The experiment

[ErgonomicCat]

I popped over to a new server to roll myself some clerics, since my only experience with them was my abortive 4 level run in my first couple weeks.

I built a healbot, a traditional cleric, a true battle cleric (based off Impaqt's Eyeam), and an offensive caster cleric.

I played them all a little bit (up to level 3), but I have to say that the offensive caster is just amazingly fun. This is what I expected to feel like playing a WF sorc.

Heavy armor + shield means I actually have a reasonable AC (although being a new server, I'm running with +1 half-plate and a +2 heavy shield so far). Reasonable HP mean I'm not 2 shotted. Self-heals are just fun. And I'm truly surprised at how effective Nimbus of Light is. At level 1/2, I think I'd call it the best damage spell out there. At level 1, it's 1d10 vs 1d8+1, which is Nimbus' favor. At level 2, it's 2d10 vs 1d8 +2 (11 vs 6.5), but Nimbus has no save, which is very nice. But the fact that I can blast someone twice with Nimbus, then wail on them relatively effectively with my void lore mace is just spifftastic.

I got a couple of tells for groups with comments like "We really need a healer - can you do that?" since my comment was "Offensive Caster Cleric - Think of me as a Sorc" And one I played healer, to a degree (but played with a good team, so being a healer was really irrelevant to them). The other we picked up another cleric right after.

The number of times I got comments like "Hey, nice Command" or "Who's killing things with that sparkle thing?" was pretty impressive.

I may well be a convert at this point. Eyeam is running pretty well too, but the healbot bores me, just like my original did. The only one I'm not sure about is the "pure" cleric. I suspect that I'm going to end up finding it too much of a middle of the road class, where I personally don't want to be watching red bars while trying to fight and cast. Also, the lack of cash for wands will probably hurt a lot.

[transtemporal]

Ohhhh... a nuker cleric... like a nuker sorc except with armor and healing... thats an interesting idea.

I guess the question I have is, what advantages does a nuker cleric have over a nuker sorc? A nuker sorc can cast faster and has probably twice a nuker clerics spell points. On paper at least it seems like a less efficient way of achieving the same effect, unless theres some killer advanatge a nuker clr has. I don't mean to criticise your build EC, just kinda thinking out loud.

[smodge13]

i been thinking of making a nuker myself, advantage of nuker cleric over sorc is you are more durable, armour + hp + heals = win, sorcerors will do more damage and have higher sp count, but at the end of the day you can res them and they cant.

[Arnya]

My pure drow cleric is a caster as such. Lvl10 at the moment.

Not so many DD spells but CC and holds/debuffs mainly.

I warn PUGs that I'm an offensive caster and haven't had any complaints yet, although I DO heal and rez when called for. Loudly LOL

One of my favourite characters, can you tell sorc is my favoured class?

[transtemporal]

advantage of nuker cleric over sorc is you are more durable, armour + hp + heals = win

I'm thinking more what can a nuker cleric offer the party that a nuker sorc can't? If I'm a party leader and I'm looking for a nuker and both are available, I'll probably go for the sorc unless I know a nuker cleric has some kind of distinct advantage. For example: say a cleric nuker can throw maxed/emped/empHealed inflicts which cause an exotic type of damage that not many mobs have resistance to (not sure what kind of damage inflicts do actually). That would be a good reason to get a nuker cleric.

I guess the difference is, the nuker cleric might cast a few cures or a res at a pinch?

[Hvymetal]

Also different spell selections. A nuking Cleric would in my opinion be better off compared to a nuking Wizard. Unlike a Sorceror we can switch out our spells at a moments notice (and a tavern or a shrine) to adjust to the quest.

[oronisi]

I don't think you'll get a good feel for how they really play out until the upper levels. For instance, an offensive cleric does not have access to high damage spells comparable to the lowbie nimbus. So you are really doing more instant-kills, crowd control, and melee.

Also, there's no reason why you can't heal and fight at the same time. I'm not saying you should babysit the party's health bar, but you can learn to fight while glancing at the health bars and spot-healing those in dire need. Of all the different types, my favorite is the offensive casting cleric, which is just as effective in healing (minus critical heals), that does CC and instakill, then follows it with melee as supplemental damage once the enemies can't swing back. I find it very efficient, effective, and fun to play compared to the other kinds of cleric.

[ErgonomicCat]

I don't think you'll get a good feel for how they really play out until the upper levels. For instance, an offensive cleric does not have access to high damage spells comparable to the lowbie nimbus. So you are really doing more instant-kills, crowd control, and melee.

Also, there's no reason why you can't heal and fight at the same time. I'm not saying you should babysit the party's health bar, but you can learn to fight while glancing at the health bars and spot-healing those in dire need. Of all the different types, my favorite is the offensive casting cleric, which is just as effective in healing (minus critical heals), that does CC and instakill, then follows it with melee as supplemental damage once the enemies can't swing back. I find it very efficient, effective, and fun to play compared to the other kinds of cleric.

That's what the offensive caster brings to the party, I think.

