Permadeath Archer/Rogue (A build by Request)

[sigtrent]

From Sigtrent's Build Request Thread

Build Name: Ironbow
Author: Sigfried Trent
Requester: Findecano
Last Updated: 07/13/10

Key Words [Permadeath, Arcane Archer, Barbarian, Ranger]

Objectives
The request was for a 28pt archer who could do “massive damage” and disable traps, pick locks, self heal, self buff and was built for permadeath play. This is a tricky combo to pull off. You must have rogue and you need a good number of skill points, int and dex to pull off the trap/lock side of things. You need a healing class which means adding some wisdom. For archery you want strength and dex. To survive in permadeath you want a good number of hit points.

Design
My first take was a bard/ranger/fighter and while decent it was rather squishy and didn’t really put out “massive damage” as a ranged combatant. But the game is a bit different now and so is my take on the request. This time I am not self casting heals but relying on UMD and wand use. In exchange I’m adding a lot of durability from barbarian levels and the toughness feat. Ranger powers the feats and a dash of rogue grants the base trap skills and early evasion.

Arcane archer, decent strength, ranger feats, elf enhancements, and barbarian rage provide the damage. DPS should be decent both with a bow and with a falchion or scimitar. Final hip points are decent, but early hip points are quite good. In many ways the early levels are all about survival and the later levels about rounding out the build’s combat skils.

Saves are pretty decent and AC shouldn’t be too shabby for low and mid levels. Evasion comes early which is important for survival. Rogue skills are pretty decent if not exceptional.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.5.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Neutral Good Elf Male
(6 Barbarian \ 3 Rogue \ 11 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 300
Spell Points: 265 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 16
Will: 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    19
Dexterity            14                    18
Constitution         13                    15
Intelligence         14                    14
Wisdom               12                    12
Charisma              8                     8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                    11
Bluff                -1                    -1
Concentration         1                     2
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device        6                    26
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                  3                     9
Hide                  5                     8
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  6                    10
Listen                1                     3
Move Silently         6                     8
Open Lock             6                    23
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                     2
Search                6                    30
Spot                  5                    23
Swim                  2                     4
Tumble                3                     5
Use Magic Device      3                    22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Reptillian
Enhancement: Ranger Energy Resistence Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger Search I


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I


Level 4 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Elven Perception I


Level 5 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Reduction Boost I
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 7 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Ranger Spot I
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I


Level 8 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Ranger Search II
Enhancement: Ranger Energy of the Wild I


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I


Level 10 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I


Level 11 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Ranger Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Enhancement: Elven Ranged Damage II


Level 13 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity II


Level 14 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
Enhancement: Valenar Elf Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows


Level 15 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II


Level 16 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage III


Level 17 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
Enhancement: Barbarian Hardy Rage I
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows


Level 18 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness II


Level 19 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II


Level 20 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II
Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution II

Play
Playing this permadeath will require skill and awareness. It has a lot of little tools to aid survival but you have to use them wisely and you need to shop smart to get healing supplies as early as you can manage to. Also keep those rogue skills up as much as you can with item boosts. Blowing a trap box could be bad times and permadeath tends to push the envelope.

Variations
A non perma-death 32pt version of this would be more robust and focused, starting with lower wisdom and higher strength/con.

[Spakerman]

He looks fragile but he also looks fun to play in a permadeath setting... and by "fun" I mean "nervewracking"!

definitely a challenge and will probably take a couple rerolls to get him past 5 or 6.

[Sydril]

Nimble fingers and skill focus search at 1 and 3? Screw that. if you blow a trap you'll probably be able to figure out a way around it. Toughness at 1 and toughness again at 3 would be more fitting. Glassjaws don't last long in pd. other than that its not bad. I'd consider switching ranger 2 and bard 1 at level 3 if you plan on ranging a fair bit early on. in pd its a quick road to 3 and that level 4 mark is a bit of a hill. another reason to take toughness twice.

[sigtrent]

Nimble fingers and skill focus search at 1 and 3? Screw that. if you blow a trap you'll probably be able to figure out a way around it. Toughness at 1 and toughness again at 3 would be more fitting. Glassjaws don't last long in pd. other than that its not bad. I'd consider switching ranger 2 and bard 1 at level 3 if you plan on ranging a fair bit early on. in pd its a quick road to 3 and that level 4 mark is a bit of a hill. another reason to take toughness twice.

I don't play permadeath so I wouldn't know too much about what makes one survivable in it or not. I imagine it often has more to do wtih the player than the character when all is said and done. Toughtness at level 1 is what.. 3hp? Doesn't seem like all that much of an edge, I suppose if you took it twice...

Anyhow my thought was that a PD character doesn't have access to twinked out gear and starting out the traps can be rather hard to search out so those feats would be handy. Also there wasn't much in the way of combat feats that would have been especialy usefull. I can certainly see an argument for toughness although if HP were my concern I'd make less of a do it all character and go with a dwarven rogue or the like.

