New Zeal is coming, so, 2Rog/6Rgr/8Pal anyone? :)

[iruka41]

Would you still go for the extra skill points for umd and evasion? Any caster levels for wands?

Yup, definately.
Caster level isn't required when you can group with arcane casters, and your UMD is high enough (19 rank + high CHA) to use reconstruct scrolls when the time comes. Also, you got Lay on Hands too, along with generous clerics

[Gunga]

Yup, definately.
Caster level isn't required when you can group with arcane casters, and your UMD is high enough (19 rank + high CHA) to use reconstruct scrolls when the time comes. Also, you got Lay on Hands too, along with generous clerics

**** you! Deleting wf pali sorc now....

[iruka41]

**** you! Deleting wf pali sorc now....

Just forgot a point in Arcane splashing.
Well at least you got a heavy SP boost with the sorc level there Pros and Cons.

[Valiance]

Check out my Avalanche build in the ranger forums. 8cleric/6ranger/2monk. Super high AC. That build was made before the new Pali stuff was announced so could just as easily be 8 pali. Imo the 8 cleric will probably still be better as speed boosts don't stack completely per Eladrin's statement. (I.e. you only get a fraction of each additional speed boost.)

My other build i'm working out right now will be a 12 sorc/2pali/2monk. With the cha bonus from Pali, quickened reconstructs, and sorc sp it should be a pretty durable build with nice dps as well. The required lack of armor/shield works well when holding 2 casting items, toss a docent of defiance on that toon and you are **** near invincible while you're tumbling around.

[Gunga]

Check out my Avalanche build in the ranger forums. 8cleric/6ranger/2monk. Super high AC. That build was made before the new Pali stuff was announced so could just as easily be 8 pali. Imo the 8 cleric will probably still be better as speed boosts don't stack completely per Eladrin's statement. (I.e. you only get a fraction of each additional speed boost.)

Gross.

My other build i'm working out right now will be a 12 sorc/2pali/2monk. With the cha bonus from Pali, quickened reconstructs, and sorc sp it should be a pretty durable build with nice dps as well. The required lack of armor/shield works well when holding 2 casting items, toss a docent of defiance on that toon and you are **** near invincible while you're tumbling around.

Please tell me this is a wf build....

[Valiance]

Gross.



Please tell me this is a wf build....

What was it that gave it away, was it the mention of using the Docent of Defiance? lol

Of course WF ftw on any arcane build.

[iruka41]

Check out my Avalanche build in the ranger forums. 8cleric/6ranger/2monk. Super high AC. That build was made before the new Pali stuff was announced so could just as easily be 8 pali. Imo the 8 cleric will probably still be better as speed boosts don't stack completely per Eladrin's statement. (I.e. you only get a fraction of each additional speed boost.)

That build sounds great. Negating BAB penalty thru Divine Power, fast attack speed thru Tempest (now faster with the new Wind Stance patch if with Kamas), with great ability of self-healing. Now I can only imagine what if that insane AC toon had maxed Intimidate!!!

BTW, Eladrin's statement only tells that 'it is not that much as you might expected'.
And I know that 'not much' factor still matters, from expirience.

For example, considering constant Haste, [Tempest + Haste Boost I] will still be faster than [Tempest + Zeal]. But that's only 100~140 sec/rest.
(Haste + Tempest + Haste Boost is super faster than just Haste + Tempest. So those 3rd boost surely matters a lot)

However, this build maintains constant Tempest/Zeal with a chance to become even faster than simple Tempest/HasteBoost
by putting Haste Boost into the Tempest/Zeal combo. (Maybe not much, but hopefuly still noticable)

In result, overall this toon will be 'constantly' faster than my 1Rog/15Ranger. That's how I see it
Maybe a little lower on DPS against FE, but with more speed.

My other build i'm working out right now will be a 12 sorc/2pali/2monk. With the cha bonus from Pali, quickened reconstructs, and sorc sp it should be a pretty durable build with nice dps as well. The required lack of armor/shield works well when holding 2 casting items, toss a docent of defiance on that toon and you are **** near invincible while you're tumbling around.

That's exactly what I recommanded to my guildie (he's a PvP addictive). Nice combo right?
The only thing to consider is, to melee or not to melee... which affects starting stat distribution heavily.
So what was your choice?

