10 Skull Mask of Deception Completion: Review of Reaper, Dec14th-16th, Captain's Crew

...some editing may occur to this post over the next few days...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9v3YyXRlq1w

What we ran:
1. 5 skull then 7 skull then 10 skull Mask of Deception. Completed
2. 8 skull Haunted Halls. Failed
3. 5 skull Slave Lords Part 1. Completed
4. 6 skull TOEE part 1. Completed

I'll try to get the other videos up.
The HH run wiped because of alert in the zombie area.
We did not have the DPS to deal with all the undead and were shortman.
Slave lords and TOEE were 6man groups. It was hard enough that we could have maybe done 7-8 skull but I think that would have been the tank's limit.

As sev mentioned elsewhere there was a bug in the Mask quest making it easier: reapers weren't spawning as frequently.

Caster Perspective
The mana orbs on the ground were a little over-powered. I played a DC caster all night and it made it a bit easy.
Hurl through Hell, and Soul-eater Capstone are both banishment instakills.
Along with Prismatic spray they go through death ward. This may need to be nerfed if the Devs want that.
I did not lead kill count in TOEE or Slave Lords, but I was most focused on crowd control, and insta-killing reapers.

Tank Perspective
(UserChat3): [devchat] Seagryn: 'id like a feat/destiny/enhancement that makes intim work on mindless things'
That was after Haunted Halls. The zombies are mindless. There are many mindless things in the game. A tank can do nothing to help you in that situation. A little grease would be lovely.

TEH TROLL'S PERSPECTIVE
HJEAL MEH!

Bugs
Party:): [To Party] (Combat): You hit Dragonsoul Warrior for 1,207 points of bludgeon damage.
This was a Colors of the Queen proc, from past life, that seemed to go through the nerf.

cakes go through raise timer

As per the guild name... ...pale master healing is still bugged

1) Was that your music or in-game?

2) What happened with that glitch at the last trap? You were inside pulling the mobs thru the trap then suddenly you were outside.

3) You seemed to be CCing everything handily - What were your DCs for Conjuration and Enchantment?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FranOhmsford

1) Was that your music or in-game?

2) What happened with that glitch at the last trap? You were inside pulling the mobs thru the trap then suddenly you were outside.

3) You seemed to be CCing everything handily - What were your DCs for Conjuration and Enchantment?

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1) Nah, I just didn't want to subject everyone to the teamspeak banter.
2) There are 3 videos that are side by side in the recording. I didn't do a good job with the 2nd transition.
3) 92 Necro / 83 Enchant / 86 Conjuration. I might be off a little bit but I think that's right.

Tentacles has no save, so that's very helpful. Another thing that could be nerfed about warlocks.

Sam,
Thanks for some video
Too bad you didn't pick one with reapers in it

My observations
Looks like a completely different style of play
Not a Zerg fest where everyone adds in...
Traditional roles,
But I saw most of them standing around
The warlock was doing all the holds
The tank was holding and tanking
The tempest was doing all the dps
The cleric was hand holding
Couldn't tell what the wizard was doing

But could that all be added dps?
I mean you held everything before dpsing it
I would think it should be more dynamic teamwork for killing
So I get it, again traditional roles
And I appreciate that play
Looks hella slow
But maybe it will introduce tactics again

My only caveat was that the cleric wasn't a radiant
And you played in such a safe manner
I guess because everything is one shot

My question is about death timers
Seems you have a minute or more timer on death
And that really underscored one mob at a time engagement
If that's the case that there is a substantial timer
It needs to be bypass able by divines
Otherwise again, clerics are just placeholders
They need to bring something to reaper that will cement them a place
Ive mentioned this before,
So what do you think?

Thanks again
I look forward to seeing what live brings

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vish

My only caveat was that the cleric wasn't a radiant
And you played in such a safe manner
I guess because everything is one shot

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Thinking about it Radiant would probably be a bad choice for Reaper as Radiant pretty much requires the Cleric to get into Melee where he's going to die Aura or no Aura!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vish

My question is about death timers
Seems you have a minute or more timer on death

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I saw a couple of strangely fast Resses - Maybe it's just me not noticing how much time had gone by but not sure the Death timer is fully working yet looking at that video.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FranOhmsford

Thinking about it Radiant would probably be a bad choice for Reaper as Radiant pretty much requires the Cleric to get into Melee where he's going to die Aura or no Aura!

