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How difficult is this class to play for someone who is used to playing barbarians and fighters? I like the +2 damage past life thing, and was very much interested in the class. However, I keep reading that to play one well, you have to play it like you're playing a fighting game with tons of button pressing. Is this the case, or is auto attacking with occasional button pushes for certain abilities an option on this class?
Play a monk if other melee is so ungodly boring that you can't stand it. If you like auto attacking, monk is not for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Varashad
You will need to grow more fingers. And get two keyboards. Probably another mouse too. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Varashad
Nah, it's not so hard. Hotkey setup is paramount to playing a monk. Once you find the combinations that work for you, finger memory will eventually take over.
It does take some time to get used to. Your abilities/moves are impacted by the stance your monk is in. Certain benefits to the stance you take depending on what you are up against. Once you pick the stance for the quest (or certain fight in the quest) you need to use the right hot key set-up; watch your ki generation; learn to appreciate the cool down periods for the specific moves; and learn to know when to use a certain combination, as well as what combination results in what end move. Hardly ever just hitting one button. More likely to be going from stun, to void strike, to something else. It keeps you active for sure. It really just takes some time to get used to. (I ran a barbarian before I tr'd him into a monk. A little confused at first, but now it is second nature.) It is not rocket science, but can be a tiny bit overwhelming at first.
People on the forums like to exaggerate. Monks aren't significantly harder than playing a barb or fighter. Monks have a lot of OPTIONS but when fighting anything there is usually only one or two good ones. Expect to use about 1-5 buttons frequently ( Every 1-2 seconds ). You'll use more on occasion, but those would be to keep up buffs and not something you need to mash for dps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Varashad
First, you will need to find a secluded meadow, a sunny hill or a grassy knoll (watch for snipers) upon which to meditate your choices grasshopper --> when a butterfly lands on your knee, speak to it with through the breaths of your eyes and it will summon a great eagle, which will then...;)
Seriously, monks are fun to play and not at all that diffucult to adjust playstyle. I tr'd my kensai khop fighter into a pure monk and the transition was easy and very fun. I tr'd him into a kensai monk (also fun to play) and I'm about to tr again (monkish build ofc) :)
Using hotkeys for attacks and a mouse with buttons on the side help alot; it's easy to learn the combos for attacks, takes a little time but not as hard as oh say...grinding 5 lds :(
BTW the 1st level passive past life monk feat gives you +1 to dmg rolls not +2, the 3rd level feat increase your unarmed damage by one step higher than normal on the unarmed combat chart and gives you +2 to concentration and you can enter an evasive trance once per rest (you enter evasion for a short time) - this last ability is so UBER and OP - I never use it on my tr'd monk since you get evasion at level 2 (though I do take the feat for the dmg).
Long story short - do it! take the plunge I think you'll enjoy a monk life.
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this post, especially the first paragraph, in no way reflect the well-rested and non-caffeine hyped opionions of the poster when said poster has not been playing too much ddo. Poster is not responsible for the experiences of players who do not like playing monk builds or for those who are currently attempting to breathe through their eyes to communicate with butterflies.
You don't HAVE to button mash. Some builds benefit more than others but if your intention is to pick up a past life feat, I wouldn't sweat it. Monks rock through early and mid level quests and are relatively easy to gear...especially if you are not doing epics.
Monks aren't hard to play. It takes a little practice to learn how to set up finishers correctly but that's about it. You'll be pressing more buttons than on a barb or fighter for sure but it's not that difficult. you'll love the speed though and the survivability, in fact I'm so addicted to that stuff that I can hardly play any other class anymore.
Mostly I'm hesitant to drop the 995(or is it 895?) TP on a class I might despise playing. It sounds like a fun class and it looks fun, I just don't like hitting a ton of buttons. I heard that on Lammania everything costs 1 TP but only works on that server. Could I go there and play around with Monk, or do I have to wait until Turbine decides to go activate U12?
I think they've got it active for U11.1Quote:
Originally Posted by Varashad
Honestly, it's a lot like playing a caster except in melee. And you don't actually have to use all of your abilities, you can use some of them if you wish.
Light Monk Finishers aren't really useful outside of parties, and even then the Water-Light-Water is the more useful of your options as long as you're partying with casters.
