Zombie Form

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07-29-2011, 03:35 AM
Eztrellaa

Zombie Form

Hi All,

Just an observation really... I have just started leveling a Pale Master Wizard and I got to level 6 and saw "Zombie Form" available as an enhancement. Upon initial read my thoughts were "why on earth would I want to take that"!! Looked it up on some builds available and all have said "dont take it".

BUT, I did, just to see what it looked like! I started using it in some instances in dungeons when soloing and I have to say, for a low level caster it DOES have its uses!! It's very nice being able to avoid, poison effects, disease and mind control spells and hold person!! I must admit, I will get rid of it as I get to higher levels. But just an observation I feel its kinda useful for a low level wizzie.

Ez
07-29-2011, 05:48 AM
budalic

The problem is that you looked at lvl 20 builds. There is really no reason to have zombie at lvl 20, but enhanchments can be reset often and for low cost - and zombie is quite good, low-level wise (hell, if you don't want to take Mental Gimpness at 12 and then ditch it at 18 I'd recommend zombie over vampire).
07-29-2011, 05:58 AM
red_cardinal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eztrellaa

Hi All,

Just an observation really... I have just started leveling a Pale Master Wizard and I got to level 6 and saw "Zombie Form" available as an enhancement. Upon initial read my thoughts were "why on earth would I want to take that"!! Looked it up on some builds available and all have said "dont take it".

BUT, I did, just to see what it looked like! I started using it in some instances in dungeons when soloing and I have to say, for a low level caster it DOES have its uses!! It's very nice being able to avoid, poison effects, disease and mind control spells and hold person!! I must admit, I will get rid of it as I get to higher levels. But just an observation I feel its kinda useful for a low level wizzie.

Ez

and gives you heavy fort and self healing from death aura at levels 7-12 + DR5/slash.
07-29-2011, 06:12 AM
Syllph

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eztrellaa

It's very nice being able to avoid, poison effects, disease and mind control spells and hold person!! I must admit, I will get rid of it as I get to higher levels. But just an observation I feel its kinda useful for a low level wizzie.

Ez

Probably one reason would be that Warforged get all that but mind control at level one with no SP cost associated. another reason is "builds" usually show at level 20, as you said you'll swap it out later, they just didn't bother to include it.
07-29-2011, 10:23 AM
Valindria

18 PM Lich is where it is at, but if you are leveling I think zombie looks pretty good. Sure it's -1 DC but low level stuff shouldn't matter as you usually are doing damage spells. It allows self heals and lots of goodies. I like it. Also if you don't have mental toughness, sometimes it better until 18 because the 4x light damage will 1 shot some PMs. I know there is a lot of hate but I think zombie form was a good addition to PM1.
07-29-2011, 11:22 AM
DkrLeo

I passed up zombie to wait out vamp and wraith!
Im also putting in 6-8 levels of monk!
Can you say undead Jet Li?
07-29-2011, 12:13 PM
PestWulf

Quote:

Originally Posted by DkrLeo

I passed up zombie to wait out vamp and wraith!
Im also putting in 6-8 levels of monk!
Can you say undead Jet Li?

Jet Li was never killed by a flashlight, AFAIK. Hehe.
07-29-2011, 12:22 PM
Failedlegend

Quote:

Originally Posted by DkrLeo

I passed up zombie to wait out vamp and wraith!
Im also putting in 6-8 levels of monk!
Can you say undead Jet Li?

There's no point of doing a wraith monk your spells will be pointless (except no save stuff like melf's and buffs) and your fists will only be 1D8 which is also pointless on the other hand if you make a Zombie Monk with at least 12 lvls of Monk you'll have the same first damage as a pure monk.

The only issue I have with this guy is the punch animation is glitched and looks weird but the hits still register the same so its only a visual thing.