[Gunga]

What was it that gave it away, was it the mention of using the Docent of Defiance? lol

Of course WF ftw on any arcane build.

NM

[ehcsztein]

2Rog/6Rgr/8Pal ... tempting idea...

But I'd probably go 2FTR/6Rgr/8Pal because I already started the toon (5rng/2ftr currently) and spent the tomes

Luckily my plan is to hit 8 on this one and table it for a while. Original intent was STR based tempest monk but, pal/mnk/rog won out in the "fun" factor. So going paly from 9-16 is very tempting ... thanks for the idea

[iruka41]

2Rog/6Rgr/8Pal ... tempting idea...

But I'd probably go 2FTR/6Rgr/8Pal because I already started the toon (5rng/2ftr currently) and spent the tomes

Luckily my plan is to hit 8 on this one and table it for a while. Original intent was STR based tempest monk but, pal/mnk/rog won out in the "fun" factor. So going paly from 9-16 is very tempting ... thanks for the idea

Fighter level instead of rogue level is a nice idea too.
You will lose Evasion, UMD and skill points, but will get 2 more feats along with +1BAB, more HP.
And maintain the same Intimidate & Haste Boost.

Fighter, Monk, Rogue, all seems to be reasonable choices for 2 levels of splash.

[Gunga]

2Rog/6Rgr/8Pal ... tempting idea...

But I'd probably go 2FTR/6Rgr/8Pal because I already started the toon (5rng/2ftr currently) and spent the tomes

Luckily my plan is to hit 8 on this one and table it for a while. Original intent was STR based tempest monk but, pal/mnk/rog won out in the "fun" factor. So going paly from 9-16 is very tempting ... thanks for the idea

That's the build in my sig...he's my favorite meleer. Runs around with a 36 str, mid 50s ac, 20s - 30s saves and dual wields 2 double supreme greensteel DAs.

[Uproar]

Why Zeal over Fighter Haste IV?

[iruka41]

Why Zeal over Fighter Haste IV?

Because boosts last no longer than 140sec total, or 7 fights.
You cannot recharge your boost in any other way than resting.

However spell-based speed boost makes you almost perma-boosted.
Also, there's many other way to recharge SP, via pots, items, DVs.
Think it as the Haste spell.

Though, there's one occasion that the Haste Boost is superior than Zeal: Anti-magic field

[Valiance]

That build sounds great. Negating BAB penalty thru Divine Power, fast attack speed thru Tempest (now faster with the new Wind Stance patch if with Kamas), with great ability of self-healing. Now I can only imagine what if that insane AC toon had maxed Intimidate!!!

BTW, Eladrin's statement only tells that 'it is not that much as you might expected'.
And I know that 'not much' factor still matters, from expirience.

For example, considering constant Haste, [Tempest + Haste Boost I] will still be faster than [Tempest + Zeal]. But that's only 100~140 sec/rest.
(Haste + Tempest + Haste Boost is super faster than just Haste + Tempest. So those 3rd boost surely matters a lot)

However, this build maintains constant Tempest/Zeal with a chance to become even faster than simple Tempest/HasteBoost
by putting Haste Boost into the Tempest/Zeal combo. (Maybe not much, but hopefuly still noticable)

In result, overall this toon will be 'constantly' faster than my 1Rog/15Ranger. That's how I see it
Maybe a little lower on DPS against FE, but with more speed.



That's exactly what I recommanded to my guildie (he's a PvP addictive). Nice combo right?
The only thing to consider is, to melee or not to melee... which affects starting stat distribution heavily.
So what was your choice?

You're right on with the question of how to fit in melee ability on the WF. Also I was having a hard time getting my stats allocated to give me a nice AC which is one of my goals. What do you think of this build instead?

