Self sufficient cleric?

[fizzzle31]

Just messing around with builds and came up with a healer that can hold his own, I'm still getting the hang of the game so I might have messed things up here and there. Please let me know what you would change or if the whole thing is out of whack. Without further adieu I present my build!

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Orinthel Ironhand
Level 16 Lawful Good Dwarf Male
(3 Paladin \ 13 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 275
Spell Points: 1056 
BAB: 12\12\17\22
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 8
Will: 16

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
Abilities        (Level 1)          (Level 16)           (Level 16)
Strength             16                 18                   18
Dexterity            10                 10                   10
Constitution         14                 14                   16
Intelligence          8                  8                    8
Wisdom               14                 15                   18
Charisma             12                 13                   14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 16)
Balance               0                     4
Bluff                 1                     2
Concentration         2                    15
Diplomacy             1                     2
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle                1                     2
Heal                  4                     9
Hide                  0                     0
Intimidate            1                     2
Jump                  3                     4
Listen                2                     4
Move Silently         0                     0
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                     1
Spot                  2                     4
Swim                  3                     4
Tumble                1                     1
Use Magic Device      n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Paladin)
Skill: Heal (+2)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Good
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Dwarven Stability
Feat: (Automatic) Dwarven Stonecutting
Feat: (Automatic) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Dwarven Waraxe
Feat: (Automatic) Giant Evasion
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Orc and Goblin Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Poison Save Bonus
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency (ALL)
Feat: (Automatic) Smite Evil
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Spell Save Bonus (Dwarf)
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip

Level 2 (Paladin)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Grace
Feat: (Automatic) Lay on Hands
Enhancement: Dwarven Faith I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I

Level 3 (Paladin)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Automatic) Aura of Courage
Feat: (Automatic) Divine Health
Feat: (Automatic) Fear Immunity
Enhancement: Dwarven Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I

Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training
Feat: (Automatic) Turn Undead
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality I

Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I

Level 6 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Enhancement: Dwarven Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I

Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Enhancement: Dwarven Faith II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II

Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Divine Vitality II

Level 9 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II

Level 10 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Enhancement: Dwarven Faith III

Level 11 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II

Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Dwarven Toughness III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II

Level 13 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)

Level 14 (Cleric)
Skill: Heal (+1)
Enhancement: Dwarven Faith IV
Enhancement: Dwarven Toughness IV

Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness

Level 16 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III

[DemonMage]

What's wrong with being full cleric? You're perfectly self-sufficient then. Other than perhaps quests with heavy traps, in which case, you'd want to have a rogue level or two (for evasion) to have a better shot at making it across/disabling the trap.

What self-sufficiency do you aim to gain with the paladin levels that you don't gain with cleric levels?

[fizzzle31]

What's wrong with being full cleric? You're perfectly self-sufficient then. Other than perhaps quests with heavy traps, in which case, you'd want to have a rogue level or two (for evasion) to have a better shot at making it across/disabling the trap.

What self-sufficiency do you aim to gain with the paladin levels that you don't gain with cleric levels?

Like I said, I'm still pretty new and only have a level 6 cleric. I have an odd play schedule so I would like to be able to solo a bit better, and I really can't stand being limited to Basic weapons. What I hoped to gain from the three paladin levels was a higher BaB, some good saves, and a few more weapons to choose from other than a Heavy Mace and a Morning Star.

[DemonMage]

You'd gain okay saves, but really a cleric is more of a late game soloer without some good gear (get yourself an elemental weapon and some cure wands as backup though and woo). You wouldn't really gain much in the way of BAB once you got up to level 7. Divine Power sets your BAB = character level, which is as good as it gets, plus provides a +6 enhancement bonus to strength. It's short duration (6 seconds/level), but helps bring your melee power up.

The cleric power in soloing is really spells though if you're building with later on in mind at all. Once you hit level 11 and gain blade barrier, it pretty much all changes. Hit 13 and gain Destruction and that's another tool to your bag of owning mobs. So you may want to go with a higher wisdom and moderate strength using melee to get you through the lower levels, but still having powerful spells later on.

