(Build Proposal) Unyielding Crusader - Dual wielding human battlecleric

[Anthios888]

Stopping only to buff and throw mass heals on the party, this build is designed to eliminate threats fast - via dps, stat damaging, or clerical offensive casting. A front line tank, this cleric will primarly heal with pre-emptive buffing and mass heals on the party (which can take some practice). It will shine as a 2nd cleric simply because it will have more time to fight, but that is not necessary in a group of coordinated players - no healing potential is actually lost. Fitting in evasion and 40% healing amplification were only bonuses.

Doubters will look at the lack of attention to AC, and prefer a dex build or wisdom build, but I believe the loss in to-hit and DPS is too great to justify AC on a build without combat expertise. By stacking guards like the torc and concordant opposition, this build benefits from its mid-level AC - which is just enough to keep you from going down too fast - instead of suffering from it. Change to taste. This is how I would do it at the current cap, with future content in mind.

The build listed uses khopeshes instead of longswords. For a longsword build, swap the khopesh feat for empower spell, oversized two weapon fighting, another improved critical, empower healing, or mental toughness.


Fanfare, a battle cleric on Ghallanda
Level 20 Lawful Neutral Human Female
(2 Monk / 18 Cleric)
Hit Points: 482 HP (no minos legens, rage or yugo pot) - up to 562 hp buffed
Spell Points: 1740

Stats:
34 STR: 16 base + 2 tome + 1 human versatility + 5 level ups + 1 litany +3 ring crafting + 6 item
22 DEX: 15 base + 2 tome + 6 item + 1 litany
28 CON: 15 base + 3 tome + 1 human versatility + 6 item + 1 exceptional con +1 litany
10 INT: 8 base +2 tome, optional
30 WIS: 14 base + 3 tome + 3 enhancements + 2 exceptional + 6 item + 1 litany + 1 exceptional
16 CHA: 8 base + 2 tome + 6 swappable item

Saves: (self-buffed with recitation, gh, holy aura, +5 resist item, alchemical resistance ritual, haste)
Fort: 38
Reflex: 33
Will: 40

Feats and leveling:
Level ups into Str.
Max ranks in concentration, others split between balance, jump, tumble
1st level must be cleric for feats to work out.

Feat: (Human Bonus) Two weapon fighting
1 Feat: (Selected) Extend spell
3 Feat: (Selected) Khopesh
(Monk Bonus) Toughness
Monk Bonus) Power attack (but don't turn it on until higher levels)
6 Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
9 Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
12 Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
15 Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
18 Feat: Greater two weapon fighting

Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortiose I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot IV
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand Mastery III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III



Current/future gear
Weapons:
DPS: Dual mineral II khopeshes: Holy/acid burst/+4 insight AC and Holy/acid burst/+2 wisdom (keen, slicing)
Greater banes; lightning 2 khopeshes
Banishing daggers
Vorpal Khopeshes/kamas
Keen longswords/khopeshes of smiting

Dragontouched robe: +5 resist / any DPS guard / greater potency VII,
Bracers: Bracers of the glacier (200 sp, spell pen VIII, fireshield cold guard)
Goggles: Tharne's goggles w/ resistance ritual
Helm: Crafted Min II(healing lore, +150 exceptional sp, heavy fort, +5 prot)
Necklace: Torc of Prince Raiyum / swap for Tempest set bonus 1d4 slicing
Cloak: Greensteel: 45 hp / +6 wis / +5 concentration / +1 str / Concordant opposition
Trinket: Litany of the dead
Belt: Knost's belt (GFL/6 con)
Gloves: Spectral gloves, Bramble-Casters, Gloves of the Glacier, vile blasphemy
Boots: Gyroscopic Boots, FF/balance, FF/jump, Firestorm greaves, anchoring
Ring: Encrusted ring (6 str, 3 exceptional str, +2 dam set bonus)
Ring: Tempest ring (6 dex, 1 wis, 20% healing amp)

Plenty of room for future gear upgrades to taste.


Current AC:
10 base
6 dragontouched robes
8 wis bonus
6 dex bonus
4 insight shroud
5 protection
1 alchemical AC bonus
1 monk bonus
self-buffed
2 recitation
3 barkskin pot
1 haste
= 46 (quite mediocre, but worth having for some content)

Possible improvements:
1 wisdom bracket
1 dex bracket
4 icy rainments w/ armor 8 bracers
3 chattering ring
2 chaos guards
= 57 (current build opted to go for more guards/utility gear to increase Torc proc rate)

Edited with a few updates for new mod.

