Capstone enhancement concerns

[Mhykke]

so what about pulling from my monk or my rouge? the point was that there are other ways of pulling agro. quite frankly I'm betting that the fighter fully spec for intimidate still would be hard pressed to hold the agro against my barb if he isn't doing much damage. If im not mistaken intimidate only holds the agro for a few seconds.

They changed intimidate. Works for 6 seconds, and it's on a 6 second cooldown, so you can keep spamming it and hold it. Sometimes it bugs and the mob turns away, but generally can intimidate mobs all day long if you want.

[Dexxaan]

IMO it comes down to playing smart, and smart I would define as making good use of the Paladin Intimidate/Aggro resources in the 6 man party. As an example.

If there´s a Rogue or 2 in the Party, then let the paladin get in there mix it up and Intim-Turtle (Turtleing is good when your AC is High...but not Very High) at which point the Rogue(s) and Barbarian, etc can simply Cleave and mop up the Trash Mobs in less than the 6 seconds that the Paladin has Intimidated.

On the other Hand when the Paladin is in a 3 Barbarian/Fighter Party then it´s almost a free for all, since most Barbarians I´ve played with over 2 years simply run and kill before you arrive.

On red and purple named Mobs - definitely worth reviewing what you have available. Why? I Personally like killing the mobs, but without a huge waste of resources (Spell Points, Scrolls, Etc) so that you always have something left and you aren´t drained to continue.

In the end completion is achieved by any group, but how it´s done and with how many resources left.....thats the only challenge left nowadays.

[Mhykke]

in The End Completion Is Achieved By Any Group, But How It´s Done And With How Many Resources Left.....thats The Only Challenge Left Nowadays.

Qft

[Hanza]

What are Paladins Intimidating people for anyway?
It just not very Paladin like. lol

[Mhykke]

What are Paladins Intimidating people for anyway?
It just not very Paladin like. lol

How is it not paladin like to save your party mates from damage, and focusing it on you?

[Dexxaan]

Think pregnant peasant lady chased by Orthon.... Paladin says something corny like "Halt in the name of....."


Thats Intimidate.

Best served with a 6 Pack by your keyboard.

[Ryavin]

Best thread ever!!!

[elraido]

Think pregnant peasant lady chased by Orthon.... Paladin says something corny like "Halt in the name of....."


Thats Intimidate.

Best served with a 6 Pack by your keyboard.

My Paladin in PnP just stomps on baby kobalds.....

[Dexxaan]

My Paladin in PnP just stomps on baby kobalds.....

Not relevant to the matter at hand. (Actually we have deviated from he OP a bit)

But thanks for the bump.

P.S: Some baby kobolds wear spiked school caps....be careful.

[sephiroth1084]

I just had an idea!

While I like Borro's Diplo-split idea very much, I have yet to see a dev response on the notion, which leads me to assume that they are not going to consider it. On to my new idea:

What if (as a solution for paladins anyway) Divine Righteousness was altered so that, when a paladin with DR activated strikes a foe, it causes a small (smaller than intimidate's area) AoE taunt, that affects monsters around the enemy hit, rather than just that singular target? This would allow paladins to grab the aggro of multiple creatures, but would see them functioning in a different way than fighters. Paladins would have to remain on the offensive, while fighters would be more prone to turtling up? Seem a bit of a role reversal, but I think this could be a solid change. It would mean that paladins who wanted to be aggro magnets should lead the charge into a fight (there's that high-Cha, leadership, inspiration thing going on...). No idea how this would function exactly, though, for starters, the "pull" mechanism needs to be rethought so that paladins have an equal or near-equal chance of grabbing aggro.

Another option would be to turn Divine Righteousness into a straight-up AoE taunt with longer-lasting effect than intimidate has.