Dark Monk Finishers are rarely useful, aside from the one that increases the negative damage that enemies take. But considering that requires Dark-Dark-Dark, it'll be awhile before you meet an enemy that lives long enough to take that much damage.
Neutral Monk finishers aren't that useful until you get your second tier of elements from taking Adept of <Element>. And even then they're best used sparingly.
You'll actually be using your elemental strikes for their damage moreso than anything. It's not as complex as it seems.
I would definitely recommend getting it. You get so much from Monk that it actually feels rewarding to level it up. Instead of Fighter where all you get is some boring BAB and passive boosts to damage, you get new feats or updated feats almost every level, and they always seem to benefit you.
Since no ones mentioned this, Turbine finds a way to somehow break monks every single update. By break I dont mean game balance nerfs, I mean actual bugs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Varashad
Yes, this is bad, though they're fixing some of the handwrap bugs in U11.1Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyrn
Or HOPEFULLY fixing them.
Still, Monk is a blast to play.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastianosmith
I've managed to add in a trackball for my elbow too. Don't ask, it's complicated.
I pretty much only use it in epics, really only use earth finisher and occasionally shining star anywhere else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zachski
And yes you could try it out right now on lamma
Splashing 2 levels of Monk is good too so that would at least be something if you find out you dislike Monk gameplay...Quote:
Originally Posted by Varashad
Trying the Monk on Lama is a good idea.
I knew someone that ran several low level toons up to 100 fav (for the 25 TP) and restarted until he could pay for his monk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Varashad
Took him a bit of time.
Trying the lam server if you're unsure sounds like a good plan.
My monk's the most fun toon I have.
I think its only +1 damage?Quote:
Originally Posted by Varashad
its +1 die step in damage, ie: 1d6-1d8-1d10 etc..Quote:
Originally Posted by NaturalHazard
As previously stated above and edited for grammar:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikaia
make fighter and take all the cleaves, saps, hamstrings and so on and spam them. That should give bit idea what monk is like. Of course if you don't like using too many buttons then you can drop amount of used strikes down.. i usually use just stun,trip,imp. sunder, light/dark fist and then one or two different elemental if fist doesnt work well or i have lots of ki and fist is in cooldown.
personally, on my 20 monk i use 4-5 buttons, im a dark monk all my other buttons i can hit outside of a fight and be just fine XD
1=air strike (im a wind monk)
2= flame strike (i picked up some fire stance so on bosses i can use that for + dmg, + to hit, and + ki gen so i can hit button 4 more)
3=stunning fist (no matter what stance/path you choose it is helpfull like really helpfull)
4=Touch of Death, personally i think its one of the best ones i have
5=weakness to (whichever sorc there is, if no sorcs then i put finishing move on and after 3 tods i hit it and hope that the boss doesnt save so i get to hit him for 750 or 375 with tod instead of 500 or 250)
outside of combat i choose wind stance or fire stance (90% its wind)
i choose which handwraps to use for the fight/dungeon
when im fleeing a fight i hit my fade so that way i get 1 min invis and 15%(or was it 25%) incorp, if i start to take dmg a lot i just click it
dark monks=little button smashing, but thats just me, because i dont use things like sunder/trip stunning blow (would if i had it, but forgot to grab it somehow and dont have money to redo feat)
on my light monk/acrobat (one of my favorate chars)i constantly switch between fire punch light punch fire punch combo (once a min) and lightX3 combo (love the heals) i use fire stance (if its not obvious why then try an acrobat/monk) and when someone activates that trap before its disabled i hit wind stance to get it done easier
ya i might be the minority, i might not be, all i know is dark monk you dont need the combo's AS much (i hear that the fire/dark/fire was improved greatly so i might start using that, and i always fealt void strike as a waste...)
The best analogy I've ever heard is that playing a monk is like playing the piano.
That being said, there are different levels of difficulty; a light monk with stunning fist, blow, and cleave will be quite a bit more involved than a straight DPS dark monk.
I am totally confused about how these finishers work. It says for example to do Healing Ki to do light light light. Well, I have no idea what that means. Help please!
no.Quote:
Dark Monk Finishers are rarely useful, aside from the one that increases the negative damage that enemies take. But considering that requires Dark-Dark-Dark, it'll be awhile before you meet an enemy that lives long enough to take that much damage.
incorporeal before the fight.
should keep it on anyway, its nice.
then fists of darkness on it.
incorporeal again.
dark-dark-dark finisher active.
hit it.
touch of death.
laugh.
rinse and repeat.
