Group Expectations

[Sends]

I'm new to D&D online, but Played it in the 80's when it was popular.

I started a cleric, and enjoyed the game as a new cleric up until the last couple of days. I have actually only been playing a bit more than a week.

My Cleric is level 7 and I was invited to a group to do the Arena. All through the run to the arena some were asking:
How are we going to kill this guy, does anyone have a strategy, but no one answered.

When we got in the arena we did great until the last mob who pretty much wore us out. During the wipe, one of the guys asked me over audio; dont you have any Rez Scrolls. I actually thought you only received Rez at level 9 and didnt realize or think about buying rez scrolls and up to this point no one has ever asked me.

So I told them I would buy one or 2 if it would help. When I started to purchase them, I noticed that they were over 7k plat apiece, so I'm thinking, I buy 6 or 7 of these for 49k plat (which is how many it would have taken at the rate we were dying) - which would have cleaned me out financially, and then go back and start using them on people that are dying pretty quick, using no strategy to defeat the boss: I thought that it really didnt make much sense, especially since our last fight which lasted about 5 minutes, I used up all my power trying to keep the casters alive, and the mob was still about 4/5 health when we wiped.

I told the group nicely that I didnt think it was a good idea to spend all that money unless we came up with a good strategy, and unless everyone wanted to pitch in.

The comments I received were; you sure picked the wrong class if you didnt want to spend Money, and another rude comment of some sort. I started thinking, Dam. I spend all this money on Wands, Potions, and Healing Scrolls, The groups I use them on have no strategy's for killing Boss's, no one even buys potions to top their health off, they all just expect me to provide everything financially necessary, and they don't even need to supply a strategy.

This was the first time I actually looked at the game and said, Hum. I really like playing my cleric, but people sure have some misqued expectations. Or are only people that have level 16 mains suposed to be a Cleric as they are the only ones that can afford the class.

[Steejan]

Hey there Sends,

Your story is a sad one but not an uncommon one for many of the Clerics in this game.

Way too many groups just expect their healer to do just what you did and empty your toon's coffer for them and when your flat broke and the adventure is over, these folks seem to have no problem walking away counting all their plat, while you are left trying to figure out how to make ends meet.

This attitude is probably one of the main reasons why there are not that many Clerics being played now days and if they are played it’s not in many pug groups.

All I can tell you is when you start off before the adventure, let your group know that they need to bring their own means of healing for in between battles and that you will keep them upright during the actual battles. Also you need to make a conscious choice to NOT spend your toon into the poor farm to keep other players alive. In this game every toon has the means to be self sufficient with wands or potions when it comes to healing and if they choose to not be that way then they sure as heck can catch a ride in your backpack to the closest shrine.

Lots of folks myself included will make other toons and use the excess money they generate to keep their Clerics afloat during the harder times... But all in all nothing is more aggravating then to spend a big wad of plat on a group and not even get a thank you or an offer of a donation to help ease the sting.

Also when you are playing any other toons be sure to make that toon self sufficient and I always try and drop the Cleric a wand or some plat when I join a new group. Its amazing how having played a Cleric helps open ones eyes to the plight of the healing class.

Good hunting to ya and welcome to DDO.

Steejan

[Hvymetal]

Pick up 1 level of Fighter or Paladin, it greatly lowers others expectations.... j/k (well sorta).

[Ghoste]

You are grouping with the wrong people. Find a good guild that will take care of you. A good guild will also come up with a strategy to roll over that particular fight you mentioned without you needing to do much healing at all. Not all pick up groups are that bad though. But every once in a while

And a good (strong emphasis on good) wizard, of the level range you're talking about, should be able to solo that last fight without any healing, much less taking damage faster than the cleric can keep pace with. That's assuming he has a decent amount of spell points left at that point. If not, there are simple, well known methods that any group can follow to take those two guys down.

I hate playing a healer myself. I have a warforged battle cleric (can heal fairly well too) currently at level 10. When someone frustrates me like that, I've been known to simply stop healing them altogether. When they get angry and demand heals, I quote my bio to them:

When you get a heal from me, don't thank me, fleshling. My god despises you, and I despise you. Thank fate that I consider you more useful to me whole than broken. And if I don't heal you, it's because I consider someone else more useful to me.

I take many opportunities to remind my party members about that. Any time someone says "thank you" for a heal or restoration I've given them, I quickly paste my bio into party chat. They learn to stop thanking me, but also to not expect me to care too much about their health.

When they get all upset and say they're going to stop "defending" me, I laugh. I did after all build a battle cleric.

[Eregion2]

I know what you mean; my first account was also a cleric and I was also unaware that you could use scrolls before you actually got to the level necessary to cast the spell. I found out you could during a PUG run of Hiding In Plain Sight, much to everyone else's dismay. I actually never bought any res scrolls though, since I got L9 soon after.

