Ok, so how's sunburst?

[Mhykke]

After trying a couple new spells, and finding them lacking (greater shout and polar ray), I'm going to swap out again.

My final 2 choices are sunburst and otto's. Otto's I know about, great, if you get past their SR, they're dancing, no save. My thoughts though are that it's fairly limited, against 1 mob...

Sunburst interests me. Reflex save, so I would think it would land fairly well...and it's AOE.....Perm blindness...seems fairly attractive.

I have 2 questions:

1. Has anyone played extensively with sunburst, what do you think?

2. How does blindness work in conjunction with displacement? I've never bothered testing, but does it seem that mobs have to make the blindness check to hit, and then make another check against a character's displacement?

[EspyLacopa]

2. How does blindness work in conjunction with displacement? I've never bothered testing, but does it seem that mobs have to make the blindness check to hit, and then make another check against a character's displacement?

Sunburst causes Blindness on opponent.
Blindness: The character cannot see. He takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class, loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any), moves at half speed, and takes a -4 penalty on Search checks and on most Strength- and Dexterity-based skill checks. All checks and activities that rely on vision (such as reading and Spot checks) automatically fail. All opponents are considered to have total concealment (50% miss chance) to the blinded character. Characters who remain blinded for a long time grow accustomed to these drawbacks and can overcome some of them.

Displacement grants the creature Total Concealment to the affected creature, although enemies are still going to know which square you are in due to how it grants said total concealment (Makes you seem as though you are about 2 feet from your actual location).
Full Concealment: You can’t attack an opponent that has total concealment, though you can attack into a square that you think he occupies. A successful attack into a square occupied by an enemy with total concealment has a 50% miss chance (instead of the normal 20% miss chance for an opponent with concealment).

[Vienemen]

Normally if you cant see (blind), displacement or rather concealment will not matter...i.e. they shouldnt stack. Have not tested it personally.

As far as Sunburst goes...it trades back and forth in my 3rd slot at lvl 16 with Polar Ray. I dont like how turbine does the blind mechanic in this game...AI seems to ignore almost all its effects except the 50% miss chance. But on the other hand it is great as a situational spell...specially vs vampires. I dont see the blind landing very often and the dmg is mediocre without potency.

[EspyLacopa]

Normally if you cant see (blind), displacement or rather concealment will not matter...i.e. they shouldnt stack. Have not tested it personally.

As far as Sunburst goes...it trades back and forth in my 3rd slot at lvl 16 with Polar Ray. I dont like how turbine does the blind mechanic in this game...AI seems to ignore almost all its effects except the 50% miss chance. But on the other hand it is great as a situational spell...specially vs vampires. I dont see the blind landing very often and the dmg is mediocre without potency.

I have found that Blindness works perfectly fine. What I think people forget is that running around, especially in big heavy armor, is noisy. Our enemies are blind, not deaf. If you have a decent move silent skill, and then go into Stealth mode around a blind enemy. . .they can't find you! They wander around a bit, swing at the air where they think you are. . .

[Vienemen]

I have found that Blindness works perfectly fine. What I think people forget is that running around, especially in big heavy armor, is noisy. Our enemies are blind, not deaf. If you have a decent move silent skill, and then go into Stealth mode around a blind enemy. . .they can't find you! They wander around a bit, swing at the air where they think you are. . .

Heh, ok...rarely am I in heavy armor...hell I am rarely more than lightly encumbered. And the fact that I have been shot at and chased down while even standing still...while alone. I am in no way saying that no other effect is present...what I am saying is that turbine gave it more of a hand waving as opposed to an accurate blind effect as it is normally defined, thus reducing its effectiveness for me.

Oh and the deaf part should be requiring listen checks which are MORE difficult in larger combats and at distances. Not to mention the fact that what you wrote kind of makes it sound like you assume they all have listen as a class skill and max ranks.

[Ghoste]

Heh, ok...rarely am I in heavy armor...hell I am rarely more than lightly encumbered. And the fact that I have been shot at and chased down while even standing still...while alone. I am in no way saying that no other effect is present...what I am saying is that turbine gave it more of a hand waving as opposed to an accurate blind effect as it is normally defined, thus reducing its effectiveness for me.

Oh and the deaf part should be requiring listen checks which are MORE difficult in larger combats and at distances. Not to mention the fact that what you wrote kind of makes it sound like you assume they all have listen as a class skill and max ranks.

What's your move silently? If you haven't been investing in that, most creatures have enough listen to find you when you're sneaking, nevermind when you're not.

[MrCow]

But on the other hand it is great as a situational spell...specially vs vampires.

