Martens Rebuild (Seeking constructive input)

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12-04-2013, 06:39 AM
Marten

Martens Rebuild (Seeking constructive input)

When I first built the current incarnation of Martens, the issue with the monks was their attack was too low for many Epic Quests. Times have changed and now so should Martens.

Below is Martens current build (with notes and questions I have in orange). Martens has served me well over the years and matched my play style, but now I am asking for your help in two phases.
1) How can I LR Martens current build to be better able to run EE quests with friends. I want to change focus from Fire stance to Wind stance and focus on Doublestike while keeping Overwhelming Critical. What would you change and why?
2) When I do finally TR Martens for his 3rd and final Monk life, what race should I consider while keeping in mind I want to stay with the Wind stance. Again, what would you change and why?

Let's keep it civil: here every opinion is welcome and valued. However, facts are facts, so if you see someone (me included) with a factual error please point this out.

Class: Monk (20) Epic (8)
Type: Light Shintao
Race: Half-Orc

[36] start+tome+lvl (geared/Sun unbuffed)
STR 20 +5 +7 (54) Buffed 62+ (change to 18 +5?)
DEX 15 +4 (26) (change to 13?)
CON 15 +3 (24) [666 HPs]
INT 6 +2 (8)
WIS 12 +4 (32) (change to 16 or 18 +4 +7?)
CHA 6 +4 (16)

(Note to self - Tomes return +1 at level 3, +2 at level 7, +3 at level 11, +4 at level 15, and +5 at level 19)
(Note to self - What can my starting Str be while keeping it a 23 base for OC and an even # with gear on?)
(Note to self - It seems my starting Dex can be 13 and then 17 by lvl 15 for Greater Two Weapon Fighting)
(Note to self - What can my starting Wis now be and have I over looked any stat needs that would break the build?)
(Note to self - When Lamannia is next up I need to run lots of tests)

Damage: 10[1d8]+59 19/20 x3 (with Power Attack active)
Attack: +63

DCs: (was not the focus of the build when firt made)
Stunning Fist 52
Kukan-Do 50
EiN 49
(With the above stat changes what would my new DCs be?)

Epic Destiny:

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/2350/3m88.jpg

Grandmaster of Flowers
Tier 1

Lilly Petal
A Dance of Flowers
Grandmaster's Wisdom
Tier 2

Hail of Blows
Grandmaster's Wisdom
Tier 3

Orchid Blossom
Grandmaster's Wisdom
Tier 4

Piercing Clarity
Grandmaster's Wisdom
Tier 5

Drifting Lotus
Dancing with Flames (I will have to replace this with T2 Running with Wind)
Grandmaster's Wisdom
Tier 6

Everything is Nothing Epic Moment

Twist of Fate:
T4 Sense Weakness
T2 Improved Power Attack
T1 Primal Scream

Feats:
1 Two Weapon Fighting
1 (monk) Toughness
2 (monk) Power Attack
3 (monk) Path of Harmonious Balance
3 Past Life: Monk
6 Cleave
6 (monk) Stunning Fist
9 Improved Two Weapon Fighting
12 Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
15 Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18 Great Cleave
Epic Feats
21 Improved Martial Arts
24 Overwhelming Critical
26 (ED) Toughness (Replace with Perfect Two Weapon Fighting for +5% Doublestike)
27 Blinding Speed (If I stay in Wind stance, is this still needed or would it be better to take Vorpal Strikes? If I take Vorpal Strikes, how effective is it in EE?)
28 (ED) Toughness (Replace with EDPL Doublestrike x3 Stance for an eventual +9% Doublestrike)

Enhancements:

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/5936/dy3z.jpg

(Note to self - I guess-a-mate when all is said and done that Doublestrike will be 36%. My math is as follows: Wind stance for 10%, Antipode for 6%, Hail of Blows for 3%, Running with Wind for 3%, Perfect Two Weapon Fighting for +5%, and EDPL Doublestrike x3 Stance for 9%. Am I missing anything or adding anything that doesn't stack?)

Gear:
Spider-spun Caparison (+3 Wis)
Epic Brawling Gloves (+6 Cha) (It seems that the only reason to keep this is the +4dmg and the slotted Cha for Kukon-Do, what if anything could replace it?)
Mithral Cloak of the Wolf (level 24)
Planar Focus of Prowess (+3 Str)
Deadly IX Goggles of Resist 9
Skirmisher's Circlet (Add Deathblock or another in store Gem such as +8 Cha?)
Epic Jidz-Tet'ka (+6 Dex, Exceptional Dex +1) (If going to Wind stance, what should I replace this with? How do I replace the Dex and 25% Healing Amp if replaced?)
Ogre Power +10 Boots of Seeking IX

I am very stubborn about these next four items as their bonus and damage seem impossible to replace for a monk, but I am open to suggestions
Encrusted Ring (Shocking Burst)
Knost's Belt
Kyosho's Ring (Holy Burst)
Shintao Cord

(Note to self - It seems that I need to try and find +10 Dex, Con, and Wis items, but what items and what slots?)
Is there a "must have" monk item that I have over-looked?