They're about the equivalent of a sorc with a high UMD, in that they can use wands and scrolls, can throw an emergency heal, etc.

Plus, they're a *lot* less squishy, and when they need to, they throw down the melee (which I know some sorcs can do, but you have heavy armor and a 3/4 bab, vs robes and 1/2.).

As for spell selection, let's see:

They get light (Nimbus of Light - 1, Searing Light - 3), negative energy (Inflict X/Harm - 1-7), good (Deific Vengeance - 2), Sonic (Sound Burst - 2), Chaotic (? - Chaos Hammer - 4), Holy (Holy Smite - 4), Lawful (? - Order's Wrath, 4), fire (Symbol of Flame - 4, Pillar of Flame - 5), unholy (? Unholy Blight, 4), untyped (5 - Slay Living, 6 - BB, ? Glyph of Warding - 6, ? Destruction - 7), Bludgeon (6, Cometfall)

So it actually is a fair chunk of exotic types. They don't get crits, they do get the +% damage from enhancements. Heightened level 2 and 4 spells for a true neutral cleric seems to be where it's at, really. You get sonic, good, chaotic, holy, lawful, fire, negative and unholy. And then there's blade barrier.

I don't know for sure how it will work, but it's a blast at lower levels.

[Impaqt]

So it actually is a fair chunk of exotic types. They don't get crits, they do get the +% damage from enhancements. Heightened level 2 and 4 spells for a true neutral cleric seems to be where it's at, really. You get sonic, good, chaotic, holy, lawful, fire, negative and unholy. And then there's blade barrier.

I don't know for sure how it will work, but it's a blast at lower levels.

Who Doesnt get Crits? Clerics absolutly get Crits.. Natrually on Positive(Healing), Negative(Harm, Inflict), and Good (Nimbus, Searing) and Everything can be critted if you have a GreenBlade or Blue Dragon Armor.

[ErgonomicCat]

Who Doesnt get Crits? Clerics absolutly get Crits.. Natrually on Positive(Healing), Negative(Harm, Inflict), and Good (Nimbus, Searing) and Everything can be critted if you have a GreenBlade or Blue Dragon Armor.

I meant the crit enhancements, sorry. Sorc/Wiz get the Deadly whatever path, which increases their crits.

And my highest is level 6, so I know not what you speak of with the Greenblade and Blue Dragon Armor.

[oronisi]

They get light (Nimbus of Light - 1, Searing Light - 3), negative energy (Inflict X/Harm - 1-7), good (Deific Vengeance - 2), Sonic (Sound Burst - 2), Chaotic (? - Chaos Hammer - 4), Holy (Holy Smite - 4), Lawful (? - Order's Wrath, 4), fire (Symbol of Flame - 4, Pillar of Flame - 5), unholy (? Unholy Blight, 4), untyped (5 - Slay Living, 6 - BB, ? Glyph of Warding - 6, ? Destruction - 7), Bludgeon (6, Cometfall)

What I was trying to say was that I don't think that those spells pan out to be effective or an efficient use of SP towards the later levels. Well, destruction, slay living are instakill, damage is negligable...cometfall, sound burst, and holy smite are useful for their secondary effects.

Don't get me wrong, I love having damaging spells for when you are in a jam, but as a standard action of a cleric, I don't think you are getting any where near the best 'bang for the buck' trying to be a sorceror in platemail.

[Impaqt]

What I was trying to say was that I don't think that those spells pan out to be effective or an efficient use of SP towards the later levels. Well, destruction, slay living are instakill, damage is negligable...cometfall, sound burst, and holy smite are useful for their secondary effects.

Don't get me wrong, I love having damaging spells for when you are in a jam, but as a standard action of a cleric, I don't think you are getting any where near the best 'bang for the buck' trying to be a sorceror in platemail.

Get good at Kiting Mobs and the only spell you need to be as effective as a Sorc is Blade Barier. FIrewalls do good Damage... But dont compare to dragging a mob through a Blade barier 6 or 7 times

I meant the crit enhancements, sorry. Sorc/Wiz get the Deadly whatever path, which increases their crits.

And my highest is level 6, so I know not what you speak of with the Greenblade and Blue Dragon Armor.

CLerics have Enhanments for Criting their Positive/Negative spells and "Good" spells....

[Deaths_ward]

What I was trying to say was that I don't think that those spells pan out to be effective or an efficient use of SP towards the later levels. Well, destruction, slay living are instakill, damage is negligable...cometfall, sound burst, and holy smite are useful for their secondary effects.

Don't get me wrong, I love having damaging spells for when you are in a jam, but as a standard action of a cleric, I don't think you are getting any where near the best 'bang for the buck' trying to be a sorceror in platemail.

Look again Destructions untyped damage is 10d6, no half damage or anything it's die or take 10-60 damage, not great, but still good.

[Flicken]

Look again Destructions untyped damage is 10d6, no half damage or anything it's die or take 10-60 damage, not great, but still good.

A ranged insta death spell is not great???

