How good will capstone have to be to....

[talyor]

How good will the paladin capstone have to be to make it not worth taking 2 lvls of rogue for evasion, UMD, and Intimidate? I have always added rogue to all my Paladins because i find the above benefits invauluable. Any thought on what they could do to make a worthwhile capstone?

[EinarMal]

They shouldn't, pure class builds are for flavor or role playing not min-maxing. Almost all full BAB classes (maybe excepting Barbarian) are better off with 2 levels of another class, that is 3.5 D&D 101.

Unless they give out evasion (which would be totally anti 3.5 rules) it will merely make staying pure be less behind a good multi-class build.

Besides combining classes together into good synergistic combinations is what makes this game worth playing.

Also, staying pure class is easy and requires much less thought into the build. The only reason to multi-class is to gain power over a pure class build (that is the whole point). Unless you remove any synergy between classes, some combinations like Paladin/Monk will be better than a pure Paladin.

[Jondallar]

Capstone + Holy Avenger should make it = to paladin 18/2 rogue or /2 monk in effectiveness

[frugal_gourmet]

They shouldn't, pure class builds are for flavor or role playing not min-maxing.

The five most powerful D&D 3.5 builds:

Druid 20
Cleric 20
Wizard 20
Sorcerer 20
Bard 20

[Jondallar]

The five most powerful D&D 3.5 builds:

Druid 20
Cleric 20
Wizard 20
Sorcerer 20
Bard 20

of course those are primarily caster classes. i believe the op was refering to melee multi classes

[Desteria]

The five most powerful D&D 3.5 builds:

Druid 20
Cleric 20
Wizard 20
Sorcerer 20
Bard 20

Druid 20 i can see though there ar ea lot of PRC options that are also total powerhouses noramly givign up soem castign for a LOT of Wildshape melle power.

Cleric 20 Psh!!! there shoudl be at least 1 full castign PRC in there cleric gain NOTHIGN from staying pure cleric cept better turning, and turnigns a joke in 3.5 past low levels.

Wizzard 20 OMG NO.... what self respecting wizzard has more then 5-7 wizzard levels then a combinaton of PRC's wiuth full castign after that.

Sorc 20 See wizzard above though there will be a few 20 sorc around beacuse it;s harder to get PRC requierments on a sorc.

Bard 20!!!!! maby but you get more out of goign to a PRC...


And the hand down most powerfull horrable broken 3.5 build ever was the Lion totam 1 barb level + mutted fighter/melle classes/prcs, Leap attack, poncing, powerattakc form AC build... I have YET to find anything in pourty much any MM that can stand up to the charge form oen of these guys... I naver played on my self but i saw some in action and I played with the numbers/build designs.

[Desteria]

as a note i belive both levle 19 & 20 have some of the DS/DM/ES AP's in them i'm not sure exacly where they all fall, and if it;s remotly possible to actuyl aford them on a pally they will be oen part of the reason to go pure pally.

[Cold_Stele]

The capstone would have to be very good indeed to make you go all the way to 20 instead of splashing.

Thing is though, this is DDO not PnP. Enhancements often are very good indeed, better than most feats or abilities available in the PHB. As a result I wouldn't be at all surprised if the capstone makes multiclassed Pallies pretty ****ed.

Reason why I nearly always go pure is cos the enhancement system is the most powerful thing in DDO, and better enhancements are tied to the number of levels in a given class.

[frugal_gourmet]

Druid 20 i can see though there ar ea lot of PRC options that are also total powerhouses noramly givign up soem castign for a LOT of Wildshape melle power.

Cleric 20 Psh!!! there shoudl be at least 1 full castign PRC in there cleric gain NOTHIGN from staying pure cleric cept better turning, and turnigns a joke in 3.5 past low levels.

Wizzard 20 OMG NO.... what self respecting wizzard has more then 5-7 wizzard levels then a combinaton of PRC's wiuth full castign after that.

Sorc 20 See wizzard above though there will be a few 20 sorc around beacuse it;s harder to get PRC requierments on a sorc.

Bard 20!!!!! maby but you get more out of goign to a PRC...

I'm referring to base classes, obviously. There's nothing really comparable to prestige classes in DDO.

[Dexxaan]

The five most powerful D&D 3.5 builds:

Druid 20
Cleric 20
Wizard 20
Sorcerer 20
Bard 20

You are correct, unfortunately we are in DDO not D&D.

[Desteria]

You are correct, unfortunately we are in DDO not D&D.

thopugh in some ways thats makes it more true.... because we dotn have real prc's soo really stayign pure even on a melle is MUCH easyer then in PnP.

[EinarMal]

The five most powerful D&D 3.5 builds:

Druid 20
Cleric 20
Wizard 20
Sorcerer 20
Bard 20

Haha nice try I said full BAB classes should always MC.

[frugal_gourmet]

Haha nice try I said full BAB classes should always MC.

Darnit!!! I so thought I had you!

[maddmatt70]

The five most powerful D&D 3.5 builds:

Druid 20
Cleric 20
Wizard 20
Sorcerer 20
Bard 20

Unless the dm mandates that there will be no prestige classes in his/her campaign all of my characters have a prestige class or at least a sprinkle of it. The only two actually that I would consider not having a prestige class would be Monk or Druid. Druid because I would want full spell casting and the ability to shape change into huge elementals in conjunction and monk because of the nice level 20 stuff from the class and monk abilities are based on monk level.

Wizard 15 5 archmagi is in every way superior to wizard and the same can be said for sorcerer and there is a ton of excellent other sorcerer and wizard prestige classes. Bard 20 could be a warchanter or seeker of the song, etc. which is all better then being a straight bard. Cleric has a ton of great prestige classes to choose from such as the radiant servant of pelor. Although I said I would consider going pure druid there is some great druid prestige classes out there such as the master of man forms...

[DelScorcho]

Paladins have received a few boosts to their damage output against their traditional foes through the Hunter of the Dead and Knight of the Chalice prestige enhancement lines, and their first capstone continues to emphasize the good fight against darkness.

Paladin Weapons of Good
Prereq: Level 20 Paladin
Cost: 2 AP
Benefit: Any weapon you wield deal 2d6 additional holy damage against non-good opponents and 2d6 additional light damage against evil undead or evil outsiders.

.

Its pretty nice, but I still think the 2 rogue splash is better, as you can max UMD, Intimidate, and get evasion, +1 dex, and rogue speed boost 1. A pure pally (so long as he can stay up) with a fully upgraded KoC enhancement line will be a beast with transmuting of greater evil outsider bane - 10d6 extra damage per hit against the fiend.

[Desteria]

IMO it's good enough to to make it a hard decision, monk/rouge splash for survivability via evation, anbd umd etc OR massiver DPS form top levels DS/ES+capstone....

both are valid and good options it;s a trade off that you have to think abotu that imo is just abotu the right balace betwene the 2.