Main Wraps:
Antipode Slotted with Ruby of the Vampire Slayer
Thunder and Lightning Slotted with Ruby of Superior Shock (Epic atm but EE when I can find a pair and will add Ruby of Voltaic Shock)
Ivy Wraps (level 23) (for "stay alive" mode)
Epic Wraps of Endless Light
Grave Wrappings

Clickies:
Bottomless Flask of Rum
Morah's Belt - (Belt) Jump (CL:15, 3/3 Charges), Constitution +6, Tumble +15, Thief Acrobat Set Bonus [ML:18, BTC, Exclusive]
Draconic Necklace - (Necklace) Greater Heroism (CL:11, 1/1) Constitution +6, Purple Dragon Knight [ML:18, BtC]
Planar Gird
Nyoko's Necklace - (Necklace) Invisibility (CL:15, 3/3)
Robe of Shadow - Level 20 5 x 14 minute Nightshield
2 x Double Positive Greensteel Shuriken 1 x Resurrection
2 x Double Air Greensteel Shuriken 3 x Haste
2 x Visor of the Flesh Render Guards 1 x Death Ward (7 mins)
2 x Madstone Boots 1 x Madstone
Phiarlan's Pendant of Time
Harper Pin, Lesser

Special Items:
Dragontouched Vestments (with 10% and 20% Healing Amp)
Purple Dragon Gauntlets (30% Healing Amp)
Pale Lavender Ioun Stone (Upgraded)
Mantle of the Worldshaper
Epic Phiarlan Mirror Cloak
Jeweled Cloak (level 23)
Scarab of Spell Absorption (Disposable)
Silver Flame Talisman (Fully Upgraded)
Trinket of Electrical Absorption, 33%
Bottle of Air
Clever +8 Goggles (for Int runes)

Potions:
Essences of Fury
Essences of Desire
Essences of Despair
Oils of Incandescence
Draughts of Hearty Apple Cider
Potions of Greater Heroism (Level 20)
Potions of Haste (Level 20)
Gloomy Potions of Restoration
Gloomy Potions of Death Ward
Potions of Cure Serious Wounds
Potions of Curse Removal
Potions of Resist Fire, Acid, Electricity, Cold and Sonic 30 (for emergencies)
*I don't have Silver Flame Pots because I have so far refused to buy the first 3 Necro APs. Maybe someday ;)

Skills:
Back in the day I put most points in Balance and Jump. Now with ED I have innate knockdown protection so what skills should a +6 Int HOrk take?

Final questions
1) I have never focused on UMD A) would it even be useful to a HOrc with a starting Int of 6 (eventually 8) to try and how high could I get it B) what race for my next life would have the best UMD without destroying my main focus?
2) It appears to me that with the new system that race means less that it use to. Is this a correct PoV, and if so what race would you suggest for a final life and why?
3) It appears to me that with the new system that being a pure monk means less that it use to since there is no Capstone now. Is this a correct PoV, and if so what what class(es) and at what level(s) would you change for a final build and why?

I thank everyone in advance for your help and look forward to this discussion.

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/1235/0bso.jpg
12-04-2013, 08:08 AM
inspiredunease

Taking some points at random:

Stance: The monk unarmed meta has changed. Earth stance is now the place to be. By all means, stack as much doublestrike as you can on gear and via EDPLs, but run earth stance for:

55 PRR (15 from grand master of forms, 25 from enhancements and 15 from standing in stone). That's a lot of damage reduction which you get practically for free.
+ 1 crit multipler (I cannot stress how huge this is when stacked with overwhelming crit).
Violence begets violence (up to 5 stacking crit range)

All you're really getting out of wind is +2 reflex saves, and 10% double strike. The alacrity doesn't stack with either blinding speed or a 15% speed item. I'm not saying the double strike is not nice, but I don't think it compares favourably to the above. If you're running unarmed, you're running shintao, and if you're running shintao you're in earth stance. You simply give up too much otherwise.

Stats: I started my last 36 point horc monk with 18/14/14/10/16/6. I think if I were doing the same build over now I would go 18/13/13/6/18/6. All level ups in wisdom (as you have a +5 tome for strength). This qualifies you for overwhelming crit while allowing you to max wisdom for DCs. Speaking of which...

Tactics: Tactics are now beast. You say you won't give up Kyosho's or encrusted. You should. You really should, because you need a +10 shattering dun'robar ring. You need it now. With your past lives and gear you should be able to easily get 75+ DC quivering palm. This is an instakill, which on 60k+ HP trash is better DPS than absolutely anything else you can do. Go get one now, I'll wait (you could also look for some +14 shatter wraps, but good luck with that). You should be trying everything else to up your tactics DCs. Horc is actually pretty good for QP DCs as they get can get a +3 shatter DC from racial enhancements. Which is what I built this: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ome-kinda-Fyng around. Bladeforged are also great, they get +3 tactics DC plus the lovely reconstruct SLA. WF get the tactics, but not the SLA :( Dwarf is still a strong choice. My personal preference when I finish the TRs I'm doing on Fyng for more tactics DC is to go BF, as it sounds fun. You will also want to twist in legendary tactics from legendary dreadnought, and finally take the tactician ED feat (+2 tactics). You can also gain 1 net tactic DC by taking two fighter levels (+3 tactics DC, but you lose 1 DC from dropping two levels of monk and 1 DC for the 2 wisdom from shintao capstone). Taking two fighter does also let you take quite a lot of other good stuff from the kensei tree.

Gear: Other than the shatter ring, I run in either spider spun for + 3 insightful wisdom on trash, or black dragonscale robe for the occasional red-named (don't really need +ki or DCs). Black dragon helm with +3 ins con or str is nice. Getting a 15% alacrity item is a no-brainer in my mind, but it's up to you (goatskin boots or jorgundal's collar are both pretty good). Getting +10 or 11 wisdom is a must, getting it with deadly 10 or resistance 10 is yummy (I have 10 wis 10 res goggles). I would replace jizz bracers with either convalescent of parrying (if you have some or can find a pair), or just use bracers of the sun soul if you can't (anything with stacking saves is nice). Fill out the rest as you like. If you intend to run the Wheloon EEs try and stack fort as I think you need something ridiculous like 180% to be crit/sneak immune and the assassins in there hurt.

