Device      5                    20

Feats
Level  1 (Rogue)   Force of Personality
Level  3 (Paladin) Two Handed Fighting 
Level  6 (Paladin) Power Attack 
Level  9 (Fighter) Cleave
Level  9 (Fighter) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Level 10 (Fighter) Great Cleave
Level 12 (Fighter) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Level 12 (Fighter) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Level 14 (Fighter) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Level 15 (Fighter) Toughness
Level 16 (Fighter) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Level 18 (Fighter) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Level 18 (Fighter) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Level 20 (Fighter) Quickdraw? Dodge? Another Toughness?

It really is all about the greatsword.

[Edit] swapped out Mithril Body, swapped in Force of Personality
[Edit] took Imp Crit:Slash at 9 instead of 10, pushing back greater cleave from 9 -> 10.

Rogue Enhancements
Rogue Dexterity I

Warforged Enhancements
Warforged Damage Reduction I
Warforged Brute Fighting II
Warforged Healer's Friend II
Warforged Power Attack I
Warforged Constitution II

Paladin Enhancements
Follower of the Lord of Blades
Bladesworn Transformation
Paladin Courage of Good I
Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Paladin Resistance of Good I
Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Paladin Exalted Smite I
Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Paladin Charisma II

Fighter Enhancements
Fighter Attack Boost III
Fighter Critical Accuracy III
Fighter Kensai II
Fighter Greatsword Master II
Fighter Armor Mastery I
Fighter Greatsword Specialization II
Fighter Toughness III
Fighter Strength III

I wonder if I spent too many enhancements screwing around with paladin auras instead of drilling into more toughness and intimidate. OTOH they are also the only thing I can change so I don't really care if I get them perfect the first time.

This build created with the help of
Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 2.96 
DDO Character Planner Home Page
Thanks Ron!

[geoffhanna]

This is my first shot at a WF build so I am certain I missed big obvious things.

Have at me

[geoffhanna]

I failed to include Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude. Hmm I will need to carve 6Ap out of something. I wonder if WFGWA will be more effective at agro management than WF Brute Fighting?

[QuantumFX]

I failed to include Warforged Great Weapon Aptitude. Hmm I will need to carve 6Ap out of something. I wonder if WFGWA will be more effective at agro management than WF Brute Fighting?

You might also be interested in what the Warforged Juggernaut PrE brings you.

[BlackSteel]

keep in mind if u're interested in the WF juggernaught pre enhancement; it'll likely have addy body as a prereq.

[TreknaQudane]

Why not scrap Wisdom all together, put the points towards constitution or another stat, and take Force of Personality as a feat to augment your will save? The downside.. you need 13 Cha to do so.

[TreknaQudane]

keep in mind if u're interested in the WF juggernaught pre enhancement; it'll likely have addy body as a prereq.

Which won't allow evasion.

[BlackSteel]

yep

[geoffhanna]

The juggernaught enhancement does not have addy body as a prereq.

Sometimes the compendium is wrong. Is this one of those times?

[TreknaQudane]

The juggernaught enhancement does not have addy body as a prereq.

Sometimes the compendium is wrong. Is this one of those times?

The Follower of the Lord of Blades has no armor requirement...

I'm pretty sure BS was refering to the WF Juggernaut PrE people are hoping for.

[Jay203]

take out mith body, remove all wisdom, pump more into cha, take force of personality

[geoffhanna]

take out mith body, remove all wisdom, pump more into cha, take force of personality

I can see how this would increase the will save, and paladin effects, and I see why that is a good thing. But there is a trade off: I will need a wisdom item to learn or to cast any paladin spell. I was just going to eat a +1 WIS tome.

If I drop the wis to 6, I get four points I can put somewhere else (CHA) but I'll be 9th or 11th level before I can use a WIS item good enough to get me to 11.

This is what you all have done?

(and how do people make up the 5 AC?)

I'm pretty sure BS was refering to the WF Juggernaut PrE people are hoping for.

Oh. I can see that, but why would they refer to this Bladesworn Transformation enhancement as a "juggernaut" if this was not their intended implementation of that concept? Coincidence?

[hu-flung-pu]

I can see how this would increase the will save, and paladin effects, and I see why that is a good thing. But there is a trade off: I will need a wisdom item to learn or to cast any paladin spell. I was just going to eat a +1 WIS tome.

If I drop the wis to 6, I get four points I can put somewhere else (CHA) but I'll be 9th or 11th level before I can use a WIS item good enough to get me to 11.

This is what you all have done?

(and how do people make up the 5 AC?)



Oh. I can see that, but why would they refer to this Bladesworn Transformation enhancement as a "juggernaut" if this was not their intended implementation of that concept? Coincidence?

You're reading too much in to the word and the prc. The juggernaut is a barbarian prc in pen and paper. Their use of the word is to describe the boost a warforged gets.

