named item drop rates are miserable

I'm on my 6th full run of the entire sharn series. 1,2 and 3. been running solo LH and received a total of 1 named item which no toon I have can use. If random gen items weren't complete trash it might be less disappointing. But I really am tired of running quests for acorn rewards and reduced Xp on toons whose only reason for existing is as farmers.

I know. I know... "if you want better drop rates do leet or reaper 15".
If i could do that solo i would.

And i'm already aware of "group with others".
Unfortunately the current LFM system has no group specifics other than level and quest. As i've said before. I'm not here to pike, or try and follow the flash as he zooms through a quest amped up on xp pots, or watch superman defend the earth. it's just no fun. So i skip grouping altogether.
Not to mention i need pit stops every now and then.


just raise the **** drop rates and do something about the **** we call random loot. if i see another paralyzing weapon at level 30 with a 17 dc I'll probably toss my lunch.

As much as I agree, there is nothing much that can be done except for run reaper 1. Not saying you have to, it's the way to increase the drop rates + have mythic boost on it. Sorry to hear about your situation on the not running Reaper 1 solo, most players are casuals compared to elitist who can solo this stuff. Most likely depending on your server is to create an lfm and wait for someone to fill but don't put gear farming because nobody clicks on it.

Imho, frustration comes from that adventure packs are very tightly connected with gear incentives. This puts the largest reward system in the game into a really dark little spot, that is mainly leveling gear for new players. Yes, the legendary & mythical new players :).

Anyway, last time a coupe of us suggested a revamp, and is what brought us here, tho not because we wanted it to be like this :). Credit goes elsewhere :).

I would personally very much like to see "life" put back into rand loot, much of the replay value sink is there, the "treasure hunting" experience , or lack of it , largely adds to why some players arent "just running content for fun", altho at first that might seem contra logic, but a lot of other games thrive using a better rand reward system, some even put the highend stuff in there at 1:10000 chances and cool stuff along that curve.

Chest runs anyone? No way unless there is some static loot in there :)

It really does not take too much fantasy to make rand loot at least viable, next to named gear. Or even include some generic sets on rand loot that goes halfway if you manage to luck out a good set with decent affixes.

From 20+; Sentient weapons pretty much nulled anything coming from randgen.

If grouping is not an option, then the only ways to improve the drop rates are upping the difficulty or spending on the DDO store for those "Drop Rate Improvements" or getting shards to do re-rolls on the chests.

You mention reason why you don't group.

1. For group specifics - Use the Memo field to set the tone of the group - "Loot runs, finding all the shinies"
2. For players that join your group that rob you of the fun - Politely ask them to play in the way you would prefer or leave. If they don't kick them between quests
3. For needing to take breaks often and finding like minded people, these are the groups you want to foster and seek out.

There are many players with similar situations, and many players that understand these. Not everyone that plays DDO does it to rush through there is a sizable group that uses this as their entertainment and prefer to enjoy the journey then rush to a destination.

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Originally Posted by krimsonrane

I'm on my 6th full run of the entire sharn series. 1,2 and 3. been running solo LH and received a total of 1 named item which no toon I have can use. If random gen items weren't complete trash it might be less disappointing. But I really am tired of running quests for acorn rewards and reduced Xp on toons whose only reason for existing is as farmers.

I know. I know... "if you want better drop rates do leet or reaper 15".
If i could do that solo i would.

And i'm already aware of "group with others".
Unfortunately the current LFM system has no group specifics other than level and quest. As i've said before. I'm not here to pike, or try and follow the flash as he zooms through a quest amped up on xp pots, or watch superman defend the earth. it's just no fun. So i skip grouping altogether.
Not to mention i need pit stops every now and then.


just raise the **** drop rates and do something about the **** we call random loot. if i see another paralyzing weapon at level 30 with a 17 dc I'll probably toss my lunch.

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it is a joke since they made all blue items bta. there is nothing in the AH anymore as that is only used for augment and ingredient shopping. the devs are out to lunch and they wonder why more people are leaving. my guild had close to 20 people in it and now there are 2. I use potions and gems to increase my chances to get certain items and even rerolls and still nothing so do I get mad yes. it seems quite clear they don't care about the game but only about their pockets but greed will eventually kill this game.

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Originally Posted by Enoach

If grouping is not an option, then the only ways to improve the drop rates are upping the difficulty or spending on the DDO store for those "Drop Rate Improvements" or getting shards to do re-rolls on the chests.

You mention reason why you don't group.

1. For group specifics - Use the Memo field to set the tone of the group - "Loot runs, finding all the shinies"
2. For players that join your group that rob you of the fun - Politely ask them to play in the way you would prefer or leave. If they don't kick them between quests
3. For needing to take breaks often and finding like minded people, these are the groups you want to foster and seek out.

There are many players with similar situations, and many players that understand these. Not everyone that plays DDO does it to rush through there is a sizable group that uses this as their entertainment and prefer to enjoy the journey then rush to a destination.

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I'm here to play my game. Not be someones minder. How hard would it be for devs to put a few more options into the LFM? it makes no sense to pass it down to players who don't want to lead anything. 99 million combinations of characters and only 2 grouping options. But it's up to me to fix that for myself? No thanks.

I remember for a brief period random loot was sexy and tons of LFm's went up everywhere for raids like tempest spine just to get that +6 insightful stat gear. then, as always, power tsunami happened and all of a sudden the only thing of value was acorns for TRing. if you watch elite players on youtube you'll see they don't pick up loot from chests as they have overflows of plat already and they know without looking that there's nothing worth getting in the chest. they skip past remnants, (again... filled up bags already) and only check chests that carry named items.

Even rats in a maze gotta get some cheese sometimes. otherwise, what's the purpose of running through the maze?

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Originally Posted by krimsonrane

I'm on my 6th full run of the entire sharn series. 1,2 and 3. been running solo LH and received a total of 1 named item which no toon I have can use. If random gen items weren't complete trash it might be less disappointing. But I really am tired of running quests for acorn rewards and reduced Xp on toons whose only reason for existing is as farmers.

I know. I know... "if you want better drop rates do leet or reaper 15".
If i could do that solo i would.

And i'm already aware of "group with others".
Unfortunately the current LFM system has no group specifics other than level and quest. As i've said before. I'm not here to pike, or try and follow the flash as he zooms through a quest amped up on xp pots, or watch superman defend the earth. it's just no fun. So i skip grouping altogether.
Not to mention i need pit stops every now and then.


just raise the **** drop rates and do something about the **** we call random loot. if i see another paralyzing weapon at level 30 with a 17 dc I'll probably toss my lunch.

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Fully agree. +1

I agree that it's a pita. I can only EE a few quests solo and even then those are the 1's where you can skip most of the quest like the pre sharn underwater 1 in the habour. I've decided to stay at cap and farm some HE mainly so i can dispose of all the 9 banks toons of ****. Sadly. Long gone are quest end rewards.

Drop rates arent that bad, stastically. You have a 1-in-12 chance of getting any named item you're looking for, in the Sharn style of quest design. That means, on average, you run a quest 12 times to get your item of interest, which isnt bad in the long run.

The problem is that while that's balanced statistically, which is good for the whole population (which is how they should balance quest design), it does create edge cases where you're left out running 40+ times for a single item (like me, chasing the heroic Family Recruit Sigil...)

That's immensely unsatisfying for the people who dont have RNGsus' blessings. There probably should be a safety net built into content like Sharn, where the items and especially the set bonuses are so important to defining your basic functionality in many builds and so you can really get stuck in a logjam if that last item just wont drop for you.

