A Guide to Using a Gamepad w/ DDO

[Calebro]

Its not the Next or Previous Bar, its like moving sideways on the bars

i hope i didn't misunderstood and there is no such thing


Oh i see, he programed the buttons to hit the keyboard keys, i can do that with my gamepad driver, thx!

Reread the post you quoted.
He has one key set to next bar.
The other buttons are set to the corresponding numbered slot on that bar.
He cycles through to the bar that he needs, then hits the corresponding button associated with the action he wants from that particular bar.

He basically has it set up to play exactly how you would from a keyboard with only a single bar on screen, but he does it with his controller.

[KKDragonLord]

Reread the post you quoted.
He has one key set to next bar.
The other buttons are set to the corresponding numbered slot on that bar.
He cycles through to the bar that he needs, then hits the corresponding button associated with the action he wants from that particular bar.

He basically has it set up to play exactly how you would from a keyboard with only a single bar on screen, but he does it with his controller.

Yep, just did, reread the post you quoted =p
Thx anyway

[Calebro]

Yep, just did, reread the post you quoted =p
Thx anyway

The edit-fu is strong with this one. :P

[KKDragonLord]

The edit-fu is strong with this one. :P

Whooo boy, tell me about it, in long posts i edit 1932901348 times to get the grammar right, rephrasing or adding stuff to get the point across...

[sephiroth1084]

Reread the post you quoted.
He has one key set to next bar.
The other buttons are set to the corresponding numbered slot on that bar.
He cycles through to the bar that he needs, then hits the corresponding button associated with the action he wants from that particular bar.

He basically has it set up to play exactly how you would from a keyboard with only a single bar on screen, but he does it with his controller.

I may try this out one day, but seems like it'd be a headache to recall where you've stashed stuff across 200 hotbar slots.

It also seems like it'd be fairly slow to get to stuff. Not a big deal if you just hang out on one hotbar all the time, then switch out of combat for buffs, clickies, etc... but I know that I use more than 10 things in combat quite often. I'd be curious to read a report on how this works in play.

[Calebro]

I may try this out one day, but seems like it'd be a headache to recall where you've stashed stuff across 200 hotbar slots.

It also seems like it'd be fairly slow to get to stuff. Not a big deal if you just hang out on one hotbar all the time, then switch out of combat for buffs, clickies, etc... but I know that I use more than 10 things in combat quite often. I'd be curious to read a report on how this works in play.

I was thinking the exact same thing. Slow (until you got used to it, maybe).
If I were to use this set-up, I would definitely need a "previous bar" key as well. I wouldn't want to cycle through 20 bars if I tabbed 1 bar too far.

Maybe R3 for next bar, L3 for previous, R1 jump, L1 block, R2 next enemy target, L2 next ally, 1-9 on buttons/d-pad/select/start (leaving 1 button open for basic attack, and spot 10 open at all times)

I think I might be able to get used to that quick enough....

edit* changed some stuff

[Calebro]

Oh, and I never mentioned it, but I did re-try the gamepad play with a newbie.
It took a little while to get used to it, but I like it a lot.
I use this gamepad which actually has more buttons with the auto/slow/cancel/mode in addition to select/start in the center.

I'll post a set-up for it one of these days when I get my PC working again.

[sephiroth1084]

I was thinking the exact same thing. Slow (until you got used to it, maybe).
If I were to use this set-up, I would definitely need a "previous bar" key as well. I wouldn't want to cycle through 20 bars if I tabbed 1 bar too far.

Maybe R3 for next bar, L3 for previous, R1 jump, L1 block, R2 next enemy target, L2 next ally, 1-9 on buttons/d-pad/select/start (leaving 1 button open for basic attack, and spot 10 open at all times)

I think I might be able to get used to that quick enough....

edit* changed some stuff

I was thinking the same--that I'd need a 'Previous Bar' button as well, but I still think it might get frustrating if you jump to bar 10 and then have to scroll back (or forward) through 10 bars to get to what you need. Even with experience I can't imagine it being very fast.

Spyder, wanna come give us a rundown of how this actually works in play?

[sephiroth1084]

Oh, and I never mentioned it, but I did re-try the gamepad play with a newbie.
It took a little while to get used to it, but I like it a lot.
I use this gamepad which actually has more buttons with the auto/slow/cancel/mode in addition to select/start in the center.

I'll post a set-up for it one of these days when I get my PC working again.

More buttons are always good!

And they come in de pretty culorz.

[Calebro]

More buttons are always good!

And they come in de pretty culorz.

