Soul-less?

[Borrigain]

So, Brutous and I were having this discussion regarding Warforged. Well, frankly, they scare me. Like something out of a horror movie or sci-fi. Not living. However, we know they ARE:

from wiki:

The warforged are one of the playable races of creatures in the Eberron campaign setting for the Dungeons & Dragons role-playing game.

The warforged are a race of living, sentient constructs superficially similar to golems. warforged are composed of a blend of materials: predominantly stone, wood, and some type of metal. These components take on unnatural properties during the warforged-creation process. Some warforged are able to alter their shapes somewhat and produce spikes. Interestingly, materials used to repair a damaged warforged take on the properties of the materials already present in the warforged. Conversly, any materials removed from the husk of a non-functional warforged decay rapidly, and are unfit for any other use.

Now, I'm pretty sure since they are made of wood they can get soggy when wet, but the point is.......

Nowhere does it mention they have a "soul".

Last I checked, constructs are basically programmable. AI can possibly "learn", but to "feel".......I don't know.

Ever heard the phrase, "The eyes are the gateway to the soul"?

Look at the following eyes:

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...in/wfsmall.jpg

Now look at these eyes:

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p...obot_small.jpg

Similar? You'd better believe it. And since we know that the T1000 had no soul, it's safe to surmise that......

Warforged have no SOULS!

Scary huh? No wonder they creep me out, with their twitchin' and their shifty eyes.

But that's just me and my worthless opinion. What do YOU think?

Discuss,

Borr.

P.S. where did the insert picture button go?

[Yvonne_Blacksword]

Canno fuhind eet.
Itink ih whirr eeton.
Espresso, not care...
<pout>

[Brutous]

They do have a soul...I know they do... I know they do... Just need more time to research it..

Any volunteer WF's out there?

[Borrigain]

No they don't.....keep lookin'


And Yvonne, I think MT is on vacation today.....buwhahahahahah.



Show me the "proof",
Borr.

[Aesop]

I believe the writers left that hazy to let the DM/Players decide... I personally believe that they are inhabited by the Souls of Dead Heroes that escaped from that Study Hall that Eberron calls an Afterlife to live again as Heroes


Aesop

[Borrigain]

I believe the writers left that hazy to let the DM/Players decide... I personally believe that they are inhabited by the Souls of Dead Heroes that escaped from that Study Hall that Eberron calls an Afterlife to live again as Heroes


Aesop

See? either way.....still creepy .

/shiver


Borr.

[Jack_No.7]

hmmm i say they have a soul

we are nothing but flesh and bone yet we have a soul why?

wf are made of livewood , metal and other odds and ends why dont they have a soul?

im more under the impression that the soul is derived from ones actions and being.
what motivates u to do what u do(when left choices) is essencially ur soul, warforged have motivation ( for what i dont know especially with what there women are like)

plus i mean they are birthed in creation forges... theres something else then electricity thats makes them decide to become a cleric or barbarian or wizard

well thats my 2 cents anyways

[Symar-FangofLloth]

If I recall correctly...
They CAN be brought back from the dead, which implies a soul. However, they have no recollections of any sort of afterlife when such a thing happens, therefore bringing up more questions.
The first warforged, or at least the earliest we know of, really, were created by the Quori to use a host vessels on the material plane. These warforged did not have souls, and were not anything more than an empty, lifeless construct. (Although they may have moved around and such like other non-living constructs do, who knows.) The boss of Prison of the Planes is a Quori-possessed warforged. We defeat his body, but chances are high we don't even touch the true Quori and we merely banish him away, or something.

Anyway, that's my input.

[Yvonne_Blacksword]

No they don't.....keep lookin'


And Yvonne, I think MT is on vacation today.....buwhahahahahah.



Show me the "proof",
Borr.

Hew har meeheen
Espresso huhate hew.
<Grrrr....>


I know I read it some where...in a thread...but I searched for an hour and couldn't find it...
It was only one of many fruitless searches on Friday.

[Hvymetal]

Come now, EVERYONE knows that it is really Dwarves that have no souls. The beard takes up too much space there was no space left for a soul....

[Aesop]

Come now, EVERYONE knows that it is really Dwarves that have no souls. The beard takes up too much space there was no space left for a soul....

There aren't chins under dwarves' beards... just another Axe

Aesop

[Ghoste]

from Dragonshard Archives: The Warforged, Part 1
Composition and insignia are elements that many warforged may share. But every warforged has one unique feature: the sigil engraved on its forehead. These symbols are as individual as human fingerprints, and if a warforged possesses the ability to cast arcane mark, its personal mark will be the same as the sigil on its forehead. These symbols were not designed by human hands. When Aaren d'Cannith's first construct emerged from the creation forge, it bore a symbol on its forehead, and the second had a different sigil. Aaren's dedicated dwarven magewrights called these symbols "ghulra," a Dwarven word for "truth."