[EinarMal]

GTWF is not a monk bonus feat. You can't take that with your monk feat. The only way to get GTWF is to go Cleric 13/Monk 2/Fighter 1 or wait to the cap increase and take it at level 18.

[GunboatDiplomat]

Biggest weakness of this build imo is the BAB of 11 (12 with monk weapons). Even with the spectral gloves and destruction robe you're going to have problems hitting high ac mobs, especially with power attack on. This more or less compels you to use cleric buffs which can be a big drain on your sp:

Extended Divine Power 30
Extended Divine favour 20
Extended Recitation 30
Total 80

Given your ac is also too low to mitigate much damage and therefore you'll have to self heal you'll be burning through sp pretty fast if operating at full effectiveness.

Don't get me wrong, my hat off to you for trying something different and its certainly a workable build that can be very effective. Just pointing out sp magagement can be tricky.

Oh, you'll also be rubbish against beholders but hey, so are most builds

[sirgog]

Oh, you'll also be rubbish against beholders but hey, so are most builds

Beholders are only a problem when solo as a cleric. When grouped, get behind them and drop a quickened, max-empped BB, and they're toast. (Wear a Silver Flame necklace or you're toast too).

[GunboatDiplomat]

Beholders are only a problem when solo as a cleric. When grouped, get behind them and drop a quickened, max-empped BB, and they're toast. (Wear a Silver Flame necklace or you're toast too).

Even a quickened bb takes long enough to cast for a beholder to twist around and cancel, as they often do. If you do manage to cast it theres no guarantee they will stay in the aoe.

Its an option sure, but, imo, not as good a one as whacking it with the right weapons, which is that more difficult with a BAB of 11.

[Gol]

Beholders are only a problem when solo as a cleric. When grouped, get behind them and drop a quickened, max-empped BB, and they're toast. (Wear a Silver Flame necklace or you're toast too).

Better off maxing wisdom (especially on a build like this) for better AC and just Destruct the thing.

[Anthios888]

Doesn't this build only lose like 1 BAB versus any other battlecleric? Because I play one full-time and to-hit is vastly overstated - In practice, I only rarely need divine power for a few high-ac mobs, and only use divine favor when I'm focused on DPS. Now, in the future? Maybe there will be more of an advantage to playing a full BAB character.

Sorry about the mistake with g2wf, a friend swore it was available to monks despite my protests.

PS - my personal beholder strategy (like most fighters) is to hit the haste boost and use a high + weakening of enfeebling rapier. Move fast and you can sometimes even keep your buffs.

PPS - maxing wisdom isn't an option here; that would be a completely different build. The level split looks like it is, but I'm mostly just using monk levels for their feats and evasion - you could do the same with a 2 fighter splash.

[GunboatDiplomat]

Doesn't this build only lose like 1 BAB versus any other battlecleric? Because I play one full-time and to-hit is vastly overstated - In practice, I only rarely need divine power for a few high-ac mobs, and only use divine favor when I'm focused on DPS. Now, in the future? Maybe there will be more of an advantage to playing a full BAB character.

A similar twf fighter or ranger is likely to have at least +7 to hit higher than this build (+5 BAB and probably an extra +2 from str/dex, not counting feats). That is pretty significant and it will seriously affect your dps/kill rate unless you use some method to offset it. Maybe you travel with a bard. Fine. Using madstone boots is risky as you lose spellcasting ability. sneak attack bonuses - wrong class. Attack lower ac mobs. An option. Use stat damagers. Another option for non-bosses. Turn off power attack - hey, even barbarians do this now and again.

So its completely manageable and one of the best options for a battle cleric is using your cleric buffs. And that burns through sp fast, especially in a prolonged fight or when you have beholders around.

As I said, still a very nice build, every build has its strengths and weaknesses though, and imo the biggest weakness in this build is the lower BAB because when your damage is coming from melee thats very important.

[PurdueDave]

Better off maxing wisdom (especially on a build like this) for better AC and just Destruct the thing.

Yeah. Just need to take some deaths solo honing down your "pump fake".

