New player, Ideas to entice them to stay.

This thread I hope gains traction, and offers some good ideas. We need to do something for new player retention. WE ALL depend on this. And IMHO it's not being addressed.

Everyone here has a fair amount of smarts, or you wouldn't be going past shipwreck shore, so why not put those smarts to work with some good ideas to improve the new players experience.


In no particular order, and not in one post.....

Viewers box. Have some kind of area, or ghosted character to enter raids with high level toons.

How cool would it be to let new players get glimpse of the animations of high end battle. Not an out-of game stream, maybe an overlay would work.

I streamed LTS and VoN 5/6 EE earlier this week for the 4 youngling's of our PnP group that Ive posted about trying to join us here. They saw a classic raid, how teamwork and tactics work, spell animations that blew them away, the traps, the deaths. Part 6 of VoN with it's floating layout and our beloved Vella & Sor'jek in TS. The DM voice overs and backstory opened up their eyes to some cool stories.

That stream hooked them, now I have to hold their hand through the confusing system a new player sees. (I've posted about that many times)

Have global or social panel alerts to raids that are starting for them to "join" & watch.

snip*

Well, there have been hundreds, if not thousands of posts on new player retention, going back to 2006.

I think the open box world of DDO is great.

The problem is DDO has a very steep learning curve and no incentive for vets to participate in that process other than sheer goodwill. I have felt a new starter area would help. Hopefully Sharn will have one. We were supposed to get one with EVeningstar, going backwards. Still waiting.

Other things that would help? From another thread:

Quote:

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1) A revamped and updated Favor system - especially for the older Houses.
2) A revamped character sheet with easier to understand breakdowns of your stats. Would love to have it printable or on an app for your phone, but that is likely pie in the sky.
3) A NEW starter area. We have needed this going back to MoTU.
4) A revamped and updated Quest Log. Between the log and Compendium it is ridiculous. And there should be a visiual in the quest journal showing you the highest difficulty you have completed a quest.
5) Guildship battles. Fight in the skies you skurvydogs! Set it up as Guild v Guild with a leaderboard. Instead of mano a mano, make it group incentivized.
6) Improved Enhancement UI - we have so many trees and choices now it is really clunky to move among them and lock and unlock to remember where the choices are. Can we not have a choice to fill the screen with a 2 rosw?

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One of the biggest things, I think, is navigating the quest log and the adventure compendium.

I don't think we need a viewers box for raids in game. Twitch and videos work fine for that.

We need to organize the 500 some quests into a cohesive set of story lines, using sagas

Create a Korthos saga.
Create a Harbor saga.
Create a WW-STK-Threnal saga.
Create a Necro 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 saga.
Create a shroud flaggers - Shroud - Hox, Vod, Devils of Amrath - ToD saga
Create a GH + Reavers Refuge + return to GH + FoT saga
Create a saga linking all the house J level 5-13 quests together.

Then, give the compendium a Sagas tab that shows the saga name, giver, and level range and, if you have the saga, a visual progression meter (like the cannith crafting level meter) and a (4/13) counter and what the completed quests are the "to be done" quests and the standard progression.

That would be very helpful, imo.

I'm always open to an idea to help new players out, but this is not a good idea. Raids are kind of weird in that they are not how a typical 6-player quest plays out, and will definitely not be the experience of new players. Instead, they are probably going to try to solo or short-man 6-player quests. When I was a new player way back in 2006, I hated playing with experienced players because they would zerg ahead and leave you to get lost and die. Waterworks was the worst offender for this, back in the day. This hasn't really changed, in that experienced players will want to run ahead while newer players spend time looking around. Heck, I joined up with a group for one of the new quests I hadn't run yet, and I hated that I couldn't take my time and explore things at my own pace, at least the first time through.

Instead, I would suggest the following:

LFM Panel
This should be reviewed to see if there is a way to make this more new player friendly, to help people find groups of like-minded people.

Tutorial Quests
Help new players with the learning curve by offering some in-game advice in a role-playing kind of fashion. In particular, add an optional tutorial quest when travelling from Korthos to the Harbor for the first time. This should be a ship-board quest where a guide gives advice on what to expect once they reach Stormreach, helpful tidbits for new players, etc. Of course, the quest should be fun, with perhaps a few encounters along the way, to mix in with advice. If done correctly, the advice would be provided in a story-like fashion. At the end of the journey, the guide suggests they ask for a particular NPC at the docks if they need any help.

Helpful NPCs
Add a NPC in the harbor, down by the docks, that the guide refers to in the tutorial quest, where additional advice can be given, people can ask questions, etc. The idea wouldn't be to give the advice on everything in DDO, but instead to answer some common questions they might have about the Harbor area, as well as some other game-play tips.

If the tutorial quest / helpful NPC idea is positively received, then additional, optional transition quests and NPC guides could be added when people transition from the Harbor to the Marketplace for the first time, or to one of the various Houses for the first time. I know there are NPC greeters to each house, but I don't think they're terribly helpful (other than to greet you). Obviously, these would all be optional that experienced players could simply bypass, but I would think this would help newer players transition better.

FYI, I found this thread only because of the link to it in the DDO Discussions forum.
__________________________________________________ ___________________________

I’m a 12 week’ish newbie. Some of you may recognize me from my incessant posts asking for help in understanding this game. I have been part of two recent threads on this topic that I can think of, probably more. Here they are.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...t-should-we-do
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ds-an-overhaul

My biggest problem was figuring out exactly what I was supposed to be doing after Korthos. That topic is covered in the second link that I posted. This needs desperate attention. The NPC helping you through the Marketplace quests was mentioned in the above thread and again here, and I think that is a very good idea. It took some serious dedication on my part to work through this and find my way forward. I estimate I have probably played 100-120 hours since I’ve started. In that time, I’ve conservatively spent 40 hours on this forum, first just searching past threads for knowledge, then later starting to post for help. I’ve also spent at least 20 hours on DDOwiki, probably more. Without either one of those, I would have probably walked away. There is a TON to learn here, and the game itself provides almost no guidance in learning it. Even once I learned to hit ‘P’ for the compendium, I struggled and STILL to this day struggle to figure out where to go next.