I'm not in a guild, so I've only ever grouped in PUGs. I've had a few bad experiences as well, - mostly with players who seem to intentionally make their characters out to be healing sponges and then get PO'd when they find out clerics actually have limited spell points - but on the whole I've been very impressed by the average player I've grouped with compared with other MMOs (or maybe I've just been lucky? I guess it could go either way).

From what I've learned so far though, I'd say the biggest thing you can do as a cleric is to know when to pull out, and to realize it doesn't reflect badly on you at all if you do when a group is relying on you entirely to keep them alive in order to finish a quest (that's a key sign that they're in way over their heads). They definitely won't like you for it, but then you only have to consider whether their opinions are worth your time.

[Ghoste]

They definitely won't like you for it, but then you only have to consider whether their opinions are worth your time.

The key lies in letting them know first that you despise them. It usually works to tell them that when you first join the group and remind them frequently.

[Konek]

Another suggestion is to try to learn to manage your SP better. Take the time to learn how much healing you're going to get from each spell and how much it costs to cast that spell, then figure out the healing per sp for your heals. It gets much easier at higher level, once you have Heal, but before then, knowing which of your heals is most SP efficient helps a lot in avoiding having to dig into your pockets for wands and scrolls. Granted bad groups make it tough to use only SP, but if its your only character (my cleric was my first toon as well) don't feel bad about not having wands or scrolls. I normally would call the group if I went out of SP quickly (while being careful about it) instead of trying to keep it going with wands. If the group can't handle it, they can't handle it, and thats not your fault unless you're the one who put it together. No reason to spend 10-20k plat keeping a group moving that can't handle the quest their in.

Now, at least so far, I've found this to just not be possible in Mod 6. The shrines are further apart and the healing demands can get quite high, especially on elite, but thats a completely different matter.

[transtemporal]

Welcome to DDO Sends!!

Unfortunately there are some players who've honed their sense of entitlement to a razor-sharp (almost vorpal) edge and think the world revolves around them and/or their guild. You'll occasionally meet them as a cleric. The best thing you can do is say thanks but no thanks and drop, as Eregion says. Its just not worth the aggravation.

On the other hand, long time players finance their clerics with their high level toons so they just expect everybody else to do the same. Mentioning that this is your first toon to the leader before you start is a pretty good practice. My healer-spec cleric is my second toon and I regularly mention this. It sets the expectation that you probably aren't loaded. Most people change their tune a bit when you tell them this.

The good news is that most players (that i've met) are pretty cool.

And now that you know you can cast higher level spells from scrolls and where to get them from... next time you can totally f*ck with them! Just do it over party chat and not voice, otherwise you'll give the game away by laughing too much.

First of all, ask where you can buy rez scrolls, when they say "house j" say "ok ill go get some brb" then reply 5 min later with "ok, i'm in front of the bank, do i go in?" after they've finished berating you for being a n00b, say "my bad, ill go to house j lol" (nothing will be more annoying to them than a happy n00b) then a couple of minutes later say "i'm stuck" or "he only sells potions" or "there r giants here what do i do?". The more outlandish, but plausible, the better. Anything you think will annoy them the most. Happy hunting!

[Drekisen]

....let me tell u the first thing u need to know about being a great cleric in this game.....you better learn how to give the big FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF off to people who expect level 9 skills out of a level 7 cleric, as well as learn how to drop groups immediatly when u are spoken to like that. OK let's put it this way, my firt time doing the titan thier was me and one other cleric out of the full 12 player group. I didn't know this quest at all, ok. We r not doing that great but most in the group do what they know makes sense, point out to me what is best to do and we get through ok. Well, some ignorant WF'ed barbarian keeps mouthing off about how the clerics are not doing thier job. Guess what...first cleric leaves, I am only one left. Stupid WF'ed barbarian once again makes the statement, "clerics need to get thier s**t together, guess what? I leave, they no longer have a cleric in thier party.
While u will notice in another post I made today in another thread how I think a cleric is not nearly as poor as most people think they are and have maybe only become such because people are ruining thir class by trying to designate them solely to healing and rezzing, I also do not have any sympathy towards ignorant classes that are hard on clerics who are genuinely trying to keep people healed. Not to mention it's a level 8 quest if u where doing it on normal. If the others in the group were good enough to even do that quest, they would not have wiped. Cleric dependent players equal poor players IMO, stay away from them.
Start honing ur other abilities, not just healing and stuff, u will have much more fun being a cleric, and actually be able to contribute more in the long run.

And while I agree with Trans' statement about the xpectaion thing a bit, I find the best people to play with, are the ones who do not expect for the most part at all. They are the best players and the most self sufficent. They do not go into a group with the attitude, "we have a cleric, I don't need any potions", they go into the party with the same amount of potions and EXPECT to have to use them. If they end up not having to, those are the people you are gonna get ur cleric funding donations from.