[Sydril]

I don't play permadeath so I wouldn't know too much about what makes one survivable in it or not. I imagine it often has more to do wtih the player than the character when all is said and done. Toughtness at level 1 is what.. 3hp? Doesn't seem like all that much of an edge, I suppose if you took it twice...

Anyhow my thought was that a PD character doesn't have access to twinked out gear and starting out the traps can be rather hard to search out so those feats would be handy. Also there wasn't much in the way of combat feats that would have been especialy usefull. I can certainly see an argument for toughness although if HP were my concern I'd make less of a do it all character and go with a dwarven rogue or the like.

yes toughness at level 1 is +3 hp. not much but its the difference between being at -9 and -12 hp. at level 3 two toughness feats on this build would be +10 hp you can swap one out later for free if you really have to.

Yes PD is 90% player ability and 10% actual build but that 10% can be the difference between getting killed and having to start all over. You're not guaranteed a lesser false life item, or cloven jaw war beads or anything fancy like that. at level 3 this build has 43 HP. A single good crit could kill you from some mobs. Either way if you're building a character for PD you need to focus on surviving to level 4 first and think about other stuff later. Try it sometime, just roll up some random scrub and see how far you can make it without getting killed.

There's probably a few PD players out there that would disagree with me but most would agree you need to think about survivability first.

[Sojourner]

Nimble fingers and skill focus search at 1 and 3? Screw that. if you blow a trap you'll probably be able to figure out a way around it. Toughness at 1 and toughness again at 3 would be more fitting.

I'd have to recommend staying with sigtrent's original build. Unless you're pure rogue, you really want to have those feats. Especially for low-level permadeath play where blowing a trapbox can sometimes mean serious injury that has to be healed, and having to run through a trap can mean death.

We lost our bard the other day doing Catacombs on elite - because the trap protecting one portion of the book hit him for 70 points at once. Having 3 extra points might not have been enough to save him there, but disabling that trap would have been.


Personally, if I was the person requesting the build, I would forget about all buffs except ranger buffs and go Rogue-1/Ranger-13.

But, given this build - I would probably go Rogue/Ranger/Ranger/Bard for the first 4 levels. If you are planning on being ranged damage, you want the Rapid-Shot from Ranger level 2 as soon as possible. And that will also give you TWF a level earlier. Bard level 1 is going to give you a song, but no other real buffs.

[Sydril]

Even in PD theres room for a lot of different views. good stuff. I'd still stick with more hp early on and swap out one later as needed. To each his own.

[sigtrent]

Feat swapping can definately be a good way to go wtih a lot of builds if you have the shards hanging around. Done a lot of that with my own characters.

Anyhow, I appreciate the advice and I hope its usefull for the requester to consider. I don't have any real PD experience in DDO.

I would say that generaly speaking my low level characters hardly ever die unless I'm trying to solo butchers path or something equaly ambitions. I usualy don't twink them up until level 4 or so as there isn't much point in doing so since the first 3 levels are pretty quick and easy, even if soloing unless you have an especialy soft character.

I tend to get killed most often in mid and high levels where you start seeing ogres and the like who can crit for insane piles of damage.

[Riddikulus]

Personally, if I was the person requesting the build, I would forget about all buffs except ranger buffs and go Rogue-1/Ranger-13.

I agree. I don't think bard brings what you want to the table here, and is sucking off build points for CHA that can be used elsewhere.

The ranger level gives you the ability to self heal via wands... there really isn't a need for anything further for that.

[Sydril]

Feat swapping can definately be a good way to go wtih a lot of builds if you have the shards hanging around.

Remember You're guaranteed one free swap as well.

[sigtrent]

I agree. I don't think bard brings what you want to the table here, and is sucking off build points for CHA that can be used elsewhere.

The ranger level gives you the ability to self heal via wands... there really isn't a need for anything further for that.

I would disagree. Both bard and ranger have some advantages for a build like this but they are very different ones. Bard actualy has more offensive power with the exception of manyshot which is pretty nice. Bard has a lot more casting power than ranger. Ranger offers much better feat selection. Bard has the more well rounded saving throws. The self healing from wands won't cut it in the heat of battle but Cure Serious and a 20% bonus is going to be much faster and powerful and you can cast it without switching gear.

You also need to wait much longer to pick up evasion which is pretty essential for a trapper.

Rogue 1 / Ranger 13 is a great build but it's very different, less defensive and slower to develop. Certainly easier to play and build.

[Findecano]

Pretty good based off the limited info I had given you. However, I should have given you more information. I don't want or even need the extra stuff that a Bard brings to the table. When I said buffs, I more or less meant that I want to be able to use my Ranger buffs effectively. I'd rather have the feats a Ranger gets throughout the levels, than be able to hypno or CLW earlier than normal.

[sigtrent]

Always be carefull what you ask for

[JinxedWarrior]

This seems to be a very old build and I'm not sure if this is a good build with all the new mods. I am looking for a long range ranger/rogue/bard with similar capabilities as this build. I like the ability to cast heals, haste, and simple buffs, as well as the lock picking, and trap disabling utilities, I would like to use a repeating crossbow and melee as an option or in easier battles. Good dexterity and strength is appreciated in this build. I noticed this build stopped at lvl 14, is there a specific class I should continue after 14??