I wouldnt mind seeing a third-completion full list like Threnal, or being able to trade in Sharn mats for named items. Basically, by the time you've done 27 quests and still dont have it (ie 10% of people grinding an item at 1-in-12 chances), you should get your item if you havent found it yet. That wont push the average completions-per-acquisition down too much, so it keeps the statistics the same for the population, but it removes those unfortunate people stuck out on the tail of the binomial curve.

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Originally Posted by janave

Imho, frustration comes from that adventure packs are very tightly connected with gear incentives. This puts the largest reward system in the game into a really dark little spot, that is mainly leveling gear for new players. Yes, the legendary & mythical new players :).

Anyway, last time a coupe of us suggested a revamp, and is what brought us here, tho not because we wanted it to be like this :). Credit goes elsewhere :).

I would personally very much like to see "life" put back into rand loot, much of the replay value sink is there, the "treasure hunting" experience , or lack of it , largely adds to why some players arent "just running content for fun", altho at first that might seem contra logic, but a lot of other games thrive using a better rand reward system, some even put the highend stuff in there at 1:10000 chances and cool stuff along that curve.

Chest runs anyone? No way unless there is some static loot in there :)

It really does not take too much fantasy to make rand loot at least viable, next to named gear. Or even include some generic sets on rand loot that goes halfway if you manage to luck out a good set with decent affixes.

From 20+; Sentient weapons pretty much nulled anything coming from randgen.

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I would like to see them bring back the random loot styles we saw after the release of MOTU. I know they took that away shortly afterwards because they felt to loot was overpowered. I'm not sure that would be the case today.

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Originally Posted by krimsonrane

I'm here to play my game. Not be someones minder. How hard would it be for devs to put a few more options into the LFM? it makes no sense to pass it down to players who don't want to lead anything. 99 million combinations of characters and only 2 grouping options. But it's up to me to fix that for myself? No thanks.

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Thus the memo field - Imagine all the combination possibilities of "Grouping Styles", then imagine trying to "fill out the form". The memo is the best option to meet all of those differences.


But you seem to nail why you think this way based on the "...players who don't want to lead anything..." comment.

The main "leadership" of the Party Leader is to set the tone of the questing, that is the reason to lead when you have specific requirements/preferences.

If you join a group and are not enjoying yourself, then you can leave the group politely. There generally is no downside to doing things politely.

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Now you may wonder why I don't think they should "change the drop rate". It has more to do with I don't believe everyone should have "x" shiney. If everyone has it, then it stops being special and everyone becomes the "same". Rarity and diversity are a good things.

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Originally Posted by krimsonrane

solo

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Originally Posted by krimsonrane

LH

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I see the problem.

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Originally Posted by droid327

I wouldnt mind seeing a third-completion full list like Threnal. That wont push the average completions-per-acquisition down too much, so it keeps the statistics the same for the population, but it removes those unfortunate people stuck out on the tail of the binomial curve.

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Why on earth don't more modern quest chains work like this?

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Originally Posted by yfernbottom

Why on earth don't more modern quest chains work like this?

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That is as VERY GOOD QUESTION!

Delera's has it.
Threnal has it.
Three Barrel Cove has it.
Gianthold Saga has it.

I ask myself every time, why Ravenloft and Sharn don't have a X Completion List Reward.

Is not like we aren't doing the quests... they want we to run a variety of quests, but keep mechanics (very low and poor chance of named loots) that induces repetition.
Everybody knows that they want to sell Astral Shards for chest re-rolls, but stills dump decision not increase the named item reward percentage or implement some kind of "granted" acquisition, like it was in the 20th Raid Completion Era.

Let us get the plain item (without mystic or reaper bonus), so we CAN FARM THE items with mystic or reaper bonus, even Re-roll till our eyes bleed and our wallets dry.

I would recommend to group up, as that will increase your drop rate significantly, as someone else might get the item you want and be willing to pass it to you. Having said that, I do think after running a quest so many times (ex. such as 5-6 times), the named items should show up on the end reward list, however SSG will never do this. Why? Because they want to make money off of people that are willing to do chest rerolls (which is a terrible way to throw your money away).

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Originally Posted by Ralmeth

I would recommend to group up, as that will increase your drop rate significantly, as someone else might get the item you want and be willing to pass it to you. Having said that, I do think after running a quest so many times (ex. such as 5-6 times), the named items should show up on the end reward list, however SSG will never do this. Why? Because they want to make money off of people that are willing to do chest rerolls (which is a terrible way to throw your money away).

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Maybe they should add an incremental increase to the drop rate every time you run a specific specific quest within a certain period of time...kind of like a reverse ransack.

Low drop rates are there to provide longevity to content that otherwise wouldn't have it. That's the basic premise of most MMOs I know.

Personally, the most fun I have had in a MMO is in PVP. Sadly, most PVP modes in MMOs are just a side addition. That's why I supported Camelot Unchained, since I feel that team DM in an open world is what appeals to me the most.

In my case, I play DDO because it is DnD and it has great character customization; that's it. I see the strategy of low difficulty low drop rates as a pure stupid grind, and I just tolerate it, don't enjoy it.

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Originally Posted by BigErkyKid

Low drop rates are there to provide longevity to content that otherwise wouldn't have it. That's the basic premise of most MMOs I know.

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I thought amazing content was the main dish to provide longevity... and XP of course.
Run bad content for loot/named item is a way to burnout players. Even more when we know that six or twelve months later the itens will be worthless because the next Update will bring new ones, better, moarpauar and easier to get.

Come on... is easier to get a full Ravenloft or Sharn Set than a Torc of the Rayuim II. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech

I see the problem.

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If that is the problem I probably shouldn't be playing DDo huh?

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Originally Posted by Lonnbeimnech

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Originally Posted by krimsonrane

LH

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I see the problem.

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Yep.

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Originally Posted by Arkat

Yep.

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No. Soloists are not second-class citizens, and the game shouldn't be balanced around party play OR around Reaper rates

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Originally Posted by droid327

No. Soloists are not second-class citizens, and the game shouldn't be balanced around party play OR around Reaper rates

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I said nothing about Reaper rates nor did I make a comment about solo vs. group.

Try again.

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Originally Posted by krimsonrane

If that is the problem I probably shouldn't be playing DDo huh?

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Here's how you do it.

lets say you want the legendary cloak of balance from the offshore account.

post an lfm for offshore account levels 20-30

in the description, type: r1 farming cloak multiple runs

people will join, they might even pass you the item you want

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Originally Posted by Arkat

I said nothing about Reaper rates nor did I make a comment about solo vs. group.

Try again.

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Then what's wrong with running LH and/or being solo?

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Originally Posted by droid327

Then what's wrong with running LH and/or being solo?

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On the surface, nothing... until you then complain that you don't get as many named items dropping as a full group of 6 willing to share loot while running on higher difficulties. Of course 6 people sharing loot will see named items more often than only one person looting per run. That's how numbers work. This game is also set up to encourage (but not require) both grouping and pushing oneself to run higher difficulties, and this is one of the ways it tries to do so (whether it's successful or not is debatable though). Higher difficulties have better drop rates. Like it or not, this is a fact of this game at this moment in time. Thus the implication that solo + hard = part of the reason why they're seeing less named loot than full group + elite/reaper.

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Originally Posted by droid327

Then what's wrong with running LH and/or being solo?

