Helpful Suggestions or Modifications for Duo?

[Girevik]

Goal:
Create a duo of characters that are capable of fully exploring the low- mid- level quests (up to 6th or so) and eventually participating as a contributing part of larger groups for later quests.

Restriction/Parameters:
Player A (my friend) is a new player to the game who has 28-point builds and Drow available for play. He has also expressed a desire to play a "Ranger". Player B (myself) is a more experienced player who has both 32-point builds and Drow available. He is willing to play anything that will work, but hasn't tried a "Bard" before and is leaning that way. Both players are going to be very casual about time spent with the characters, so we are looking at a slow level progression.

Initial Proposal:
Player A will play a Dwarf Ranger "Scout" (w/ some Fighter). Player B will play a Drow Bard (with an early Rogue level or two for Trap/Lock smithing and Evasion). This will allow the new player to lead the way scouting out the "to him" unfamiliar quests.

Dwarf Ranger (/Fighter) "Scout"
Str: 16 + Level-ups + Item + Ftr Enh.
Int: 8 (dump)
Wis: 14 + Item
Con: 14 + Item + Dwf Enhs.
Dex: 14 + Item + Rng Enhs.
Cha: 6 (dump)

Level/Class Progression:
1-5 Ranger, 6 Fighter, 7 Ranger, 8 Fighter, 9+ Ranger

Skills:
6 - 1 = 5 Skill Points per Ranger Level
2 - 1 = 1 Skill Point per Fighter Level
At First: +4 to Spot, Hide, Move Silently, Jump, & Concentration
Progression: Keep Spot at max, spread additional points between Hide, Move Silently, Jump, Balance(cc), & Tumble(cc).

Feats:
Character Feats at 1, 3, and 6: Toughness, Dodge, and Mobility
Fighter Feat at 6: Spring Attack
Fighter Feat at 8: Improved Critical: Slashing
Character Feats at 9, 12, and 15: Select to suit playstyle, possibilities include Power Attack, Oversized Two Weapon Fighting, Mental Toughness, Archery Feats, …

Favored Enemies:
Undead, Giants, & Evil Outsiders

Enhancements:
Tempest (obviously), Fighter Str 1, Ranger Dex 1&2, Dwarven Toughness 1-4, Dwarven Con 1&2, Dwarven Armor Masteries, Axe Attack, etc. (play by ear based on gear and preferences).


Drow Bard (/Rogue) "Sapper"
Str: 10 + Item
Int: 16 + Item (when Searching or Disabling)
Wis: 8 + Item
Con: 12 + Item
Dex: 16 + Item + Drow & Rog Enhs.
Cha: 17 + Level-ups + Item + Bard Enhs.

Level/Class Progression:
1 Rogue, 2 Bard, 3 Rogue, & 4+ Bard.

Skills:
8 + 3 = 11 Skill Points per Rogue Level
6 + 3 = 9 Skill Point per Bard Level
At First (Rogue): +4 to Balance, Disable Device, Haggle, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Open Lock, Search, Spot, Tumble & Use Magic Device
At Second (Bard): +5 to Perform, +4 to Concentration
At Third (Rogue): +1 to Balance, +2 each to Disable Device, Haggle, Open Lock, Search, & Use Magic Device
At Fourth (Bard): +2 to Perform, +1 each to Concentration, Disable Device(cc), Haggle, Search(cc), & Use Magic Device
At Fifth and onwards (Bard): +1 each to Concentration, Disable Device(cc), Open Lock(cc), Perform, Search(cc), & Use Magic Device

Feats:
Character Feats at 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, and 15: Skill Focus: UMD, Weapon Finesse, Mental Toughness, Spell Focus: Enchantment, Extend?, Force of Personality? (play later feats by ear)

Enhancements:
Spell Singer (& prerequisites), Rogue Dex 1, Bard Char 1&2, Drow Dex 1&2, Wand, Healing, & Spell Point Boosters, ... (play by ear based on gear and preferences).

[Premier]

You have some very workable ideas.

I know it's very common but try splashing in some Paladin in that Ranger build for the AC and saves benefit for the both of you if you plan on duoing successfully. Dwarf is a good choice. Maybe drop the WIS to a 12 instead of a 14.

The Bard / Rogue mix can work but I found it's tough to make him do everything, especially for duoing. Try a WIZ / ROG; say 15/1 or 14/2. I know they have been done before but it's definitely workable.

If you want to go with Bard then try lowering your initial dex score (maybe a 10 or 12?) and put those points into strength or con. That way you can get into battle more and help out your buddy with melee. Definitely rock Sound Burst alot if you plan on playing a Bard. Also try considering Human instead of Drow; humans can get an extra +2 to CHA through enhancements and 1 extra skill point / level!!

I just got my brother to play and he's been leveling up a cleric. I can't wait until he can group with my higher level characters because I'd love to try duoing some higher level quests. I hope you and your friend have a good time, peace!

-Premier

[richieelias27]

Try Dwarf cleric 14 rogue 2 instead of rogue/bard

All the healing/CC and more plus you'll never fail a search check again. This also allows you to tank if you bring your INT high enough to keep Disable/Search maxed along with intimidate (class skill with rogue). Just be sure to grab quicken if you go that route. I'd shoot for 16 wis, 16 int, 12 dex and dump the rest into CON.

[Girevik]

Well, I do have 32-point builds open for the support character... but Drow just looks so good.

The way I have it spec'd above:
Str: 10
Int: 16
Wis: 8
Con: 12
Dex: 16
Cha: 17
Point Cost as Drow: 2 + 6 + 0 + 6 + 6 + 8 = 28
Point Cost if Human: 2 + 10 + 0 + 4 + 10 + 13 = 39 OUCH!

It is really hard for me to pass up that kind of a bargain, especially since Int, Cha, (and Dex) will be used for key skills.

I also like the lightly armored Bard getting the Evasion from the second level of Rogue.


I already have a Dwarven Cleric, though I do have to admit, he doesn't play anything like a:
Str: 8
Int: 16
Wis: 16
Con: 15
Dex: 12
Cha: 6
IntimiCleric would. (Hmm, 5 skill points per level wouldn't allow me to keep three cross class skills maxed.)


I think I am pretty well set on the Crowd Control and Buffing Bard. I am waffling on Weapon Finesse and an effects weapon, such as Curse-spewing, etc, or standing back with a Repeating Crossbow. Standing back sounds like a good idea with his miniscule hit points, but what if things come up to him?

[Premier]

Use the Hypnotism spell on all the mobs that come at you if you're playing a Bard. It's one of my favorite spells! I prefer it better than Sound Burst because of the longer duration; but Sound Burst is a very useful spell. A 6 sec Sound Burst is great if you can fight in the thick of things. Just my opinion from experience. Peace!

-Premier

[Dirac]

I don't see why the Bard is taking the rogue level. Let the ranger be the trap smith. Go with Grenfell's round mound of astound for the ranger. Keep the Bard pure. Bards have precious few spell points. Any extra classes hurt that, as well as when you get your spells, as well as your BAB. All of which are going to make a big difference if you are leveling slowly.

2 levels of rogue make the problem even worse. I don't think rogue/bard synergize very well. In the bulk of time, you are essentially gong to be questing as a Bard 2 levels down.

[Girevik]

Hypnotism sounds like a winner. I was also eyeing Otto's.

Both Hypno and Otto's are Will-based saves to negate, but Otto's is single target. Does it have anything, such as duration, to help balance that versus Hypo? (Other than the great dancing effect?)

Is it: Hypno = wake up when hit? Otto's = Dance until you drop?


P.S. I think I am leaning towards the Repeater.