Skills: I did max UMD on Fyng, and I did like it. It required gear swaps to pull off res and heal scrolls, but it's more than possible. I never put points in jump any more, with a level 15 jump clicky it's just not necessary. Getting points in heal is nice as it gives you better self-healing with cocoon, and balance (it's still useful as you won't always be running in GMoF, blitzing on Fyng I was getting 5k+ crits which is lots of fun) and spot can always take up any leftover points you might have.

I don't know how much use any of that was, but I'll try and answer any other questions you have. I think I based my first monk life on your horc strength monk build :D
12-04-2013, 08:00 PM
Marten

Very Informative

Quote:

Originally Posted by inspiredunease

I think I based my first monk life on your horc strength monk build :D

Good to hear, I hope you enjoyed your first life as much as I have enjoyed Martens.

You have definitely taken this in a direction I wasn't expecting, not that it's bad or unwelcome. It sounds as if you enjoy your build and back it up with facts, there is nothing better. It may not be my play style simply because whenever I am in Earth stance I will like I am moving in slow motion, that may be just the ADHD in me ;) But, I will say this since you make such a passionate cause, during one of my 3 Epic TRs I will try your build. Since I don't have some of the gear this build seems to really need to blossom I may not get the full experience, but I will at least try.

Again, thank you for your post. It was very informative and I will be sure to post here or PM you if I have questions later.
12-04-2013, 09:27 PM
Munkenmo

google "munkenmo woodfist" It won't help you a heck of a lot, but you'll get a good idea on gearset, & DC's.

I'll try add to what the previous poster said a tad.

In epic elites, damage has inflated substantially when compared to the old Epic system. Now days expect to be hit for up to 400 damage (before reduction), more on crits & if you don't have 140%+ fort you will be critted.

The reason earthstance has come so far ahead is primarily due it's PRR and Con boosts, the fact that our best defensive stance also happens to have a nice offensive property really makes it hard to pass up.
Couple that with changes made during the enhancement pass tying shintao monks into earth since it has a 15PRR bonus, helpless damage reduction, and crit threat range only available for people in earth stance. (Personally I only get the PRR and spend elsewhere in shintao)

Consider it like this:
45prr : (earth 15prr, shintao 15prr, 15 gmof standing with stone)
0prr: any other stance.
it's likely you'll have planar conflux (15prr) for a while, and even a PRR augment crystal (16prr)
SO
earth stance = 76PRR (~34% damage reduction)
other stance = 31PRR (~17% damage reduction)

The inflated damage I mentioned is a big reason why a lot of monks (myself included) have moved on from our beloved tod rings (trust me it was begrudgingly). When you're getting hit for 200-300 damage a swing, if a stun or a quivering palm doesn't land, or there's a group of mobs, your faced with 6 seconds of standing toe to toe with the enemy, relying on shadowfade + dodge + displacement to live. During that time, someone in earth stance has twice the damage reduction you do.
Since standing toe to toe with the opposition beating them down is no longer very viable, DPS has been left a bit on the backburner.

DC's nowdays are the primary focus for most monks (you should be able to aim for about 80+ stunning fist / 75+ quivering palm, Theory Crafting Here)
12-04-2013, 09:34 PM
Xorlandu

If EE is your main goal you want 11 ap in ninja spy for shadow veil, 25% incorp is that big of a deal. Gear wise either getting greensteel displacement clickies or the ability to scroll them for 50% concealment is very helpful. People I have seen on my server have a big misconception that damage is all important in EE when the main concern you need in your mind is survival. Shadow veil, displacement/blur, fair amount of dodge and Earth stance prr go a long way in that department.

Most of the points in the mystic tree I don't see being very useful either imo. Core abilities don't deal enough damage (lot of enemies immune/resistant to fire + low dc), the +3 finishing move dc's wont increase most of your finishers cause you're light path, the -ki gen on lightning the candle makes it more annoying than it's worth if you're not going to be in fire stance anymore.

People will sit there and say that ninja spy isn't worth going with handwraps but you can easily get enough points in the tree to get no mercy with only 2-3 points being wasted on non handwrap things (2 ap being the first 2 core abilities to get to shadow veil). No Mercy+ Sense Weakness is a lot of damage against stunned enemies when it is very easy to get SF DC above a 70 w/o a lot of effort.
12-05-2013, 05:12 AM
inspiredunease

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xorlandu

Most of the points in the mystic tree I don't see being very useful either imo.

I don't bother with Henshin mystic much either, but way of the patient tortoise is the most point efficient 20 hit points you can get anywhere, in any tree. It's always worth grabbing that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xorlandu

People will sit there and say that ninja spy isn't worth going with handwraps but you can easily get enough points in the tree to get no mercy with only 2-3 points being wasted on non handwrap things (2 ap being the first 2 core abilities to get to shadow veil). No Mercy+ Sense Weakness is a lot of damage against stunned enemies when it is very easy to get SF DC above a 70 w/o a lot of effort.