I said this in another thread, but this game gives the very distinct impression to new players that it has been abandoned. The always empty weapons broker in House D (where the NPC in Marketplace tells you to go for anything over 1500 gp) and the pathetic links at the top of this forum page. When is the last time you clicked on ‘The game’ up there and checked out the ‘Game Guides’. They are not even close to what is needed for a new player. I want to find out what I’m supposed to be doing in the Marketplace, and I get “Guide to the Eldritch Device”, I still don’t know what that is. I click on ‘News’ and then ‘events’, to see when this Night Revels thing is that everyone talks about. What do I see? The DDO Winter Games are starting in January 2014!! Really? That is just pathetic, and sends the worst possible message to a new player. The fact that it has been abandoned is quite telling.

I feel like the game is constantly trying to push me away and I have to fight it to a draw just to stick around. Also, there may not be much point in talking about how to attract and keep new players if the owners have decided that it is not cost effective to do so, and that their efforts are better spent in milking deep-pocketed vets with XP potions and Hearts of Wood and all of that reincarnation / power creep stuff, things that a newbie like me knows nothing about. This may be the best short-term way to keep the doors open, but it bodes very poorly for the future of the game. I hope that I’m wrong about this.

Please take my barely educated opinion with a huge grain of salt.

EDIT: I forgot to mention the inventory management system, which is universally loathed from what I've read on these forums. It is another major obstacle to keeping a newbie around. You throw a ton of loot at us, and then provide no way to keep that loot around (without buying very expensive inventory and bank slots). I finally figured out that I simply could not keep it all, and started selling all of my loot in the AH or at brokers, building up my plat to buy things that I could actually use. Getting loot from a quest and then just selling it all is not fun, but it's required. Thanks for the 50+ bastard sword, docent, sceptre, and shield drops for my rogue mechanic, along with ONE great crossbow drop in over 2 months!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 0ldschool

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ds-an-overhaul

My biggest problem was figuring out exactly what I was supposed to be doing after Korthos. That topic is covered in the second link that I posted. This needs desperate attention. The NPC helping you through the Marketplace quests was mentioned in the above thread and again here, and I think that is a very good idea. It took some serious dedication on my part to work through this and find my way forward. I estimate I have probably played 100-120 hours since I’ve started. In that time, I’ve conservatively spent 40 hours on this forum, first just searching past threads for knowledge, then later starting to post for help. I’ve also spent at least 20 hours on DDOwiki, probably more. Without either one of those, I would have probably walked away. There is a TON to learn here, and the game itself provides almost no guidance in learning it. Even once I learned to hit ‘P’ for the compendium, I struggled and STILL to this day struggle to figure out where to go next.

I said this in another thread, but this game gives the very distinct impression to new players that it has been abandoned. The always empty weapons broker in House D (where the NPC in Marketplace tells you to go for anything over 1500 gp) and the pathetic links at the top of this forum page. When is the last time you clicked on ‘The game’ up there and checked out the ‘Game Guides’. They are not even close to what is needed for a new player. I want to find out what I’m supposed to be doing in the Marketplace, and I get “Guide to the Eldritch Device”, I still don’t know what that is. I click on ‘News’ and then ‘events’, to see when this Night Revels thing is that everyone talks about. What do I see? The DDO Winter Games are starting in January 2014!! Really? That is just pathetic, and sends the worst possible message to a new player. The fact that it has been abandoned is quite telling.

I feel like the game is constantly trying to push me away and I have to fight it to a draw just to stick around. Also, there may not be much point in talking about how to attract and keep new players if the owners have decided that it is not cost effective to do so, and that their efforts are better spent in milking deep-pocketed vets with XP potions and Hearts of Wood and all of that reincarnation / power creep stuff, things that a newbie like me knows nothing about. This may be the best short-term way to keep the doors open, but it bodes very poorly for the future of the game. I hope that I’m wrong about this.

Please take my barely educated opinion with a huge grain of salt.

EDIT: I forgot to mention the inventory management system, which is universally loathed from what I've read on these forums. It is another major obstacle to keeping a newbie around. You throw a ton of loot at us, and then provide no way to keep that loot around (without buying very expensive inventory and bank slots). I finally figured out that I simply could not keep it all, and started selling all of my loot in the AH or at brokers, building up my plat to buy things that I could actually use. Getting loot from a quest and then just selling it all is not fun, but it's required. Thanks for the 50+ bastard sword, docent, sceptre, and shield drops for my rogue mechanic, along with ONE great crossbow drop in over 2 months!

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You are reflecting almost word for word ALL of the new players I talk to on Korthos and in the harbor. Tonight, these very topics came up as a matter of fact. Just think of how many layers NEVER come here. The numbers are staggering.

You are not the first one to say this, and it is a sentiment shared by people here on forums, but they wont speak up for fear of falling out of favor with staff. Thats legit, and a lot of you people know it.

Thank you for replying, It is YOU the new player that are MORE important than anyone else in this game. We need more new player, fact.

I think hand held quests on everything relevant to the game should have been included from day 1. Opt out of beginner quest mode from the beginning like Runescape has for veterans starting a new character.