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This is exactly my point
If radiants are not viable as anti reaper
Then I have no more place in this game

But the question of engagement is such that one shot if hit
But that was 10 skull

At 5 is there a middling?
Where radiant is useful to counteract damage

If this is not dialed in
They are missing the mark

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FranOhmsford

I saw a couple of strangely fast Resses - Maybe it's just me not noticing how much time had gone by but not sure the Death timer is fully working yet looking at that video.

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Cakes work in reaper and bypass the death timer. Needs to be fixed. He used 2 right at the start to test it.

As always, thanks for the posts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sam-u-r-eye

.
The HH run wiped because of alert in the zombie area.
We did not have the DPS to deal with all the undead and were shortman.

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I can usually sneak through this area and find/grab the crest without any combat (EE, solo or group).

Not sure if this is the case on reaper.

Just a note:

Because all of the enemies start as friendlies and change to hostiles, it interferes with Reaper generation. So this adventure in particular has almost no Reapers generating. We might have to make it unavailable on Reaper mode because of the specifics of its design.

Also, in response to stealth completions on Reaper, players don't get Reaper XP unless they defeat at least 10 enemies.

Sev~

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Severlin

Also, in response to stealth completions on Reaper, players don't get Reaper XP unless they defeat at least 10 enemies.

Sev~

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I don't understand why this. This game needs to promote different playstyles, not just the same old beatdown. At best, I would increase mobs' Listen and Spot, to make stealthing much, much harder.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Severlin

Just a note:

Because all of the enemies start as friendlies and change to hostiles, it interferes with Reaper generation. So this adventure in particular has almost no Reapers generating. We might have to make it unavailable on Reaper mode because of the specifics of its design.

Also, in response to stealth completions on Reaper, players don't get Reaper XP unless they defeat at least 10 enemies.

Sev~

---

good stuff

what were your thoughts on hurl through hell and the other banishment spells?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sam-u-r-eye

good stuff

what were your thoughts on hurl through hell and the other banishment spells?

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We don't want to start making knee-jerk changes because some power or another is doing well in Reaper. We plan to see how stuff is playing out. Single target effects that destroy or CC single targets are great for Reaper and we don't want to remove them from the equation now that they've found a niche unless they are so good that they are trivializing the game play.

Sev~

Well they say patience is the companion of wisdom.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Severlin

We don't want to start making knee-jerk changes because some power or another is doing well in Reaper. We plan to see how stuff is playing out. Single target effects that destroy or CC single targets are great for Reaper and we don't want to remove them from the equation now that they've found a niche unless they are so good that they are trivializing the game play.

Sev~

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sam-u-r-eye

Well they say patience is the companion of wisdom.

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Very true, It think that's why is so important the you consider holding off on Reaper Severlin until you've had a chance to update the Cleric and FVS classes. It's clear that they will have a position of renewed importance within Reaper, so common sense would suggest it is better to have Reaper finessed and finished with the final versions of those two classes done first. Reaper will make a large impact on the game so it's essential that care and patience be shown so the impact is positive.

Finish those class passes and then debut the ideally balanced version of Reaper Sev, don't rush it out to the detriment of the game and grouping.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by goldengibblet

... consider holding off on Reaper Severlin until you've had a chance to update the Cleric and FVS classes. It's clear that they will have a position of renewed importance within Reaper, so common sense would suggest it is better to have Reaper finessed and finished with the final versions of those two classes done first. Reaper will make a large impact on the game so it's essential that care and patience be shown so the impact is positive.

Finish those class passes and then debut the ideally balanced version of Reaper Sev, don't rush it out to the detriment of the game and grouping.

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I agree about the impact, but I think several points could be made.

1. Why hold onto a nearly finished product? Reaper is giving a lot of people hope about fundamental game-play value.

2. Reaper will change the META. Reaper is "10X" more powerful in doing that than a class pass. People want to try something shiny. Reaper will change how they play, what they play, and why they play.