Race: Halfling
Class: Sorc12/Pali2/Monk2
Alignment: Lawful Good


12 STR 20 (+6 divine power+2 Favor Tome,)
16 DEX 26 (2 racial, +2 tome, +6 Item)
14 CON 22 (+6 Item, +2 tome)
9 INT 10 (plus 1 tome)
11 WIS 20 (+6 Item, +1 class, +2 tome)
16 CHA 34 (3 class, 4 level ups, 2 tome, 3 shroud, 6)

HP:
48 Sorc
20 Pali
16 monk
20 Heroic Durability
96 Con Mod
30 Greater False Life
10 Favor
5 Enhancement – Patient Tortoise
45 Greenweave
18 Toughness Helm
-----
308

Sp:
870
252 sorc cha
55 pali wis
525 shroud item
110 energy of dragonblood 3
---
1812 sp

UMD
9 ranks
12 cha
4 shroud item
4 GH
3 Cartouche
----
34

Concentration

AC:
10 Base
8 bracers
8 Shield w/ritual
8 Dexterity
5 Wisdom
1 Alchemical
5 Protection
4 dodge Icy rainments
3 Dodge (ring)
3 Natural (Barkskin Potion)
1 Monk (Level 1)
4 Insight
1 Haste
1 Pali Aura
1 halfling

63 AC with shield
------------
59 dual wielding with shield spell

Saves:
F/R/W
+4/4/8 sorc
+3/3/3 Monk
+3/0/0 pali
+12/12/12 div grace
+6/8/5 Stats
+3/3/3 Nightshield
+1/1/1 Alchemical
+4/4/4 GH (from girds)
+1/1/1 Aura
+0/1/0 halfing enhance
+0/1/0 haste

37/38/37 2 more on each if i'm wearing my Kardin's Eye


Feats:
1. Maximize
3. Empower
6. dragon mark
9. dragon mark
12. dragon mark
15. improv crit pierce?/ maybe heighten
monk feats:
1 wpn finesse
2 toughness/precision/power attack?

Attack: (baseline)
+9 BaB
+8 Dex
+5 Green Steel Rapier
+4 Greater Heroism
+2 Competence (Spectral gloves or Hound ring)
+1 Haste
+1 Halfing bonus
--------------
+30
+7 with divine power clickie
37

Base Damage:
5 wpn + 5 str + (5 power attack)= 10-15 plus backstab

Healing Marks

9 light- 41/per
7 med- 130/per
5 heal- 225/per
1 LOH- 144/per


[halfling] - Cunning I (1)
[halfling] - Cunning II (2)
[halfling] - Cunning III (3)
[halfling] - Dexterity (Halfling) I (2)
[halfling] - Dexterity (Halfling) II (4)
[halfling] - Extra Dragonmark I (1)
[halfling] - Extra Dragonmark II (2)
[halfling] - Extra Dragonmark III (3)
[halfling] - Extra Dragonmark IV (4)
[halfling] - Guile I (1)
[halfling] - Guile II (2)
[halfling] - Guile III (3)
[halfling] - Luck (Reflex) I (1)
[monk] - Disciple of Breezes (1)
[monk] - Way of the Patient Tortoise I
[monk] - Wisdom I (2)
[sorcerer] - Charisma I (2)
[sorcerer] - Charisma II (4)
[sorcerer] - Charisma III (6)
[sorcerer] - Elemental Manipulation I (1)
[sorcerer] - Elemental Manipulation II (2)
[sorcerer] - Elemental Manipulation III (3)
[sorcerer] - Energy of the Dragonblooded I (1)
[sorcerer] - Energy of the Dragonblooded II (2)
[sorcerer] - Energy of the Dragonblooded III (3)
[sorcerer] - Lineage of Deadly Elements I (1)
[sorcerer] - Lineage of Elements I (1)
[sorcerer] - Lineage of Elements II (2)
[sorcerer] - Lineage of Elements III (3)


Gear:
Helm: Minos Legions (Toughness, Heavy Fort)
Armor: Icy Rainments
Belt: Greater False Life
Boot: FF of divine power
Bracer: AC Bracers
Gloves: Greensteel mineral 2 (protection and fort)
Neck: +6 Constitution
Trinket: Kardon’s Eye/Bloodstone/Head of Good Fortune
Goggle: Sneak Attack goggles (5/8)
Cloak: +5 Protection/reaver napkin
Ring1: Hound ring (6 dex, +2 hit, tumble)
Ring2: +6 wis ring

[iruka41]

You're right on with the question of how to fit in melee ability on the WF. Also I was having a hard time getting my stats allocated to give me a nice AC which is one of my goals. What do you think of this build instead?