No mercy and sense weakness do not stack unfortunately. I do however agree with you that a reasonable investment in Ninja is worthwhile, especially on a pure monk, as you will (just) have the AP to afford it. Bear in mind that acrobatic is bugged and doesn't provide more than 2% dodge (or it didn't last time I checked), so this would be my spend (if you take dark philosophy, which I still think you should from pure DPS perspective):

Core 1 - 1 ap
Wave of despair - 2 ap
Sneak attack 1 - 2 ap
Acrobatic 2 - 2 ap
core 2 - 1 ap
sneak attack 2 - 2 ap
unbalancing strike - 2 ap
Agility 3 - 3 ap
Core 3 - 1 ap
Sneak attack training 3 - 2 ap
Wisdom 1 - 2 ap
Sneak attack 4 - 2 ap
Wisdom 2 - 2 ap
---
24 ap

Wave of despair is great. I also like impending doom, but 24 ap in the tree is already a lot to spend when you will want to be putting 40ish in Shintao, 3 in Henshin and almost certainly some racial points. APs are tight yo! EDIT: Unbalancing strike automatically adds the sneak attack bonus, and 4d6 ain't nuthin' to be sniffed at.
12-05-2013, 11:14 AM
Marten

First Draft of Martens in Earth stance

Based on your and fTdOmen's advice I am trying to flesh this build out.

So far what I have is:

Class: Monk (20) Epic (8)
Type: Light Shintao
Race: Half-Orc

Martens (No Gear & Unbuffed)
Level 28 Lawful Neutral Half-Orc Male
(20 Monk / 8 Epic)
Hit Points: 356

BAB: 15/15/20/25/25
Fortitude: 18
Reflex: 19
Will: 24

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (28)
Strength 18 23
Dexterity 13 18
Constitution 13 16
Intelligence 6 8
Wisdom 18 36
Charisma 6 10

Feats:
1 Cleave
1 (monk) Power Attack
2 (monk) Stunning Fist
3 (monk) Path of Harmonious Balance
3 Past Life: Monk
6 Great Cleave
6 (monk) Deflect Arrows
9 Two Weapon Fighting
12 Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
15 Improved Two Weapon Fighting
18 Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Epic:
21 Vorpal Strikes
24 Overwhelming Critical
26 (ED) Perfect TWF
27 Improved Martial Arts
28 (ED) Tactician

Epic Destiny:
Grand Master of Flowers
http://ddodestiny.info/#d/grandmaste...q3,r2,t,u,z,bb

Tier 1
Lilly Petal
Perfect Balance (1)
A Dance of Flowers (3)
Grandmaster's Wisdom

Tier 2
Hail of Blows
Grandmaster's Wisdom

Tier 3
Orchid Blossom
Grandmaster's Wisdom

Tier 4
Standing with Stone (3)
Piercing Clarity (2)
Grandmaster's Wisdom

Tier 5
Drifting Lotus

Tier 6
A Scattering of Petals
Everything is Nothing Epic Moment

Twists:
(t4) Sense Weakness [FOTW]
(t2) Improved Power Attack [LD]
(t1) Legendary Tactics [LD]

Enhancements:

Quote:

Originally Posted by inspiredunease

Horc is actually pretty good for QP DCs as they get can get a +3 shatter DC from racial enhancements.

You're referring to Mighty Sundering? For +3 to Sunder DC's

Code:

Enhancement: Half-Orc - Orcish Fury (Rank 1) Enhancement: Half-Orc - Mighty Sundering (Rank 3) Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Riddle of Fire (Rank 1) Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Way of the Patient Tortoise (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 3) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Unbalancing Strike (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 3) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Wisdom (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Wisdom (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Bastion of Purity (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Protection from Tainted Creatures (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Hand (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Argent Fist (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Touch of the Void Dragon (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - To Seek Perfection (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Reed in the Wind (Rank 3) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 3) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Smite Tainted Creature (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Skin (Rank 3) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Fists of Iron (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Conditioning (Rank 3) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Jade Strike (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Dismissing Strike (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Constitution (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Tomb of Jade (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Instinctive Defense (Rank 3) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Wisdom (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Kukan-Do (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Violence Begets Violence (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Meditation of War (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Empty Hand Mastery (Rank 1)

Skills:

Code:

Starting Feat/Enhancement Base Skills Modified Skills Skills (Level 1) (Level 28) Balance 2 29 Bluff -2 8 Concentration 5 40 Diplomacy -2 8 Disable Device n/a n/a Haggle -2 8 Heal 4 19 Hide 2 12 Intimidate -2 8 Jump 4 17 Listen 4 19 Move Silently 2 12 Open Lock n/a n/a Perform n/a n/a Repair -2 7 Search -2 7 Spellcraft -2 7 Spot 4 19 Swim 4 14 Tumble n/a n/a Use Magic Device 0 19

I am still having a hard time see how Use Magic Device at 19 helps me even if I was able to find every other UMD item to wear.

!! Re-gearing is going to be a PITA !!
First on the list is -
+10 shattering dun'robar ring or +14 shatter wraps

Credits:
Beyond all the good advice I am getting here, I have also reviewed these sources:

Munkenmo Woodfist
Pure Monk
Some Kinda Fyng
Many many pages from DDOWiki
DDODestiny Builder
Dungeons and Dragons Online Character Planner (Home Page) (DDO Forums Discussion)
12-05-2013, 12:46 PM
Xorlandu

Could of swore no mercy + sense weakness stacked, my bad if otherwise :(. All my monks have been playing around with quarterstaves so haven't had much reason to go into ninja other than shadow veil lately.

Mystic training doesn't add to SF or QP dc's last I recall it only adds to finishing moves like dark X dark etc.

As far as the low hp, gatta get every hp item you can get your hands on pretty much. 45 hp greensteel item ( I prefer smoke II cause it gives the hp, perma blur and displacement clickies), vitality, false life and as many con bonuses you can get (+7/8/10 enhancement, +2/3 insightful, +1 exceptional).