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Nothing wrong with running solo. I never said there was anything wrong with running solo. Go back a look at my first post a little more carefully.

LH, however, is the problem. If you want the best chance for an item compared with the effort to do it, EE is easily the best difficulty to do loot runs in.

An EE difficulty non-raid end chest gives you a 33% chance for a named item.

An LH difficulty non-raid end chest gives you a 16% chance for a named item.

An LN difficulty non-raid end chest gives you a 10% chance for a named item.

Source: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...45#post6091545

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Originally Posted by droid327

No. Soloists are not second-class citizens, and the game shouldn't be balanced around party play OR around Reaper rates

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When you see a group "get more" then the soloist it has more to do with numbers.

Everyone has the same base rate for a chance at the item(s), the difference is the soloist gets a single chance, while the group gets up to 6 chances (12 when it comes to raids).

Now this doesn't mean individually the group is better off then the soloist, until you factor in the "share factor". Not trying to open up the "My loot is my loot" debate of the early days :).

It is this "share factor" which gives grouping an advantage. Some of that is because they can complete the quest on a higher difficulty that grants a greater chance. Some of that is because it increases the opportunity that the item desired drops.

Now with PuGs it is hit or miss on the "share factor", static group or more tightly joined groups, such as guilds or "common questing buddies" tend to have a greater "share factor".

So, if the drop rate is increased to give everyone a greater possibility of getting a rare item, you will actually have a multiplicative effect on groups and increase the "share factors" chance even more. Making it even wider margin for these types of groups over soloists.

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Originally Posted by Arkat

An EE difficulty non-raid end chest gives you a 33% chance for a named item.

An LH difficulty non-raid end chest gives you a 16% chance for a named item.

An LN difficulty non-raid end chest gives you a 10% chance for a named item.

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So, the real problem is... Game loot design! Not how OP is running it.

Someone will say "Run in groups"... surprise surprise... groups are doomed in DDO right now! Soloist has become a play style for a far wide population that the Drop Rates are totally anachronic and out of sync with the game reality.

The way to someone run solo EE or Er1 is to farm itens on LN and LH, or PIKE in groups begging for scraps that other people already has (I'm not against that... it is just not practical anymore)... but... surprise surprise... high level named itens (L26 to L29) are praised to feed sentient Jewels... so Go beg for itens elsewhere NOOB. Get Gud or Get Lost!

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Originally Posted by Enoach

It is this "share factor" which gives grouping an advantage.

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Originally Posted by Arkat

Nothing wrong with running solo. I never said there was anything wrong with running solo. Go back a look at my first post a little more carefully.

LH, however, is the problem. If you want the best chance for an item compared with the effort to do it, EE is easily the best difficulty to do loot runs in.

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Originally Posted by vryxnr

On the surface, nothing... until you then complain that you don't get as many named items dropping as a full group of 6 willing to share loot while running on higher difficulties...Thus the implication that solo + hard = part of the reason why they're seeing less named loot than full group + elite/reaper.

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The question is one of balance point, though. Not everyone can (or wants to, or should be expected to) group. So balancing the game, or our expectations, around what you can get in a full group running EE is unfair. That shouldnt be the default, and it shouldnt be a "problem" if you arent doing it that way.

Likewise, though to a lesser extent, not everyone can run EE. EH is much more accessible to a wider set of soloists. Especially with the power spike you get with gear designed since RL, and doubly so since Sharn - to run in EE, you need the gear that you can best farm by running in EE. Its an ontological dilemma.

No one is saying that solo EH should give you the same drop rates as 6-man EE passing. Just that the disparity cant be so great that its unreasonably difficult to farm items in solo EH. That should be the balance point for 'baseline' farming, and scale drop rates up from there. Again, it shouldnt be a 'problem' if people are running solo EH, it should just 'be much easier' if you're in EE.

And that gets back to the OP's point, needing to run sometimes dozens of repetitions to farm a single named item. That's unreasonably difficult.

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Originally Posted by droid327

...

No one is saying that solo EH should give you the same drop rates as 6-man EE passing. Just that the disparity cant be so great that its unreasonably difficult to farm items in solo EH. That should be the balance point for 'baseline' farming, and scale drop rates up from there. Again, it shouldnt be a 'problem' if people are running solo EH, it should just 'be much easier' if you're in EE.

...

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So how do you improve the solo EH drop rate without improving the 6-man EE "share factor", without swinging the pendulum to over favor solo driving the game even further in that direction. Just asking for the group of us that prefer grouping over running content solo?

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Originally Posted by Enoach

So how do you improve the solo EH drop rate without improving the 6-man EE "share factor", without swinging the pendulum to over favor solo driving the game even further in that direction. Just asking for the group of us that prefer grouping over running content solo?

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So many answers to that...

1 - List of guest named itens rewards each 3 completions
2 - List of quest named itens on story line completion
3 - List of quest named itens on saga completion
4 - Buy named itens with an exclusive pack/expansion NPC (i.e. Vistani Totens in Legendary Ravenloft... it would be expanded to Vistani Talismans on Heroics)
5 - Entry Game Mode at Quest Entrance - Farming for named loot (No EXP rewarded for increase at Named Itens drop rate)
6 - Equalize the drop rate percentage for no-bonus loot (Elite and Reaper are the only way to get itens with Mythic or Reaper Bonus)


There are ways to soften/improving it without poke to much on the "share bogus factor"...

I have no sympathy for you.

In one breath you say these characters sole reason for being is to farm, then with the other, state how you don't want to run with the type of characters that will get you to the chest the fastest.

If it's just to farm, who cares who wins.

Dagg.

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Originally Posted by Potatofasf

So many answers to that...

1 - List of guest named itens rewards each 3 completions
2 - List of quest named itens on story line completion
3 - List of quest named itens on saga completion
4 - Buy named itens with an exclusive pack/expansion NPC (i.e. Vistani Totens in Legendary Ravenloft... it would be expanded to Vistani Talismans on Heroics)
5 - Entry Game Mode at Quest Entrance - Farming for named loot (No EXP rewarded for increase at Named Itens drop rate)
6 - Equalize the drop rate percentage for no-bonus loot (Elite and Reaper are the only way to get itens with Mythic or Reaper Bonus)


There are ways to soften/improving it without poke to much on the "share bogus factor"...

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Each of those actually multiplies the "share factor" indirectly, potentially increasing the willingness to share for those that see named loot as "food".

However, I do like Item 4. I like how that was implemented in RL and also how raids have gained that giving those who have a different path then 20 completions before TR. But even that does not 'balance' the drop rate between solo and group.

It is interesting you call this a "bogus" factor, yet it is the one of issue you have with the difference between solo and group. The other being that "sharing the load" gives groups advantage on completions both in difficulty and time.

Why punish those that have mastered the social aspect of an MMO?

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Originally Posted by Enoach

Why punish those that have mastered the social aspect of an MMO?

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Because the in-game population is eroding faster and the "social aspect" of the DDO is long overdue... the most social aspect in the game is via private channels, discord or static groups. LFM and PUGs has becoming an critical issue and the solo community has increased massively. DDO has lost the "group effect", so I ask you back, Why punish those that play solo?

Solo players...
1 - waste more time than groups doing quests
2 - work twice as hard to handle higher difficulties
3 - don't benefit from "share factor"
4 - are prone to not do Raids
5 - builds are starve on gear/swap
6 - burnout faster

Isn't a question of "balance" the drop between solo and group... is a matter of softening the game for those that choose to play solo for N motives.

