Wizard versus Sorceror - Solo Suitability

[DerenOrcrist]

I know that both of these classes are considered 'Challenging' for soloing according to the character creator, but I was wondering what the community thought as a whole? (or part).

I have created both - and Elf Wizard and a Human Sorceror; discounting the fact that the wizard starts off with 1 more spell (I never used the second attack spell on my wizard through the first dungeon) - I found that the sorceror seems.. well.. squishier. I used a pre-built template for the Wizard (forget which one) and custom rolled the sorceror, concentrating on WIS, CHA, DEX, and INT using the Toughness feat and the one that prolongs spell length - I got the build as close to the wizard as possible and found myself needing rest shrines more on the Sorc.

Probably my playstyle but which would be better in y'alls opinion? My main is going to be either a Pal or a Fighter but I tend to have alts in different categories and was planning on a caster and possibly a rogue/ranger [or a mix].

[Irongutz2000]

[QUOTE=DerenOrcrist;1985756 and custom rolled the sorceror, concentrating on WIS, CHA, DEX, and INT using the Toughness feat and the one that prolongs spell length - I got the build as close to the wizard as possible and found myself needing rest shrines more on the Sorc.

.[/QUOTE]

Theres ur prob there sorcs r chars based, u Need max chars, at least 14 con, an at least 10 int, forget the rest Put skill pionts into umd an concentration.

[Electric_Pulses]

I personally like Wizards better due to being so much more versatile then the sorc which I find comes in handy for certain quests, ony thing that bugs me is that my wizard has 34 umd and some sorcs have 39+ which is nice for using heal scrolls. I dont find mana to be a concern to me so w/ a sorc I just limit my arsenal so that I can spam FoD faster for that oh so important kill count. But probably more people on the forums would say go sorc cuz almost anytime a sorc vs wizard thread pops up more people back up sorc then wiz

[Dktr]

The big problem with soloing as a caster is being able to heal yourself and killing/charming mobs before they kill you.

Sorcerers can get a really high use magic device skill thereby they can use cleric wands and scrolls to heal themselves. If they invest enough into this skill, any race can self heal as a sorcerer. Also, sorcerers have fast casting and more spell points and can kill with great efficiency.

Wizards have a larger spell selection and more feats and will always have the right spell for the right occasion. If you make a warforged wizard/sorcerer you can use repair spells to self heal. A warforged wiz/rogue multi-class is a great solo option.

Furthermore, we now have hireling clerics and rogues. With a hirelin both wizards and sorcerers are more viable in soloability.

[Darth_Sizzle]

Tried and tested, Warforged Wizard FTW

[Nevthial]

Tried and tested, Warforged Wizard FTW

What he said

[Dktr]

I personally like Wizards better due to being so much more versatile then the sorc which I find comes in handy for certain quests, ony thing that bugs me is that my wizard has 34 umd and some sorcs have 39+ which is nice for using heal scrolls. I dont find mana to be a concern to me so w/ a sorc I just limit my arsenal so that I can spam FoD faster for that oh so important kill count. But probably more people on the forums would say go sorc cuz almost anytime a sorc vs wizard thread pops up more people back up sorc then wiz

I would argue that a fully specced umd sorc has far more options than a wizard. In order for the wizard to measure up to a sorcerer, he would need to leave quicken turned on and be prepared to drink a lot of mana pots.

The use magic device skill will allow the sorcerer to make full use of all cleric spells that can be scrolled. My drow sorcerer has no problem soloing by himself most anything in the game. For my wizard to solo, I need to bring a hireling cleric along (and I'm still hard pressed to get from one shrine to the next even with the pocket cleric's dv's). However, I do solo with both. I just have to be more creative when my sorc is on ransack.

[PurdueDave]

Furthermore, we now have hireling clerics and rogues.

Hireling rogues? AFAIK, that's not true.

[sephiroth1084]

Wizard will let you adjust to a quest either before hand or during the adventure: lots of undead, bring Halt Undead; lots of humanoids, bring Charm Person; lot's of and lots of monsters, bring Expeditious Retreat ).

