Helpful Suggestions or Modifications for Duo?

[Girevik]

Goal:
Create a duo of characters that are capable of fully exploring the low- mid- level quests (up to 6th or so) and eventually participating as a contributing part of larger groups for later quests.

Restriction/Parameters:
Player A (my friend) is a new player to the game who has 28-point builds and Drow available for play. He has also expressed a desire to play a "Ranger". Player B (myself) is a more experienced player who has both 32-point builds and Drow available. He is willing to play anything that will work, but hasn't tried a "Bard" before and is leaning that way. Both players are going to be very casual about time spent with the characters, so we are looking at a slow level progression.

Initial Proposal:
Player A will play a Dwarf Ranger "Scout" (w/ some Fighter). Player B will play a Drow Bard (with an early Rogue level or two for Trap/Lock smithing and Evasion). This will allow the new player to lead the way scouting out the "to him" unfamiliar quests.

Dwarf Ranger (/Fighter) "Scout"
Str: 16 + Level-ups + Item + Ftr Enh.
Int: 8 (dump)
Wis: 14 + Item
Con: 14 + Item + Dwf Enhs.
Dex: 14 + Item + Rng Enhs.
Cha: 6 (dump)

Level/Class Progression:
1-5 Ranger, 6 Fighter, 7 Ranger, 8 Fighter, 9+ Ranger

Skills:
6 - 1 = 5 Skill Points per Ranger Level
2 - 1 = 1 Skill Point per Fighter Level
At First: +4 to Spot, Hide, Move Silently, Jump, & Concentration
Progression: Keep Spot at max, spread additional points between Hide, Move Silently, Jump, Balance(cc), & Tumble(cc).

Feats:
Character Feats at 1, 3, and 6: Toughness, Dodge, and Mobility
Fighter Feat at 6: Spring Attack
Fighter Feat at 8: Improved Critical: Slashing
Character Feats at 9, 12, and 15: Select to suit playstyle, possibilities include Power Attack, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, Mental Toughness, Archery Feats, …

Favored Enemies:
Undead, Giants, & Evil Outsiders

Enhancements:
Tempest (obviously), Fighter Str 1, Ranger Dex 1&2, Dwarven Toughness 1-4, Dwarven Con 1&2, Dwarven Armor Masteries, Axe Attack, etc. (play by ear based on gear and preferences).


Drow Bard (/Rogue) "Sapper"
Str: 10 + Item
Int: 16 + Item (when Searching or Disabling)
Wis: 8 + Item
Con: 12 + Item
Dex: 16 + Item + Drow & Rog Enhs.
Cha: 17 + Level-ups + Item + Bard Enhs.

Level/Class Progression:
1 Rogue, 2 Bard, 3 Rogue, & 4+ Bard.

Skills:
8 + 3 = 11 Skill Points per Rogue Level
6 + 3 = 9 Skill Point per Bard Level
At First (Rogue): +4 to Balance, Disable Device, Haggle, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Open Lock, Search, Spot, Tumble & Use Magic Device
At Second (Bard): +5 to Perform, +4 to Concentration
At Third (Rogue): +1 to Balance, +2 each to Disable Device, Haggle, Open Lock, Search, & Use Magic Device
At Fourth (Bard): +2 to Perform, +1 each to Concentration, Disable Device(cc), Haggle, Search(cc), & Use Magic Device
At Fifth and onwards (Bard): +1 each to Concentration, Disable Device(cc), Open Lock(cc), Perform, Search(cc), & Use Magic Device

Feats:
Character Feats at 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, and 15: Skill Focus: UMD, Weapon Finesse, Mental Toughness, Spell Focus: Enchantment, Extend?, Force of Personality? (play later feats by ear)

Enhancements:
Spell Singer (& prerequisites), Rogue Dex 1, Bard Char 1&2, Drow Dex 1&2, Wand, Healing, & Spell Point Boosters, ... (play by ear based on gear and preferences).