DEAR GOD NOQuote:
and i always fealt void strike as a waste...)
void strike 4 can kill anything on a natural 20.
even epics.
its like a not nerfed vorpal.
plus its an easy spamable 20 force damage.
There is this finisher feat, when you do strikes in right combo (like light fist+light fist+light fist ) you monk gets glow effect and the quickbar slot where the feat is changes its picture to fit what finisher you have loaded, then just activate the feat to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Varashad
very true !Quote:
Originally Posted by elg582
monks are very fun and there are some good monk splash builds
I was not sorry with my monk purchase.
You don't need to do the ki strikes to be a monk. It IS possible to run through quests holding down the mouse button and being a barbarian :P However, your dps is going to be below-par. The real dps comes from the ki strikes, the more you can juggle, the higher your dps goes. Then the combos and stuns get thrown in on top of that. Because of this the monk requires a bit more skill, and 2 monks with same stat and same gear can do wildly different damage depending on the player.
So, I have to for example use a fire Ki move three times in a row to use the finisher? Can I perform normal attacks between use of said Ki attacks?Quote:
Originally Posted by -Nismu-
I have my Monk on Lammania, and I have to admit, the class is not proving too amazing. Admittedly I have no gear for him and he's only level 5, but currently I'm having less fun on him than I do when running with a party of Pale Master TRed Warforged Wizards and I'm a cleric.
The best case scenario, using earth 3 & 4 along with whatever high-tier strikes you have, ki strikes will add up to about 10 DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecoski
Touch of Death and Smite Tainted come with some serious DPS, but the rest are almost more for setting up finishers than directly contributing to total damage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Varashad
yep. You can attack normally and use trip or sunder atleast (propably stunning blow and fist too) while making combo.. though picking up items, using doors and levelers and so on will break combo.
Monks are very worth it. I usually say, "after playing a monk to 20 and running epics, all the other classes have the volume turned down."
It's a very interactive melee class and depending on which flavor you go with, changes dramatically. So in my humble opinion, I suggest you go Light Monk first as it allows self/party buffs, healing, Raise Dead, Remove: Blindness, Disease, Curse. I've replaced the healer a few times by spam'n Mass-Cure Light throughout the quest. Find a devotion item and bump the heals even more.
http://www.esreality.com/files/image...equipment1.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by MaxwellEdison
I bet it is...:D
Potency and Devotion items along with Ardor clikies or pots will also effect ki strikes. All my monks eventually acquire a Superior Potency I item which will work for everything along any path.Quote:
Originally Posted by elg582
Personally,
I love playing my monk but I don't feel like I"m a button masher.
On trash I typically stun, and that's about it. They go down fast enough as is. Plus I am a very mobile player and it's hard enough to keep circling enemies or running from one to another (to stun them) and trying to use special attacks.
On bosses or minibosses I'll do a bit of mashing though. What else are you going to do anyway while standing in place swinging.
I like playing my monk and I was nervous about all the stuff. You learn a lot in your first few levels about which buttons work best, what does the most damage etc. You will find that you stick with a couple of finishers and strikes that seem to work best.
If you like the button pressing another class to try is Paladin, If playing a monk is like a piano then playing a pally is like playing a full size pipe organ.
I created a monk after having mostly played ranger on my main character up to cap. Ranger, of course, is basically like fighter or barbarian, single-button swing until dead, maybe switch to a bow and click manyshot every few minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Varashad
I didn't see the big deal with monks either at first, but low levels are easy to get through so I stayed with it. It takes a while (at least it did for me) to adjust to the rhythm, but I eventually hit the point where I started to really like the monk gameplay. I don't use all of the options regularly, but I certainly click more buttons than with my ranger. I find that I like having multiple options and I enjoyed the tactical play of combining certain abilities for greater effect - the increased run speed that develops is a nice perq, too.
I don't know if this will be the case for you, but I'd suggest staying with it for a bit and see if it grows on you. The gear factor may have an effect too - it's less fun when your character isn't that effective and the gear does make a difference, like with all lower-level toons.