As for a paladin capstone...I cannot imagine anything that could be shoehorned into levels 19 and 20 to compare favorably with a 1-2 level fighter splash. Just look at how much you get out of those 2 levels:
-Haste Boost
-Tower Shield Prof. (a 3rd bonus feat basically)
-Tower Shield Mastery I
-2 bonus feats
-Intimidate as a class skill
-Jump as a class skill
-Fighter's Strength I
-Fighter's Intimidate I

What can be added to equal all of that? Honestly, the capstone should be something unique that adds something to a pure-classed character. Something that is not replicable by any other means (the +10 Concentration monks are getting doesn't fit the bill, but the Ki regen does, somewhat). Whatever it is, it should be cool and powerful and significant.

[Stealthbr]

As for a paladin capstone...I cannot imagine anything that could be shoehorned into levels 19 and 20 to compare favorably with a 1-2 level fighter splash. Just look at how much you get out of those 2 levels:
-Tower Shield Mastery I

Sadly, this enhancement is only avaible for level 3 Fighters.

[sephiroth1084]

Sadly, this enhancement is only avaible for level 3 Fighters.

Whoops. I had thought armor mastery and shield mastery were at different levels, my bad. Been a while since I was that low on the totem pole.

[Angelus_dead]

As for a paladin capstone...I cannot imagine anything that could be shoehorned into levels 19 and 20 to compare favorably with a 1-2 level fighter splash.

Paladin levels 19 and 20 increase your number of level 4 spells from 1 to 3. If there were 3 valuable level 3 spells, then there'd be a reason to take paladin levels 19 and 20.

Currently DDO has no valuable level 4 paladin spells (Deathward is the closest, but it's obsolete when every cleric has MDW). However, if the devs do it right it would be easy to add spells so that paladins would really value the extra slots.

Following are just a few level4 pally spells from the D&D books that would be easy to add:
Draconic Might: +5 to str, +con, cha, natural armor (self)
Sacred Haven: +2 AC (mass)
Seed of Life: target heals 4 hp/3 sec for 90 sec

These would be a little harder to program, but still not too bad:
Aligned Aura (good): allies near you get +1 saves, enemies get -1 attacks
Aligned Aura (law): allies near you get +1 AC, enemies get -1 damage

The developers should strive to add enough useful spells so that every spell level for every class has enough choices that players will need to make a real choice about which ones they leave out.

[Borror0]

The developers should strive to add enough useful spells so that every spell level for every class has enough choices that players will need to make a real choice about which ones they leave out.

Exactly! By adding good spells, it makes spell slots more attractive and thus makes more levels of rangers or paladins more attractive.

[vtecfiend99]

Currently DDO has no valuable level 4 paladin spells.

???really???

I know there aren't MANY useful spells but this and this are pretty good and fairly useful to anyone who has them...

[Angelus_dead]

I know there aren't MANY useful spells but this and this are pretty good and fairly useful to anyone who has them...

Yes, I had forgotten that Zeal is out now. The Holy Sword spell doesn't count because it doesn't use up a slot (you cast it once per day in a tavern, then replace with something else before starting a dungeon). Plus, of course, Holy Sword is obsolete for anyone with a Mineral2 weapon.

Note that the Restoration and Deathward spells are useful but not valuable, because there are many other ways to get the same benefits.

[Borror0]

Note that the Restoration and Deathward spells are useful but not valuable, because there are many other ways to get the same benefits.

Especially Restoration that you cast cast from scrolls at level 12 or UMD.

[vtecfiend99]

Yes, I had forgotten that Zeal is out now. The Holy Sword spell doesn't count because it doesn't use up a slot (you cast it once per day in a tavern, then replace with something else before starting a dungeon). Plus, of course, Holy Sword is obsolete for anyone with a Mineral2 weapon.

Note that the Restoration and Deathward spells are useful but not valuable, because there are many other ways to get the same benefits.

Forgot you could do that with holy sword... guess i should roll a pally before i talk about them lol.

I agree that pally/ranger/bard spells are in need of some love. pally first tho lol. There are so many cool spells out there they could have...


makes you worry about druid spells huh? that they will all be a rehash of current spells and no unique druid spells. I would rahter that they give them unique spells and LEAVE OFF some of the others that are already in game.