For vorpal fists it doesn't really do enough anymore imo. Enemy HP keeps getting higher while the enemy still has to be under 1k hp to vorpal with it. It ends up being the feat adds on average 5 damage per hit (5% chance to do 100 damage when the vorpal wont kill) and lets you bypass slashing dr with handwraps. While the vorpal fists damage will average out to more than IMA damage when crits aren't calculated, IMA damage is increased on crits. I personally would use blinding speed, IMA and OC but only because I dont have a 14/15% speed item I deem worthwhile (only one I would really use is goatskin boots and I can't get a good set of those to save my life). If I had it I would use IMA, OC and vorpal.
12-05-2013, 01:20 PM
Munkenmo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marten

Based on your and fTdOmen's advice I am trying to flesh this build out. The first issue I am running into with the above stats is that the tomes don't come back quick enough to qualify for all of the TWF line in time. The issue comes at level 15. This is when I need to add Improved Two Weapon Fighting but the +4 from my tome at level 15 is after the fact. I may have to go 18/14/12/6/18/6 and deal with any odd # in Dex and Con later.

The +4 tome kicks in at the start of the leveling process. If you start with 13 base dex you'll be able to pick up ITWF with your level 15 feat.
You'll notice I've got 12base dex on munkenmo, I'm relying on the +5 to kick in at 19, when i take itwf and gtwf at 20 with my bonus fighter feats.

Quote:

Hit Points: 356 (This worries me, I will have to see what it is with gear, and try to find tome upgrades)

Wouldn't worry about hitpoints too much, They inflate with epic levels. false life items now reach +50, you can get +40 vitality bonuses... I rarely spend more than 1-4 points in con now.

Quote:

6 (monk) Deflect Arrows (*Removed Toughness to add Deflect Arrows, was suggested by someone else. Good or bad advice for current EE quests. I am seeing a lot more arrows than before but my HPs are hurting already)

Fantastic advice imo.

Quote:

28 (ED) Toughness (Replace with EDPL Doublestrike x3 Stance for an eventual +9% Doublestrike)
1) Until the cap is changed to 30, does this not leave me without a slot for ED Past-life making my EDPL grind pointless until then?

The epic pastlives are free. The way the toggles work is they're auto granted, but you can only have one per ED sphere active at a time. In your shoes I'd pick up the +2 tactics feat.

Quote:

Questions:

2) Just how effective is Vorpal Fists in EE? Would it be better to have Blinding Speed at level 27 and move Improved Martial Arts to 21?

I prefer Vorpal fists to IMA.
IMA = extra 1d8 (assuming you pick up empty handed mastery from shintao)(~4.5 per swing) It'll be slightly more depending on your crit profile.
Vorpal fists = ~5 damage per swing (thanks to the vorpal proc of 100) + it gives you the ability to bypass slashing DR.

I'm going to start giving up blinding speed, I'd rather drink pots or use clickies than spend a feat on haste.

Quote:

Final questions

Quote:

1) I have never focused on UMD A) would it even be useful to a HOrc with a starting Int of 6 (eventually 8) to try and how high could I get it B) what race for my next life would have the best UMD without destroying my main focus?
2) It appears to me that with the new system that race means less that it use to. Is this a correct PoV, and if so what race would you suggest for a final life and why?
3) It appears to me that with the new system that being a pure monk means less that it use to since there is no Capstone now. Is this a correct PoV, and if so what what class(es) and at what level(s) would you change for a final build and why?

1. I've always focused on UMD so i'm biased; It's always useful, (I've got 3 arti lives and completionist [passive +6 umd]) I carry scrolls of true seeing, heal, resurrect, teleport, ice storm, GH. If you're interested in sacrificing as little as possible for umd, I'd go human. The extra skill point per level and the feat come in very handy.

2. Some races have done better than others. Helf and Horc both took hits imo. Races like Human, Elf & halfling have done better, Dwarf & Drow kinda unchanged. My final life I've gone bladeforged, the reconstruct SLA is amazing healing for 25sp a pop, With very little investment I'm able to heal myself ~30 times per shrine for 500hit points per cast.

3. There are still capstones, However I feel the'yre not worth spending 40 points per tree to unlock. (ie. you'll find the old monk capstone in henshin mystic, but there's only 3 abilities in that tree I'd even like to have on an unarmed monk) A capstone costs you atleast 41/80AP, if you stop at tier 5, you can free up 10ap to go spend on abilities you want vs filler for a capstone.

For fleshy monks now my go to splits are 16/2fighter/2divine. This still lets me keep quivering palm, for 12AP(slightly more than the filler you spend on a capstone) 2 fighter adds +3 tactics, hasteboost and +1 actionboost (the tactics really only make up what you lose by splashing 2fighter, but 6 hastesboosts & 2 feats is nice :D).
2 divine is so I can pick up the feat empower heal. This works with rejuvination cocoon (primal avatar ability), combined they're be your go to form of healing the moment you can twist it.
Personally I prefer 2druid, (spell rams might) (9ap gets 9hp, 15 pos spell power, stacking +6seeker, and a clicky (5min cooldown) that reduces all physical damage by 40% for 8 seconds)
others say 2fvs, +3 saves (4ap unlocks divine might)
others say 2cleric (4ap unlocks divine might, another 4ap unlocks wand & scroll mastery)

For a bladeforged
16monk/2fighter/2wizard
2 fighter again is for the tactics / hasteboost.
2 wizard is for the bonus feat mental toughness, and the autogranted feat Magical training (combined 225sp, +6% chance to crit reconstruct)
Eldritch knight is nifty too: 9ap unlocks (1% double strike, 10% more AC [it's a filler, nifty in heroic /EH though), 10hp, 10prr) It also gives a cleave, but that costs precious reconstruct SP.
12-05-2013, 01:38 PM
moo_cow

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xorlandu

Could of swore no mercy + sense weakness stacked, my bad if otherwise :(.