Add these to the list as well along with Vampire:

• Shadow
• Umbral Creature
• Spectre
• Wraith

[EspyLacopa]

Heh, ok...rarely am I in heavy armor...hell I am rarely more than lightly encumbered. And the fact that I have been shot at and chased down while even standing still...while alone. I am in no way saying that no other effect is present...what I am saying is that turbine gave it more of a hand waving as opposed to an accurate blind effect as it is normally defined, thus reducing its effectiveness for me.

Oh and the deaf part should be requiring listen checks which are MORE difficult in larger combats and at distances. Not to mention the fact that what you wrote kind of makes it sound like you assume they all have listen as a class skill and max ranks.

Fun Fact

1. An unarmored person walking at a slow pace (15 ft./round) trying not to make any noise is a DC 10 Listen Check.

So, how much Listen do you think monsters need to be able to guess where you are if you're running around needlessly? Especially if the enemy has a token investment in Listen. Every 10 ft of distance between you and the opponent is a +1 on the DC.

Another side benefit is that blinded enemies automatically qualify for Sneak Attack damage. Rogues will *love* this.

[Ghoste]

Fun Fact

1. An unarmored person walking at a slow pace (15 ft./round) trying not to make any noise is a DC 10 Listen Check.

So, how much Listen do you think monsters need to be able to guess where you are if you're running around needlessly? Especially if the enemy has a token investment in Listen. Every 10 ft of distance between you and the opponent is a +1 on the DC.

Another side benefit is that blinded enemies automatically qualify for Sneak Attack damage. Rogues will *love* this.

That's in PnP. In DDO there is no roll. If their total listen excedes your total move silently, then it's automatic success. So for players who haven't invested in move silently at all, that's a DC 0 they have to overcome.

The greater their listen skill in contrast to your move silently, the greater the distance they'll be able to pinpoint you at.

[Vienemen]

In DDO there is no roll. If their total listen excedes your total move silently, then it's automatic success.

I would bet your pretty accurate with that statement. I have put ranks in MS but it is still single digit.

EspyLacopa I will agree with you on at least one thing though, the sneak atk vs blind targets is nice but my problem is usually not having a full rogue around to make use of it.

MrCow, thanks. Got to add those to the description.

[Deragoth]

Add these to the list as well along with Vampire:

• Shadow
• Umbral Creature
• Spectre
• Wraith

I pop elite shadows consistently with it. The 2 or 3? in Rainbow pop every single time I cast it, and it's fantastic in the orchard. Just be sure they are phasing IN when you start the cast. The animation takes a second, which is my only gripe. I mean, come on, it's a BURST for crying out loud.

[sirgog]

I just find this spell situationally fun to set off when no mobs are near and people haven't seen it before.

Have seen people think that an Eldrich Device in the Shroud has just exploded near them - because I set off a Sunburst on it :-)

Should've got a screenie of the chat log. Was hilarious and well worth wasting my lvl8 slot on (anything else would be a waste too - why oh WHY can't I take another lvl6 spell in that slot - would love chain lightning)

[Kaldais]

It's the only spell that does light damage in an arcane caster's arsenal.

[Angelus_dead]

Sunburst interests me. Reflex save, so I would think it would land fairly well...and it's AOE.....Perm blindness...seems fairly attractive.

Unfortunately, Sunburst also has an unlisted Fortitude save. Monster must fail both reflex AND fort to get blinded.

[Ghoste]

Unfortunately, Sunburst also has an unlisted Fortitude save. Monster must fail both reflex AND fort to get blinded.

If that is the case,then that would be a bug.

[Mhykke]

I've been playing w/ it a lot, and so far, it's the single 8th lvl spell that my sorc will keep.

If it does have a fort. save, I hope that's fixed soon.

[EspyLacopa]

If that is the case,then that would be a bug.

It would explain why I get all red numbers on enemies (noone made the reflex save to half the light damage), and some aren't blinded.

I'm guessing it's either a separate Fort save as you say, or simply a second Reflex Save.

In fact. . .that's probably how it's implemented. A number of reflex saves, one for each effect that it does.

1: Reflex or Blind
2: Reflex or 6d6 to non-undead and non-ooze
3: Reflex or Caster d6 to undead and ooze
4: Reflex or Kill to Vamps/other light sensitive enemies

One or two may be combined. . .it explains why you hit enemies with it, and even though they aren't immune to the spell itself, it frequently says immune to *something*

[Aranticus]

OP, u tested greater shout in devils yet? if not, let me tell ya its awesome

[Mhykke]

OP, u tested greater shout in devils yet? if not, let me tell ya its awesome

Yeah, played w/ greater shout. Liked the effect. Didn't like the AOE of it though. I wasn't big on the cone. Was my last 8th lvl spell b4 switching to sunburst.