Yeah, 8 more things right in hand makes a difference.
Without logging and giving exact details, I can tell you that "mode" is push-to-talk, and the others are used for in combat gear swaps for melee and spells for casters.
In combat gear swaps = optimum gear / (shift)combat clicky gear.
As an example, my rogue/monk doesn't always have his hasteX5 outfit on, but I can get it on, use it, and get back to optimum outfit with (shift)start/(shift)start/start, all in combat and very fast.
When those 5x hastes are gone, I swap a new unused 5x into that spot on the hotbar once combat is over.

[KKDragonLord]

I just realized that having my camera controls on the mouse and movement on the keyboard is vastly superior than using a game pad, for me at least.

On the mouse i can attack and interact with objects by cliking on them, turn the character around with the camera, look up and down, scroll the camera out and in, and sometimes hold the middle wheel button to look behind without turning.

On the Keyboard i strafe as much as i move forward and backwards, i use Q,E,R,F,C,X,Z,T,F,C,V,G,H,B, the number buttons from 1 to 6, tab, spacebar, ctrl, alt and shift, all within range of my single walking hand. not to mention combinations with alt that can include wasd, and shift (that i barely use because my pinky is not strong enough and i dont need that many commands).

On the gamepad unless i get used to a lesser degree of control over the camera and the character, i can't remove my thumbs from both sticks and that makes using the D pad and the main buttons an exclusion deal, the only way i could do it would be by using the shoulder buttons, which isnt a problem except that there are only 4.

Certainly, i am too used to using the keyboard and thats my problem, i am sure if i trained enough i could get used to the gamepad and do just as well even with the less amount of control over the camera. Positioning is what matters right. The problem is, my driver only allows for control over the keyboard and mouse at the same time, and that makes the analog sticks relegated to mouse duty. I am looking around for software to try changing this.

But what i really wanted to say is that i think the game should have different ways to configure the controls that could benefit the gamepad more. Multiple modifier keys is one of those.

When i imagined playing with a gamepad i thought it would be like using commands of an action fighting game, where you can hold a button and do several stuff, or even hold two or three more to make more complex commands. This would increase exponentially the amount of combinations you could assign commands to, and thats how a joystick can keep up with the keyboard in other games.

An in game option of scrolling sideways on the bar would also be nice, it could be used with the shoulder buttons giving us the ability to select things reliably while doing other stuff.

If for example the main bar could be assigned static commands, such as choosing buttons or combinations to represent the slots 1-10, and those assignments remained effective when you scrolled to change bars, you could push the same buttons for the same slots on different numbered bars.

What you guys think? Any more ideas?

[sephiroth1084]

In my experience 28 programmable buttons (attack, jump, push-to-talk, left mouse, block, tab and 22 hotbar slots) plus cursor and character movement is enough for all of my characters (except possibly my monk, oddly).

It would be nice if the game offered even more customization options, but I don't know if that'd be necessary. And the controllers Calebro linked to would have an extra 6 programmable buttons, bringing the total to 34. That's almost 3 hotbars. I don't know about you, but the stuff I have on my hotbars beyond the first 3 isn't all that crucial, and I can stand to take the time to mouse over to the icons rather than activate them on the gamepad. Whether this is a failing or not I can't say, as I haven't tried mouse and keyboard to see if I'd do it any differently.

How often do you hotkey restorative potions (Curse/Disease/Restore/Poison/Blindness) vs. how often you activate them by clicking the icons?

[KKDragonLord]

In my experience 28 programmable buttons (attack, jump, push-to-talk, left mouse, block, tab and 22 hotbar slots) plus cursor and character movement is enough for all of my characters (except possibly my monk, oddly).

It would be nice if the game offered even more customization options, but I don't know if that'd be necessary. And the controllers Calebro linked to would have an extra 6 programmable buttons, bringing the total to 34. That's almost 3 hotbars. I don't know about you, but the stuff I have on my hotbars beyond the first 3 isn't all that crucial, and I can stand to take the time to mouse over to the icons rather than activate them on the gamepad. Whether this is a failing or not I can't say, as I haven't tried mouse and keyboard to see if I'd do it any differently.

How often do you hotkey restorative potions (Curse/Disease/Restore/Poison/Blindness) vs. how often you activate them by clicking the icons?

Well, on my Pally i have about 25 weapon sets, 10 in the main bar, the others i pick with the mouse.
Spells, trip, smite evil and divine sacrifice on those keys surrounding awsd making another bar.
Ctrl+those keys for clikies of shield, pots of haste, barkskin and repair, and a few more spells, making yet another bar.
A bar just with equips i switch to with the mouse,
a bar of clikies of haste, neutralize poison (for the fleshies), remove fear (for non pallys), clikies of jump, detect secret doors. (all these with Secondary level commands such as U I O P [] \).
Alt+FSCEA, for resists, Shift+FSCEA for pots of protection. Ctr+B for strider, Ctr+G for planar gird, H for lay on hands...

