Thinking of making my first caster (Wiz/Sorc)...

[gHzSWB]

...and I want some input on Wizzy or Sorc.

I get the basic differences, at least I think I do. Sorc has less flexibility but more SP for nukage. WF works well with Wizzy but not as much with Sorc due to CHA limitations, Drow seems well suited to Sorc.

So my thoughts are a more toughish WF wizzy who can self heal and maybe take a bit more of that aggro when it comes even if he has to be selective about when he casts VS a Drow Sorc with lots of SP for casting but less survivability save a friendly cleric nearby.

I think the survivability of the Wizzy is immediately appealing but the extra nukability of the Sorc also seems interesting. What are some thoughts and suggestions on some starting stats (28 pt still as I cann take the 1750 grind) and feats to pursue?

[uhgungawa]

srandard rule of thumb is start with a wizzy, more feats and more flexible, if you like it and want more, then make a sorc

[bobbryan2]

WF sorcs are well worth even the charisma hit. If you want to play a tough caster, and you want to play a sorc... just play the WF sorc.

[gHzSWB]

It seems the spell flexibility and the feats makes a wizzy a far better choice - is a sorc getting that much more SP to make up for it or what?

[bobbryan2]

It seems the spell flexibility and the feats makes a wizzy a far better choice - is a sorc getting that much more SP to make up for it or what?

That, and faster casting, synergy with UMD, better charisma based skills than INT... diplo, intimidate, bluff, and haggle all have uses in quests that you can probably get with just an item.

Sorcs have about 50% more SP than a wizzy. I personally started with a sorc.. and have tried, honestly, to roll a wizzy, but haven't been able to do it. Most everyone I know that plays a wizard first considered the sorcerer and upgrade when thy rolled one up.

[Noctus]

srandard rule of thumb is start with a wizzy, more feats and more flexible, if you like it and want more, then make a sorc

Yes, i second that.
My 1st arcane caster was a Human Sorcerer, i still play him as my main, but in retrospective i should have build a Wizard. Especially when you still dont know all the spells from a caster´s perspective, and when which spell is optimal, or how to sghuffle around your spell slots (no need for suggestion if you already have charm monster) andso on. I spend really, really, reaaaaally much Plat and annoying waiting time untill i had my spell selection compete.

And if you roll up a Wizard, Warforged are really good at it. Though& Self-Healing are a great combo on a naturally squishy class.

[shores11]

srandard rule of thumb is start with a wizzy, more feats and more flexible, if you like it and want more, then make a sorc

This statement is very confusing and doesn't really make any sense. For more feats and spells make a wizard but if you want more later make a sorcerer, HUH?

A wizard or a sorcerer is no better or worse than the other they both just have different assests. I have played both a wizard for almost 3 years now and a sorcerer for a little over 1 year. Its all a preference and mine is wizard, wizards true have more spell options and feats but with less spell points and casts a little slower than a sorcerer.

I have built my wizard with a little over 1600 spell points and have found that I almost never run out for the play style I have.

I do not get into the race thing for playing a caster because most of the variances can almost be completely overcome in some way. My wizard is a human and my sorcerer is a drow, I also have another wizard that is an elf. I can tell you now that all of them play very well and I have no problems contributing to a party or getting into one.

[shores11]

That, and faster casting, synergy with UMD, better charisma based skills than INT... diplo, intimidate, bluff, and haggle all have uses in quests that you can probably get with just an item.

Sorcs have about 50% more SP than a wizzy. I personally started with a sorc.. and have tried, honestly, to roll a wizzy, but haven't been able to do it. Most everyone I know that plays a wizard first considered the sorcerer and upgrade when thy rolled one up.

It is ok to be pro-sorcerer if that is your choice but please be honest.

The facts:

A sorcerer does not have 50% more spell points than a wizard. My capped sorcerer has about 2100 spell points and my wizard has about 1650 spell points.

It is not an upgrade to move from a wizard to a sorcerer it is a choice.

Yes a sorcerer has faster casting time but synergy with UMD maybe a little because a sorcerer is charisma based. My sorcerers UMD is 4 points higher than my wizards and thats just becasue of charisma. Not a huge difference.

Choosing between the two is a choice based on your play style. Try to look at it objectively not as biased as some of these replys.

[bobbryan2]

It is ok to be pro-sorcerer if that is your choice but please be honest.

The facts:

A sorcerer does not have 50% more spell points than a wizard. My capped sorcerer has about 2100 spell points and my wizard has about 1650 spell points.

It is not an upgrade to move from a wizard to a sorcerer it is a choice.

Yes a sorcerer has faster casting time but synergy with UMD maybe a little because a sorcerer is charisma based. My sorcerers UMD is 4 points higher than my wizards and thats just becasue of charisma. Not a huge difference.

Choosing between the two is a choice based on your play style. Try to look at it objectively not as biased as some of these replys.

Ok, your wizard has 1650. I know sorcs that top 2500. How is that not 50% more?

Yes, they have casting speed.

And yes... they have more UMD with the charisma synergy. And it's a lot more than +4 unless you have about a 28 charisma. Is your wizard a splash class and takes UMD as a class skill, because I don't think that's quite a fair comparison.

[Wizzly_Bear]

for your first caster i would definitely suggest wizard (wf prefereably for self heal) so that you can play around with all the different spells and figure out how you want to play. if you then want faster casting and/or more sps switch to sorc. i've played both and still prefer wf wiz to any sorc. i rarely run out of sps, self heal, and i can carry all the spells i like withouit having to sacrifice some or spend a lot of money on less effective scrolls.

also, umd is pointless if youre a wf wiz so its not really important.

[Wizzly_Bear]

Ok, your wizard has 1650. I know sorcs that top 2500. How is that not 50% more?

