Easiest entry into epic elite?

Say you were going to play a character with mostly eveningstar commendation gear and cannith challenge gear limited to tier 1 twists.

Given that situation what (if any) would be the most helpful (able to carry some weight) in epic elite?

warforged shiradi sorc
warforged shiradi archmage
favored soul 18/fighter 2 str based LD
cleric 18/fighter 2 str based LD
cleric 18/monk 2 wisdom based (stunning fist) GMOF or LD
fighter defender tactics LD (2H vs shield option)
paladin defender LD (2H vs shield option)
wisdom based monk (stunning fist) GMOF or LD
warforged juggernaut (16a/2p/2m str based) LD

Or is there something even better?

Id say pure Cleric with commendation gear and a couple of other niceys (forgotten light, impulse ward) is a great way into EEs ( this is how my Cleric is)

Whilst many on here say you can run EE without a healer, this doesnt represent the main player base, who need one.


Ive yet to be refused entry into EE because "we dont need a healer"

Shiradi sorc or shiradi archmage, whatever you prefer. The sorc does tend to burn sp quicker due to loss of mm slas but can pump out more damage and also gain knockdown immunity/wind dance

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Originally Posted by kanbeki

Shiradi sorc or shiradi archmage, whatever you prefer. The sorc does tend to burn sp quicker due to loss of mm slas but can pump out more damage and also gain knockdown immunity/wind dance

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knockdown immunity requires Air savant right? If you're DC's for evo aren't high enouhg on a minimally geared first lifer don't a lot of the SLAs (And air savant dps spells) in general reflex saveable? if something makes a reflex save on a zappy spell, will the shiradu procs still go off? and at full damage?

perhaps a different savant would be better.

Depends.
If you want to get into almost every group doing EE - then sth with cleric or fvs - ofc as long as u can dps and heal in one moment.
Never too much healers on EE.
And you dont really need super uber gear to heal.

If u want dps Id say:
Shiradi Sorc or GMoF Monk with good EIN DC.

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Originally Posted by jakeelala

knockdown immunity requires Air savant right? If you're DC's for evo aren't high enouhg on a minimally geared first lifer don't a lot of the SLAs (And air savant dps spells) in general reflex saveable? if something makes a reflex save on a zappy spell, will the shiradu procs still go off? and at full damage?

perhaps a different savant would be better.

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While this is true it doesn't hurt to fire them off when you have a chance, honestly a shiradi mage of either flavor should be trying to cast missles/ice storm as much as possible and go light on spells with saves

Healing is always the easiest to build/gear for and the hardest to execute. EE is no exception.

Arcane DPS is incredibly easy because they have so many no-save spells in that category, but people generally expect a wizard at least to hold and wail everything, which between saves and spell pen is quite difficult. Going Shiradi pushes this slider even further towards easy (though not necessarily more) DPS and away from hold/wail ability, which if you can manage others' expectations is great.

Melee DPS requires a lot more gear and build to get near the ceiling, but people generally expect nothing from melee DPS because they have no way of measuring any particular individual melee's DPS output. For you I would recommend a human 20 fighter THF Stalwart Defender. You'll have HP, PRR, heal amp, potentially some AC, and everyone knows THF is the best DPS (even though in truth you would do considerably more as a TWF).

Trying to fulfill multiple roles (healing and melee, for instance) is just begging to fail. The damage output on EE is such that you will never make a Concentration check, and unlike in easier content your Aura is not enough to keep people up. Just hang back and play healer whack-a-mole. It's boring and unglamorous, but it's more effective than fooling around with your 100 DPS or your useless Cometfalls and Greater Commands.

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Originally Posted by Ryan220

Id say pure Cleric with commendation gear and a couple of other niceys (forgotten light, impulse ward) is a great way into EEs ( this is how my Cleric is)

Whilst many on here say you can run EE without a healer, this doesnt represent the main player base, who need one.


Ive yet to be refused entry into EE because "we dont need a healer"

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My cleric been declined from groups because "we already have a healer."

All I can say to that is they must be used to grouping with some lame clerics if they think all they can do is heal.

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Originally Posted by mobrien316

My cleric been declined from groups because "we already have a healer."

All I can say to that is they must be used to grouping with some lame clerics if they think all they can do is heal.

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I agree, on EH multiple Clerics casting Implosion, Destrution, BB can be great b ut we are talking Epic Elite here.

Unless they have multiple past lives theres no point. SR and DC are challenging - one Cleric is enough to heal EE quests

I dont even bother trying to do anything other than heal in EE - my first life Cleric cant break through SR so I dont even try.

I know the limitation of my Cleric well enough to know when Im wasting SP.