I have heard this many times before, and it echoes my same experience with the class when it was first released. It felt like an underpowered melee at the same level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Varashad
The problem imo is Ki flow. There might be finishers you are interested in trying, but the Ki strikes to build them are rather weak, and without the 60/80% chance of an extra attack from iTWF/gTWF, it's hard to build enough Ki to use those finishers reliably. My recommendation would be to get your toon to at least iTWF before giving up on him. The only way you can really get experience with the Ki mechanic is by having enough Ki to functionally manipulate, which you won't have with just TWF. By that point you will also have Mastery-level Ki building components, which will add some oomph to your attack chains.
As for being overwhelmed by mappings, you might want to try assigning your home keys to slots on the current hotbar rather than directly mapping effects all over the keyboard. Then set some other buttons to bring a particular bar into focus, re-using those same home keys. You can develop muscle memory for firing off ten effects, rotating those effects with hotbar switching as appropriate. This also makes using a gamepad far more approachable when playing a monk.
If you prefer auto-attack to arranging Ki strikes, though, I don't think you'll find monk to be as fun to play as other melee classes.
I disagree. The DCs are calculated with full levels rather than half levels, so at the cap, using any wraps you have the same threat as Stunning Fist in +10 Weighted wraps. Pain Touch(Earth) alone is worth the price of Darkside admission. If you read "nauseated" as the effect and then never tried it, definitely give it a go sometime. On a failed save, the mob just stands there for up to a minute. The point is not that it's better than stunning, but that the build components will potentially be used anyway(Earth IV/Dark/Earth III), either when beating on a mob you just stunned or simply for boosting DPS. Stuns and other tactical moves don't break the chain, so as long as you keep track of what elements you have already thrown, getting to the finisher itself is trivial. There are even synergies within the chain- building PT with Darkness potentially ramps the DC via the Shaken debuff, and Improved Sunder will soften them up further. The longer duration of PT vs. stuns also allows you some time to build another PT with Fade when the timer is winding down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zachski
I'll usually alternate between Shining Star and Pain Touch in a constant stream of attacks when soloing, adding Freezing the Lifeblood vs. humanoids. When combined with stuns, Void charm, Quivering Palm and Sap, it's very effective local CC throughout endgame.
I would like to use Dark x3 more often, but I don't like waiting on the elements to build it. Death/Darkness/Fade would build it quickly, but then I'd be without a Death to capitalize on it. Hopefully Ninja Spy III will add a strike to help there.
Sounds like the thread to ask some of my own monk-related questions in, if the OP doesn't mind. :) I've got a twf paladin that I absolutely can't stand, and I'm going to TR her into a human pure monk. I'd like to go Light and achieve acceptable HP, saves, and DCs, with okay dps. It seems most of the monk stuff on the boards are for dark monks, though!
Here's what I was thinking:
15/15/16/8/15/8.
1 level up in dex, rest in str. +2 dex & con tomes at 7. This qualifies me for GM earth and air stances to use as appropriate.
I'd eventually like to TR it again, hence lack of consideration right now for +3 tomes. On 36p life I think I would go 15/15/16/8/16/8, +3 dex tome, +2 int tome at 7.
Basic, not-hard-to-get gear. My metric for 'not hard to get' is non-epic raid gear, or easily acquirable epic gear. So not sands, for example.
Helmet: GS HP / Heavy Fort
Goggles: Epic Raven's Sight, no idea how hard eFens gear is to get.
Neck: Shintao
Trinket: ?
Chest: DT Resist+5/Amp/Nat+4
Cloak: Mabar?
Bracers: Jidz'Tet-ka
Belt: Knost's
Ring: Kyosho's w/ holy burst
Ring: Encrusted w/ shocking burst?
Boots: Cannith boots? Does 30% striding stack with monk speed?
Gloves: Epic Brawling
I'm pretty clueless on monks. I've been around ages, but haven't really dabbled in them. Any advice on light monkery is appreciated.