The sorc will be far less flexible, but will be able to keep on trucking for longer due to having more SP. Also, a sorc will be able to get out of a tight spot more reliably since they cast faster and have shorter cooldowns...though, a wizard shouldn't be in that spot in the first place.

But, as stated above, you will have some trouble self-healing at low levels, whether on a sorc or wizard, though the sorc has enough SP to heal and destroy for a bit.

In either case, you want to max your casting stat (Int for Wiz, Cha for Sorc) with an 18 or 16 if you are a race with a penalty to your main stat, and then you should probably get your Con to at least a 14 regardless of race. After that, I'd probably make sure the sorc has at least a 10 Int, and maybe give the wizard a 10 in Wis and Cha (so your Will saves don't look too much like that of a fighter's, and so that you have a little bit going toward UMD if you decide to take it). Oh, and I'd start with a 10 Str, just so you can carry more gear before you are encumbered and also to give you a buffer vs. Ray of Enfeeblement.

[Impaqt]

Its hard to beat the Flexibility and Durability of a WF Wizard for Soloing. Yeah, SOrcs get more Spell Points, but if soloing smartly, they very rarely come into play. The ability to have exactly the right spell for the situation at hand is a huge advantage. Self repairing is also highly benefitial for the lower levels where you can never have enough UMD as a sorc in order to do it reliably with anything other than potions. Tactical use of AOE, Resetting Rest Shrines, a 5 Minute reset of instances make spell points pretty much a non issue.

Of course, if your a Hard core soloist doing quest on hard and elite, thats where the spellpoint benefit comes into play.... For the average person thats wants something to do while waiting for a group, there is no practical benefit to a Sorc.

[DerenOrcrist]

Thanks all for the information

I maxed out CHA on my Sorc - I remembered that much from my PnP days (when the DM was nice enough to offer point builds rather than roll builds at least) but I guess I put too much into other stats too; 25 HP (with Toughness feat) isn't much though the 230 SP I had was good for a bit. I think I have CON up to 10 or 11 - can't check with the servers down :/, and STR is at 12 (I figured that I would be able to at least hold my own when they close to melee range) so that can be changed on a re-roll. Luckily I don't have much time invested in the Sorc yet - only Rank 3 - probably going to keep trucking as long as I can with the current build to see where I can get.

I am going to reroll my Wizard as a Warforged thanks to the advice y'all gave, considering the # of repair kits and Potions of Light Repair I have gotten on other characters this looks like a good choice. What spells do you all normally start with? I don't much like Burning Hands (Took it on my Sorc but the damage seems paltry - I can outdamage with a +1 Mace easily), Magic missile is nice and I most definitely am also going to get Summon Creature I because that Celestial Dog helps out alot from what I have seen. Whats the best way to get my SP pool up on a WF Wiz? I know there are feats/enhancements that boost this but I want a decent pool to start out with.

[sephiroth1084]

Charm Person is excellent (not sure if it works on sahaugin, but it doe work on kobolds), since, for the cost of one 1st level spell, you get damage, crowd control, and an aggro magnet (better than a summoned dog). Try charming a monster in a group of others from as far away as you can, and let them fight amongst themselves. When your minion dies, charm another, or go in and hit them with Burning Hands after they've been softened up.

What metamagic feats have you taken with your characters at lvl 1? Or what feats generally? I'd say Mental Toughness for the wizard will be more important/useful than Toughness (SP>HP) and the 3 points of HP you get from Toughness will not help much right now. Empower or Maxmize, while expensive, can be useful in some situations, and will make burning hands better (whatever metamagic you acquire, do not leave it on all the time).