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Originally Posted by Potatofasf

Isn't a question of "balance" the drop between solo and group... is a matter of softening the game for those that choose to play solo for N motives.

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No.

No one is forcing anyone to play they way they want. And IF they decide to go it alone without even bothering to put up an LFM or asking for help to achieve the goal, they should understand consequences of that.

A solo player can also reroll chests, multibox to increase drop chances, play a build which can do the content they are farming, use any number of alternative gearing options (even if they are not them absolute best), and so forth.

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Originally Posted by voxson5

No.

No one is forcing anyone to play they way they want. And IF they decide to go it alone without even bothering to put up an LFM or asking for help to achieve the goal, they should understand consequences of that.

A solo player can also reroll chests, multibox to increase drop chances, play a build which can do the content they are farming, use any number of alternative gearing options (even if they are not them absolute best), and so forth.

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The game now is Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment.
We have to put a LFM asking for help and wait the good will of others, because we are playing in a wasteland that has 300 players per server at peak hours.

Yes, the game is forcing players to go solo. The actual state of the game has so many subdivisions in population that sticky in a group farming itens is a utopia.
Most are one and done for the sake of TRing faster, most are veterans grinding past lifes boosted on XP Pots and have all itens they even bother open chests, any named loot is food for SJ, they zerg and go out so fast that pass item on chests is a "waste time" for them.

Because of commentaries as yours, many has left this game for good and are playing and putting their money elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by voxson5

No.

No one is forcing anyone to play they way they want. And IF they decide to go it alone without even bothering to put up an LFM or asking for help to achieve the goal, they should understand consequences of that.

A solo player can also reroll chests, multibox to increase drop chances, play a build which can do the content they are farming, use any number of alternative gearing options (even if they are not them absolute best), and so forth.

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35 shard per reroll? nope.
build a FOTM all the way to 30 just to farm? nope. it take me at least 4-6 weeks to tr. I'm 3 lives away from a ten year odyssey to get basic completionist. that is the only TRing I'll be doing and i don't want to do that.
I'm using the best gear I have available already.

We all know random loot is trash. so why is there an argument?
We all know farming is a huge time sink grind and a bigger turnoff to game play. So why is there an argument?

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Originally Posted by Opener

The game now is Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment.
We have to put a LFM asking for help and wait the good will of others, because we are playing in a wasteland that has 300 players per server at peak hours.

Yes, the game is forcing players to go solo. The actual state of the game has so many subdivisions in population that sticky in a group farming itens is a utopia.
Most are one and done for the sake of TRing faster, most are veterans grinding past lifes boosted on XP Pots and have all itens they even bother open chests, any named loot is food for SJ, they zerg and go out so fast that pass item on chests is a "waste time" for them.

Because of commentaries as yours, many has left this game for good and are playing and putting their money elsewhere.

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Boo hoo?

Your experience /= others

The whole point of the game is to grind gear and lives until you are so strong the game holds no challenge for you.

Everyone knows that. Anything else is just dumb sentimentality.

If you can't kill 10 things with every attack you just have entirely missed the point of DDO.

You really just need to grind more.

The only real challenge to this game IS how good a grinder are you.

The best and fastest grinders are the ones who are the best at the game.

Content is nothing. Fast XP or powerful items that allow you to get XP faster is all that matters.

It's sad because this is such a good game otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Potatofasf

The way to someone run solo EE or Er1 is to farm itens on LN and LH, or PIKE in groups begging for scraps that other people already has

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No, you don't want to start by farming EE or legendary items. That doesn't allow you to level in heroics or epics and get past lives while farming gear because your character will be ungeared and too weak to do so. You want to first farm the heroic gear set(s) for your build(s). Then optimize a lvl 15-21 gear set around that heroic set, which will allow you to level in epics and legendary.

A cap alt is amazing for farming items while your other characters level.

That optimized set of level 15-21 gear may allow a well-built character on an up to date build to solo legendary reaper Sharn around level 21 (maybe EE or EH for weaker builds and characters), which is then when and how you get the epic gear sets over several epic lives.

Don't pike, don't beg for scraps. Assemble a level 15-21 gear set of Death and Destruction, then go get your own gear as you do epic past lives. Any level 30 character, even a first life, should have no problem in heroic elite Sharn farming gear or collectibles for Cannith Crafting. The epic and legendary gear you really don't need and will barely use anyways for past lives since it is mostly level 29.

My characters did a half dozen epic past lives with a ton of Sharn before even having the legendary sets to use at 29. Which didn't bother me at all, because the foundation 15-21 gear set was solid, and a 29 set is barely used.

A lot of people try to skip steps. They try to skip to legendary without mastering the heroic and low epic item base, or they try to skip to reaper without mastering elite. Or they try to skip to heroic reaper Sharn without a solid heroic cannith/rl set. The game just doesn't work like that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by droid327

Drop rates arent that bad, stastically. You have a 1-in-12 chance of getting any named item you're looking for, in the Sharn style of quest design. That means, on average, you run a quest 12 times to get your item of interest, which isnt bad in the long run.

The problem is that while that's balanced statistically, which is good for the whole population (which is how they should balance quest design), it does create edge cases where you're left out running 40+ times for a single item (like me, chasing the heroic Family Recruit Sigil...)

That's immensely unsatisfying for the people who dont have RNGsus' blessings. There probably should be a safety net built into content like Sharn, where the items and especially the set bonuses are so important to defining your basic functionality in many builds and so you can really get stuck in a logjam if that last item just wont drop for you.

I wouldnt mind seeing a third-completion full list like Threnal, or being able to trade in Sharn mats for named items. Basically, by the time you've done 27 quests and still dont have it (ie 10% of people grinding an item at 1-in-12 chances), you should get your item if you havent found it yet. That wont push the average completions-per-acquisition down too much, so it keeps the statistics the same for the population, but it removes those unfortunate people stuck out on the tail of the binomial curve.

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Of course you are right. Across the "broad" base of this MassivelyMulti-playerOnlineRPG chances for loot in Sharn runs about 8%. Here is the thing though...why keep it RNG at all? So a few people on one end of the curve get the hell beat out of them on loot while the winners on the other end benefit from the misery that balances their benefit? Now to be clear, my luck is middling, but I understand the frustration. It IS needlessly complicated to follow a "grading on a curve" mentality, especially considering the nature of the GAME. So I will propose yet again, a universal token system where access to loot can be throttled by frequency and quantity of drop rate for tokens and cost of items in tokens. This can be done. The system is already in play; the "newer" raid loot menus. Eliminate the 1:12 common drops, and leave the chances for mythic/reaper intact, perhaps even adding incredibly slight chances to be hit by lightning twice in the same spot on the same day on normal for these drops.

Using your example of about 8% drop rate, calling it your 1:12, and pulling a token cost for an item from my behind...

Loot Item A from Sharn costs 120 UniTokens (set by Item Budget). 10 Unitokens for Sharn (Level Appropriate for Loot Item A) quest completion. 12 Completions nets 120 UniTokens. Go to quest giver, trade tokens for loot.

The item still has to be earned. There is still a chance at that .01% efficiency upgrade the "top tier" player desires from a mythic/reaper bonus, and there is light at the end of every tunnel for the "casuals." Not to mention, there would less desire to hammer one quest out repeatedly for the benefit of the loot. Have we not already had this problem with experience awards in quests? As long as there is incentive to play a particular quest for a particular item for your particular build this particular life...well you get the point. A token system broadens the options for play as well.