Damage comes in so thick and fast on EE sometimes that all I want to be doing is healing anyway. Im not so good that I can concentrate on multiple roles in EE anyway - Im sure the group will be appreciative of my 100% healing that leads to completion.

They'll be less impressed if I cause a wipe through wasting time and SP on Instas and CC that are never going to land.

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Originally Posted by Ryan220

I agree, on EH multiple Clerics casting Implosion, Destrution, BB can be great b ut we are talking Epic Elite here.

Unless they have multiple past lives theres no point. SR and DC are challenging - one Cleric is enough to heal EE quests

I dont even bother trying to do anything other than heal in EE - my first life Cleric cant break through SR so I dont even try.

I know the limitation of my Cleric well enough to know when Im wasting SP.

Damage comes in so thick and fast on EE sometimes that all I want to be doing is healing anyway. Im not so good that I can concentrate on multiple roles in EE anyway - Im sure the group will be appreciative of my 100% healing that leads to completion.

They'll be less impressed if I cause a wipe through wasting time and SP on Instas and CC that are never going to land.

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My cleric is on his fifth life and can do more than just heal, even in epic elite. But I understand your point. There is a big difference between an undergeared first-life cleric and one with good gear, multiple past lives, and multiple epic destinies.

Too often, though, I encounter people who are unaware of the difference. To them, cleric = healer, and they think more than one "healer" in the party will equal a lack of DPS.

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Originally Posted by maddong

Say you were going to play a character with mostly eveningstar commendation gear and cannith challenge gear limited to tier 1 twists.

Given that situation what (if any) would be the most helpful (able to carry some weight) in epic elite?

warforged shiradi sorc
warforged shiradi archmage
favored soul 18/fighter 2 str based LD
cleric 18/fighter 2 str based LD
cleric 18/monk 2 wisdom based (stunning fist) GMOF or LD
fighter defender tactics LD (2H vs shield option)
paladin defender LD (2H vs shield option)
wisdom based monk (stunning fist) GMOF or LD
warforged juggernaut (16a/2p/2m str based) LD

Or is there something even better?

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1. Spellsinger Bard with 2 Rogue Levels and Dragonmark of chestblessing.
Fascinate/Dance/Buffs/Traps/Mana Regen/DPS/Chestblessing for better loots....
Never rejected from any party I have seen.

2. Artificer. Traps/Deadly Weapons. nuff said..

Some sort of AA in shiradi destiny that hides in the back and CC's mobs, manyshots when off timer, melees with a couple of oatblades when necessary lol....... Max Healing Springs for party heals, fun times!

Of course there is the more complex monkchers they are viable but may require more gear.

My spellsinger performs well in EE without being overly geared (they are in gear that was high-end at the 20 cap but hasn't been updated much since and is of comparable quality to the EN Gianthold drops).

First life, optimized toward personal melee DPS, and raids in Draconic for the burst AoE damage which is very useful in both FoT and CITW. I led the gamewide first EE FoT (on the test server) with this character, although they did have the highest /deathcount in the raid.

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Originally Posted by maddong

Say you were going to play a character with mostly eveningstar commendation gear and cannith challenge gear limited to tier 1 twists.

Given that situation what (if any) would be the most helpful (able to carry some weight) in epic elite?

warforged shiradi sorc
warforged shiradi archmage
favored soul 18/fighter 2 str based LD
cleric 18/fighter 2 str based LD
cleric 18/monk 2 wisdom based (stunning fist) GMOF or LD
fighter defender tactics LD (2H vs shield option)
paladin defender LD (2H vs shield option)
wisdom based monk (stunning fist) GMOF or LD
warforged juggernaut (16a/2p/2m str based) LD

Or is there something even better?

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The three FOTMs are shiradi caster, monkcher and juggernaut. Of the three, shiradi is easily the least variable in terms of how much difference gear makes in DPS. Monkchers and juggs do have higher DPS ceilings, but are harder to play and gear. These are all very self-sufficient builds, but shiradis are easily the most survivable of the three due to being ranged all the time and quickened reconstruct. (Juggs have reconstruct but need to go into the fray, vice versa with monkchers).

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Originally Posted by mobrien316

All I can say to that is they must be used to grouping with some lame clerics if they think all they can do is heal.

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+1

Last life I had the pleasure of running with two clerics on a substantial stretch of my tr pug train. These guys were incredibly laid back, fun, and potent. They frequently led the kill count, healed anyone and everyone that needed it, and were always positive and fun even when the run wasn't going as efficiently as possible. They never listed BYOH or any other exclusionary requirement and even though my toons are totally self sufficient, always tossed heals my way even when I did something stupid.