Without taking 1 level of paladin or fighter you are limited to much poorer weapon pool, which does suck. I'm just less of a fan of it really as casting is so important later on to your raw power. Though you can still be a respectable caster with a single level of fighter or paladin to open up other weapons and fighter haste boost, etc. 3 levels hurts your caster level a lot, and I just don't think the benefits are overly worth it. I'd be more inclined towards 2 rogue for it's unique benefits beyond killing power, which your cleric levels will provide for you easily. But perhaps that's not quite so friendly for someone new? It's worth considering, and maybe someone else can provide a full build (or a link to one of the ones floating around) that might help.

[fizzzle31]

You'd gain okay saves, but really a cleric is more of a late game soloer without some good gear (get yourself an elemental weapon and some cure wands as backup though and woo). You wouldn't really gain much in the way of BAB once you got up to level 7. Divine Power sets your BAB = character level, which is as good as it gets, plus provides a +6 enhancement bonus to strength. It's short duration (6 seconds/level), but helps bring your melee power up.

The cleric power in soloing is really spells though if you're building with later on in mind at all. Once you hit level 11 and gain blade barrier, it pretty much all changes. Hit 13 and gain Destruction and that's another tool to your bag of owning mobs. So you may want to go with a higher wisdom and moderate strength using melee to get you through the lower levels, but still having powerful spells later on.

Without taking 1 level of paladin or fighter you are limited to much poorer weapon pool, which does suck. I'm just less of a fan of it really as casting is so important later on to your raw power. Though you can still be a respectable caster with a single level of fighter or paladin to open up other weapons and fighter haste boost, etc. 3 levels hurts your caster level a lot, and I just don't think the benefits are overly worth it. I'd be more inclined towards 2 rogue for it's unique benefits beyond killing power, which your cleric levels will provide for you easily. But perhaps that's not quite so friendly for someone new? It's worth considering, and maybe someone else can provide a full build (or a link to one of the ones floating around) that might help.

Thanks for your advice, it really helps. I know a human would be my first pick for a cleric. a lot of things about picking human would make it easier on me, but aesthetically I'd love to play a dwarven cleric. Would picking dwarf gimp me out in any way?

[WilbyZ]

If you take a level of Paladin or Ranger, you get double dips on Spell Points base on your Wisdom score

If taking Ranger, make sure you take it at Level 1 to get the Bonus Skill Points.

If taking Dwarf, forget about CHA score and turn undeads. Focus on your other strengths.

[Velorn]

Thanks for your advice, it really helps. I know a human would be my first pick for a cleric. a lot of things about picking human would make it easier on me, but aesthetically I'd love to play a dwarven cleric. Would picking dwarf gimp me out in any way?

Don't forget about the Sovereign Host enhancement which gives you longsword proficiency. The Dwarven Clerics I've seen are pretty good at melee if they so choose to be. But it's a trade off IMO. Human extra feats vs. Dwarven toughness. If this is your first character I'd probably stick with pure cleric...maybe splash in a level of fighter later on. Have fun with it though.

[Redd]

if you're looking for self sufficient, consider umd. Not going to go into detail on build, but start as an alternate class that allows you to build umd, then remaining lvls as cleric. At higher lvls you will be able to wand whip stoneskin, fire shield etc....

[Impaqt]

I like taking a Single paly level on Clerics... 3 seems a bit overkill unles your going to Focus on Melee rather than Spells. and if your going to do that, you might as well take some fighter levels as well. I have a very stron melee cleric build linked through my sig. I basically solod him to 1750 favor and hes quite the potent melee build.

That being said. Nothing Solo's like an offensive caster speced cleric at end game. a Quickened, Empowered, Maximized, Potency'd Blade barrier can chew through just about any mob in the game with little concern for thier life.

Clerics dont start to shine in their solo capabilities until l11. WHen they get blade barrier.

My Dwarf 15Cleric/1Paly is also a solid solo build has a great spel point pool and has tons of hit points to last.

3 paly levles on a cleric doesnt help all that much. Fear Immunity is nice, but certainly not critical to a cleric. Cary Remove Fear potions. Keep em hotbared..

Disease immunity? Carry a remove Disease Want.