TLDR;

Fix with a Universal Token System for Non-Raid Loot, and one Universal Token System for Raid Loot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anasu

Of course you are right. Across the "broad" base of this MassivelyMulti-playerOnlineRPG chances for loot in Sharn runs about 8%. Here is the thing though...why keep it RNG at all? So a few people on one end of the curve get the hell beat out of them on loot while the winners on the other end benefit from the misery that balances their benefit? Now to be clear, my luck is middling, but I understand the frustration. It IS needlessly complicated to follow a "grading on a curve" mentality, especially considering the nature of the GAME. So I will propose yet again, a universal token system where access to loot can be throttled by frequency and quantity of drop rate for tokens and cost of items in tokens. This can be done. The system is already in play; the "newer" raid loot menus. Eliminate the 1:12 common drops, and leave the chances for mythic/reaper intact, perhaps even adding incredibly slight chances to be hit by lightning twice in the same spot on the same day on normal for these drops.

Using your example of about 8% drop rate, calling it your 1:12, and pulling a token cost for an item from my behind...

Loot Item A from Sharn costs 120 UniTokens (set by Item Budget). 10 Unitokens for Sharn (Level Appropriate for Loot Item A) quest completion. 12 Completions nets 120 UniTokens. Go to quest giver, trade tokens for loot.

The item still has to be earned. There is still a chance at that .01% efficiency upgrade the "top tier" player desires from a mythic/reaper bonus, and there is light at the end of every tunnel for the "casuals." Not to mention, there would less desire to hammer one quest out repeatedly for the benefit of the loot. Have we not already had this problem with experience awards in quests? As long as there is incentive to play a particular quest for a particular item for your particular build this particular life...well you get the point. A token system broadens the options for play as well.

TLDR;

Fix with a Universal Token System for Non-Raid Loot, and one Universal Token System for Raid Loot.

---

That won’t happen.

The whole reward on a roll scheme apparently is better to mental hack us to run content more often. Pure casino level hacks.

They partially undid it for raids because I bet their data showed they aren’t run much.

That said, ddo removed some of the luck elements from grinds already with the whole xp based grind. I guess for some people the appeal of running relatively easy stuff to no end is enough of a mental hack to get the hooked. There is no denying that there is a grinder fraction of players across any mmo.

I am also surprised that lots of players tring to no end do so because they are optimizing for an end build, when it is clear there is no end game in ddo not there has been for many years. Whatever, it works and ssg rides it hard.

Loot chances are a gimmick to extend gameplay beyond the point of replay ability based on fun. Of course it is painful to have to wait for that drop, it is not a system designed to create fun by rather hook you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tilomere

No, you don't want to start by farming EE or legendary items. That doesn't allow you to level in heroics or epics and get past lives while farming gear because your character will be ungeared and too weak to do so. You want to first farm the heroic gear set(s) for your build(s). Then optimize a lvl 15-21 gear set around that heroic set, which will allow you to level in epics and legendary.

A cap alt is amazing for farming items while your other characters level.

That optimized set of level 15-21 gear may allow a well-built character on an up to date build to solo legendary reaper Sharn around level 21 (maybe EE or EH for weaker builds and characters), which is then when and how you get the epic gear sets over several epic lives.

Don't pike, don't beg for scraps. Assemble a level 15-21 gear set of Death and Destruction, then go get your own gear as you do epic past lives. Any level 30 character, even a first life, should have no problem in heroic elite Sharn farming gear or collectibles for Cannith Crafting. The epic and legendary gear you really don't need and will barely use anyways for past lives since it is mostly level 29.

My characters did a half dozen epic past lives with a ton of Sharn before even having the legendary sets to use at 29. Which didn't bother me at all, because the foundation 15-21 gear set was solid, and a 29 set is barely used.

A lot of people try to skip steps. They try to skip to legendary without mastering the heroic and low epic item base, or they try to skip to reaper without mastering elite. Or they try to skip to heroic reaper Sharn without a solid heroic cannith/rl set. The game just doesn't work like that.

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lol If isn't Tilo trying to sell onde of his builds...

The week before last week I was doing the Lordsmarch Plaza quests ... And I was quite surprised that I didn't get Named Loot even in the rewards list ... But on the other hand this might have been WAI since I was playing that series (plus Sentinels Of Stormreach not much later) through with a level 15 character ...
I think I got only 1 Named Item through a chest box ... Later, in "Sentinels", a bit more.

It's the eternal grinding that totally made me disappointed and caused my absence to the game for the past 3 months.
I ran a two dozen R1 Sharn cycles on 3 toons without completing a set for each one. Not even talking about raid gear to replace the regular nameds. Running quests over and over and over made me sick while sinking my spare time on can-be-loot, mostly ending up with nothing in my hands. That was bearable some years ago while "actual" lacking named loot still could be bought at the AH. Not-tradeble LGS made it worse and anything new went BtA anyway As long as DDO doesn't support guaranteed loot or trade-in or arc-choice endrewards to choose from without massive grind, I've stopped my activities here. Running a quest 10x is my acceptable limit. Actual concept is out of my taste.

No good alternatives is what makes it so painful.

- Old content named items are often many grades behind. Plus sometimes is even more grindy to get... old era droprates... SSS loot...
- Crafting is many grades behind
- Random loot both many grades behind, and well, ehr being random...with little player interaction ( bad game economy) to help out with large samples to pick from.
- Raid loot with the recent passes are fine, altho it is extra rare to find groups as a PUGist/Soloist, and some players just dont find the content fun to play.
- Challenge loot is many grades behind, and uneven across the level ranges
- Event loot for the most part is many grades behind
- Shop vendor loot is many grades behind, sorry I mean it doesnt exists and was never a thing, even tho it is pretty much a standard RPG feature ___O___O___


Start to see the pattern yet? :)

Opinion
- Sets are too powerful, they are mostly mandatory pieces for a decent layout. I think some of that power should overlap with past live typed bonuses, so if one grinds out the PLs, they can free themselves from the set limitations, others may find it better to just accept the gear grind vs the PL grind.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by janave

No good alternatives is what makes it so painful.

- Old content named items are often many grades behind. Plus sometimes is even more grindy to get... old era droprates... SSS loot...
- Crafting is many grades behind
- Random loot both many grades behind, and well, ehr being random...with little player interaction ( bad game economy) to help out with large samples to pick from.
- Raid loot with the recent passes are fine, altho it is extra rare to find groups as a PUGist/Soloist, and some players just dont find the content fun to play.
- Challenge loot is many grades behind, and uneven across the level ranges
- Event loot for the most part is many grades behind
- Shop vendor loot is many grades behind, sorry I mean it doesnt exists and was never a thing, even tho it is pretty much a standard RPG feature ___O___O___


Start to see the pattern yet? :)

Opinion
- Sets are too powerful, they are mostly mandatory pieces for a decent layout. I think some of that power should overlap with past live typed bonuses, so if one grinds out the PLs, they can free themselves from the set limitations, others may find it better to just accept the gear grind vs the PL grind.

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Yes, it is op wrt other option.

But what truly makes it bad is that the quests in Sharn have fewer interesting optionally than ravenloft. They lack inherent replay value, with several corridor to end line quests. Even the new free pack has more effort into it.

They refuse to give us arenas, randomizes challenges or other more competition oriented quests. Them, they craft quests with zero replay value (linear, bio locks, one solution, no randomization) and give us xp or gear grinds to keep us wpplaying.