[transtemporal]

What I was trying to say was that I don't think that those spells pan out to be effective or an efficient use of SP towards the later levels. Well, destruction, slay living are instakill, damage is negligable...cometfall, sound burst, and holy smite are useful for their secondary effects.

Don't get me wrong, I love having damaging spells for when you are in a jam, but as a standard action of a cleric, I don't think you are getting any where near the best 'bang for the buck' trying to be a sorceror in platemail.

I agree with you Oronisi, thats the point I was going to make. Good DPS but maybe not nuker-sorc-good. Good instakill capability.

However, (thinking out loud) the flipside of a healbot casting maxed/emped/empHealed, LifeMagic IV cures & heals* is a nasty null cleric (was that what they were called?) casting maxed/emped/empHealed inflicts & harms*... Sure its only single target and they get a save, but it might be a fairly attractive tactical nuking option?

I guess conventional wisdom says why cast inflict/harm on mobs for half effect, when you can cast cure/heal on your friends for full effect?

*I know maximise and empower don't affect Harm/Heal, just there to cover cure spells

[ErgonomicCat]

I agree with you Oronisi, thats the point I was going to make. Good DPS but maybe not nuker-sorc-good. Good instakill capability.

However, (thinking out loud) the flipside of a healbot casting maxed/emped/empHealed, LifeMagic IV cures & heals* is a nasty null cleric (was that what they were called?) casting maxed/emped/empHealed inflicts & harms*... Sure its only single target and they get a save, but it might be a fairly attractive tactical nuking option?

I guess conventional wisdom says why cast inflict/harm on mobs for half effect, when you can cast cure/heal on your friends for full effect?

*I know maximise and empower don't affect Harm/Heal, just there to cover cure spells

Personally, I don't have any issue with swapping over to Instakill at the higher levels.

[transtemporal]

Personally, I don't have any issue with swapping over to Instakill at the higher levels.

Ha ha, I bet! I'm kinda interested in this because I'm missing my nuker sorc in end boss battles. With him, 15 seconds and the boss is down. I play with a short man group quite a bit and our tank just doesn't have the DPS of a nuker sorc. We did STK to the very end fairly easy but got smashed by the boss. I thought "If my sorc had been here we would have wasted him..."

[Geonis]

I popped over to a new server to roll myself some clerics, since my only experience with them was my abortive 4 level run in my first couple weeks.

I built a healbot, a traditional cleric, a true battle cleric (based off Impaqt's Eyeam), and an offensive caster cleric.

I played them all a little bit (up to level 3), but I have to say that the offensive caster is just amazingly fun. This is what I expected to feel like playing a WF sorc.

Heavy armor + shield means I actually have a reasonable AC (although being a new server, I'm running with +1 half-plate and a +2 heavy shield so far). Reasonable HP mean I'm not 2 shotted. Self-heals are just fun. And I'm truly surprised at how effective Nimbus of Light is. At level 1/2, I think I'd call it the best damage spell out there. At level 1, it's 1d10 vs 1d8+1, which is Nimbus' favor. At level 2, it's 2d10 vs 1d8 +2 (11 vs 6.5), but Nimbus has no save, which is very nice. But the fact that I can blast someone twice with Nimbus, then wail on them relatively effectively with my void lore mace is just spifftastic.

I got a couple of tells for groups with comments like "We really need a healer - can you do that?" since my comment was "Offensive Caster Cleric - Think of me as a Sorc" And one I played healer, to a degree (but played with a good team, so being a healer was really irrelevant to them). The other we picked up another cleric right after.

The number of times I got comments like "Hey, nice Command" or "Who's killing things with that sparkle thing?" was pretty impressive.

I may well be a convert at this point. Eyeam is running pretty well too, but the healbot bores me, just like my original did. The only one I'm not sure about is the "pure" cleric. I suspect that I'm going to end up finding it too much of a middle of the road class, where I personally don't want to be watching red bars while trying to fight and cast. Also, the lack of cash for wands will probably hurt a lot.

My Caster Cleric is capped and has been for a while.

At the lower levels, use your enhancements for the Wand/Scroll enhancements, and heal with wands.

After you get Heal, swap your enhancements for the "Cure/Inflict" line, and get the Scepter of Healing from Invaders and the best Potency ( I use a Greater 6 myself ), also get a Superior Void Lore ( I can hit the end boss of POP for well over 500 with a Harm ). This not only helps with Heal, but Harm and Cometfall, as well as Blade Barrier. You can have a blast at this point, between Harm, Cometfall, Blade Barrier, and only needing to throw a Heal occasionally, you have plenty of chance for offensive casting.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I made an offensive spell casting cleric on Argo (Drkpriestess AlmostEvilBattleClr). Only lvl4 so far. Did Tangleroot with another healing cleric in the group....no mage so I chose soundburst and hold person as my staples.
I think the only reason the healing cleric ever had to shrine was to give me more DVs! We did quite well....and I had a huge kill count too.

But I've also down Tangleroot with a CC based Sor with outstanding results as well. I won't say the cleric is better, but it is fun to try something different for a change.