How are clerics supposed to cope with epic quests?

I haven't played the new epic stuff yet, but reading about it really makes me wonder how clerics are supposed to support groups in quests like those?

The only capped char i have is a cleric and i don't get to play the amrath quests a lot as it is now since i just can't afford the amount of pots needed.
Good guild groups may be able to play quests like Genesis Point with reasonable amounts of ressources.. pugs are not.
For every pug run of Genesis Point i needed 10+ major sp pots to keep the group alive.
Since i refuse to insert my paycheck into the ddo store every month, i need to run a lot of explorers and lower level quests to be able to run amrath once in a while. That just sucks!

If i read how hard those epic desert quests are, how long fights take and how much damage the mobs are doing, how is a cleric supposed to keep up?!?!?

If you're using pots in genesis point, its time to re-assess the people you group with and your playstyle pretty drastically.

The devs are making some changes based on the initial feedback, decreasing mob hit points and stats making spells more effective. We will see once this update is in. But in its current form its a melee beatdown.

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Originally Posted by quintuss

I haven't played the new epic stuff yet, but reading about it really makes me wonder how clerics are supposed to support groups in quests like those?

The only capped char i have is a cleric and i don't get to play the amrath quests a lot as it is now since i just can't afford the amount of pots needed.
Good guild groups may be able to play quests like Genesis Point with reasonable amounts of ressources.. pugs are not.
For every pug run of Genesis Point i needed 10+ major sp pots to keep the group alive.
Since i refuse to insert my paycheck into the ddo store every month, i need to run a lot of explorers and lower level quests to be able to run amrath once in a while. That just sucks!

If i read how hard those epic desert quests are, how long fights take and how much damage the mobs are doing, how is a cleric supposed to keep up?!?!?

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One reason I pretty much shelved my cleric. She is still not doing Amrath quests and will never do epic quests unless I get 2 major mana pots from each person that I am healing prior for PUG groups.

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Originally Posted by Tyrande

One reason I pretty much shelved my cleric. She is still not doing Amrath quests and will never do epic quests unless I get 2 major mana pots from each person that I am healing prior for PUG groups.

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I doubt 5 major mana pots will make a dent on the healing required in epic content, however keep in mind, when doing epic content, you are already capped, so here is how I foresee clerics doing epic content.

Recall or shrine after nearly every battle.

Epic Clerics will deal with Epic Quests just fine. The rest shouldn't be there.

Just like Elite Clerics deal with Elite Quests just fine now.

I rarely use mana pots in the Amrath quests or in ToD. I ran my first one without needing a single pot at all.

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Originally Posted by Junts

If you're using pots in genesis point, its time to re-assess the people you group with and your playstyle pretty drastically.

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Thats mean, it's true but mean :p

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Originally Posted by Junts

If you're using pots in genesis point, its time to re-assess the people you group with and your playstyle pretty drastically.

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Guess I have to ride the bus with Junts on this one. While I think my cleric build is pretty solid (I'm not going into stats, etc), I've taken a number of levels for battle clericing (i.e. melee proficiency) which means that I don't have quite the sp of a pure build, yet I don't have a problem getting through without pots.

I have a Cleric17/Pally1/Fighter2 on lammie that I haven't had a chance to run epics on yet, but I'll get a look this weekend and drop in a post.

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Originally Posted by Elsbet

I rarely use mana pots in the Amrath quests or in ToD. I ran my first one without needing a single pot at all.

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But how many scolls did you use? :p

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Originally Posted by quintuss

I haven't played the new epic stuff yet, but reading about it really makes me wonder how clerics are supposed to support groups in quests like those?

The only capped char i have is a cleric and i don't get to play the amrath quests a lot as it is now since i just can't afford the amount of pots needed.
Good guild groups may be able to play quests like Genesis Point with reasonable amounts of ressources.. pugs are not.
For every pug run of Genesis Point i needed 10+ major sp pots to keep the group alive.
Since i refuse to insert my paycheck into the ddo store every month, i need to run a lot of explorers and lower level quests to be able to run amrath once in a while. That just sucks!

If i read how hard those epic desert quests are, how long fights take and how much damage the mobs are doing, how is a cleric supposed to keep up?!?!?

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The point at which I stopped using mana pots in Normal/Hard Amrath quests was the point at which I learned to use Mass Heal.

60 SP (Quickened), and 3 seconds later the whole party is at full or close to it.


That said, Elite Amrath content I don't like single-cleric groups in. Take two clerics (one of whom can melee) - the melee specced cleric plays a melee role until the main healer is at 10% SP, then the main healer resorts to only scrolls while the melee cleric heals, saving those last few SP for wipe prevention.