Are we still in 2009?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TedSandyman

The whole point of the game is to grind gear and lives until you are so strong the game holds no challenge for you.

Everyone knows that. Anything else is just dumb sentimentality.

If you can't kill 10 things with every attack you just have entirely missed the point of DDO.

You really just need to grind more.

The only real challenge to this game IS how good a grinder are you.

The best and fastest grinders are the ones who are the best at the game.

Content is nothing. Fast XP or powerful items that allow you to get XP faster is all that matters.

It's sad because this is such a good game otherwise.

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Sad but accurate.

200% accurate...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Potatofasf

The way to someone run solo EE or Er1 is to farm itens on LN and LH, or PIKE in groups begging for scraps that other people already has (I'm not against that... it is just not practical anymore)... but... surprise surprise... high level named itens (L26 to L29) are praised to feed sentient Jewels... so Go beg for itens elsewhere NOOB. Get Gud or Get Lost!

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I used to put all epic named items that I was not going to use up for roll until I found one or two individuals who would roll for anything and everything. When I challenge this stance and say, for example, "is a rogue going to use that named heavy armour" I am regularly told that it is for their next life but I checked and their next life is the same as the last life, they're just stealing my sentient food. So my choices are: be a mug and let them or don't be a mug and feed my weapon. If someone genuinely needs an item they should say so on entering the dungeon - under these circumstances I will happily pass any item that I'm not looking for, but if you only suddenly "need" the item when you see it in the chest then I'm dubious and think you're stealing my sentient food.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Loholt-UK

I used to put all epic named items that I was not going to use up for roll until I found one or two individuals who would roll for anything and everything. When I challenge this stance and say, for example, "is a rogue going to use that named heavy armour" I am regularly told that it is for their next life but I checked and their next life is the same as the last life, they're just stealing my sentient food. So my choices are: be a mug and let them or don't be a mug and feed my weapon. If someone genuinely needs an item they should say so on entering the dungeon - under these circumstances I will happily pass any item that I'm not looking for, but if you only suddenly "need" the item when you see it in the chest then I'm dubious and think you're stealing my sentient food.

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I do understand you fully and agree with your assessment. Is the actual state of the game.
What I said before that the "group effect" in DDO has dead a long time ago. The Hamster Wheel, Grind and PaytoWin Walls, development choices had put the game on a state of greedy and hoarding behavior, nothing is enough and all is too little for some players.

Some of us, prefer to solo than be "competing" with greeders and hoarders.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Potatofasf

Some of us, prefer to solo than be "competing" with greeders and hoarders.

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One of the reasons I prefer solo play.

Sharn and RL droprate is incredibly high compared to most content in this game...let alone most other MMOs.

I have to agree.

Did R4-R6 Mines of Tethyamar chain and didn't get a single named item.

I've also run into the Thunderholme raid chest bug more than anyone else I know, where nothing (no threads, ingots, scales, runes, or raid items) drops in my raid chests.


This is what I get while a buddy has pulled like 15 schism shards... If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigErkyKid

I am also surprised that lots of players tring to no end do so because they are optimizing for an end build, when it is clear there is no end game in ddo not there has been for many years. Whatever, it works and ssg rides it hard.

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Explain "end-game" in any MMO, please. There's certainly an end-game in DDO, and it's the same as most MMOs.

I like hanging out at cap, and working on gear, and when I get the gear, testing myself on hard content at mid-to-high reaper, while continuing to advance my character gaining reaper xp and sentient food.

That's end-game. It's fun. Tough quests, my character is all "done", and yet still advancing.

AND, when I want a change of pace, I can TR and start over, usually with a new character build that plays differently from what I was just running.

What exactly do you guys want for "end-game"?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by janave

Opinion
- Sets are too powerful, they are mostly mandatory pieces for a decent layout. I think some of that power should overlap with past live typed bonuses, so if one grinds out the PLs, they can free themselves from the set limitations, others may find it better to just accept the gear grind vs the PL grind.

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I agree with this, and I like your solution idea.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SynalonEtuul

Sharn and RL droprate is incredibly high compared to most content in this game...let alone most other MMOs.

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Yes, higher than other MMOs typical droprates, but not high compared to rest of the game really, could maybe say that in 2014 or something, but going way back the game has had the same droprate that we've seen in RL/Sharn, and then only in higher difficulties.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6091545

Most of the game is now 10/16/33%, you have to go back to S/S/S/Jack Jibbers/MOTU era to see low droprates, that or play normal/hard, which in the modern 5 items per mission era would result in 2 or 3% chance of getting the item you want per run. That means 30 to 50 solo runs per item, assuming average luck. I find running in a group and doing elite and reaper really warps droprate perception, you end up seeing the item you want dropping once every 3 runs on average in a full group doing elite/reaper. 33%+ chance times 6 players divided by 5 items, 39.6% chance to see your item in the chest each run. Given item sharing is common among fixed groups, guild groups and friends, and you could end up with whatever you want in literally 1/10th the chests compared to the hard/normal soloer, and you tend to get those chests far faster while making some decent xp/rxp as well. Even an elite duo will get the items 4x faster than a hard soloer, assuming different gear plans.

The n/h/e droprate strategy pays off really well for elite connected players, but I can still remember way back when I had a rough time in hard and hated the 2 to 3% droprate with a passion. Maybe it's time to change the droprate to 15/24/33 or something. New players need some help, and shouldn't need to build a strategy around mooching to enjoy the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by janave

Opinion
- Sets are too powerful, they are mostly mandatory pieces for a decent layout. I think some of that power should overlap with past live typed bonuses, so if one grinds out the PLs, they can free themselves from the set limitations, others may find it better to just accept the gear grind vs the PL grind.

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That idea is DOA, SSG won't go for it. They want to sell us the powerful new set and the PL grind both. If you only need one or the other it becomes a much less likely sale.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by krimsonrane

We all know farming is a huge time sink grind and a bigger turnoff to game play. So why is there an argument?

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Because it doesn't have to be, and it isn't most of the time for most of us. EE with a party of 6 pulls 12x as many named items as EH solo. We all have our white whales, but I farmed out 6 RL items in a single gaming session when setting up for my previous TR. Only one of them did I have to swap toons for.

Something like LSlaveLords or LGS you can talk about, but even LSL was just price-reduced massively to where it's probably worth farming a bit for.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tilomere

No, you don't want to start by farming EE or legendary items. That doesn't allow you to level in heroics or epics and get past lives while farming gear because your character will be ungeared and too weak to do so. You want to first farm the heroic gear set(s) for your build(s). Then optimize a lvl 15-21 gear set around that heroic set, which will allow you to level in epics and legendary.

A lot of people try to skip steps. They try to skip to legendary without mastering the heroic and low epic item base, or they try to skip to reaper without mastering elite. Or they try to skip to heroic reaper Sharn without a solid heroic cannith/rl set. The game just doesn't work like that.

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+1 this. You need to have some stuff to get more stuff; otherwise you'll need to get carried by people who do have said stuff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Opener

lol If isn't Tilo trying to sell onde of his builds...

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if all those who talk about tilo's builds, just tried them... they would discover a whole new DDO, that build does at 21 what most builds can't do at cap lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by acemonkey

Maybe it's time to change the droprate to 15/24/33 or something. New players need some help, and shouldn't need to build a strategy around mooching to enjoy the game.

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This is a decent idea. Players who can only handle hard difficulty need a way to get the gear to let them run elite.