In short i use 43 hotkeys and roughly 6 more bars that i click with the mouse, two of them of great importance.

The best thing about being a warforged pally is that i usually have a spell, or immunities so i dont need to use restorative potions =p

With my monk im still having trouble finding a way to use all the combo moves, but so far my Ki doesnt rise so much.

[sephiroth1084]

Well, on my Pally i have about 25 weapon sets, 10 in the main bar, the others i pick with the mouse.
Spells, trip, smite evil and divine sacrifice on those keys surrounding awsd making another bar.
Ctrl+those keys for clikies of shield, pots of haste, barkskin and repair, and a few more spells, making yet another bar.
A bar just with equips i switch to with the mouse,
a bar of clikies of haste, neutralize poison (for the fleshies), remove fear (for non pallys), clikies of jump, detect secret doors. (all these with Secondary level commands such as U I O P [] \).
Alt+FSCEA, for resists, Shift+FSCEA for pots of protection. Ctr+B for strider, Ctr+G for planar gird, H for lay on hands...

In short i use 43 hotkeys and roughly 6 more bars that i click with the mouse, two of them of great importance.

The best thing about being a warforged pally is that i usually have a spell, or immunities so i dont need to use restorative potions =p

With my monk im still having trouble finding a way to use all the combo moves, but so far my Ki doesnt rise so much.

You, sir, need to clean out your backpack!

TWENTY-FIVE weapon sets? I think I have 10 or 12, and that feels like a lot.

In any case, most of the potions and clickies could stand to just be clicked, rather than hotkeyed. Not saying they need to be, but doing so wouldn't be a hardship, since they have either a longish duration, or don't tend to need to be activated at the same pace that your real in-combat abilities do.

I had initially put my Jump clickies and Bark pots on my hotkeys for my paladin as well, but as I got more weapon sets and abilities I slowly started moving all of that to clicking slots. As it is, I reserve or 8 slots (d-pad, and d-pad + ctrl) for weapon sets, and swap around sets as needed when heading into a dungeon. For example, when I got into Rainbow, I put my Mucksdoom, Smiter and Greater Elemental Bane weapons into slots for other weapons that won't be needed.

[KKDragonLord]

You, sir, need to clean out your backpack!

TWENTY-FIVE weapon sets? I think I have 10 or 12, and that feels like a lot.

Well its technically 26 considering the one i make with the Holy Sword spell to beat on Cornugons and Pit Fiends.

My current weapon sets are:
A Greensteel Greatsword (not transmuting yet)
A Terror Greatsword from the inspired quarter
A +2 Paralyzer Greatsword of PG
A +2 true law Greatsword of Disruption
A +2 weakening Greatsword of Enfeebling (for living spells)
A +1 true law scimitar or smiting (paired with madstone shield)
A +1 banisher rapier of tendon slice (w shield)
A +3 Vorpal longsword (w shield)
A +1 Holy Greatsword of Greater Undead Bane
A +1 Holy Greatsclub of Greater Undead Bane
A +3 Flaming burst Greatsword of PG (from the time when i fought cold foes)
A +4 Icy burst Greatsword of PG (from the time when i fought flaming foes)
A +5 Mettaline Greatsword of Righteous (which became a golem beater after the transmuting nerf)
A Cloudburst, from the reaver (looks so cool)
A +4 Thundering Greatsword of Greater Elemental Bane
A +3 Holy of Greater Reptilian Bane (for Coal chamber, Enter the kobold and the like)
A +4 Thundering of Greater Ooze Bane, (also for living spells)
A +2 Shocking burst battleaxe of everbright (w/ shield, for Rusties)
A +5 returning flaming throwing axe (w/shield, for ranging)
A Muckdoom with a Muckbane for easy to hit ooze
A Muckdoom w/ shield for dangerous ooze
A +3 Flaming burst Falchion of Greater Giant Bane (mostly for ice giants)
A +3 Metalline Falchion of Greater Giant Bane (for giants with DR and Stoned)
A +4 Vorpal Greatsword (i intended to use thinking the new warforged enhancements could trigger it, but its still useful for glancing blows when AC doesnt matter)
And finally
A +3 True law Greatsword of Greater Dragon Bane, for Velah.