That's a far better way to cope with elite Amrath. Or better yet, bring three Clerics - one of whom casts pretty much nothing but Bladebarrier while the other two take turns healing and contributing as much or as little as they can in melee.

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Originally Posted by Belwaar

But how many scolls did you use? :p

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I have done ToD on hard more than once with my cleric. The most I ever needed to use was 1 pot and 7 scolls.

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Originally Posted by Junts

If you're using pots in genesis point, its time to re-assess the people you group with and your playstyle pretty drastically.

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I have done GP elite with no cleric in group. We didnt find it particularly difficult.

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Originally Posted by DragavonBeta

I have done GP elite with no cleric in group. We didnt find it particularly difficult.

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Me, too. That was my point ... people shouldn't regularly be drinking mana pots outside of tower of despair and ascension chamber.

Epic is there for those that want to run it. No one forces you to run it. Remember that. It is YOUR choice to attempt it.

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Originally Posted by quintuss

I haven't played the new epic stuff yet, but reading about it really makes me wonder how clerics are supposed to support groups in quests like those?

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The developers have announced that the epic quests are currently too stupid, and will be fixed to be less stupid.

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Originally Posted by quintuss

For every pug run of Genesis Point i needed 10+ major sp pots to keep the group alive.

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1. The 4 possible endings aren't equal difficulty; one is a lot harder. Stay with the east room to be safe.
2. Kill Queen Laliat for Torc of Rayium-de and you'll never need pots again!

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Originally Posted by quintuss

The only capped char i have is a cleric and i don't get to play the amrath quests a lot as it is now since i just can't afford the amount of pots needed.
Good guild groups may be able to play quests like Genesis Point with reasonable amounts of ressources.. pugs are not.
For every pug run of Genesis Point i needed 10+ major sp pots to keep the group alive.
Since i refuse to insert my paycheck into the ddo store every month, i need to run a lot of explorers and lower level quests to be able to run amrath once in a while. That just sucks!

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Khyber pugs are really that bad?

Wow..

I pug genesis all the time, even on elite.. And have never had a cleric need to use a single mana pot. Infact the majority of the runs we skipped shrines because we never needed them! On elite a few scrolls are generally needed, never mana pots.. Scroll healing is plenty effective. I provide them to clerics very often when I pug hard content.. Fast normal runs I expect none to be used.

Pretty sure I have grouped with you before in pugs too and had no problems. Maybe not the shavarath stuff? If you see an lfm up from me with it, join up and you can be sure you'll end the quest with more resources then you started it.

Given the ultra high value of the loot dropping in epic quests, and the upcoming drastic reduction to monster hp on epic.. I don't think scroll cost will become an issue for clerics on epic mode either. I can see a good 300+ scrolls being used on chains of flame giving the limited shrines in there (2), but the cost of that is much less GP then what'd a party would get from a single run of the quest anyways for selling the junk, so its not an issue as long as people chip in.

For wiz king, the things got 4 shrines, plus one right outside that will reset, so it really shouldn't be a big issue.

What will become important is having people displaced, and keeping your scroll mastery maxxed out to keep the tank up without using allot of SP, and having the other melee's play it smart and flank. Like always, strong teamwork will keep resource costs down.

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Originally Posted by Belwaar

But how many scolls did you use? :p

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Ten, maybe twelve...

I'll be honest and say that much of that was running with a group of VERY good players, but it really isn't that hard to do.

Play smarter, not harder.

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So much depends on your group. When I run with my Southern Tenant Farmers Union brothers, we rarely need scrolls or pots in the Amarath quests except the raid. We are well equipped, know what we are doing, and simply blast through everything. I have played all sides in Amarath, Cleric, Melee, Caster, Support. The clerics simply don't have significant issues with well equipped, knowledgable groups.

My same cleric, in a pug, can be a different story. Some pugs, have every bit as well equipped and knowledgable players and use very little resources. Some pugs, well... they are a bit more challenging!

I am not one to bail on a group, so I tough it out and have used resouces simply to fail at the end anyway. My Cleric is a 16/2 ClerMonk, so he is not max SP anyway and a group with low DPS combined with low AC can get resource taxing. In many cases, I find it easier in Bastion or Sins to simply take the lead and BB everything. It's usually less resource intensive to kill it myself...

To the OP I would say: In Amarath quests, try to do either Weapons Shipment or the other easy one (name escapes me right now) with a group before heading to the big quests. Gauge the group then decide if you can afford to hit the big quests.