They do stack.
12-05-2013, 01:53 PM
Marten

Good to know!

Quote:

Originally Posted by fTdOmen

The +4 tome kicks in at the start of the leveling process. If you start with 13 base dex you'll be able to pick up ITWF with your level 15 feat.
You'll notice I've got 12base dex on munkenmo, I'm relying on the +5 to kick in at 19, when i take itwf and gtwf at 20 with my bonus fighter feats.

I will trust you here and move it back to 13 again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fTdOmen

Btw the epic pastlives are free. The way the toggles work is they're auto granted, but you can only have one per ED sphere active at a time.

Good to know!

Quote:

Originally Posted by fTdOmen

In your shoes I'd pick up legendary tactics.

Now you have me confused! Are you referring to the ED Feat Tactician (which I will take at 28) or the Twist Legendary Tactics (that I have planned for my 3rd twist) or are you referring to an ED PL Stance that I am not seeing at DDOWiki... atm I am planning on taking Doublestrike Stance.
12-05-2013, 02:18 PM
Munkenmo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marten

I will trust you here and move it back to 13 again.

There's 2 ways around it anyway btw:

You can feat swap, you can LR. If I'm wrong I'll pay for either.
12-05-2013, 02:46 PM
inspiredunease

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marten

You're referring to Mighty Sundering? For +3 to Sunder DC's

Yes, I've confirmed it affecting QP DCs on live.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marten

Enhancement: Half-Orc - Orcish Fury (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Half-Orc - Mighty Sundering (Rank 3)

This is the smallest number of AP you can spend racially to get a tactics boost to QP. It doesn't affect SF, but naturally your SF DC is higher anyway due to the class base.

Quote:

Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Riddle of Fire (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Way of the Patient Tortoise (Rank 1)

Beautiful use of AP; 3 for 20 HP and concentration boost

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marten

Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Unbalancing Strike (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 3)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Wisdom (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Wisdom (Rank 1)

Acrobatic is fixed? I thought it still only granted +2% dodge max at rank 2?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marten

Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Bastion of Purity (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Protection from Tainted Creatures (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Hand (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Argent Fist (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Touch of the Void Dragon (Rank 1)
Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - To Seek Perfection (Rank 1)

I have to confess, I've not been a pure monk since just after the enhancement pass, and I was only briefly at 25 with my pure 20 monk very shortly before I TRed into the 16/2/2 build so I've not played that much with the capstone, but the 3% hp, 3% damage reduction from being able to take meditation of war is a pretty nice survivability increase. Void dragon's 3 minutes worth of +2 DC, +54 hp, + 2 saves. There are a lot of good splashes for monks, it's easy enough to weigh the benefits up, but 15 monk I think is the minimum, in order to be able to get QP. Anything less than that and it's not really a monk build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marten

Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Reed in the Wind (Rank 3)

I've not really bothered with this, as it's easy enough to reach the dodge cap with ridiculous 10% items dropping. I also think I would find difficulty fitting this in with my rotation. Perfectly willing to concede I could be missing something here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marten

Is Mystic Training (Rank 3) helping me where I need it (QP) or is it just SF and I should reinvest the points in Conditioning (Rank 3)?

Does nuffing for QP. You're going light, so DCs to finishers are essentially irrelevant. Unless you wanted someone to fail against your remove curse effect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marten

I am still having a hard time see how Use Magic Device at 19 helps me even if I was able to find every other UMD item to wear.

UMD 19 (base) + 6 cha (requires swap) + 6 cha skills (GS) + 3 flameward (+2 for epic) +1 tophat (+2 for epic hat/spyglass) +2 luck + 4 GH (+1 completionist) (+1 spider hat) = 41 (47). Ok yet? Mostly useful for versatility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marten

Epic:
21 Improved Martial Arts
24 Overwhelming Critical
26 (ED) Perfect TWF
27 Blinding Speed
28 (ED) Tactician

I dropped blinding speed after getting a +14% alacrity bonus item. I would definitely be trying to fit Vorpal Strikes in that feat list.

SORT OF EDIT: Just saw question on epic tactics. Take both. Don't think there's an EDPL that grants tactics boost, sadly, would be another nice option.
12-05-2013, 08:17 PM
Marten

Testing build on Lamannia

Quote:

Originally Posted by fTdOmen

There's 2 ways around it anyway btw:

You can feat swap, you can LR. If I'm wrong I'll pay for either.

While I can't currently copy Martens from Sarlona to Lamannia as the tool is broken ATM, I did start a test character and at level 15 the Character Sheet still shows 16 Dex, but the good news is that in the background it must think its 17 as it does allow ITWF to be taken. Once you update your level you then see 17 Dex.

Since I don't have a +5 tome on Lamannia (nor access to any of my good gear) I can't make an exact match to the build so I had to fudge on Con to add 1 to Str, but I can get close enough for some testing. Everything seems to be holding up smoothly.
12-07-2013, 09:10 AM
Marten

After testing moved to Sarlona

After spending about a day rebuilding Martens on Lamannia (as close as I could) and running tests, I was impressed enough to go live. I had to make some final tweaks on live, so I thought it deserved an update. All stats are at level 20.