A trace line option to the next quest would be helpful. Perhaps a form of cut-scene tutorial for leveling up on feat selection spending AP adding relevant ability points as a selection option at your relevant trainer.

Cut-scene tutorials for anything that could possible help along the way.

Free hearts of wood at NPC to correct build mistakes.

An easy to find continuously updated compendium of DDO information for players in a logical progression for new players and for general referencing afterwards for all players.
Include all the lore in there too in a separate section for referencing. Maps for referencing too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 0ldschool

FYI, I found this thread only because of the link to it in the DDO Discussions forum.
SNIP

Please take my barely educated opinion with a huge grain of salt.

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Hey there, Oldschool.

I'm Itchybeard, and I've been playing DDO a long time. I don't often post much, but your recent post compelled me to toss my 2 copper into the conversation. I understand your frustration, but I don't think your opinions are ill-founded or should be observed with a grain of salt.

1. Finding a "direction" is extremely difficult for most new players. When I started, I rather liked the idea of not having my hand held to and fro, but I can see how a lack of pointers/NPCs to guide you might be annoying. I don't think DDO was ever truly marketed to the masses, so perhaps the original game designers just assumed everyone would navigate their way through the dark.

2. DDO certainly has a steep learning curve. In some ways, I kind of enjoy multiple layers to dissect and manipulate. I may be an outlier on this point. From your perspective, requiring hundreds of hours on forums/ddowiki to get around seems like overkill. I'm 100% in favor of spending time on the wiki (and vids related to articles there), but absolutely NEEDING to spend time there is kinda silly, in my view. You should be able to reach the Harbor and simply continue adventuring. The wiki is an awesome resource I use daily, but I would hate to feel forced into using it just to survive.

3. Is the game pushing you away? Perhaps. The devs certainly have to market to an audience which will actually pay money for the product they provide... this is common sense. However, greater attention could certainly be given to the consistency with which new systems are explained to the novice. I wish there was a huge building somewhere with lights all around it with a neon sign pointing towards it... "Come here to learn about new stuff in DDO!" Perhaps the Hall of Heroes can serve this purpose. Maybe the devs can give us an 'arium' to which we can easily 'travel' from anywhere and learn both basic & advanced material.

In semi-conclusion, I may not be completely in your court when it comes to annoyances or frustrations regarding DDO. I don't really have to be; I can at least sympathize. To take it further, I can empathize by putting myself in your shoes and looking at the game the way you do (or might do). I can provide a tiny bit of my own knowledge, as well as offer what meager insights I've attained over the years.

Ask me anything you like.

I don't care what server you use (I'm on Ghallanda). I don't care when you play. I don't care what class/race you play. You are welcome to ask me any/all questions you like regarding DDO. Am I an expert? Certainly not. Do others know more than I do? Absolutely. Am I qualified to even offer advice? Probably. Whether or not I can actually help you can be learned in time. However, I do enjoy helping new players when I can. This is really the best I can do. I know you were not speaking to me personally, but maybe each one of us out here in DDO land who fancies themselves a "vet" can cultivate their own mentorship program with new people. Perhaps the key to solving the new-player retention issue is for each of us to step up and pull someone over and say...

"How can I help?"

Maybe this is too simplistic, but I'm willing to try. Let me know if you are interested, and we can exchange contact info. If not, no worries ^_^

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Itchybeard

"How can I help?"

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Not enough of that in todays player base.

This is cool, really. But it helps one individual. :( And doesn't offer SSG any suggestions for improving the new player experience. Don't take me out of context. ANY POSITIVE reply to this subject is spot on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Itchybeard

Hey there, Oldschool.

I'm Itchybeard, and I've been playing DDO a long time. I don't often post much, but your recent post compelled me to toss my 2 copper into the conversation. I understand your frustration, but I don't think your opinions are ill-founded or should be observed with a grain of salt.

1. Finding a "direction" is extremely difficult for most new players. When I started, I rather liked the idea of not having my hand held to and fro, but I can see how a lack of pointers/NPCs to guide you might be annoying. I don't think DDO was ever truly marketed to the masses, so perhaps the original game designers just assumed everyone would navigate their way through the dark.

2. DDO certainly has a steep learning curve. In some ways, I kind of enjoy multiple layers to dissect and manipulate. I may be an outlier on this point. From your perspective, requiring hundreds of hours on forums/ddowiki to get around seems like overkill. I'm 100% in favor of spending time on the wiki (and vids related to articles there), but absolutely NEEDING to spend time there is kinda silly, in my view. You should be able to reach the Harbor and simply continue adventuring. The wiki is an awesome resource I use daily, but I would hate to feel forced into using it just to survive.

3. Is the game pushing you away? Perhaps. The devs certainly have to market to an audience which will actually pay money for the product they provide... this is common sense. However, greater attention could certainly be given to the consistency with which new systems are explained to the novice. I wish there was a huge building somewhere with lights all around it with a neon sign pointing towards it... "Come here to learn about new stuff in DDO!" Perhaps the Hall of Heroes can serve this purpose. Maybe the devs can give us an 'arium' to which we can easily 'travel' from anywhere and learn both basic & advanced material.

In semi-conclusion, I may not be completely in your court when it comes to annoyances or frustrations regarding DDO. I don't really have to be; I can at least sympathize. To take it further, I can empathize by putting myself in your shoes and looking at the game the way you do (or might do). I can provide a tiny bit of my own knowledge, as well as offer what meager insights I've attained over the years.

Ask me anything you like.