Yes, they have casting speed.

And yes... they have more UMD with the charisma synergy. And it's a lot more than +4 unless you have about a 28 charisma. Is your wizard a splash class and takes UMD as a class skill, because I don't think that's quite a fair comparison.

max for wiz is around 1850 for an elf wiz, 1810 for a wf. i think sorcs can max around 2600, so not quite 50% more, but close. however, i rarely see sorcs use all they have, and i rarely ever run out of sps on my wiz.

[Arianrhod]

My take would be - start with a wizard, and think about how you're playing it. If you find yourself not only scribing every spell, but switching them out every quest to get just the right mix for the circumstances, stick with the wiz. If you find yourself picking a set of generically useful spells and rarely changing them (or really dislike taking the time to keep switching them out), you would probably be happier with a sorc.

[shores11]

Ok, your wizard has 1650. I know sorcs that top 2500. How is that not 50% more?

Yes, they have casting speed.

And yes... they have more UMD with the charisma synergy. And it's a lot more than +4 unless you have about a 28 charisma. Is your wizard a splash class and takes UMD as a class skill, because I don't think that's quite a fair comparison.

I also know of wizards that have 1800+ spell points. My point is that a lot of players that are so pro sorcerer always tend to say things like the wizard is a starter class for being a mage or as in this thread a sorcerer is an upgrade.

My wizard is a pure level 16 wizard, all of my characters are pure class builds. My sorcerer is also a pure class build and yes his UMD is +4 higher than my wizard.

I wouldn't state or says things that I do not know. So the comparison is fair I think. I find actually that the sorcerer is a starter class type for casters because of the fact that there are lesss spells to choose from, faster casting, more spell points. The wizard class is just as powerful as a sorcerer in regards to specs or spell penetration and maybe even better since they have more feat options.

For the player that enjoys a challenge the wizard is the way to go.

[shores11]

max for wiz is around 1850 for an elf wiz, 1810 for a wf. i think sorcs can max around 2600, so not quite 50% more, but close. however, i rarely see sorcs use all they have, and i rarely ever run out of sps on my wiz.

I agree Wizzly, I rarely run out of spell points on my wizard at 1650 spell points either. I just like playing a wizard more than my sorcerer because I find the wizard more fun and challenging.

[IgorUnchained]

I just rolled a Halfling Wizard (dragonmarked).

I chose Wizard because this is my first caster....I dont even have more than a splash of cleric. I do play alot of bards, but I needed a change of pace.

My two cents? Go Wizard.
All of my spell-friendly friends say that they love their Wizard toons but have a hard time going back to it because of the Sorcerers "perks". That said....they all know which spells do which and when to use them now. They suggested that I take Wizard so I can learn ALL of the spells before I am limited to how many I have.

Do you want a few spells and alot of SP, or do you want alot of spells and less SP?
I made my choice and I am happy with it. I have done alot of soloing with my toon and I wouldnt have made it through some quests with just the two spells you start off with as a Sorc (no matter how many SP I would have had). The versatility of being able to switch out spells on the fly (for free) sure beats having to wait 3 days to change out ONE spell (for money). Lastly, if you dont know what Ooze Puppet or Spawn Screen do (like me)....I think a Wizard would be the right choice.

Just my take from my limited experience.

[Stealthbr]

While rolling a Wizard to know and understand all the spells can be a good idea, all you need to do is go to the forums and read up on which spells are needed for end-game and you will do well with a sorcerer. The thing is, I find that the strengths of a wizard lies in his ability to be optimal in any encounter. Therefore, I believe a newbie should play the sorcerer first in order to get used to spell casting then roll a wizard, which I consider a far more complex caster. Also, a sorcerer has a lot of room for error with the huge amounts of spell points avaiable to him. A good wizard will always be changing his spells because different quests provide different challenges where some spells are more optimal than others.

Wizard Advantages: Much more diverse spell selection, a lot more skill points, synergy with WF race, bonus feats.

Sorcerer Advantages: Fast casting, More SP, synergy with Paladin, synergy with UMD

[Memnir]

I would make a Wizard first to get a handle on what the spells do, which spells are best suited for which situations, agro management, and the chance to dabble in the metamagics. After you have a high level Wizard, make a Sorcerer and apply all the lessons you learned with your Wiz. I have a level capped Wizard, and a 15th level Sorcerer... and I'll be totally honest when I say the Sorcerer is a lot more fun to play. It is very very hard to go back to playing the Wizard: it feels like I cast in slow motion, which is irksome.

In my opinion, a Sorc with a solid spell selection can trump a Wizard in almost any situation. The only exception would be the ability to carry spells/feats with a more limited situational use at whim - which is where the Wizard shines. But, the faster casting and massive spell-point boost more than makes up for the loss of spell flexibility, so long as you chose your spells and Feats wisely.

[CrimsonEagle]

Another point for wizards is that they also get more feats which is a plus.

I have a 16 WF sorc and the to hit on the char is overblown. WF sorcs are fine.

Right now I am begining a little WF wizard. It is a little adjustment, but I LOVE the ability to swap out spells at will.

Both are viable and both are fun.

Shores11, I am curious as to how your UMD is only 4 points lower on your wizard.

[Natalae]

Go Wizard if u want depth, skill pts, feats, depth...go sorc if u want point and click. Wizards are the bomb, with all the skill points u can invest with skills like balance, move silently, and not be such an arcane gimp. Sure a mana pool that is large is nice but the difference end game is marginal at best. Leave the nub sorcs alone and laugh while they fail balance checks.

[gHzSWB]

So then what do you guys say, in a sentence, the "style" is for each - Sorc and Wizzy?