Although not all groups were ideal, we always had lots of laughs.

Unfortunately, they did not tr and I did. Now I'm back in the land of pugs that invlolve people that take this game way too seriously, (byoh, know it, no noobz, I will lose my patience if anyone makes the quest take 30 seconds longer than it should) and people that seem like they're intentionally trying to screw things up as much as possible. (hi, wut hous? share plz, omg why did that trap kill me, where is everyone?)

Roll a good healbot.

It's an awful existence but it will get you into groups.

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Originally Posted by sirgog

First life, optimized toward personal melee DPS, and raids in Draconic for the burst AoE damage which is very useful in both FoT and CITW.

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Curious, but what elemental specialization did you choose with your bard and why?

to the OP:

Clonk or Wizard.
EIN VS CC. they are both usefull in EE. almost a must in every EE.
i think those are the easiest ways to get into EE, get ready to get nagged on the clonk for being busy killing though.

I personally love pure WF Arti in Shiradi for EE. The problem is that they are hard to play effectively at high level (player skill required, not hard to gear) so they get a bad reputation as insta-neg-10s. You have to accept that you're not the optimal choice for any one role. However, with a skilled player, an arti is highly valuable regardless of party composition (extra healing, extra CC, extra damage, even a surprising amount of tankiness). That flexibility is particularly useful to me since I do pug/shortman EEs all the time.

With moderate gear, I think you'll be able to solo EEs on a first or second life character. I'm actually building a 2nd life pure arti to test this theory. I've already soloed quite a few EEs with my ~5th life arti, but he recently got TRed again. I can let you know how that turns out on the 2nd-lifer in a month or so.

Destiny abilities:
Basically you have to play it depending on what the situation calls for. Shiradi gives great CC ability--use constantly. Rejuvenation Coccoon (tier 1) from Primal Avatar can help you save your healer or tank. Energy Burst (tier 4) from Draconic gives some on-demand burst damage. Unearthly Reactions (tier 1) from Magister adds extra survivability.

Build choices:
Build for high damage mitigation (max dodge (25%), insightful reflexes, permablur (high road bracers are great), ghostly, displacement clickies, and lots of lv 20 buffs through wands). I also prefer the sustainable damage from xbow over spell damage (it's too expensive, and artis do not make good DC casters).

Playstyle choices:
You will have high DPS against groups of enemies (proper positioning and IPS) and yet you can still drop back to heal/rez or kite a long train of enemies while the party recovers. The tricky part is learning how to effectively switch tactics mid-encounter. Do you keep kiting EE enemies or stand your ground so the melees can help kill them? Do you raise the cleric or keep shooting? Do you use a displacement clicky now or hit yourself with a repair scroll first? When do you CC the fighters and when do you CC the casters?

TL;DR
Basically, don't discount Arti. No flashy instant room-clears, no insane single-hit numbers, limited burst damage, but they'll be hanging out with the cockroaches after the nuclear apocalypse wipes out everything else.

Bard is easy, provided there isn't one in the group. They still have that "buff-and-pike" reputation all over, so make sure you buff and then you are free to do whatever else you want, if it's melee, heals, CC, archery, you can really do almost any role besides spell DPS and tanking hits is difficult because bards don't naturally get much to help them out there (making you rely a lot on gear and specialization, one of which you don't want). Devotion gear and/or UMD gear is generally something you'll want, and whatever other role(s) you want to take will require their own gear.

Arti is similar, as long as you're making an effort to DPS and you buff and disable traps as asked you rarely see problems. You'll probably want UMD gear, a good crossbow+runearm, basic survivability gear and appropriate spell power gear, ex. repair or force.

Healer is not that gear dependent. Just the basic survivability gear that any character should have and devotion gear and you're all set to heal. Of course most other roles take gear, melee will probably make you run a lot more defensive stuff, you'll have to set quicken on for a lot of your spells, and you'll be losing a swing or two of DPS every time you need to heal someone. Offensive casting is hard due to needing gear/past lives to get DC's and spell pen high enough. My favored soul archer is working pretty well, it's not gear intensive but archery does cut deep into your build options, taking up most of your feats, forcing investment into Dex and Str, and locking your race into elf/half-elf.

I haven't liked melee and as such I haven't built very effective ones. I like ranged better due to not having to stress as much about defense. I wouldn't recommend it, but that might also be because I just suck there.

Shiradi casters are easy as a warforged. Find a place for resonance, impulse, repair and a little defense stuff and you're basically set for gear lol.

Warforged shiradi sorcerer..signed with both hands and feet!

All other options are good but not easy.