I don't care what server you use (I'm on Ghallanda). I don't care when you play. I don't care what class/race you play. You are welcome to ask me any/all questions you like regarding DDO. Am I an expert? Certainly not. Do others know more than I do? Absolutely. Am I qualified to even offer advice? Probably. Whether or not I can actually help you can be learned in time. However, I do enjoy helping new players when I can. This is really the best I can do. I know you were not speaking to me personally, but maybe each one of us out here in DDO land who fancies themselves a "vet" can cultivate their own mentorship program with new people. Perhaps the key to solving the new-player retention issue is for each of us to step up and pull someone over and say...

"How can I help?"

Maybe this is too simplistic, but I'm willing to try. Let me know if you are interested, and we can exchange contact info. If not, no worries ^_^

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Thank you. I've said it before, but the best asset this game has may just be the vets on this board that have given me a tremendous amount of great advice, along with generous offers of their time and gear. The support given to me here has been very appreciated. But there are not thousands or even hundreds of posters here, and I don't see a lot of newbs like me looking for advice, which is ashame.

I want to be clear that I am NOT advocating for dumbing down the game. The steep learning curve is why I'm here. I feel like this game is a 1,000 layer onion and I'm peeling back a layer a week. Learning about what bonuses stack was a big challenge. What are Spell Saves? do they stack with my Staunch bracers? (Yes, even though they are both resistance bonuses) One week I took on Cannith crafting. The joy of finally stealthing Stealthy Repossession. Things I've barely scratched the surface on like Augments, or things I only hear mentioned that I know nothing about, like Greensteel, Slavers gear. Now waiting to find out what Mabar / Night Revels is like. I could go on and on, but my point is that this is all good stuff.

But without DDOwiki, I would know almost nothing about many of these complex game features. There is NO in-game guidance to help you through. To have something this layered and complex and offer no help understanding it is puzzling to say the least.

Here's a good question. Who maintains DDOwiki? Is it SSG? As a wiki, I'm guessing it's an independent entity. If so, then SSG is leaning very heavily on it to provide players with information that allows them play their game. It's practically the only users guide available for the game. What about in-game links to the relevant DDOwiki page? That would be a huge improvement. But SSG would then need to maintain the DDOwiki and make sure it is up to date. For example, the Crystal Cove loot is still out of date for many items. If a newbie does not know to use DDOwiki, or then have the patience to search it to answer their question, they are going to get frustrated.

Here's one of my ideas for Korthos

*thanks to the 3 players on G-Land that joined the lfm to take the screen shot today with my birthday cake djinn.

So what you see is an overlay box with a "twitch" type box inside it. I have zero clue how this would work, Im the idea guy, you coders figure it out. The concept came from the the DDO store overlay & functionality.


https://i.imgur.com/2DfkknV.jpg

I am stumped as to why SSG does not devote resources to new player retention. They do not even need to be creative about it—we have loaded up the forums with miles of threads giving indications (from vets) & feedback (from newbies). If there is anything that irks me, it is this utter neglect by them to make a red carpet at the door to new blood.

Through habit people become unaware of mediocrity around them—you forget how crummy & distasteful that waiting room was to some office once you have used it enough times. I get that. But I do not get how you can ignore such mediocrity when well-meaning folks constantly point it out & reveal its inadequacy.

Yes, without the DDO Wiki it would be a lot harder to learn the game for a new Player. For example the 'Stone of Change' doesn't have any recipe list within the game: http://ddowiki.com/page/Stone_of_Change_-_Recipes. Therefore unless somebody tells the newbie what ingredients it accepts they'd likely never know, just from playing the game, etc. Plus a some quests have complex mechanics.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 0ldschool

[...] But without DDOwiki, I would know almost nothing about many of these complex game features. There is NO in-game guidance to help you through. To have something this layered and complex and offer no help understanding it is puzzling to say the least.

Here's a good question. Who maintains DDOwiki? Is it SSG? As a wiki, I'm guessing it's an independent entity. ...

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The DDO Wiki; is not affiliated with SSG, its mostly maintained by small handful of volunteer DDO players, but anyone can edit the pages, and you don't even have to register an account to contribute there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lagin

[...] I streamed LTS and VoN 5/6 EE earlier this week for the 4 youngling's of our PnP group that Ive posted about trying to join us here. They saw a classic raid, how teamwork and tactics work, spell animations that blew them away, the traps, the deaths.

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Actually, in the weekly Epic Elite VON PUG Raids I join most weeks, some of the players remind me of the following: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj08Ni3tklw so yeah, it normally has female heroines dressed in armour, it's upbeat and vibrant. The guy that mostly posts the LFM is a real team player; is newbie friendly, and won't tolerate any unkind people in the Raid group. :-)

Breathing some life into Korthos and Harbor would help. Maybe a new specifically new players / characters module? Levels 2/4/6 ish with some decent progress rate. Lots of players unfortunately never get to see the better half of DDO, which is usually starting around mid levels, where enough char development is available and more interesting encounters start appearing.

The Harbor, Here we introduce links in the overlay as depicted. Why not in Korthos? It's the starter area, using a k.i.s.s. method. When player gravitate to levels 2 & up, they will be questioning weapon types, spells, etc.....
Why the djin? He transcends all of our content, in Eberron, Faerun and the upcoming Sharn expansion.

Thanks to the players on Cannith server. NOTE, there were players automatically approaching the djin while this was being done. (Im proving a point here)
https://i.imgur.com/x1iItCM.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Saekee

I am stumped as to why SSG does not devote resources to new player retention. They do not even need to be creative about it—we have loaded up the forums with miles of threads giving indications (from vets) & feedback (from newbies). If there is anything that irks me, it is this utter neglect by them to make a red carpet at the door to new blood.

Through habit people become unaware of mediocrity around them—you forget how crummy & distasteful that waiting room was to some office once you have used it enough times. I get that. But I do not get how you can ignore such mediocrity when well-meaning folks constantly point it out & reveal its inadequacy.