Otherwise you might as well go either pure wiz (or pure monk) or 2 rogue splash

Anyways here's what I roll with (I also have a pure wiz and monk)

Code:

Lawful Neutral Dwarf Monk12/Wizard7/Fighter1 "Zombie/Ninja Spy" Stats Str 16 (Lvl ups here) Dex 15 Con 16 Int 12 Wis 12 Cha 6 Level Order Monk 1 Wizard 2-8 Monk 9-18 Fighter 19 Monk 20 Feats (In Order) Regular 1 SF: Concentration 3 SF: UMD 6 Power Attack 9 Stunning Blow 12 ITWF 15 IC: Bludgeon 18 Mental Toughness Wiz 2 Extend 6 SF:Necro Monk 1 TWF 9 Toughness 13 Dodge Fighter 19 GTWF Skills All Levels: Concentration, UMD Monk Levels: Add Balance Any Leftover points in Spot Spells 1 Jump, Night Shield, Exp Retreat, Feather Fall, Detect Doors 2 Lesser Death Aura, Resist Energy, Blur, Melf's (no save ftw) 3 Haste, Displacement, Rage 4 Death Aura, Neg Burst
07-29-2011, 01:17 PM
DkrLeo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Failedlegend

There's no point of doing a wraith monk your spells will be pointless (except no save stuff like melf's and buffs) and your fists will only be 1D8 which is also pointless on the other hand if you make a Zombie Monk with at least 12 lvls of Monk you'll have the same first damage as a pure monk.

The only issue I have with this guy is the punch animation is glitched and looks weird but the hits still register the same so its only a visual thing.

Otherwise you might as well go either pure wiz (or pure monk) or 2 rogue splash

Anyways here's what I roll with (I also have a pure wiz and monk)

Code:

Lawful Neutral Dwarf Monk12/Wizard7/Fighter1 "Zombie/Ninja Spy" Stats Str 16 (Lvl ups here) Dex 15 Con 16 Int 12 Wis 12 Cha 6 Level Order Monk 1 Wizard 2-8 Monk 9-18 Fighter 19 Monk 20 Feats (In Order) Regular 1 SF: Concentration 3 SF: UMD 6 Power Attack 9 Stunning Blow 12 ITWF 15 IC: Bludgeon 18 Mental Toughness Wiz 2 Extend 6 SF:Necro Monk 1 TWF 9 Toughness 13 Dodge Fighter 19 GTWF Skills All Levels: Concentration, UMD Monk Levels: Add Balance Any Leftover points in Spot Spells 1 Jump, Night Shield, Exp Retreat, Feather Fall, Detect Doors 2 Lesser Death Aura, Resist Energy, Blur, Melf's (no save ftw) 3 Haste, Displacement, Rage 4 Death Aura, Neg Burst

Im interested inseeing a wraith form monk for incorp bonus or Vampire for the str inc and ability to self heal. Flavor class? Possibly.
07-29-2011, 01:20 PM
Failedlegend

Quote:

Originally Posted by DkrLeo

Im interested inseeing a wraith form monk for incorp bonus or Vampire for the str inc and ability to self heal. Flavor class? Possibly.

- Incorp from wraith doesn't stack with the monk's shadow fade ability

- Vampire = Suicide (Zombie also gets a Str bonus as well as Con)

- Self Heal...Zombie can do that too...specifically took lvl 7 of wiz for death aura access.
07-29-2011, 11:21 PM
DkrLeo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Failedlegend

- Incorp from wraith doesn't stack with the monk's shadow fade ability

- Vampire = Suicide (Zombie also gets a Str bonus as well as Con)

- Self Heal...Zombie can do that too...specifically took lvl 7 of wiz for death aura access.

Vampire Suicide?
Do tell!
07-29-2011, 11:28 PM
Superspeed_Hi5

Quote:

Originally Posted by DkrLeo

Vampire Suicide?
Do tell!

Running with the Devils or any dungeons where casters blast searing light alot.
07-29-2011, 11:30 PM
Failedlegend

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superspeed_Hi5

Running with the Devils or any dungeons where casters blast searing light alot.

Which as a PM I've noticed is ALOT more common than you'd think.
07-29-2011, 11:32 PM
Aashrym

Quote:

Originally Posted by DkrLeo

Vampire Suicide?
Do tell!

