What alignment was Robin Hood?

[Korvek]

So we started a discussion regarding alignment in another thread and tracked onto Robin Hood ... and some say lawful, some chaotic ... what are your thoughts?

Chaotic Good.

He intentionally made efforts to upset the natural order, however these efforts were attempts to aid others and better their lives.

[Wizzly_Bear]

From what I remember, he did not have any qualms about breaking laws, but did not specifically desire to break them either, so neutral. And I think all can agree that he sought to help others = Neutral Good.

[BoundByChains]

Lawful Good, He did what he thought was right, and did it consistantly

Doing what HE thinks is good would qualify as Chaotic Good, would it not? Possibly Neutral Good.
But not lawful. He did, afterall, steal.

[EKKM]

From what I remember, he did not have any qualms about breaking laws, but did not specifically desire to break them either, so neutral. And I think all can agree that he sought to help others = Neutral Good.

Being chaotic doesnt mean you desire to break laws, it means that you don't like them and won't follow them if you can get away with it. If a law doesn't inconvienience you, you will follow it. Lawful means that you will follow most laws or have a strong personal code. Neutral falls somewhere in between, ie. will speed on the highway, download music but not rob from the rich to give to the poor.

Of course all of this is my opinion so I can see your, and other POV.

EDIT: Just to get a classic alignment flamewar started someone should start a thread: "If a Paladin kills a baby to save a thousand people, has he committed an evil act?"

[BattleCircle]

Maybe I am confused

As I interpret alignment

Lawfull = always doing the same thing, or consistence

Chaotic = rarely or never reacting the same way to a given situation, inconsistence

Nuetral = really don't give a **** as long as it suits me

[Milolyen]

It could actually be looked at many different ways for Robin Hood.

King Richard had laws set up when he went away to war. Upon returning from the war Robin Hood found that his kings laws where being changed and suited to meet the new "lawmakers" needs and he faught them. So in that respect you could consider him to be lawfull as he was correcting the wrongs while his king was away.

But then a lawfull person is supposed to obey the laws of the land no matter what. The king was away and the person he intrusted the land to had created new laws and he did not uphold those laws so that says chaotic.

Personally I see him as being neutral good. If the laws where just then he followed them. If the laws where unjust then he did not.

Batman on the other hand I see as being Chaotic Good. He works totally outside the law in order to bring criminal's to justice. A lawfull person would join the police force or become a public defender and fight criminals to the best of his abilities as law allows. Nuetral would well be hard to say but see them more as a hard nose cop. The ones that try to do it withen the system but sometimes go outside it to get the job done. Batman I would put as Chaotic as he is pretty much always fighting outside of the law.

So in short I see the difference between Robin Hood and Batman is that Robin Hood was fighting against corrupt lawmakers ... if they where not corrupt he would not have been fighting them and Batman is fighting criminals outside of the laws that govern the society.

Milolyen

[wamjratl1]

Well, ok, if being Chaotic is your lawset, then yes, you're Lawful Good.

Whoa. Deep.



My head hurts.

[Kistilan]

I just did varying searches for alignments in D&D terminology across the Interwebs.

And in some instances they agreed with me. In some instances they contradicted themselves.

I think even wiki could have it wrong. The only proper thing to do would be citing sources (such as wiki did) in context of Dungeons and Dragons Text, as opposed to citing it in other sources.

I've also scoured a few of my sourcebooks and none of them seem to be too revealing on whether one alignment assumption of Robinhood is correct. Most have pointed towards Chaotic Good or Neutral Good in Robinhood's case, although the example in Dungeons & Dragons 2nd Edit: Dungeon Master's Guide also points towards Lawful Good for Robinhood.

I don't think the texts have ever truly been cannonized and change regularly with the edition and editors.

[BattleCircle]

I just did varying searches for alignments in D&D terminology across the Interwebs.

And in some instances they agreed with me. In some instances they contradicted themselves.

I think even wiki could have it wrong. The only proper thing to do would be citing sources (such as wiki did) in context of Dungeons and Dragons Text, as opposed to citing it in other sources.

I've also scoured a few of my sourcebooks and none of them seem to be too revealing on whether one alignment assumption of Robinhood is correct. Most have pointed towards Chaotic Good or Neutral Good in Robinhood's case, although the example in Dungeons & Dragons 2nd Edit: Dungeon Master's Guide also points towards Lawful Good for Robinhood.

I don't think the texts have ever truly been cannonized and change regularly with the edition and editors.

Peacekeeper

[Hafeal]

Who would have thought it would be hard to reach any consensus on this ...

I guess this alignment thing is pretty fuzzy.

[Wizzly_Bear]

Being chaotic doesnt mean you desire to break laws,

yes it does

it means that you don't like them and won't follow them if you can get away with it. If a law doesn't inconvienience you, you will follow it.

that is neutral

evil is antithetical to good, it is anti-good. chaotic is the same against lawful.

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

It seems to me that the greatest confusion is on the definitions of Lawful and Chaotic as alignments. They do not mean consistency or inconsistency. Here's the SRD definition:

Lawful characters tell the truth, keep their word, respect authority, honor tradition, and judge those who fall short of their duties. Chaotic characters follow their consciences, resent being told what to do, favor new ideas over tradition, and do what they promise if they feel like it.