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They've probably decided it's not a good ROI for what they would have to do. It's pretty clear that SSG feels it's better for them to maximize what they can get from the current group of players than spend lots of money on people who may or may not stay around with such an old game.

Marketplace from Sarlona. Thank you for the screenshot participants.
At this point we say goodbye to Oramdur, and is replaced by house and area Red Names & Famous NPC's
As we progress through these areas, the video and tutorial content is tailored to specific crafting, gear sets, saga's, raids etc.

*sorry for typos in image, too many projects going on at once for this old man.:rolleyes:

https://i.imgur.com/9JdKmhi.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lagin

Up next, Marketplace from Sarlona. Posting shortly

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Has anyone typed up something for new players, a guide that tells you where to go and what you can do when you get off the boat in the Harbor? I've got half a mind to create a PDF with suggested quest sequences, embedded images showing where the bank, brokers, AH are, etc. and a brief description of how to use them, a description of how to use the Map and what the symbols on it mean, and Compendium knowledge. Then I would just park myself on the docks and broadcast messages to arriving players that I can help them out by emailing them the starter's guide, and maybe mail them some plat to get going. I'd be very surprised if no one in the history of DDO ever tried to work up a starter's Guide like this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 0ldschool

Has anyone typed up something for new players,

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Yes, and some of them are awesome, The forums have been changed a while ago, and the ease of access to that content got altered. The forum moderators have those things in their "to-do" list, and no set time for those upgrades were discussed. Understandable, as SSG took over (thank you btw) they have limited time to devote to certain things.

The idea here is NOT to make more written articles, lists or whatever.

Thats the problem. New players want it now, like we all did, video, links and streaming is the answer. Keep in mind other games have these things, and that makes any of our great work done by staff and PLAYERS seem inadequate by those standards.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lagin

Yes, and some of them are awesome, The forums have been changed a while ago, and the ease of access to that content got altered. The forum moderators have those things in their "to-do" list, and no set time for those upgrades were discussed. Understandable, as SSG took over (thank you btw) they have limited time to devote to certain things.

The idea here is NOT to make more written articles, lists or whatever.

Thats the problem. New players want it now, like we all did, video, links and streaming is the answer. Keep in mind other games have these things, and that makes any of our great work done by staff and PLAYERS seem inadequate by those standards.

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Point well taken. Sorry for sidetracking the discussion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 0ldschool

Point well taken. Sorry for sidetracking the discussion.

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I would love to see anything to help the new player. The point of this is to get as much feedback and ideas as we can. Sorry If I didnt convey that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 0ldschool

Has anyone typed up something for new players, a guide that tells you where to go and what you can do when you get off the boat in the Harbor? I've got half a mind to create a PDF with suggested quest sequences, embedded images showing where the bank, brokers, AH are, etc. and a brief description of how to use them, a description of how to use the Map and what the symbols on it mean, and Compendium knowledge. Then I would just park myself on the docks and broadcast messages to arriving players that I can help them out by emailing them the starter's guide, and maybe mail them some plat to get going. I'd be very surprised if no one in the history of DDO ever tried to work up a starter's Guide like this.

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axel did some youtube videos on this subject matter

Would a site/mobile application that guides the player through each area be easier. With links to ddowiki and videos from youtube and maybe some other useful info? So people can check this while playing the gaming and get some good information on things that they can do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by silisav

Would a site/mobile application that guides the player through each area be easier. With links to ddowiki and videos from youtube and maybe some other useful info? So people can check this while playing the gaming and get some good information on things that they can do.

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Axel did this on his youtube channel. I think your idea is great & it would be cheap to do.

Maybe we can convince Axel to build on his initial newbie series

Either way, the issue is that people will not know about it in-game

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Saekee

Axel did this on his youtube channel. I think your idea is great & it would be cheap to do.

Maybe we can convince Axel to build on his initial newbie series

Either way, the issue is that people will not know about it in-game

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I am up for doing a website that handles that. I work as a web developer anyway so I can do it as a small project on my free time. Depends on what we are gonna include, I would like to avoid a database so that it is easier to maintain.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ralmeth

LFM Panel
This should be reviewed to see if there is a way to make this more new player friendly, to help people find groups of like-minded people.

Tutorial Quests
Help new players with the learning curve by offering some in-game advice in a role-playing kind of fashion. In particular, add an optional tutorial quest when travelling from Korthos to the Harbor for the first time. This should be a ship-board quest where a guide gives advice on what to expect once they reach Stormreach, helpful tidbits for new players, etc. Of course, the quest should be fun, with perhaps a few encounters along the way, to mix in with advice. If done correctly, the advice would be provided in a story-like fashion. At the end of the journey, the guide suggests they ask for a particular NPC at the docks if they need any help.

Helpful NPCs
Add a NPC in the harbor, down by the docks, that the guide refers to in the tutorial quest, where additional advice can be given, people can ask questions, etc. The idea wouldn't be to give the advice on everything in DDO, but instead to answer some common questions they might have about the Harbor area, as well as some other game-play tips.

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Originally Posted by Renvar

We need to organize the 500 some quests into a cohesive set of story lines, using sagas

Create a Korthos saga.
Create a Harbor saga.
Create a WW-STK-Threnal saga.
Create a Necro 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 saga.
Create a shroud flaggers - Shroud - Hox, Vod, Devils of Amrath - ToD saga
Create a GH + Reavers Refuge + return to GH + FoT saga
Create a saga linking all the house J level 5-13 quests together.