[BLAKROC]

divine power gives you full bab status = to a fighter of same level.

bab is a non issue on this type/ any battle cleric build

[Noctus]

divine Power Gives You Full Bab Status = To A Fighter Of Same Level.

Bab Is A Non Issue On This Type/ Any Battle Cleric Build

Qft.

[Anthios888]

A friend is doing this build by dropping greater 2wf, taking a monk level at 5 or 6 and picking up power attack, and using the level 6 feat for khopesh. She will pick up greater 2wf at 18 - certainly won't be capped before mod 9 anyway. She will be ready to take any cleric prestige classes, but if they're lame, the option remains to take a fighter level before cap for the extend feat (by swapping). No extend, but she doesn't care.

[Grenfell]

Cute build, Rachna.

I don't like your enhancements -- in particular, these

Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot IV

For a non-healbot build, Prayer of Life does very little for its cost, IMHO. Relying on crits for healing seems a poor choice to me.

Zealot IV is 4 AP's for how many extra SP's?

Life Magic IV I can justify, but again, it's only a 10% boost for 4 AP's.

I'd rather get a little bit of Human Versatility in there, Wand IV (that 10% saves you actual money), along with another Extra Turning perhaps (in case you die, and need to redo your Sovereign Host).

/gren

[Anthios888]

I knew you'd grab that

Your points are all good but do come down to preference. Action points are extremely flexible since very little relies on them. I tend to put in the crits because I try to keep a party up in combat with mass heals and it fills the gaps, but that was pretty much the last thing I threw in. Looking at it again, I thought I did have another extra turning, but that must have been an oversight.

EoZ IV is a waste of AP, but it does help cover the build's biggest weakness: spell points.

HV might be a good idea for throwing in some extra damage, I hadn't considered that but it's a neat option.

I'd never roll a cleric without Life magic IV just because everyone with a cleric icon ends up babysitting sometimes, and it is ultimately only 4 AP.

Wand mastery IV? Go ahead. I used to be into it but now only take Wand mastery II.

If anything, I'd drop unyielding sovreignty, but I left it in for flavor and because it is sometimes very handy to be able to remove death illnesses or full heal warforged barbarians.

[maddmatt70]

Why longswords? Go rapiers so you can do quality stat damaging? Yes you don't have proficiency with rapiers so my next question is why human and not something like drow which would give you rapier profiency?

[Angelus_dead]

Regrets: No extend. Would consider dropping IC: Pierce for extend if the status of con damage changes. Also, no sundering ooze guard

You could drop either Quicken or Toughness for Extend, and would be better off.

[Anthios888]

Why longswords? Go rapiers so you can do quality stat damaging? Yes you don't have proficiency with rapiers so my next question is why human and not something like drow which would give you rapier profiency?

My thinking is, why build for 30 strength and waste it on stat damage? Do you really consider dual wielding w/p daggers to be a meaningless stat damage contribution for someone with a cleric icon?

Why human: Human has way more HP (drow has max only 350ish assuming similar str), less mana and lower DCs (less wisdom to start), an extra feat (my hot commodity), improved recovery, and they are not blue. Drow rapier damage is really nice, though, but I can't think of anything else that helps this particular build.

I think the end build ends up using khopeshes unless something changes in mod 9. An expansion to the longsword enhancement line would add a lot of flavor.

BTW - Drow, elf, or halfling finesse dex build would be a fantastic combination with the monk levels for better AC but missed the build goals I had set for myself. There are also a few other great examples of similar builds already posted on the forums. But it's just a totally different build. A stat damager AC build would make a very nice support character, but an effective 2wf strength battlecleric was my goal.

Maddmatt, if you would like to post a counter build I really would love to see how you would work it with a drow.

[Mhykke]

My thinking is, why build for 30 strength and waste it on stat damage?

Rapiers, with the racial enhancements, are actually very solid dps weapons. Doesn't have to be just for stat damage.

[Anthios888]

You could drop either Quicken or Toughness for Extend, and would be better off.

2 monk levels, and only 2 monk feats in my current build - toughness and power attack. Can't really swap toughness unless I rebuild without evasion (14 cle / 2 ftr ).

Why would you recommend extend over quicken on a build like this? Curious as to your thoughts.

[Anthios888]

Rapiers, with the racial enhancements, are actually very solid dps weapons. Doesn't have to be just for stat damage.

Exactly - that's why I was asking why he thought I should focus on stat damage instead of DPS?