I still have a +1 Seeker +10 falchion that i used a bit for making massive Smite crits, but i only managed to use it when i was at the top of my game before i stopped playing during mod 7. It still clutters my backpack because i was uncertain if the Capstone Weapons of Good could eventually make it worthwhile. But i think you convinced me to sell it =p

Im expecting to drop quite a bunch of those once i finish my greensteel.

[sephiroth1084]

I think you could easily consolidate that list considerably given how few monsters are both dangerous enough that you need to DPS them down super quickly and also have so much HP that it's worth carrying around a weapon just for them.

Mineral II, when/if you finish it, can replace a few of those as well, though I'd probably not bother with a Mineral II on a paladin and just go with Holy Sword.

I also don't think you need that many weapons for rusties and oozes. In any case, it's not like you're using all of those for each quest. Even if you aren't banking any, they hardly need to be on a hotkey. The only quest that I can think of that even comes close to using even half of those is Rainbow. Everything else requires maybe 2-4 of those.

[KKDragonLord]

I think you could easily consolidate that list considerably given how few monsters are both dangerous enough that you need to DPS them down super quickly and also have so much HP that it's worth carrying around a weapon just for them.

Mineral II, when/if you finish it, can replace a few of those as well, though I'd probably not bother with a Mineral II on a paladin and just go with Holy Sword.

I also don't think you need that many weapons for rusties and oozes. In any case, it's not like you're using all of those for each quest. Even if you aren't banking any, they hardly need to be on a hotkey. The only quest that I can think of that even comes close to using even half of those is Rainbow. Everything else requires maybe 2-4 of those.

Yay, just finished my Min2, time to put out the DPS calc to figure out what goes and what stays.
Anyway, yeah i probably could do without some of this stuff, but i truly use most of them. I couldnt bear going to the bank before and after each quest, its easier to just keep them with me. What worries me is that i usually need to switch fast to get the most of each weapon, and that would be hard to do with the gamepad.

Not talking about anyone in particular but i find it funny how sometimes people get so serious about DPS on their builds when it takes so much effort to increase just a few points.
And yet when it comes to equipment most just go with a Min 2 and never look back, even when its possible to get those extra points with the right combination of effects, such as Greaterbanes and what not. Wouldnt it be best to have a weapon for each mob to increase DPS?

Obviously im not talking about the stupid approach, which would be wasting precious seconds by switching weapons at the wrong times, but on a smart approach that uses the right weapon for the right situation, which is the Min 2 in some cases, and isn't in others. Thats what i try to do anyway, im gimped enough as a THF greatsword user WF full Pally already, if i werent a KotC, ppl wouldnt even group with me, right?

[sephiroth1084]

Last bit on this discussion as I don't want to sidetrack this thread.

The issue is that there really aren't any trogs, for example, that are both very dangerous and have a lot of HP, so losing a little damage (Mineral II vs. Greater Bane) is inconsequential: the inventory space is more valuable than the extra DPS.

[Calebro]

Seph- My gamepad finally broke. So I got a new one and completely remapped everything.
One major change I implemented was to make (shift)R2 my toggle for mouselook. I basically leave mouselook on all the time. When I enter combat I "grab" the screen with R2 (similar to you, but the opposite). General movement is done in mouselook mode similar to a FPS game.
Blocking/tumbling is just as effective for me this way, if not more so, and I've found that I have more control moving around this way.
And I don't accidentally move the mouse cursor around the screen anymore either. In order to move it I just hit R2.

It took a few hours of soloing to get used to the change, but I'm extremely happy with it now that I'm becoming accustomed to it. There are moments when I strafe instead of turn, and vice-verse, because the movement is opposed to what I was used to, but they're getting less and less frequent already.
Give it a shot for a couple of hours and see if you like it as much as I do.

[sephiroth1084]

Seph- My gamepad finally broke. So I got a new one and completely remapped everything.
One major change I implemented was to make (shift)R2 my toggle for mouselook. I basically leave mouselook on all the time. When I enter combat I "grab" the screen with R2 (similar to you, but the opposite). General movement is done in mouselook mode similar to a FPS game.
Blocking/tumbling is just as effective for me this way, if not more so, and I've found that I have more control moving around this way.
And I don't accidentally move the mouse cursor around the screen anymore either. In order to move it I just hit R2.

It took a few hours of soloing to get used to the change, but I'm extremely happy with it now that I'm becoming accustomed to it. There are moments when I strafe instead of turn, and vice-verse, because the movement is opposed to what I was used to, but they're getting less and less frequent already.
Give it a shot for a couple of hours and see if you like it as much as I do.

Will do, Calebro! And I'll pop in here with my thoughts when I try it out.