Code:

Class: Monk (20) Type: Light Shintao Race: Half-Orc (Start) (Lvl 20 (Lvl 20 no gear, geared ED, Enh & ED or Enh) Earth stance) Str 18 23 30 Dex 13 17 22 Con 13 16 26 Int 6 8 8 Wis 18 27 44 Cha 6 10 10

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7498/m3y8.jpg

In the above image I have also highlighted my combat spam in Red (clicking left to right), stuns in Green, QP in Orange, EiN in Yellow (clicking right to left), and defense in Purple.

Code:

DCs: QP = 49 SF = 56 Kukan-Do = 49

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/2852/xks3.jpg

Feats:

Code:

1 Cleave 1 (monk) Power Attack 2 (monk) Stunning Fist 3 (monk) Path of Harmonious Balance 3 Past Life: Monk 6 Great Cleave 6 (monk) Deflect Arrows 9 Two Weapon Fighting 12 Improved Critical: Bludgeoning 15 Improved Two Weapon Fighting 18 Greater Two Weapon Fighting

Epic Destiny:
Grand Master of Flowers

Code:

Tier 1 Lilly Petal Enlightenment (1) A Dance of Flowers (3) Grandmaster's Wisdom Tier 2 Hail of Blows Grandmaster's Wisdom Tier 3 Orchid Blossom Grandmaster's Wisdom Tier 4 Standing with Stone (3) Piercing Clarity (2) Grandmaster's Wisdom Tier 5 Drifting Lotus Tier 6 A Scattering of Petals Everything is Nothing Epic Moment Twists: (t4) Sense Weakness [FOTW] (t2) Improved Power Attack [LD] (t1) Legendary Tactics [LD]

http://ddodestiny.info/#d/grandmaste...q3,r2,t,u,z,bb

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/5390/3zi6.jpg

Enhancements:

Code:

Enhancement: Half-Orc - Orcish Fury (Rank 1) Enhancement: Half-Orc - Mighty Sundering (Rank 3) Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Riddle of Fire (Rank 1) Enhancement: Henshin Mystic (Mnk) - Way of the Patient Tortoise (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Ninja Training (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Shadow Veil (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Acrobatic (Rank 2) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Unbalancing Strike (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Agility (Rank 2) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Flash Bang (Rank 3) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Wisdom (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Sneak Attack Training (Rank 1) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - No Mercy (Rank 3) Enhancement: Ninja Spy (Mnk) - Wisdom (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Bastion of Purity (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Protection from Tainted Creatures (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Hand (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Argent Fist (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Touch of the Void Dragon (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - To Seek Perfection (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Deft Strikes (Rank 3) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Smite Tainted Creature (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Iron Skin (Rank 3) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Fists of Iron (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Conditioning (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Jade Strike (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Dismissing Strike (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Wisdom (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Tomb of Jade (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Instinctive Defense (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Wisdom (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Kukan-Do (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Violence Begets Violence (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Meditation of War (Rank 1) Enhancement: Shintao (Mnk) - Empty Hand Mastery (Rank 1)

http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/5995/i8vd.jpg

I will post my thoughts as I level and once I recap.

ATM my first impressions are:
1) I lost half of my To-Hit and Attack!
2) OMG I feel like a snail!
3) Killing EH mobs solo with one punch, is sweat!
4) The Ninja Spy stuff is fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by inspiredunease

I dropped blinding speed after getting a +14% alacrity bonus item. I would definitely be trying to fit Vorpal Strikes in that feat list.

Where did you find a Speed XIV item? Best I have seen is Speed X.

Also you mentioned a Shatter XIV wraps... are these XIV items a flook that won't happen again or just really rare? Best Shatter item I have seen is IV.
12-09-2013, 06:23 AM
inspiredunease

Speed XV is only on named items I think, either:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Goatskin_Boots_(Level_28)

or:

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Jorgund...lar_(Level_25) (I only have the EH version of this, hence 14%)

From wiki:

Shattering (Suffix) - Sundering: On hit: -1 penalty to Fortitude saves for 6 seconds; stacks 5 times. Effect can occur every 3 seconds.
I-V: Increases Sunder DC by twice the Sundering level.
VI-VIII: Increases Sunder DC by 5 + Sundering level
Old Shatter +2 to +10 remain

As you can see from above +13s should be the highest possible, but masterful craftsmanship theoretically (as in win-the-lottery theoretically) allows for Shatter IX, allowing +14s. I personally haven't seen any and I was scanning both the AH and SAH after U19 came out every few days. I have a set of plain shatter VIIs and I did see VIIIs for about 1000 shards buyout a couple of months ago. Haven't been playing much recently, so the market may have been flooded by now for all I know, but it's pretty rare as far as I can tell. FTD probably has two or three sets though :P
12-16-2013, 08:28 PM
nikos1313

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marten

Feats:
1 Two Weapon Fighting
1 (monk) Toughness
2 (monk) Power Attack
3 (monk) Path of Harmonious Balance
3 Past Life: Monk
6 Cleave
6 (monk) Stunning Fist
9 Improved Two Weapon Fighting
12 Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
15 Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18 Great Cleave
Epic Feats
21 Improved Martial Arts
24 Overwhelming Critical
26 (ED) Toughness (Replace with Perfect Two Weapon Fighting for +5% Doublestike)
27 Blinding Speed (If I stay in Wind stance, is this still needed or would it be better to take Vorpal Strikes? If I take Vorpal Strikes, how effective is it in EE?)
28 (ED) Toughness (Replace with EDPL Doublestrike x3 Stance for an eventual +9% Doublestrike)

am i an idiot, or there is smthn wrong with your feats? as a lvl 20/8 monk horc u should have total of 15 feats, right? (7 Common + 3 Epic/Common + 2 Epic Destiny + 3 Monk)

Sry if im wrong, im half asleep here, and my brain is about to explode from this try to find a nice build!
12-16-2013, 10:34 PM
Munkenmo

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikos1313

Sry if im wrong, im half asleep here, and my brain is about to explode from this try to find a nice build!