[sigtrent]

Someone asked about this build so I thought I would bump it in cast folks had thoughts on an update or variations. Keep in mind it was built to be a kind of high durability archer with rogue skills for a FtP account.

[sbeehre]

Someone asked about this build so I thought I would bump it in cast folks had thoughts on an update or variations. Keep in mind it was built to be a kind of high durability archer with rogue skills for a FtP account.

I know this is an old thread now but do you think you could include the skill point increases for each level?

[UtherSRG]

I would *LOVE* to see this updated for U20 as this is quite close to the kind of character I most prefer to play....

My first character was a pure ranged Rogue. When Enhancements first came online, I splashed Wiz and made one of the first arcane archers in the game... this was back when the level cap was 14 or 16....

Now, I'd like to start up playing again, and having a more optimized version of the character would be awesome!

[UtherSRG]

I would *LOVE* to see this updated for U20 as this is quite close to the kind of character I most prefer to play....

My first character was a pure ranged Rogue. When Enhancements first came online, I splashed Wiz and made one of the first arcane archers in the game... this was back when the level cap was 14 or 16....

Now, I'd like to start up playing again, and having a more optimized version of the character would be awesome!

So I took a quick stab at it....

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 04.20.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Azyyaarog 
Level 20 Neutral Good Elf Female
(6 Barbarian \ 3 Rogue \ 11 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 268
Spell Points: 145 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 15
Reflex: 17
Will: 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    17
Dexterity            14                    21
Constitution         14                    15
Intelligence         14                    14
Wisdom               12                    12
Charisma             10                    10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                    14
Bluff                 0                     0
Concentration         2                     2
Diplomacy             0                     0
Disable Device        6                    28
Haggle                0                     1
Heal                  1                     2
Hide                  6                    12
Intimidate            0                     0
Jump                  6                    16
Listen                4                    16
Move Silently         6                     9
Open Lock             6                    28
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                     5
Search                6                    33
Spellcraft            2                     2
Spot                  3                    12
Swim                  2                     6
Tumble                5                     8
Use Magic Device      4                    25

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Reptillian


Level 3 (Ranger)


Level 4 (Rogue)


Level 5 (Barbarian)


Level 6 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons


Level 7 (Ranger)


Level 8 (Ranger)


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 10 (Ranger)


Level 11 (Ranger)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge


Level 13 (Ranger)


Level 14 (Ranger)


Level 15 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
Feat: (Selected) Mobility


Level 16 (Ranger)


Level 17 (Barbarian)


Level 18 (Barbarian)
Feat: (Selected) Shot on the Run


Level 19 (Barbarian)


Level 20 (Barbarian)
Enhancement: Elf - Elven Accuracy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Elven Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Elven Accuracy (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Elven Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Keen Senses (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Keen Senses (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Elf - Keen Senses (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Aerenal Weapon Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Elf - Skill (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Arbalester (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Mechanics (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Awareness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Skill Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Skill Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Skill Boost (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Use Magical Device (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Use Magical Device (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Mechanic (Rog) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arcane Archer (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Morphic Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Metalline Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Conjure Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - True Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Corrosive Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Awareness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Awareness (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Awareness (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Force Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Frost Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Shattermantle Shot (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Terror Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Shock Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Banishing Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Paralyzing  Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Smiting Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Flaming Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Dexterity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Arrow of Slaying (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Improved Elemental Arrows (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Arcane Archer (Rgr) - Runebow (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Die Hard (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Toughness (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Extra Rage (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Extra Rage (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Die Harder (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Die Harder (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Die Harder (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Athletics (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Sprint Boost (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Sprint Boost (Rank 2)
Enhancement: Frenzied Berserker (Bar) - Constitution (Rank 1)

I'm very open to suggestions. I went with a 32 point build. I don't care about PD, so I'm somewhat ok with HP and SP being lower. I know there's lots of good tweaking to do.... It's past 1:30am and I have to be at work in 5 hours..... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Pala-forged]

So I took a quick stab at it....


I'm very open to suggestions. I went with a 32 point build. I don't care about PD, so I'm somewhat ok with HP and SP being lower. I know there's lots of good tweaking to do.... It's past 1:30am and I have to be at work in 5 hours..... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Barb doesn't offer much, you don't need WF: ranged, shot on the run is meh (to-hit isn't that important these days), you missed a feat at level 3 and you didn't include epic levels (21 -28)

[UtherSRG]

Barb doesn't offer much, you don't need WF: ranged, shot on the run is meh (to-hit isn't that important these days), you missed a feat at level 3 and you didn't include epic levels (21 -28)

I skipped epic on purpose to match the original build, so that I could compare apples with apples. And wow... how'd I miss a feat?? Yeah, as I was making it, I was thinking I'd like to drop all the Barb levels for more Rangeer, especially when I got to the AA enhancement tree. Maybe 4/16 Rog/Ran to pick up some decent Rogue enhancements. Definitely at least 12 Ran to get Aligned Arrows. I can replace the WF:Ranged and Shot on the Run with a Toughness for more HP. Any other suggestions?