Burning Hands is better than Magic Missile (MM to most people) at lower levels because you tend to fight swarms of kobolds and such, which would be costly to deal with individually via MM. I cannot attest to the usefulness of Summon Monster I, since I never bothered using it, but if you hang back and let the dog or a charmed minion soften a group up, you'll probably get more mileage out of BH. Also, see if you can find a potency or combustion item on the Auction House when you leave Korthos Island...that will boost your BH damage, and also take the wizard enhancements that boost fire and cold damage. MM is useful, but more so against specific targets that are otherwise difficult to damage (due to immunity, spell resistance or something else).

Personally, I'd say try to group with people until you hit level 3, when you really start getting great spells: Web, Glitterdust, Scorching Ray, Otto's Resistible Dance, the +4 stat boosts, Resist Energy... These will be some of the best tools you'll have for soloing even at higher levels.

Oh, given the choice between upping your Str and meleeing or upping your Dex and using a crossbow or bow (if you're an elf), I'd go with the latter since a) your HP and base attack bonus are low, and you don't want to be trading blows with something that has better in both (stay AWAY from monsters as often as possible), and b) the boost to Dex will help your Reflex saves out until you (may) grab Insight Reflexes (wizard).

Search around the wizard and sorcerer forums for people's opinions on useful/necessary spells going up through the levels, and on your wizard, try to devote some of your income toward acquiring and scribing as many spells at each level as you can (flexibility is your strongest ability).

[CSFurious]

the ability to change spells, free metamagics, & hiring a wf tank to escort you makes leveling a wizard easier than a sor IMO

[smyter]

I will say this much... after playing a sorc, it is tough to play a wiz due to the slower cast times and smaller sp pool of the wiz. Sure a wiz can get quicken spell for free to speed up cast times, but not the sp to leave it up all the time. I know many people love their wizzies... esp warforge... I just lost interest after about 8 levels of casting in slo-mo.

[sirgog]

I will say this much... after playing a sorc, it is tough to play a wiz due to the slower cast times and smaller sp pool of the wiz. Sure a wiz can get quicken spell for free to speed up cast times, but not the sp to leave it up all the time. I know many people love their wizzies... esp warforge... I just lost interest after about 8 levels of casting in slo-mo.

Same.

At endgame also, WF Sorcs are more survivable when things go wrong - the lower timer on Reconstruct may keep you alive longer when doing things like, say, the force traps in Litany of the Dead. Plus, Sorcs are better in boss fights due to more SP and quicker cast cooldowns.

[parvo]

Either the sorc or wizard can solo very well. The challenging rating applies only to new players.

[Arianrhod]

I think, as with any "wiz vs. sorc" thread that it comes down to playstyle preference. On the one hand, the sorc has the casting speed and power pool to make soloing less painful. On the other hand, the wiz has the versatility to pick the right spells for the quest, which helps make up for the lack of other party members. If you're a run-through-the quest-at-warp-speed type, you'll probably do better with a sorc. If you're a tackle-each-challenge-methodically type, wiz might suit you better. At the highest levels, wiz might edge out sorc, just because metamagic feats (quicken...) and mnemonic elixirs can make up for the casting speed and power pool issues better than wands and scrolls can substitute for the greater variety of spells available.

[Lifespawn]

I think, as with any "wiz vs. sorc" thread that it comes down to playstyle preference. On the one hand, the sorc has the casting speed and power pool to make soloing less painful. On the other hand, the wiz has the versatility to pick the right spells for the quest, which helps make up for the lack of other party members. If you're a run-through-the quest-at-warp-speed type, you'll probably do better with a sorc. If you're a tackle-each-challenge-methodically type, wiz might suit you better. At the highest levels, wiz might edge out sorc, just because metamagic feats (quicken...) and mnemonic elixirs can make up for the casting speed and power pool issues better than wands and scrolls can substitute for the greater variety of spells available.

how many lvl 8 spells are useful? there are a couple of spells i'd like to have on my wf sorc that i don't have the slots for but those are nice to haves not need to haves.

i think a sorc does it better especially since you can take force of personality to really pump up your willsaves nothing sucks more when soloing than a caster you didn't see greater commanding you and your done.