But, as far as mooching... guys, if you see a LFM for elite or R1, join. If you can solo on hard, you'll be able to contribute in a group on elite or R1. No one is going to consider you a mooch. Most of those runs are for fast experience, and people do still pass items in the chests (at least on Thelanis)

Now, don't join a R4-R7 run unless you know the quest and can contribute.

to get the blue you're searching for its the draw random with replacement calculation

Percent Chance of Getting the Blue After so many runs =

(1 - (1 - Percent of Blue at Difficulty / Number of blue Items possible)^Number of Runs you've done of that quest)*100

So if youre seeking a particular item from a chest that drops 4 items:

you solo on Elite:
8.25% on Run 1
~50% on Run 8
~80% on Run 19
~90% on Run 26
~95% on Run 35
~99% on run 54

If you solo the same quest on Hard:

4% on Run 1
~50% on Run 17
~80% on Run 40
~90% on Run 57
~95% on Run 73
~99% on run 113

So if you 6 man the quest:
It will take your group roughly 9 runs to guarantee the drop on Elite and 19 Runs on Hard. but with probability there is no guarantee... you could roll outside the window a million times its just really unlikely.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scut207

to get the blue you're searching for its the draw random with replacement calculation

Percent Chance of Getting the Blue After so many runs =

(1 - (1 - Percent of Blue at Difficulty / Number of blue Items possible)^Number of Runs you've done of that quest)*100

So if youre seeking a particular item from a chest that drops 4 items:

you solo on Elite:
8.25% on Run 1
~50% on Run 8
~80% on Run 19
~90% on Run 26
~95% on Run 35
~99% on run 54

If you solo the same quest on Hard:

4% on Run 1
~50% on Run 17
~80% on Run 40
~90% on Run 57
~95% on Run 73
~99% on run 113

So if you 6 man the quest:
It will take your group roughly 9 runs to guarantee the drop on Elite and 19 Runs on Hard. but with probability there is no guarantee... you could roll outside the window a million times its just really unlikely.

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I like your numbers. To have an item we have to be reaaaaal Lucky, like kissing Lady Luck under a Moonlight spell or grind farm till our eyes bleed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigErkyKid

I am also surprised that lots of players tring to no end do so because they are optimizing for an end build, when it is clear there is no end game in ddo not there has been for many years.

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This is a bold statement but true to form as it has no basis in reality.

Just because you don't play endgame doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I play one toon and she's been at level 30 for the past 4 months and every one of those days she has got a little better with raid gear, Reaper points, Sentient XP, and the stuff you can buy with Threads of Fate (which you've never heard of because there is no endgame apparently). The only reason I have now to TR again is to reset the RXP first time bonuses because, guess what, I'm playing endgame, and of late I've been doing it just to ruin your fun, it's now my main motivator.

I also find the OPs premise that he has run sharn 6 times and found 1 blue to be somewhat exaggeration.

you have a 6 * 17(total Num of Quests) = 102 plays.

on Hard you hit 99% chance of a random blue around run 27. He's likely got 3-12sh blues out of sharn. Just doesn't seem like a lot for 102 runs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Loholt-UK

This is a bold statement but true to form as it has no basis in reality.

Just because you don't play endgame doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I play one toon and she's been at level 30 for the past 4 months and every one of those days she has got a little better with raid gear, Reaper points, Sentient XP, and the stuff you can buy with Threads of Fate (which you've never heard of because there is no endgame apparently). The only reason I have now to TR again is to reset the RXP first time bonuses because, guess what, I'm playing endgame, and of late I've been doing it just to ruin your fun, it's now my main motivator.

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well if you really want to ruin his fun, play an inquis/sorc on his server.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scut207

I also find the OPs premise that he has run sharn 6 times and found 1 blue to be somewhat exaggeration.

you have a 6 * 17(total Num of Quests) = 102 plays.

on Hard you hit 99% chance of a random blue around run 27. He's likely got 3-12sh blues out of sharn. Just doesn't seem like a lot for 102 runs.

---

It would be the case, if we aren't talking about Dices... even on a d100 where we have 1/100 chance to grab an specific number, that number would take more than 1000times to roll.
Even on 102 plays we could end up never seen named itens, is luck based, not rewarding based.

Edit: and RNGod in DDO stinks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scut207

I also find the OPs premise that he has run sharn 6 times and found 1 blue to be somewhat exaggeration.

you have a 6 * 17(total Num of Quests) = 102 plays.

on Hard you hit 99% chance of a random blue around run 27. He's likely got 3-12sh blues out of sharn. Just doesn't seem like a lot for 102 runs.

---

i said it right. Started my 6th run with only one item drop from all 3 series total. No exaggerations. I got the light armor with neg amp. I have no undead toons. That was a few days ago. I haven't really played since. I log on to get my daily rolls and log off right away. I'm the only active person in the guild so it gets real boring when you either have nothing to do or you're just tired of fruitless time sinks. i could finish my TRing but I don't have a taste for that grind either right now. I guess you could say i've been ground down to a dull nub. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scut207

I also find the OPs premise that he has run sharn 6 times and found 1 blue to be somewhat exaggeration.

you have a 6 * 17(total Num of Quests) = 102 plays.

on Hard you hit 99% chance of a random blue around run 27. He's likely got 3-12sh blues out of sharn. Just doesn't seem like a lot for 102 runs.

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I had worse luck than that. And i believe OP.

Some packs drop blues like candy (Storm Horns for example, I get at least one blue (average is 2) per quest, even on EN, but Tethyamar gives me maybe one blue in entire chain on HE).

And there are other packs with sought for items that have suspicious drop rate.

One example is DD chain and last quest has as NPC reward 50% chance of Ioun stone (wiki says) with 100% on every third run. My main had 36 quest runs last life and saw ioun stones ONLY on third runs, not a single stone on other runs. Calculate what are odds that something that has 50% chance to appear does not appear in 24 chances (no, quest was not ransacked, kept track of it, and runs were spread over 3 months)

Also ran Gingerspyce's teaching raids. and one was Baba on LN and we got 2 named which were duplicates, and on seeing we got duplicate, veterans of that raid commented that it's common to get duplicate loot in it.

Smells like borked drop rate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Potatofasf

It would be the case, if we aren't talking about Dices... even on a d100 where we have 1/100 chance to grab an specific number, that number would take more than 1000times to roll.
Even on 102 plays we could end up never seen named itens, is luck based, not rewarding based.

Edit: and RNGod in DDO stinks

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I am talking about a fair d100. you have exactly 1:100 chance of getting that number every time you roll it. People confuse that with probability without replacement which is entirely different calculation.

and my calcs are only as good as the info we seem to all go by: Elite = 33 Hard =16 N=10

Quote:

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Originally Posted by krimsonrane

i said it right. Started my 6th run with only one item drop from all 3 series total. No exaggerations. I got the light armor with neg amp. I have no undead toons. That was a few days ago. I haven't really played since. I log on to get my daily rolls and log off right away. I'm the only active person in the guild so it gets real boring when you either have nothing to do or you're just tired of fruitless time sinks. i could finish my TRing but I don't have a taste for that grind either right now. I guess you could say i've been ground down to a dull nub. :)

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well take solace in the fact that the probability of this occuring is 0.0000385%

BigErk, what do you think end-game should be?

Currently end-game in DDO is gear, reaper xp, sentient xp, trying harder and harder reaper levels with your capped character.

When there was no advancement at cap and elite was the highest difficulty and it was too easy, I agree there was little end-game in DDO.