Then, give the compendium a Sagas tab that shows the saga name, giver, and level range and, if you have the saga, a visual progression meter (like the cannith crafting level meter) and a (4/13) counter and what the completed quests are the "to be done" quests and the standard progression.

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I like both of these sets of ideas. I remember when I was new the 5 things I had the most trouble with or changed the game for me once I learned them were:

1) The big gates went places?! I think the first one I tried when I was new went to IQ and wouldn't let me use it with a little text on the screen so I didn't try the ones that went to Cerulean Hills or Marketplace for awhile thinking the Harbor was the entire hub of the city as it is in some RPGs. This is probably no longer an issue but it was a big step for me to leave the Harbor the first time and I sure wish there had been an NPC guide to indicate to me when and where to do so. Still when you are very new learning where to go and especially where to go next is anything but intuitive.

I also remember searching House Phiarlan for the entrance to the Necropolis expecting a BIG GATE and eventually finding *grumbles a lot of time later* a little road sign with the yellow swirl. Guide NPCs helping guide you from one set of adventures to the next and certainly from one level range to the next would have been incredibly helpful over the years.

2) In Game Mailbox Coming from single or two player RPGs with no need for inter-game mail between characters I had no idea it existed or really what that giant red lantern floaty thing was for ages. Korthos needs a mailbox and an NPC to talk about it. Not everyone comes to this game from MMOs. Maybe the mailbox could be broken down, accessible but empty on snowy side and in better repair & usable on sunny side to go along with the story.

3) Auction House Really just have the AH guy in the Harbor give more detailed information. No where does the AH NPC mention that you will loose a third of the sellout price to the AH. There is a posting fee but no listed selling fee as exists on the Shard exchange UI. If you are unfamiliar with auctions this selling fee comes as a nasty surprise the first time. This reminds me, maybe the NPCs that hand out bags should also mention where to buy better ones because I see the ones available at the vendors & regular quivers on the AH all the time for inflated prices and I know that is NOT helpful to retaining new players.

4) Hirelings I think I played this game for two or three years before I used a hireling for the first time. To be fair they are in Korthos but maybe there could be a tutorial quest where an NPC gives you a hireling contract and tells you how they work. Of course it would also be helpful if hireling AI wasn't so lobotomized. They really were smarter when I first started using them than they are now.

5) Enhancements and Action Points This last one has already been improved light years beyond what the game had when I was new. I think I was 12th level or so before I discovered enhancements even existed and it was not on my own. I specifically remember a vet that was guiding us through GH wilderness for the first time ever explaining them to me and telling us about the wiki too. Nowadays pointing out the drop down menu and the arrow on the enhancement screen to the far right for new players would probably be useful.

Another thing that would solve population issues is cross-server questing like in Wow, meaning lfm is unique and people from all servers can join the same quest. I am not sure however if it is worth the time/effort/money and even if the games old technology allows this.

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Originally Posted by silisav

I am up for doing a website that handles that. I work as a web developer anyway so I can do it as a small project on my free time. Depends on what we are gonna include, I would like to avoid a database so that it is easier to maintain.

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that is a kind offer. Mellicat, a former forumite here, had tried to set up a special new player page in the DDO wiki. I think there is where it would function best. She started it but was perhaps too am itious so it plopped. But if someone felt like taking it on, I think Shoe or someone else there could guide them. I do not know how to edit wikis although I have tried.

Well, if someone were to take this on, they ought to create a special thread here called, ‘help me create a New Player wiki page’ for ideas and links etc.

That said, there are many things that we are suggesting that the devs need to do. They are getting the paycheck

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Originally Posted by Saekee

That said, there are many things that we are suggesting that the devs need to do. They are getting the paycheck

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Awesome offer indeed. All of these external sources are fantastic, but the issue starts when a new player enters the game.

The player base can't change the source of the OP, I am still of the mindset popup videos, (short ones) Animated NPC's like the screenshots I posted are the answer.

Here's a simple thing to do to measure how much weight this thread should carry...... Go to any server, korthos, harbor, marketplace, and send a PM to a new player asking if they need help. Show them some stuff. Use a guest pass for something, even if they're lvl 1,2,3 etc... just let them tag along in a quest above their level to show them more than could experience at that time. Ask them pointed questions about any difficulties they have run into.

Most of the feedback you'll get is about the UI. Lack of game driven direction.

Look, we all have spent countless hours learning this game, I am NOT suggesting giving anyone an easy button to the HUGE learning curve we have. I am suggesting we give new payers a path that is easier than we all had with the use of the technology they see in other mmo's.

As I proposed, have interactive NPC's that are like the djin, a dragon, Harry, ANYTHING that draws attention to itself on a grand scale.

As I proved my point with the use of the birthday cake djin, new players came up to it and tried to interact with it. By not using the current form of a humanoid looking NPC and using the fantastic beings that we have on hand, we generate TONS of enthusiasm, and the desire to see more. Add overlays vs the tips that popup on right side of screen and I guarantee the new player will learn more from a 30 second video than text.

DDO really needs server wide channels for Advice, Trade, and General. In every MMO I try, when I get stuck, I ask questions in Advice. I monitor Advice and General chat, learning things from the back and forth between other players. The current DDO channel system prevents the vast bulk of helpful veterans from reaching new players and makes idle conversation almost impossible. On at least some servers, that creates the impression of a dead game. It also severely handicaps Guilds trying to recruit. This problem was fixed in LOTRO over three years ago.

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Originally Posted by Renvar

One of the biggest things, I think, is navigating the quest log and the adventure compendium.

I don't think we need a viewers box for raids in game. Twitch and videos work fine for that.