[Premier]

You have some very workable ideas.

I know it's very common but try splashing in some Paladin in that Ranger build for the AC and saves benefit for the both of you if you plan on duoing successfully. Dwarf is a good choice. Maybe drop the WIS to a 12 instead of a 14.

The Bard / Rogue mix can work but I found it's tough to make him do everything, especially for duoing. Try a WIZ / ROG; say 15/1 or 14/2. I know they have been done before but it's definitely workable.

If you want to go with Bard then try lowering your initial dex score (maybe a 10 or 12?) and put those points into strength or con. That way you can get into battle more and help out your buddy with melee. Definitely rock Sound Burst alot if you plan on playing a Bard. Also try considering Human instead of Drow; humans can get an extra +2 to CHA through enhancements and 1 extra skill point / level!!

I just got my brother to play and he's been leveling up a cleric. I can't wait until he can group with my higher level characters because I'd love to try duoing some higher level quests. I hope you and your friend have a good time, peace!

-Premier

[richieelias27]

Try Dwarf cleric 14 rogue 2 instead of rogue/bard

All the healing/CC and more plus you'll never fail a search check again. This also allows you to tank if you bring your INT high enough to keep Disable/Search maxed along with intimidate (class skill with rogue). Just be sure to grab quicken if you go that route. I'd shoot for 16 wis, 16 int, 12 dex and dump the rest into CON.

[Girevik]

Well, I do have 32-point builds open for the support character... but Drow just looks so good.

The way I have it spec'd above:
Str: 10
Int: 16
Wis: 8
Con: 12
Dex: 16
Cha: 17
Point Cost as Drow: 2 + 6 + 0 + 6 + 6 + 8 = 28
Point Cost if Human: 2 + 10 + 0 + 4 + 10 + 13 = 39 OUCH!

It is really hard for me to pass up that kind of a bargain, especially since Int, Cha, (and Dex) will be used for key skills.

I also like the lightly armored Bard getting the Evasion from the second level of Rogue.


I already have a Dwarven Cleric, though I do have to admit, he doesn't play anything like a:
Str: 8
Int: 16
Wis: 16
Con: 15
Dex: 12
Cha: 6
IntimiCleric would. (Hmm, 5 skill points per level wouldn't allow me to keep three cross class skills maxed.)


I think I am pretty well set on the Crowd Control and Buffing Bard. I am waffling on Weapon Finesse and an effects weapon, such as Curse-spewing, etc, or standing back with a Repeating Crossbow. Standing back sounds like a good idea with his miniscule hit points, but what if things come up to him?

[Premier]

Use the Hypnotism spell on all the mobs that come at you if you're playing a Bard. It's one of my favorite spells! I prefer it better than Sound Burst because of the longer duration; but Sound Burst is a very useful spell. A 6 sec Sound Burst is great if you can fight in the thick of things. Just my opinion from experience. Peace!

-Premier

[Dirac]

I don't see why the Bard is taking the rogue level. Let the ranger be the trap smith. Go with Grenfell's round mound of astound for the ranger. Keep the Bard pure. Bards have precious few spell points. Any extra classes hurt that, as well as when you get your spells, as well as your BAB. All of which are going to make a big difference if you are leveling slowly.

2 levels of rogue make the problem even worse. I don't think rogue/bard synergize very well. In the bulk of time, you are essentially gong to be questing as a Bard 2 levels down.

[Girevik]

Hypnotism sounds like a winner. I was also eyeing Otto's.

Both Hypno and Otto's are Will-based saves to negate, but Otto's is single target. Does it have anything, such as duration, to help balance that versus Hypo? (Other than the great dancing effect?)

Is it: Hypno = wake up when hit? Otto's = Dance until you drop?


P.S. I think I am leaning towards the Repeater.