*4 light vulnerability sucks if you are in the wrong place at the wrong time. *2 can be scary enough on crits.
07-29-2011, 11:39 PM
Superspeed_Hi5

Quote:

Originally Posted by Failedlegend

Which as a PM I've noticed is ALOT more common than you'd think.

Also those new Lordsmarch quests many of the kobolds in there cast sunburst! ALOT! those hit for close to 300 in wraith form in vampire form you ARE NOW ASHES!
07-29-2011, 11:42 PM
Failedlegend

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superspeed_Hi5

Also those new Lordsmarch quests many of the kobolds in there cast sunburst! ALOT! those hit for close to 300 in wraith form in vampire form you ARE NOW ASHES!

Yeah and the worst part is (correct me if I'm wrong) aside from evasion (which i personally think is 100% required for a PM) theres no real way to reduce light damage in this DDO.

Note: A well equipped level 20 PM Wizard had around 550-620 HP so even a capped toon can be obliterated by one sunburst as a Vampire.

Reqlly I don't see why you'd choose Vamp over wraith on a pure wiz/light spalsh anyway

Vamp: +2 Str/Cha ,-25% Threat (meh), +2 Enchant DCs (this is nice)

Wraith: +25% Miss Chance (stacks with blur/displace), Ghost Touch, Featherfall, +20 Balance, +20 Move Silently

The +2 DC is nice but the rest is mostly pointless while everything wraith gives you is useful...at least uuntil you get Lich

Lich: +2 Int, +4 Con, +2 Wis (meh),chance of temp HP & +1 Necro DC (meh)

Personally on my 18Wiz/Rogue2 I use Lich while in groups and Wraith while soloing or when I need the Balance which I my current build i don't really need because I put points into Balance and have a +15 item (ends up being like 55-60 with wraith form on), but my TR plans couldn't fit it in and will love this for quests like Titan. Also Wraith+Invisible makes avoiding enemies childs play. Not sure how Displacement+Incorp stack but its either 75% Miss chance (45% with just blur) or 62% but from live testing of it I'm thinking its 75%. That plus Death Aura plus High Con and possibly Shield Mastery (passive reduction off all damage by 15%) you become a soloing machine.

For a Palemaster Monk though it's not as cool as Shadow Fade sadly does not stack with Wraith miss chance and rightfully so cause that would be a 100% miss chance lol and by taking 12 lvls of wiz your spells are near useless and your fists do next to no damage which is why your better off with zombie form.
07-29-2011, 11:55 PM
Dawnsfire

Quote:

Originally Posted by Failedlegend

Yeah and the worst part is (correct me if I'm wrong) aside from evasion (which i personally think is 100% required for a PM) theres no real way to reduce light damage in this DDO.

As far as I am aware just this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genasi

Epic Phiarlan Mirror Cloak: Improved Spell Resistance to 30, added Spell Absorption (5 charges), added Greater Light Resistance. It will also keep Blurry (there was some debate about whether it would).

Assuming the change happens...
07-29-2011, 11:59 PM
Aashrym

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawnsfire

As far as I am aware just this:

Assuming the change happens...

I`ve started farming what I`ll need in preparation for it. Palemasters everywhere will want one.
07-30-2011, 12:01 AM
Failedlegend

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aashrym

I`ve started farming what I`ll need in preparation for it. Palemasters everywhere will want one.

Indeed....although the non-epic version is pointless and I tend not to play at cap much...don't really see the point of getting better equips to do the same quest over and over but thats just me.

Also greater light resistance would be what....30?

So Sunburst+Vamp = 600 - 30 = 570 :P or even other forms = 300-30 = 270
07-30-2011, 12:23 AM
Drekisen

Yeah...the light damage thing while in form is horrendous overkill....it needs to be adjusted.....very much.

There is no point being a PM if your doing dungeons where mobs can literally one-shot you. Being intsa-killed because you forgot your DW or DeathBlock item is one thing.....being insta-killed by a non insta-kill spell just because you're playing your PrE is another....and unacceptable IMO.

I say still hit hard by light enough to make us scared, but not so hard we have to turn our form off.

BTW, if your doing dungeons with light spell casters, Quicken is an absolute must...you ARE NOT going to make a concentration check.

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