[Zuldar]

I find that having the party complete one quest without using any consumables at all helps to gauge the quality of the people you're playing with, and if you find them lacking, well you haven't used anything so alls good. Remember it's cheaper to drop group then to use a wand or scroll. Of course, if they give you any wands or scrolls feel free to use those.

[transtemporal]

And while I agree with Trans' statement about the xpectaion thing a bit, I find the best people to play with, are the ones who do not expect for the most part at all. They are the best players and the most self sufficent. They do not go into a group with the attitude, "we have a cleric, I don't need any potions", they go into the party with the same amount of potions and EXPECT to have to use them. If they end up not having to, those are the people you are gonna get ur cleric funding donations from.

Yeah, you're completely right. The best people to play with as a cleric are the people who don't expect (or even need) much healing. As long as you're there in the really tough battles, its sweet.

Agree with the point about not focusing completely on healing too. Even though my healer has all the healing bells and whistles, I also carry a supPot item and maximise for when I need to get a little offensive.

[STROBE]

I'm new to D&D online, but Played it in the 80's when it was popular.

I started a cleric, and enjoyed the game as a new cleric up until the last couple of days. I have actually only been playing a bit more than a week.

My Cleric is level 7 and I was invited to a group to do the Arena. All through the run to the arena some were asking:

<snip>

I really like playing my cleric, but people sure have some misqued expectations. Or are only people that have level 16 mains suposed to be a Cleric as they are the only ones that can afford the class.

Just a few thoughts, from a level 15 cleric, who has used maybe 2 raise dead scrolls ever, in playing clerics since April of 2006.

1. There are different was to play this game. One is the 'maximum-consumable-resources' method like the group you were in. They cheeze their way through the game using obsene quantities of scrolls/wands/potions etc. Their creed is 'trade gold for experience.' And the faster, the better. I hope they have a nice day and I hope I never group with them. And I know they hope they never group with me. To that end I maintain a list of characters and entire guilds that I do not group with. Over time it has significantly improved my enjoyment of the game to avoid grouping with members of certain guilds that are either way to careless for me, or are way to serious about this 'game'.

2. The game allows players to utilize consumable resources to compensate for low or lack of player skill. Some players maximize their consumption of these as a substitute for the use of player skills - even though they have the skills - because it is faster method to complete dungeons and gain xp. Other players utilize consumables as an easy button. Its just easier to have the cleric spam wands and scrolls on them, than for them to develop and employ player skills. Especially if they are not paying for the wands/scrolls.

3. To play a cleric, I don't suppose it is required, but it will certainly help, if you have a thick skin. That goes double if you intend to play in pick-up groups.

4. Don't do quests in which a raise dead is likely to be needed, until you have reached cleric level 9 and receive the spell. This would exclude quests like the Vault of Night series, and Tempest Spine, until you have reached cleric level 9.

5. Most clerics are in guilds, and playing with guild members and people well known to them. Most clerics have checked the anonymous box on the Who Social Panel. Wonder why?

[Impaqt]

I made my first Million(Gold) playing exclusively Cleric. My first Alt was my Rogue build.....

I play a Lot, but my stable now includes 5 Different Clerics, My ROgue, a lowbie Wiz and my Tank.

I have a Lot of Plat.......

But....

I NEVER turn down a Donation.... and I encourage them in my Bio. Being a Cleric is Expensive. Especially for a new player....

Make sure the peple you Group with KNOW your a new player, playing your first character as a cleric..... Most people assume everyone is an alt at l1-110 That you have Money streaming in from your "Main" character(s).

[tihocan]

Don't give up on clerics... we need them to pay our healing/raises!

More seriously, just ignore such comments. Some ppl have just no clue of what it is to play the healer role.

[sigtrent]

Don't buy stuff just because people expect it of you. I only carry raise dead scrolls on characters who can't cast raise dead but want to. I wouldn't expect a level 7 character to have any unless they said they did and I'd never tell anyone to buy anything.

I rather expect anyone who can use a wand to have at least one as you never know when you might need it, but I don't expect them to be healing my every ache and pain with it.

Healing is not a strategy except for very specilized circumstances. Just like "attacking" is not a strategy.

BTW: for the troll the advice is...
A. Kill his apprentice first as it makes him much weaker. You can have someone kite him around while you do that. (kiting is where you get them to chase you but don't let them catch you, often while throwing spells or arrows at the target)
B. Use fire and acid on him in some form
C. Everyone hits him with every bit of damage they can muster all at the same time. Don't kite him around while killing him as he just regens the damage.

I was with a group on my cleric where we had a hard time killing him. I switched from healing to using searing light and nimbus of light and that made the difference in damage more than my healing. Our melee's just wern't killing him fast enough and our wizard didn't quite have the mana to finish him off. With regen creatures its all about just hitting them hard and fast.