3. Along with this META point: people will want to play healers again. Some of the QOL fixes we'll want would be obvious after reaper hits. You made I think a silly point about common sense.

4. A third FVS tree should be balanced with other trees. Its release is not time dependent.

I could see reaper being released on the Live servers without any reward system to see how the community deals with it.
Say with only the XP bonus.

I have no idea how the difficulty will be monetized but I think it would be good to see how the live servers deal with it before incentives are released.

Speakin' off the top of my silly head here~~~

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sam-u-r-eye

I agree about the impact, but I think several points could be made.

1. Why hold onto a nearly finished product? Reaper is giving a lot of people hope about fundamental game-play value.

2. Reaper will change the META. Reaper is "10X" more powerful in doing that than a class pass. People want to try something shiny. Reaper will change how they play, what they play, and why they play.

3. Along with this META point: people will want to play healers again. Some of the QOL fixes we'll want would be obvious after reaper hits. You made I think a silly point about common sense.

4. A third FVS tree should be balanced with other trees. Its release is not time dependent.

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In a rough order, (although I was addressing Severlin as you and I have already established positions with each other, and after he is the one that knows and has the power to do something one way or another. Not to mention I was hoping to take advantage of the fact that Sev appears to be a bit more chatty than he has been of late to get a understanding and dare I say feed-back) I would say

1. It's not nearly finished, just look at the teams decision to hold back on release notes because they didn't want bug reports yet, but rather that we give feedback about the experience. That's because they are still working and feeling their way.

2. Yes people want something shiny, like new trees and class passes, as it always been. Not to mention the tremendous anticipation after waiting for those changes for so long make it that much shinier.

3. Indeed people will not only want to but will need to play healers again, unless it's the current crop that are behind the curve so far that they are largely abandoned in epic and legendary, a fate that will only get worse it Reaper goes live prior to them being brought up to speed. Common sense really.

4. No problem with waiting on a third tree, but it would make more sense to do them together or in quick succession of patches a'la bards swash & spell singer, chanter. That worked out very well. Kept the excitement alive for months.

So Severlin? how do you feel about getting the healer passes live before dropping Reaper?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sam-u-r-eye

I could see reaper being released on the Live servers without any reward system to see how the community deals with it.
Say with only the XP bonus.

I have no idea how the difficulty will be monetized but I think it would be good to see how the live servers deal with it before incentives are released.

Speakin' off the top of my silly head here~~~

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I don't see the rewards being the main driver for reaper myself. It will be bragging rights and xp as was introduction of other diffs, bravery bonus, etc.... that drive people to it first.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Severlin

Also, in response to stealth completions on Reaper, players don't get Reaper XP unless they defeat at least 10 enemies.

Sev~

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What the heck is this "reaper XP" people keep talking about?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by goldengibblet

In a rough order, (although I was addressing Severlin as you and I have already established positions with each other, and after he is the one that knows and has the power to do something one way or another. Not to mention I was hoping to take advantage of the fact that Sev appears to be a bit more chatty than he has been of late to get a understanding and dare I say feed-back)

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I definitely have no "established position" with you.
You directed a couple glib insults at me previously which I don't take seriously.
The internet isn't worth getting angry about. Think this is my favorite comment:

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by goldengibblet

1. It's not nearly finished, just look at the teams decision to hold back on release notes because they didn't want bug reports yet, but rather that we give feedback about the experience. That's because they are still working and feeling their way.

2. Yes people want something shiny, like new trees and class passes, as it always been. Not to mention the tremendous anticipation after waiting for those changes for so long make it that much shinier.

3. Indeed people will not only want to but will need to play healers again, unless it's the current crop that are behind the curve so far that they are largely abandoned in epic and legendary, a fate that will only get worse it Reaper goes live prior to them being brought up to speed. Common sense really.

4. No problem with waiting on a third tree, but it would make more sense to do them together or in quick succession of patches a'la bards swash & spell singer, chanter. That worked out very well. Kept the excitement alive for months.

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1. What was your impression of reaper when you played it? Or did you bother/find it interesting?

3. A lot of the power creep will have a positive effect on new players in reaper. It takes roughly 6 months for someone to reach endgame on a new account. (I've seen it twice now.) The power creep has been a good thing for the game.