[Girevik]

I don't see why the Bard is taking the rogue level. Let the ranger be the trap smith. Go with Grenfell's round mound of astound for the ranger. Keep the Bard pure. Bards have precious few spell points. Any extra classes hurt that, as well as when you get your spells, as well as your BAB. All of which are going to make a big difference if you are leveling slowly.

2 levels of rogue make the problem even worse. I don't think rogue/bard synergize very well. In the bulk of time, you are essentially gong to be questing as a Bard 2 levels down.

If he had 32-point builds I might agree, but the Int requirement for Trap-smithing puts quite a stretch on a 28-pointer.

You may be right about the slow progression on the Bard. I had an Elven Ranger2/Bard3 that I deleted years ago after the released Drow, and I remember how slow the spell progression seemed. I am better versed on what items can do for you, and with quivers, I am ready to give it another try. I have seen plenty of effective Bards with a splash level or two, so it must be possible some how.

[Premier]

Use Otto's on single trolls / orges and Hypnotism on masses of Kobolds. Once you hit something hypnotized they'll awaken but it's great for taking a 30 sec break for healing then peeling them off one at a time. Use Fascinate for a longer duration of cc.

I've been working on a strong duo build with my brother and we came up with:

Me: Dwarf Warchanter 15 Bard / 1 Fighter
Him: Dwarf Barbarian 14 Barbarian / 2 Fighter

We both have high str and con plus the benefits of Bard songs and buffs. Going Dwarf gives us both a heafty set of HP. The Warchanter won't be using much cc like my max charisma Drow bard does but the Warchanter can take a beating and give one too!! His cc will be killing things.

We're only lvl 2 (doesn't say too much sorry) but I'm thinking this will work out well for a duo. Having a Barbarian and a Warchanter is almost like having 2 Barbarians and 1 Bard in the group, essentially 3 characters for the price of 2! I'll definitely have to carry around a resist wand but that's no big deal. We'll have to run through traps but we should have the HP to get by. I've been on a warchanter kick recently; I'll try to post more info when we get to higher levels. Have fun, peace!

-Premier

[Artierius]

I think you be good with what you got up there...

However, I would go 12 Ranger / 2 Ftr / 2 Mnk for him...get evasion early...and have 2 more feats and better saves as well. This will also allow him to have a higher net AC later if he gets the gear for it.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=149628

Adjust stats for a 28pt build....go 16 str and the other 2 points in INT for more skillpoints or CHA maybe if you like intimidate or CON for more HP's.

And for you a 32pt Human 15brd / 1 Rge

Str - 16 +1 Human / +1 tome / +6 item = 24
Int - 14 +1 Human / +1 tome / +6 item = 22
Wis - 8
Dex - 10
Con - 12 +6 item / +2 favor tome = 20
Cha - 16 +6 item / +3 Brd / +4 level / +3 tome (way down the road) = 32

Higher str will get you through low to mid levels faster and easier / while high Cha will get you to the big games still as a Spellsinger.

Human will let you get Human Vers. IV for those tougher traps and such...as well as UMD bursts. Also will net you more Skillpoints overall (19 more) And ofcourse that 1 more feat can get you maybe Khopesh for awhile...until you don't need to attack anymore at high levels than swap it out for something else.
You will hurt your Spell progression alittle ..but later levels 17-20 will get you back there. There's always alittle give and take with multi-classing. A better splash is Sorc...for more SP....but I know you want rogue skills for the Duo.

Could always let him splash 1 rogue instead of monk....and go 13/2/1 and still get to 15 Ranger at next level up for that new Favored Enemy. Or just go 15Ranger / 1 Rogue...this will get him what you need as well.

Anyway, enjoy and hope this helps you out.....:]

[sirgog]

I'd suggest, given that you have 32 point builds, going a Dwarf Warchanter bard (maxxed Str, only moderate Cha, buff self and party then run amok playstyle).

Your buffs will help the Ranger hybrid a lot. If you stay away from Elite quests, traps will very seldom kill you anyway.