Race: Halfling
Class: Sorc12/Pali2/Monk2
Alignment: Lawful Good


12 STR 20 (+6 divine power+2 Favor Tome,)
16 DEX 26 (2 racial, +2 tome, +6 Item)
14 CON 22 (+6 Item, +2 tome)
9 INT 10 (plus 1 tome)
11 WIS 20 (+6 Item, +1 class, +2 tome)
16 CHA 34 (3 class, 4 level ups, 2 tome, 3 shroud, 6)

Very nice numbers on the breakdown
One thing comes to my mind, have you considered 13Wiz/2Monk/1Another? or even 2Monk/14Sorc?

Saves, looks like you have plenty anyways so maybe you can skip them.
(You know, monk levels boosts a lot.)

Weapons, you can choose any 1 level of martial class for it.
Or you can just rely on the level1 spell, Master's Touch.

That's why I think just plain 2Monk/14Sorc looks fine too.
You get more SP, more Spells, higher the highest level spell(7) , more damage, longer buffs, etc.

Reason for Wizard is... you get 3 extra free metamagic feats, and more spell slots (also with 7th level spells)
You had to choose only 2 of toughness/precision/powerAttack/Imp.Crit/heighten,
but with Wizard as your main caster level, you can choose ALL

Or you can drop some of your wish-list and go MentalToughness x2, Quicken.
That way you still cast fast, with enough SP, while maintaining more spells from yout spellbook.

Or you can choose Insightful Reflexes, maximizing yout Evasion without Pally levels.
Gimp CHA, invest in INT -> Higher DC (due to WF penalty on CHA), More skill points.

The only drag is low UMD, which is kinda sad :<
(Possible alterantes are 13Wiz/2Monk/1Rog, 13Wiz/1Monk/2Rog, 13Sor/2Monk/1Rog, 13Sor/1Monk/2Rog, etc.
Point is... I think you don't need 2 levels of pally.)

Hmm. Just my thought

I've been rolling a 1Barb/15Sorc, starting STR of 14 and curently at 22 without any rages,
sometimes I wish I were a Wizard when I seriously feels like to melee some.

Wizards are bad when nuking, but awesome when doing 2-job, especially when you need tons of Feats

[Redcoil]

Guess El's post

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=157134

kinda kills that, eh?

[iruka41]

Guess El's post

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=157134

kinda kills that, eh?

Yeah definately. It's kinda stupid.
That way no reason to splash more than 2 levels of paladins again.

[D'rin]

Not completely true. You could do 6/14 once the level cap goes up. You would have zeal/tempest boost plus you could have the second level of divine might for a +4damage which applies equally to the off hand. You would loose evasion but could self buff resists/protections. So really the only spell that would be problematic would be blade barrier.

Over all your speed would be 20% all the time self buffed and 45% with haste spell/pots. The real pain is you would have to wait until level 20 to realize the full potential of the build.

[Lewcipher]

AC:
10 Base
8 bracers
8 Shield w/ritual
8 Dexterity
5 Wisdom
1 Alchemical
5 Protection
4 dodge Icy rainments
3 Dodge (ring)
3 Natural (Barkskin Potion)
1 Monk (Level 1)
4 Insight
1 Haste
1 Pali Aura
1 halfling

63 AC with shield
------------
59 dual wielding with shield spell

Just an FYI, that shield bonus will not stack with your wis (you become uncentered) bonus to AC. So either subtract 5 off the 63 for a total of 58, or just dual wield with the shield spell.

[Thelmallen]

I was worried when I read this thread because I had started a character exactly like this without checking the forums. Glad to see it looks like a good build. Currently at rog2/rgr3. I thought hard about the ftr2/rgr6/pal8 but wanted evasion and UMD. Will finish with a mid-twenties UMD unbuffed. I'm also putting all my ranger and paladin points into intimidate and a few into haggle here and there. Went with a drow instead of dwarf just because I wanted to. Ending stats will be somewhat like 24/26/24/10/20/22, 400ish HP, 470ish SP. I really can't wait to get this character leveled up as he's gonna replace my evasion fighter and my pure lvl16 paladin.