But that's not the case now. High reaper requires paying attention, even for strong capped characters. There's advancement even while sitting at cap. BtA gear means you get gear for alts even at cap. Threads of Fate means you get to slowly work on raid gear for yourself or even for alts.

Plenty of reason to hang out at cap.

What exactly do YOU want end-game to be?

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Originally Posted by scut207

I am talking about a fair 100d. you have exactly 1:100 chance of getting that number every time you roll it. People confuse that with probability without replacement which is entirely different calculation.

and my calcs are only as good as the info we seem to all go by: Elite = 33 Hard =16 N=10

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I didn't mean your calculations are wrong, I was just saying the game haven't a fair way to minimize RNG effect even after 100 playthrough. We can do the same content 100times and have bad luck in all 100times, worse we have a Ransack system that diminishes our attempts as a punishment for put effort and try complete an specific goal.

I guess tldr is to just farm the heroic set at double drop rate of hard that you are running in half the time on heroic elite. Then use that heroic set to farm the epic set in half the time with double drop rate on epic elite. This will give you both the heroic and epic sets in the same time as only farming the epic set directly on legendary hard using a weaker set of gear.

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Originally Posted by Arkat

An EE difficulty non-raid end chest gives you a 33% chance for a named item.
An LH difficulty non-raid end chest gives you a 16% chance for a named item.
An LN difficulty non-raid end chest gives you a 10% chance for a named item.
Source: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...45#post6091545

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I'm calling bs on those numbers; either that, or my entire account is broken. My drop rates are always painfully low even at elite and R1, in all content. I've run the entire sharn series on R1 heroic solo (not over-levelled) 2x this life and got a grand total of 2 named items. On R1 legendary 2x, I got 2 named and 1 artifact. Rloft heroic chain on R1 was only slightly better, think I got 4 named items and that included some optional chests that can drop the barovian/macabre weapons. (Wizard of wines seems particularly bad--there are still a couple of items from there that I've never seen after several dozen runs across many lives, even in full groups.) That ain't averaging out to anywhere close to 33%. My experience this life is consistent with my experience in recent years across two toons and many TRs.

It's seems clear to me that DDO's named gear system has moved to a "pay to win model", since store elixirs and paid re-rolls--which don't count toward ransack--are becoming necessary to pull named loot without grinding until your eyes bleed. Not a fan of this move, especially on content that requires a purchase beyond a VIP subscription in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Bluenoser

(Wizard of wines seems particularly bad--there are still a couple of items from there that I've never seen after several dozen runs across many lives, even in full groups.)

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Seven TRs since bought Ravenloft Expansion - 3 runs each life the entire saga (R1/E/H) - 21 runs total in each quest - yet to see the Braided Cutcord and Icon of Ravenloft.

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Originally Posted by Tilomere

I guess tldr is to just farm the heroic set at double drop rate of hard that you are running in half the time on heroic elite. Then use that heroic set to farm the epic set in half the time with double drop rate on epic elite. This will give you both the heroic and epic sets in the same time as only farming the epic set directly on legendary hard using a weaker set of gear.

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Seems like a good idea and progression.

However, I can't complete most Legendary Elite Quests even WITH legendary RL gear at lvl 30. As fire sorcerer I'm too squishy and no CC works at all (DCs much too low), as GoO warlock tentancles work sometimes but my DPS is too low to kill dangerous mobs fast. Sadly I'm not good at action combat, proper and fast targeting, flawless kiting, (jump-)strafing, circle kiting, fast reactions to heal, switch targets etc. So I take a TON of damage and have to do several difficulties lower than my stats would allow. So doing legendary elite+ solo, below lvl 29 , in heroic/lvl 20 gear is way too tough for me.

Maybe PM wizard or inquistor (with PM wizard or a max dps multiclass) is that much stronger, I don't know.

I prefer grouping for epic gearing (sadly the population is just not there, especially outside of US prime-time).
Grouping IMHO is what MMOs are all about, helping each other, working together with group synergies, sharing gear. Personally I'd always prefer passing gear fo someone to wear instead of using it just as a sentient snack. IMO for sXP there are enough items that almost nobody wants like crappy kinds of Barovian weapons, the 20th kindred spirit drop etc

I try to not fret over this though, I'll do legendary gear farming when theres a group or someone joins my LFM within like 20minutes, otherwise it's farming lower level quests (or alt-tab doing something else) until something interesting comes up in the LFM.

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Originally Posted by Potatofasf

1 - List of guest named itens rewards each 3 completions
2 - List of quest named itens on story line completion
3 - List of quest named itens on saga completion
4 - Buy named itens with an exclusive pack/expansion NPC (i.e. Vistani Totens in Legendary Ravenloft... it would be expanded to Vistani Talismans on Heroics)
5 - Entry Game Mode at Quest Entrance - Farming for named loot (No EXP rewarded for increase at Named Itens drop rate)
6 - Equalize the drop rate percentage for no-bonus loot (Elite and Reaper are the only way to get itens with Mythic or Reaper Bonus)

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+1
All good suggestions that help players that have bad luck or don't complete elite and reaper easily like the veterans.

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Originally Posted by droid327

No. Soloists are not second-class citizens, and the game shouldn't be balanced around party play OR around Reaper rates

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So what is the alternative? When you run a quest solo you get 6 times the named item drop rate? The reason you don't loot farm alone is because 6 drops are better than one and people will often pass things they don't need. There is no real way to get around this. Grouping is always the way to go when item farming.

Wanted to thank the OP for this. It provides valuable information for any decision to to pay for VIP or additional content.

I think R4 might be the sweet spot for sharn. Got a couple drops from each quest yesterday and by the end stuff was going to gems. Maybe we just got lucky, but we'll go again tomorrow to check it. Somebody still needs a artifact pendent. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Arkat

Nothing wrong with running solo. I never said there was anything wrong with running solo. Go back a look at my first post a little more carefully.

LH, however, is the problem. If you want the best chance for an item compared with the effort to do it, EE is easily the best difficulty to do loot runs in.

An EE difficulty non-raid end chest gives you a 33% chance for a named item.

An LH difficulty non-raid end chest gives you a 16% chance for a named item.

An LN difficulty non-raid end chest gives you a 10% chance for a named item.

Source: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...45#post6091545

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Kind of an older thread, but I wanted to comment on this bit.

The problem is that in order to solo stuff on EE, you need the gear to be able to do it. In order to get the gear, you have to run on EE.

It's kind of a catch-22.

I've run the Ravenloft quests until my eyes bleed, I've run the gatekeepers quests over and over again, I've run white plume over a dozen times.

I've found one named drop in all that time. One.

It's reaching the point that I'm starting to wonder if my account is bugged or something, because after opening like 400+ chests, you'd think I'd get more than a single drop...

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Originally Posted by Lorianna

I've found one named drop in all that time. One.

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Welcome to the club - in another MMO my luck was as bad as yours.

Here, since I'm playing for story these days, I don't even care much about it anymore - even although I can fully understand your problem - I do know that I'm missing tons of named loot - but I don't care anymore.

But ... in my guild they had recently dragged me through a certain Ravenloft quest 5 times or so - so that I should get a much better item which made a much better trapper out of my character, then. Since they want me in their groups, it was okay for me. As long as I'm having fun I don't care much about it. And they were very happy when the new item I then had worked !

Maybe you should look out for a casual guild and group with them. I mean a really friendly guild consisting of people who give an item in the end chest to you if you need it (or want it, if you can properly explain, why. Greed usually isn't a good explanation).