We need to organize the 500 some quests into a cohesive set of story lines, using sagas

Create a Korthos saga.
Create a Harbor saga.
Create a WW-STK-Threnal saga.
Create a Necro 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 saga.
Create a shroud flaggers - Shroud - Hox, Vod, Devils of Amrath - ToD saga
Create a GH + Reavers Refuge + return to GH + FoT saga
Create a saga linking all the house J level 5-13 quests together.

Then, give the compendium a Sagas tab that shows the saga name, giver, and level range and, if you have the saga, a visual progression meter (like the cannith crafting level meter) and a (4/13) counter and what the completed quests are the "to be done" quests and the standard progression.

That would be very helpful, imo.

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Sagas have such a potential to get people going in the game. I am continually amazed that they don't do just this and push new players right at the saga givers.

I'd also like some type of saga reward other than exp/renown that has staying power, like consumables (easy way: remnants combined with improved remnant vendor options).

(Some sagas should be all f2p. For those that aren't, have saga givers say "hey, you don't have access to all the areas you need to complete this task... here's where the store is.")

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Originally Posted by Annex

DDO really needs server wide channels for Advice, Trade, and General. In every MMO I try, when I get stuck, I ask questions in Advice. I monitor Advice and General chat, learning things from the back and forth between other players. The current DDO channel system prevents the vast bulk of helpful veterans from reaching new players and makes idle conversation almost impossible. On at least some servers, that creates the impression of a dead game. It also severely handicaps Guilds trying to recruit. This problem was fixed in LOTRO over three years ago.

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Thelanis is the worst for channel isolation.

When DDO first came out to the public it had a whole starter area (Now the backdrop of the Crystal Cove Event) that had Tutorial Quests specific to skills/learning how to do something.

Areas I remember...

1. Rogue Tutorial - Learned to pick locks, learned how to spot, search and disable traps
2. Fighting - Learned how to equip a weapon, swing and even tumble
3. Setting up Spells for classes that can switch spells
4. Buy a weapon - Yes we learned to buy weapons.

I truly believe having an area with tutorials for basic adventuring skills could go a long way in retention as the initial stumbling block is the learning curve.

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As far as the new and longer term players mixing, this is a tough area to work. The reason is the gap in gear and knowledge. Most when new and left to their own devices tend to look at everything - check out all the dark corners etc. But if they get into a group that is more for speed, they can miss many things that can help them as they start but after they have been in the game for awhile you have excess of and don't need.

Maybe the LFM needs a setting to indicate the mindset - like "Don't Blink" to "Wake me when you are done taking 10 searching this room" :)

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Originally Posted by Enoach

When DDO first came out to the public it had a whole starter area (Now the backdrop of the Crystal Cove Event) that had Tutorial Quests specific to skills/learning how to do something.

Areas I remember...

1. Rogue Tutorial - Learned to pick locks, learned how to spot, search and disable traps
2. Fighting - Learned how to equip a weapon, swing and even tumble
3. Setting up Spells for classes that can switch spells
4. Buy a weapon - Yes we learned to buy weapons.

I truly believe having an area with tutorials for basic adventuring skills could go a long way in retention as the initial stumbling block is the learning curve.

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That was before my time. I wonder why those things were removed.

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Originally Posted by Enoach

As far as the new and longer term players mixing, this is a tough area to work. The reason is the gap in gear and knowledge. Most when new and left to their own devices tend to look at everything - check out all the dark corners etc. But if they get into a group that is more for speed, they can miss many things that can help them as they start but after they have been in the game for awhile you have excess of and don't need.

Maybe the LFM needs a setting to indicate the mindset - like "Don't Blink" to "Wake me when you are done taking 10 searching this room" :)

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Oh Khyber, I assume any Heroic group posted on Hard, Normal, or Casual was made by a new player. All the veterans play in Reaper Mode with the occasional Elite. Sadly, the runs posted on Hard, Normal, or Casual rarely seem to get any members, even when something like, "I am a new player and need help", appears in the LFM. I hope I am wrong.

On numerous occasions I thought to stop what I was doing and join one of those low difficulty groups. Invariably, I turn away because I lack a character at the right level of decide I want to push my Avatar a little further in what time I have. DDO is such a strange group game in that respect, the way it spreads everyone out.

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Originally Posted by Saekee

I am stumped as to why SSG does not devote resources to new player retention.

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SSG doesn't even devote resources to OLD player-retention. I quite paying a sub over a over a bad experience with support; they couldn't even muster up so much as an apology. That is how few ****s they give.



That being said, there are loads of simple things they could do to aid new player retention.

*Update korthos items - the reward gear in korthos is WOEFULLY outdated.

*Speed up leveling a little - this was discussed earlier, but the game really doesn't start to get fun until mid-levels. At this point in the game's lifespan, there's really no good reason not to cut some XP from first-life early heroics and make the climb from 1-10 pretty quick. Figure, veteran players are TRing, so leave 2nd and 3rd lives alone, and people making alts are probably using iconic or veteran status.

*Pawn Brokers - honestly need to be removed entirely at this point. They were an early bandaid to deal with the lack of an auction house, but are confusing for new players.

*How about introducing a game guide system? Many other MMOs have them. Veteran players volunteer to show newbs the ropes. Give the veterans some shinys as rewards(cosmetics, pets, etc). Provide an item that "de-levels" a veteran player so they can run content with low-levels, they proved this was possible with the Rose Tinted Glasses. Just need to provide them for a few level ranges. Even better if they can make it so it down-powers your equipped gear so you aren't having to carry around a bunch of other stuff.

*Organize volunteers to host teaching raids - there's already guilds that do this just to be nice, but there's no good reason why the community managers can't organize volunteers to do it more often and for specific raids(chronoscope, comes to mind). Similar to the guide program, provide incentives.