Warforged adopt names to deal with humans, but when dealing with each other, the ghulra serves as an important form of identification. A warforged may wear a hood to conceal its forehead from strangers, but when among friends most prefer to leave the symbol visible. While someone could gouge away the symbol, the ghulra is a part of the warforged in a way nobody truly understands; when someone uses repair or cure spells on the warforged, a damaged ghulra is restored to its original shape. While it cannot be permanently destroyed, a warforged can cover its ghulra or may choose to use Disguise to place a false mark over its real one.

One of many signs that warforged have souls.

Other things to consider: raise dead spells work on warforged. They do not work on creatures without souls, such as non living constructs, and should not work, in my opinion, on dwarves.

[Ghoste]

See? either way.....still creepy .

/shiver


Borr.

You have no idea, hairy little one.

[RemoJr]

WF do have souls. Consider the cure and inflict spells. The cure spells target the body with positive energy, the inflict spells target the soul with negative energy. The reason WF have only half healing but full infliction is that their bodies arn't quite normal, so the cure spell doesn't work all the way, however the inflict spells target their soul, which takes full damage. We can see this working in this manner when applied to full constructs. They have a body of materials and no soul, so niether spells affect them. The only way a WF could be considered souless is when they progress far enough in the warforged juggernaut prestidge class to gain negative energy immunity, which may be because they have lost their soul (this is up for arguement and will ultimatlly be up to the individual DM to decide).

[Levowitz]

The Lord of Blades has become a deity. If he has become a deity, it means he had a soul to begin with -- and in having one, so too do the other forged.

[Ghoste]

With the new spell, Trap the Soul, some warforged are going to be carrying around a lot of extra souls.

The Lord of Blades has become a deity. If he has become a deity, it means he had a soul to begin with -- and in having one, so too do the other forged.

He is a figurehead, not a deity. In Eberron, clerics and paladins can follow higher causes and groups of god, not just a specific god.

The warforged deity is the Becoming God.

[Levowitz]

With the new spell, Trap the Soul, some warforged are going to be carrying around a lot of extra souls.


He is a figurehead, not a deity. In Eberron, clerics and paladins can follow higher causes and groups of god, not just a specific god.

The warforged deity is the Becoming God.

Incorrect. If you recall, a Paladin does not wake up and decide to become a paladin. He is BORN to become a Paladin.

"I, like god, do not play with dice nor believe in coincidence."

[Ghoste]

Incorrect. If you recall, a Paladin does not wake up and decide to become a paladin. He is BORN to become a Paladin.

"I, like god, do not play with dice nor believe in coincidence."

As far as paladins, it's not just Eberron where they need not follow a god to be a paladin.

From the Player's Handbook Pg 43:

Religion: Paladins need not devote themselves to a
single deity—devotion to righteousness is enough.

And clerics in Eberron: here is a link for you. At the bottom of the page you will find this passage which also references the Eberron Campaign Setting book.

As described on page 35 of the Eberron Campaign Setting, it is possible for a cleric to have no god and still perform divine magic. This is not, however, the same as having no beliefs; it still requires a strong commitment to an ideal or a philosophy. The cleric needs to devise his own system of belief and explain how it justifies the domains he has selected, and the DM always has the authority to disallow a combination of domains. The goal is to allow a broad range of personal faiths -- like the warforged developing their own religions -- not to encourage players to pick domains based solely on granted abilities.

And lastly, the Lord of Blades is no god. He is a pretender who will fall in line when the becoming god reveals himself.

[Levowitz]

I concede that I was incorrect about the Lord of Blades; however, I believe that as they are living beings, they have souls. Anything you can perform a resurrection on, must have a soul.

Wait, an edit! Devotion to righteousness sir, as you've listed, is a requirement for Paladins. A Paladin who serves the Lord of Blades hardly seems a righteous sort, lest it is the blessed righteousness of rendering fleshbags to their place as lesser, inferior farm animals is -divine will- of a -god-.

[Ghoste]

I concede that I was incorrect about the Lord of Blades; however, I believe that as they are living beings, they have souls. Anything you can perform a resurrection on, must have a soul.

Wait, an edit! Devotion to righteousness sir, as you've listed, is a requirement for Paladins. A Paladin who serves the Lord of Blades hardly seems a righteous sort, lest it is the blessed righteousness of rendering fleshbags to their place as lesser, inferior farm animals is -divine will- of a -god-.

Yes, that is the will of a god. But the Lord of Blades is not that god. You describe the will of the Becoming God: to raise his living construct children to their rightful place in Eberron.

Even if that weren't the case, your argument does not make the Lord of Blades a god. It would just mean the paladins who follow him believe his cause to be righteous, in which case it still boils down to his cause, not the Lord of Blades himself being the source of divinity.

*Edit: The Lord of Blades serves his god well, though not overtly. And for the time being that serves the Will of the Becoming God who prefers to quietly gather his strength. The Lord of Blades diverts unwanted attention, yet still pursues the same ends. Though a pretender, he will always have a place in the new order.