[TreknaQudane]

You'd be fine in Mithral Body... It will just be painful to get the AC you need to be anything other than a chew toy while using a two handed weapon.

And yeah, dropping your wisdom to 6 would mean you need a +5 or +4 Wisdom Item to cast spells.

Except you're not going to have that many useful spells. The only one you may cast? Divine Favor, so you lose out on a possible 2 Attack and 2 Damage.

Side note: I notice you've got Fighter Toughness 3 on your list. Just take Fighter Toughness 2 and Racial Toughness 1 to save some points to put elsewhere

[slaymen]

I think its a fine build but your reflex save is so low would you really be evading anything:?

[BlackSteel]

The Follower of the Lord of Blades has no armor requirement...

I'm pretty sure BS was refering to the WF Juggernaut PrE people are hoping for.

Yep, if you check out the list of PrE 's given by eladrin around the holidays, you'll see warforge get the juggernaught as their racial PrE. Just like dwarves get defender, and elves get arcane archer. Expected release would probably be mod 10.

The PrE would likely have addy body as a prereq. The cleric/palidan divine enhancement obviously does not.

I did learn recently tho that one of the buffs for the lord of blades can be given to others.

[Jay203]

well, with a +1 tome (which is easy to get) all you need is a +4 item to cast divine favor
but i'd recommend you to save the sp for divine sacrifice, they are a lot more worth the sp than DF when you only have 6 lvls of pally
screw ac all together, you can't reach decent ac going 2handed fighting and trying for evasion, focus instead more on higher hp and higher saves

8/6/2 Fighter/Pally/Rogue
Stats:
str: 16 base + 4 lvl + 2 enhancement + 6 item = 28 (+9)
dex: 9 base + 1 enahancement + 6 item = 16 (+3)
con: 16 base + 2 enahancement + 6 item  = 24 (+7)
int: 13 base + 1 tome at lvl 1 = 14
wis: 6
cha: 14 base + 2 enahancement + 6 item = 22 (+6)


AC: not worth mentioniong

HP:
at lvl 16
 80  fighter base (d10/lvl)   saves at lvl 8: 6/2/2, at lvl 12: 8/4/4
 60  Paladin base (d10/lvl)   saves at lvl 6: 5/2/2
 12  rogue base (d6/lvl)      saves at lvl 2: 0/3/0
102  con bonus
 20  heroic durability
 10  dragonic vitality
 18  toughness
-----
302


at lvl 20
 40  fighter base (d10/lvl)
-----
342

 30 Greater False Life
 45 Green Steel Item
 80 toughness enhancement
-----
497


Saves:
at lvl 20
13/9/6 base
0/0/6 force of personality
7/0/0 con bonus
0/3/0 dex bonus
6/6/6 cha bonus
4/4/4 gh
2/2/2 head of good fortune
5/5/5 restistance item
1/1/1 alchemy bonus
2/2/2 aura
-------
40/32/32

to hit
 19 base
+ 9 str bonus
+ 2 weapon foci feats
+ 1 Bladesworn
- 8 power attack
+ 2 kensai
-----
+25 to hit before buff
+ 4 GH
+ 4 power surge
+ 2 bladesworn juggernaught
+ 1 rage
-----
+36 to hit self buff

Intimidate:
23 base
+15 item
+ 2 kensai
+ 2 head of good fortune
+ 4 gh
+ 6 cha
=-====
52

UMD:
23 base
+2 head of good fortune
+6 cha
+3 skill focus
+4 gh
------
38

just a rough sketch

[geoffhanna]

So - setting aside the Mod10 PrE - I think mos tof the suggestions involved reducing WIS in order to boost something else, even if that means forgoing spells entirely.

Ok I can see that trade off.

If I boost CHA instead the pally abilities will be significatly improved. If I also swap Mithril Body for Force of Personality I even get better Will saves. Jay's workup shows this in action (and thank you for the time that took Jay!).

Good ideas all! I will miss the mithril body, it just seems cool, but really it is the adamantine body that has the awesome look and I am already dumping that for evasion.

Bringing us to this:

I think its a fine build but your reflex save is so low would you really be evading anything:?

Wow that really goes to the heart of the whole build vision. How much DEX is enough? I cannot see a way to have a true DEX build that is also a useful THF. I am assuming I am able to get enough reflex save without the DEX to be worth building.

Is this a bad assumption?

[smyter]

OP,
You say that your reflex save is only 14.

First, what is the point of evasion with such a low reflex save?

Second, are you sure your math is correct. Seems kinda low, esp for a pally with aura.

[geoffhanna]

Yes it is really low. In Jay's workup it is 32 but he is including 6 for CHA.

Here comes a noob question (this is not just my first WF it is also my first real pally) do paladins apply CHA bonus to all saves? I can't find anything like this in the Compendium but I may be just looking in the wrong place.