TWF build question

[Gabrion]

I'm thinking about making a tempest battlecaster. The level breakdown (pre-18 cap) would be sorc 10/ranger 6, with two more sorc levels added when the cap increases.

My question here is how crucial GTWF is for TWF builds. If I were to ignore that feat I can dump DEX to focus on other stats and still have ITWF thx to ranger bonus feats. If DPS TWF builds are really really lacking without GTWF though I will obviously have to invest in a fair amount of DEX.

I'm looking for people who have a lot of experience with TWF to weigh in here on the importance of the third feat in that line. Thanks!

[hydra_ex]

I'm thinking about making a tempest battlecaster. The level breakdown (pre-18 cap) would be sorc 10/ranger 6, with two more sorc levels added when the cap increases.

My question here is how crucial GTWF is for TWF builds. If I were to ignore that feat I can dump DEX to focus on other stats and still have ITWF thx to ranger bonus feats. If DPS TWF builds are really really lacking without GTWF though I will obviously have to invest in a fair amount of DEX.

I'm looking for people who have a lot of experience with TWF to weigh in here on the importance of the third feat in that line. Thanks!

Well... normally, you would get 4 attacks (5 with divine power/tensers/madstone). While TWFing, you get one extra attack. iTWF gives you 2 extra attacks, for a grand total of 6 (7 with [...]). gTWF gives you one extra attack. Thats 17% more attacks! Now, because your last offhand attack will be your weakest (only half your str for all offhands, and lowest to hit too), youll be getting 10% more damage minimum. So, with those 10 points (if you have a +1 DEX tome... which you should or 8 points if you have a +2 DEX tome), you could increase your STR, CON or CHA a tiny bit more. Since you'll generally be (please say you had wf in mind) self healing, you wont need that many hitpoints. Which leaves you to your CHA and STR. With a higher STR, you can hit more and deal more damage, be it only by 1 to-hit/dmg (16-18 difference). If you want to be melee oriented, I would definitely go for gTWF, if you want to be more caster like, drop it. If you're somewhere in the middle, which no doubt you are, you probably should take gTWF, though it still it slightly viable without it.

Also, next cap is 20, and do not make a non-DEX based, non-full ranger, tempest build until you get your 32-pt.

[Angelus_dead]

I'm thinking about making a tempest battlecaster. The level breakdown (pre-18 cap) would be sorc 10/ranger 6, with two more sorc levels added when the cap increases.

Why do you want to do something so silly?

If you want to be a sorc who occasionally hits stuff with weapons, be sorc14/pal2 or fig2 or something, and use a nice two-hand greataxe.

My question here is how crucial GTWF is for TWF builds.

It's crucial, but other things are crucial too, and it doesn't look like you'll have them either. Like hitpoints, strength, damage, and even BAB.

GTWF requires dex 17 and BAB 11. Ran6/Sor10 has BAB 6+5=11. But you didn't have BAB 11 back when you got your latest feat slot, so no GTWF for you.

I'm looking for people who have a lot of experience with TWF to weigh in here on the importance of the third feat in that line. Thanks!

If you don't have experience with TWF, why do you want to do such a funny build? Anyway, the answer is that GTWF is pointless is your BAB is 9 or less, and obligatory if it's 10 or more. (You'll notice a funny thing: GTWF is obligatory at BAB10, but you don't qualify for it at BAB 10. That demonstrates that the game design is flawed. TWF characters need to stop using TWF when they hit BAB10 and start again once they have GTWF)

[Gabrion]

Also, next cap is 20, and do not make a non-DEX based, non-full ranger, tempest build until you get your 32-pt.

Wait does that mean the cap is already at 18?

[Angelus_dead]

Wait does that mean the cap is already at 18?

It means they'll raise the level by +4 the next time they raise it.

[Angelus_dead]

Well... normally, you would get 4 attacks (5 with divine power/tensers/madstone). While TWFing, you get one extra attack. iTWF gives you 2 extra attacks, for a grand total of 6 (7 with [...]). gTWF gives you one extra attack.

No. TWF is +1 attacks, or +2 if you have BAB 15. ITWF is +1. GTWF is +2.

The sequence is:
THF: 1,1,1,1,1
TWF: 1,2,1,1,2
ITWF: 1,2,2,1,2
GTWF: 2,2,2,2,2

[maddmatt70]

Gabrion, 6 ranger 14 caster is an interesting build. 10 caster 6 ranger is less interesting however and has even more glaring weaknesses. Why have 10 caster levels at all is my question on the 10/6 build. The question for me is why do you want tempest so bad and why build a sorcerer instead of a wizard. Wizard has so many more feats for twf and if you go for tempest with those 3 required feats on a sorcerer it is even more strained.

In regards to twf melee arcane builds you could go with a 14 wiz/1 barbarian/1 fighter and when the cap goes up to 20 at mod 9 make a 17 wiz/1 barbarian/2 fighter and have gtwf and 9th level spells or the 14 wiz/ 2 monk can get a very high ac with itwf and insightful reflexes for evasion and then at level 20 either go 16 wiz / 2 monk/2 fighter or 18 wiz 2 monk depending on whether you want 9th level spells or gtwf. Just some other build options for twf melee arcane.

I understand why a long time battle arcane would want to roll up another twf battle arcane. The game is just so slanted toward two weapon fighting at the moment, but I question the build choice.

[Gabrion]

Thanks for the replies about the actually TWF attack chain, that was what I was looking for.

As for the build, trust me when I say I've got the rest covered. I appreciate you folks looking out for me by calling attention to the possible pitfalls of a battlecaster, but I've got the rest of it under control, just needed the TWF info. Thanks again.