There is a reason for that... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Xinrok
If you have the +2 DEX tome, why put the level point into it? You'll have the 17 DEX for the TWF line.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xinrok
That's even more weird; get those points into STR, more for to-hit than damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xinrok
Light monks are like bards; as long as you keep everyone buffed, they don't care how much damage you do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xinrok
Sorry if I wasn't clear earlier, was rushing to type this as a raid started. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by elg582
e: Also triple alch air wraps aren't an option in the near future for me as they require thirty completions of LoB and a few epic LoB runs as well.
I think you're seriously under-estimating the finishers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zachski
Monk can be as active as you want OP, and you'll probably start with a few limited cycles and then expand as you get better at cycling them. One handy trick for newer players is to figure out for the encounter ahead what your most common strikes will be, then remap those to the same limited keys but keep your generic finisher. You can do that and (for instance) set up a portal-set for Shroud pt 1, then when you get to pt4/5 switch to a boss set. You can have a set you use in epics, etc.
Certainly go air3, but by 18 you will probably be running in earth stance all the time, anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xinrok
Shocking burst is tier 1, just sayin' :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Xinrok
Oh duh, I'm thinking of electrifying blast. Silly me. I am an idiot and shouldn't post while doing multiple things at once.Quote:
Originally Posted by elg582
I've been playing the monk a bit and just got him to level 7. Thus far I dislike it, even with ITWF. I wind up auto-attacking half the time, since my fingers just aren't quick enough to push a dozen buttons every three seconds. I assume this comes with practice? I did manage however to solo Proof is in the Poison on elite. It took me about an hour and over a hundred potions admittedly, but I am liking if nothing else the good saves.
I auto attack all the time, just add ki strikes into the chainQuote:
Originally Posted by Varashad
There's only three things that can interrupt a ki chain.
1. Another elemental ki attack (I think Void is included in this)
2. Waiting too long (which is longer than you'd think)
3. Interacting with an object (which will be your most frequent interruptions - fixed by having others interact with objects)
I'm doing my best to figure out enhancements for my human light monk, but it's a nightmare at times. Do I take both Shintao 3 and Void 4? I can do it, but at a loss of 1 Wis from enhancements, some extra HP, and I wanted GM Wind stance but can't fit it. Taking all of the extra stances is such a hog when it comes to AP!
I was also wondering if human versatility was worthwhile on a monk? Given the high attack rate, maxing that out for the bonus damage could be handy. Of course, I can't fit it all with Void 4.
I wouldn't, but many people swear by void4.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xinrok
Skip GM wind; wind3 is fine, since you should be running in earth most of the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xinrok
It is worth it; skip wind4 and WIS, and get void4, earth4, most of the HP (you can skip tortoise 3 & 4), and the 1 WIS could go either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xinrok
I'd like to point out that anyone who thinks Barbarians are simply auto attack and done need to reroll.
to be a great monk is to make your hands and wrosts scream in agony as you overwhelm your foes with a flurry of attacks of a variety of elemental dmg boosts, and finishers. that none will stand against you. and then you log off, get a cold beer, and hold it with your left hand for a while and shove it into a cooler full of more, as you will need them.
If you like fighter and barb then you are likely not up for monks. Monks are for those who want to stand alone and WIN!
Wow, that's silly; of course barbarians have to do other things, like run away while the cleric drinks more SP pots to keep healing you.... :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Consumer
This is what I came up with earlier, before seeing your post:Quote:
Originally Posted by elg582
Capstone
Human Heal Amp I
Monk Heal Amp III
Shintao III
Master Fire/Water/Air
GM Earth
Void 4
Toughness II
Concentration I (filler)
Human Wis I
Monk Wis I
Tortoise I
Rise of the Phoenix + 4 pre-reqs
That leaves room for... One human versatility. :(
:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Xinrok
Shintao II needs amp III.Quote:
Originally Posted by elg582
I always start pressing 1-4 keys even when I am not on my monk. It's bad :(.Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastianosmith
oh ****, forgot about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xinrok
In that case, I don't see a way to do it without losing phoenix, but then, you can get a clicky for that...
e: You saw nothing.
e2: Okay, set my silliness aside. Here's a revised set of enhancements for my Light monk. This should be better:
Capstone
Human Wis I
Monk Wis I
Human Recovery I
Monk Recovery III
Concentration II (filler)
Versatility 4
Tortoise II
Toughness II
Shintao Monk III
Void 4
Air/Fire/Water Master
GM Earth