It would also be nice if they could make the in-game support slightly less toxic, thats not vital for NEW players...

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Originally Posted by Annex

That was before my time. I wonder why those things were removed.

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Not removed, redone.

When Korthos was introduced, they "moved" the old training grounds and locked the doors.

The old training grounds can still be found though! They are part of Crystal Cove. The 3 doors along the dock (not the tavern) are where you would enter to do the different skills Enoach mentions. Maybe if they unlocked those doors you would still find those tutorials inside.

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Originally Posted by Hafeal

Not removed, redone.

When Korthos was introduced, they "moved" the old training grounds and locked the doors.

The old training grounds can still be found though! They are part of Crystal Cove. The 3 doors along the dock (not the tavern) are where you would enter to do the different skills Enoach mentions. Maybe if they unlocked those doors you would still find those tutorials inside.

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Probably broken in the current codebase, but it would be a handy thing to re-add. Drop the quests into Korthos village.

New player here and this thread caught my eye. I don't generally post much on forums but I do like to read them. I just started about a week ago, and while I'm probably not a 'typical' new player I thought I'd toss in my own thoughts up to now as a nooblet for what it's worth.

For starters, I'm an old lady who likes to take things slow and stop to smell the roses along the way and enjoy the journey itself, so maybe I'm not the right person to be giving opinions on this type of game where it seems everything is geared towards end game. I'm also kind of a loner and like to do things on my own most of the time, but I don't guess I'm the only one so maybe my thoughts will be useful in some small way since I assume SSG wouldn't have their feelings hurt if more people started playing. :)

My highest character so far is lvl 3, lol. I've spent a lot of time trying out different characters and trying to find that sweet spot on a character I'll enjoy the journey with. At least until I know more. After doing a lot of reading and watching youtube vids, I've decided that I'm not even going to worry about end game for now, and raids, and TRs, and equipment, and optimum this-and-that, etc. Too much hassle and a daunting prospect for someone like me who swore off multi-tasking and hurrying when I retired. I did find quite a few youtube vids though that were very helpful and didn't assume I know more than I do or assume I want to hurry to end game, and I appreciated finding those.

So that brings me to the first point I wanted to make. As a new player, I found it almost intimidating to realize that for someone like me, I would probably be faced with eventually being forced into all of that if I want to continue playing. From what I'm reading, it appears to be around lvl 10 (ish) that I may hit that wall. That may not be true but that's the impression I'm getting from all I've read so far. I don't generally enjoy raiding or min-maxing, or power gaming, etc. So I'm thinking that's one aspect of the new player experience that might account for some newer players not sticking with it, especially those who are like me. The prevailing attitude of vets in most games is "go play something else then if you don't like it." I understand the sentiment somewhat, but I don't think it's the company's goal to run off new players. If I weren't as stubborn as I am, I might have already bailed out and looked for something a little more casual-friendly on the surface. lol.

I found Korthos to be very enjoyable, and as I said I've played through it now about 20 times trying out different characters and builds, and just generally getting used to how to play. I'm not seeing a major lack there to be honest. But then I've played other mmos over the years so can't really say how it would be for someone with no mmo experience at all.

Once I got to the Harbor area with one character it did take a bit of running around checking things out to get a handle on what I should probably be doing, and tried out the Cerulean Wilderness as well as a couple town quests, all of which I've enjoyed. That's as far as I've gotten so far so the only thing I would add at this point is that there seems to be very little to indicate if I should or shouldn't try a quest at my level. I could be just overlooking something though. So much to see and learn, lol. But as someone else said, the general first impression was that this area was some kind of main hub and so presumably would be mixed levels. I did notice one quest giver had a note there about it being an extreme challenge so steered clear of that one. lol. Of course after digging around, I think maybe it's a low level area to begin with, but still not really sure, tbh.

So that's about it since my experience is so limited right now. I have noticed though, that however well-meaning folks are, it does seem that the overwhelming majority of advice to new players I've read is all given with the assumption that the new player wants to rush to end game. Everything is centered around that, and about preparing for that, and there's very little about actually enjoying the journey to get there. It seems to me that end game should be something for those who have already done it all and a good way to keep vets, not "the" game and everything before that is preparation. And from the company's point of view as well as the newbie's point of view, I would think that people enjoying the getting-there stages and not worrying about how it will affect their "end-game," or whether their character is going to be "gimped" etc, would be the preferred goal. There is a vast pool of non-hardcore gamers out there who would enjoy DDO if it weren't for the intimidation aspect, imo. Like I said, I'm stubborn but not everyone is. :)

With all that said, I have to say I'm very much enjoying my experience so far. This game has a lot to offer besides the end game and I hope to be here for a long time.

It was enjoyable to read your perspective as a new player. New player base is not the priority of SSG as many can attest to seeing numerous threads such as this over the years fall on deaf ears.
The onus has been left for the existing player base to help the new players period.

My advice is to enjoy your journey and take your time. Stick with pure builds as they are the easiest. Be careful of your Feat selections on level up.

If you ever need any help ask on the forums. There are a lot of generous people that will give their time to help you.

This is a great site for information https://ddowiki.com

For example> If you havent bought any new content here are the free to play quests only: https://ddowiki.com/page/Category:Free_to_Play_quests

All the best to you :)

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Originally Posted by GrannyNooblet

With all that said, I have to say I'm very much enjoying my experience so far. This game has a lot to offer besides the end game and I hope to be here for a long time.

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https://media.giphy.com/media/Y8ocCgwtdj29O/giphy.gif

Hey there! Welcome to the game. :)

Thanks for the welcome, guys.

Rather than derail this thread, I'll be making a post in the new player section today with a couple questions. :)