He counted the monk philosophy feat, most people don't, but it is technically a 4th monk feat slot.

ie. At level 3 monk, you have to choose either light or dark path.
12-17-2013, 06:53 AM
nikos1313

Quote:

Originally Posted by fTdOmen

He counted the monk philosophy feat, most people don't, but it is technically a 4th monk feat slot.

ie. At level 3 monk, you have to choose either light or dark path.

oh right, ty
12-19-2013, 06:57 AM
Marten

Recapped Today

So it took me about 12 days. I took a few days off and frankly I am not one that grinds lives, so I am not as fast as others, but I thought I would share the new stats, tweaks, and thoughts.

@Lvl 28 with Gear and in GM Earth Stance (No Buffs)
Str 38
Dex 25
Con 30
Int 10 (I was able to get a +4 tome for Int added)
Wis 52
Cha 10

Damage is 8[1D8] +42
To Hit is +55

DCs: (Unbuffed and in GM Mountain Stance, unless otherwise noted)
QP = 70 (Sunder VI wraps + Skirmisher's Circlet)
SF = 70 (Antipode + Skirmisher's Circlet)
EiN = 61 (GM Ocean Stance) *when I use this it is typically 64 as I use Touch of Void Dragon and have ship buffs.
Kukan-Do = 55

Epic Feats:
21 Vorpal Strikes
24 Overwhelming Critical
26 (ED) Tactician (Decided to add before Perfect TWF to help in EE better/sooner)
27 Blinding Speed (Final build with +8 Str Goat Skin Boots will have Improved Martial Arts)
28 (ED) Perfect TWF

I didn't have to make any changes to my Epic Destiny tree from above

I did have to tweak my Enhancements some to even out my STR. To do this I dropped Unbalancing strike, but for points requirements I moved Fists of Iron from Shintao tree to the Ninja Spy tree, and then added Orcish Strength under my Race Enhancements.

I made some gear changes. While this may not be ideal, it is what I was able to acquire while releveling.
Skirmisher's Circlet
Deadly IX Goggles of Resistance +9
Wise +10 Necklace of Accuracy IX
Planar Focus of Prowess +3 Ins Str
Spider-spun Caparison +3 Ins Wis
Adamantine Cloak of the Wolf
Dexterous +10 Bracers of Protection +9
Health +10 Belt of False Life +45
Kyosho's Ring
Encrusted Ring
Epic Charged Gauntlets
Ogre Power +10 Boots of Seeking IX

Special notes:
Until the pendulum swings back the other way to raids/red names beat downs, I think I will stick with this build. Being able to QP many types of mobs in EE quests is not only handy, it's addictive.

It was suggested to me to go back to using Tunnel Vision rather than Improved Power Attack & use Rage pots for better DPS. This is a valid suggestion & I may at some point, but right now I am not a fan of yet one more thing to click and timer worries. Others may want to do this from the start.

The defense and survivability of this build is top notch for a Pure Class. Current PRR is 70 which means that 32.84% of damage is blocked. My AC is 91 and currently my Dodge is at 17%.

I will start my next Epic TR grind when the children go back to school, so until then... stay safe and happy DDOing!
12-19-2013, 12:10 PM
Munkenmo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marten

It was suggested to me to go back to using Tunnel Vision rather than Improved Power Attack & use Rage pots for better DPS. This is a valid suggestion & I may at some point, but right now I am not a fan of yet one more thing to click and timer worries. Others may want to do this from the start.

That was me :D

I love clicky based combat though, and am bladeforged, so feel free to take the suggestion with a grain of salt.

I also noticed you were using a hireling last night, have you tried running with rejuvination coccon yet? I'm not sure if you're aware or not, but you no longer need a class based SP bar. If you slot spell points, you'll have an SP bar. Giving up improved power attack / tunnel vision is definitely worth it for the self healing.
12-19-2013, 08:50 PM
Marten

I kept thinking the name looked familiar

Quote:

Originally Posted by fTdOmen

That was me :D

I love clicky based combat though, and am bladeforged, so feel free to take the suggestion with a grain of salt.

I also noticed you were using a hireling last night, have you tried running with rejuvination coccon yet? I'm not sure if you're aware or not, but you no longer need a class based SP bar. If you slot spell points, you'll have an SP bar. Giving up improved power attack / tunnel vision is definitely worth it for the self healing.

I kept thinking the name looked familiar, sorry the name didn't click for me last night. I had been grinding all day to get that last 1.3 mil exp and PoP was the next to last quest I needed to prep for my next Epic TR. I stopped using voice a while back when I was in a lot of pain (not everyone on the server knew what I was going through so to them I just sounded like a jerk) and haven't started reusing it. My hands and wrists were hurting and I was a bit grumpy so I talked a guildie who wanted to be in bed to help get PoP out of the way with hirelings... so not really the best time to meet me in game, lol. Sorry if I seemed short, I was just very tired. I hope we can run again under better conditions.

I was not aware of the changes to rejuvenation cocoon, I will have to look into that during my next grind :)

Any ways, before I logged I did Epic TR, popped a 50% exp pot and went back to get the 4 sagas. Three were Hard level and one was Normal, but it still gave me all of level 20 + half of 21, so when I come back I have at least a bit of a head start.