“Law” implies honor, trustworthiness, obedience to authority, and reliability. On the downside, lawfulness can include close-mindedness, reactionary adherence to tradition, judgmentalness, and a lack of adaptability. Those who consciously promote lawfulness say that only lawful behavior creates a society in which people can depend on each other and make the right decisions in full confidence that others will act as they should.

“Chaos” implies freedom, adaptability, and flexibility. On the downside, chaos can include recklessness, resentment toward legitimate authority, arbitrary actions, and irresponsibility. Those who promote chaotic behavior say that only unfettered personal freedom allows people to express themselves fully and lets society benefit from the potential that its individuals have within them.

Someone who is neutral with respect to law and chaos has a normal respect for authority and feels neither a compulsion to obey nor a compulsion to rebel. She is honest but can be tempted into lying or deceiving others.

Devotion to law or chaos may be a conscious choice, but more often it is a personality trait that is recognized rather than being chosen. Neutrality on the lawful–chaotic axis is usually simply a middle state, a state of not feeling compelled toward one side or the other. Some few such neutrals, however, espouse neutrality as superior to law or chaos, regarding each as an extreme with its own blind spots and drawbacks.

Specifically relating to Robin Hood are respect for authority (or lack thereof), adaptability, flexibility...

IMO, there really isn't much of a question--Robin Hood seems to be the quintessential Chaotic Good character (he even surrounded himself with a group of "Merry Men" made up of outlawed yeomen):

Chaotic Good, “Rebel”: A chaotic good character acts as his conscience directs him with little regard for what others expect of him. He makes his own way, but he’s kind and benevolent. He believes in goodness and right but has little use for laws and regulations. He hates it when people try to intimidate others and tell them what to do. He follows his own moral compass, which, although good, may not agree with that of society.

[EKKM]

yes it does


that is neutral

evil is antithetical to good, it is anti-good. chaotic is the same against lawful.

From the 3.5 SRD:
Law Vs. Chaos
Lawful characters tell the truth, keep their word, respect authority, honor tradition, and judge those who fall short of their duties.

Chaotic characters follow their consciences, resent being told what to do, favor new ideas over tradition, and do what they promise if they feel like it.

"Law" implies honor, trustworthiness, obedience to authority, and reliability. On the downside, lawfulness can include close-mindedness, reactionary adherence to tradition, judgmentalness, and a lack of adaptability. Those who consciously promote lawfulness say that only lawful behavior creates a society in which people can depend on each other and make the right decisions in full confidence that others will act as they should.

"Chaos" implies freedom, adaptability, and flexibility. On the downside, chaos can include recklessness, resentment toward legitimate authority, arbitrary actions, and irresponsibility. Those who promote chaotic behavior say that only unfettered personal freedom allows people to express themselves fully and lets society benefit from the potential that its individuals have within them.




Don't see where it says all or most chaotic characters have a desire to break laws, only that they value freedom and don't feel compelled to follow laws.

The extreme examples of law, chaos, good and evil in DnD where there is a strong desire to promote that alignment archtype, say Chaos, are generally reserved for dieties, their followers or extra-planar creatures. Most of the population defines one of the alignment spectrums as you or I would.


Edit: Guildmaster beat me to the SRD quote.

[shores11]

Doesn't this really belong in Off-Topic Discussion? Just sayin'...

Ummm, this is in the off-topic discussion did you review the thread line?

I agree that Robin Hood would be Neutral Good.

[Valiance]

I don't think it could be any clearer that he is Chaotic Good.

He is an "outlaw" who does what he does for good. I repeat "outlaw" i.e. against the law. I.e. against lawful.

Chaotic Good

[Wizzly_Bear]

[snip]

you're arguing that he is chaotic based off a snippet of his experience and ignoring important parts. he does care what others think of him, does not act arbitrarily, and is not irresponsible.

he formed a whole society...how can one say that he is irresponsible or has no concern for regulations?

he acted consistently over time....how can one say that he acts arbitrarily?

[Wizzly_Bear]

I don't think it could be any clearer that he is Chaotic Good.

He is an "outlaw" who does what he does for good. I repeat "outlaw" i.e. against the law. I.e. against lawful.

Chaotic Good

but he is not against all law. for the part of his life that you are thinking of he is acting CG, but he is at heart NG.

[TreknaQudane]

I'd label Robin Hood as Chaotic Good and in Batman Lawful Good.

[Leyoni]

From the DDO character creation screen

A creature's general moral and personal attitudes are represented by its alignment. Lawful characters tell the truth, keep their word, respect authority, and honor tradition. Chaotic characters follow their consciences, resent being told what to do, favor new ideas over tradition, and do what they have promised if they feel like it.

Robin does not always tell the truth nor does he always keep his word. He is not respectful of authority (except perhaps that of King Richard) but he does seem to honor tradition. He is scarcely Lawful in DDO terms.

Robin does follow his conscience and doesn't like being told what to do. It isn't accurate to say he favors new ideas over tradition but he does prefer rebellion to obeying and suffering until the rightful King returns. He definitely keeps his promises when he feels like it (although that is more often than not -- provided you don't associate with King John and his faction). Robin most certainly is Chaotic in DDO terms.

Because his side wins in the end and gets to write the history and thus define which side was good and which was not, Robin is certainly good.

Thus, Robin Hood is Chaotic Good.

[Tanka]

Ummm, this is in the off-topic discussion did you review the thread line?

It wasn't when the thread was made.