New Guild Policy- any input is appreciated

Raids that absolutely require a healer to drink a pot will require a payment of 1,000PP upon acceptance to the group to be used for healing scrolls, pots, fix mass newb! Pugs do not get in unless they pay!

The person with the star is required to collect the funds and distribute said funds to required healers at the end of the quest, even if that person passes the star!

If a wipe occurs, funds will be collected again if pots were used.

If caster has to drink pots to complete the raid, said caster will not be responsible for the 1,000PP and will receive a share of the funds.
a. If caster drops 84 firewalls when 14 are needed, we will make fun of you and not give you any caching.

Raids/Quests that fit in the above mentioned;
ToD
Epic Chronoscope
Some Epic quests

it seems to me if people are not takin care of their guild healers its a recruiting issue. If youre charging for running something then you'd better be the only one in DDO who can run it or run it solo and let everyone pike. imo

what guild is this?

why would you want to run with a group that you need to pay to run with them?
i would leave the guild if i started to be charged for joining a raid. evan if it is only 1kpp

- post removed -

Sounds lame. I feel like we already paid/pay enough to play this game. If you can find people who agree with that, then more power to them...I guess.

You Drink a Potion Because, You do not want to fail a raid/Waste an hour of time.
IMO it is greed that keeps people from using these potions.

IMO= In my Opinion

That is All

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Originally Posted by Garbudo

You Drink a Potion Because, You do not want to fail a raid/Waste an hour of time.
IMO it is greed that keeps people from using these potions.

IMO= In my Opinion

That is All

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It isn't greed that stops me from drinking a potion in certain situations. If in the situation, I run out of SP because of bad players then I won't drink a potion and I will let the raid wipe, people need to learn the hard way.

If I run out of SP because I make a mistake or because 1 person does something that couldn't be avoided (other healer DCs) then I will drink a potion as it's not fair to make everyone else pay for 1 persons mistake. In case 1 I wouldn't ask for compensation, in case 2 I would.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mattat

Raids that absolutely require a healer to drink a pot will require a payment of 1,000PP upon acceptance to the group to be used for healing scrolls, pots, fix mass newb! Pugs do not get in unless they pay!

The person with the star is required to collect the funds and distribute said funds to required healers at the end of the quest, even if that person passes the star!

If a wipe occurs, funds will be collected again if pots were used.

If caster has to drink pots to complete the raid, said caster will not be responsible for the 1,000PP and will receive a share of the funds.
a. If caster drops 84 firewalls when 14 are needed, we will make fun of you and not give you any caching.

Raids/Quests that fit in the above mentioned;
ToD
Epic Chronoscope
Some Epic quests

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mattat

it seems to me if people are not takin care of their guild healers its a recruiting issue. If youre charging for running something then you'd better be the only one in DDO who can run it or run it solo and let everyone pike. imo

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Did you just disagree with yourself?

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Originally Posted by wax_on_wax_off

It isn't greed that stops me from drinking a potion in certain situations. If in the situation, I run out of SP because of bad players then I won't drink a potion and I will let the raid wipe, people need to learn the hard way.

If I run out of SP because I make a mistake or because 1 person does something that couldn't be avoided (other healer DCs) then I will drink a potion as it's not fair to make everyone else pay for 1 persons mistake. In case 1 I wouldn't ask for compensation, in case 2 I would.

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So dont penalize the good players it wastes their time as well as your own, its called buff the people that are doing something dont do anything for the worthless ones in group. You not drinking a potion just wastes your time as well, punishment would be dropping a tharnes goggles and grabbing it even if you had them because the rogue in group was a "Turd" There are plenty of ways to punish people besides just saying ok oh well lets let this raid fail.

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Originally Posted by Garbudo

So dont penalize the good players it wastes their time as well as your own, its called buff the people that are doing something dont do anything for the worthless ones in group. You not drinking a potion just wastes your time as well, punishment would be dropping a tharnes goggles and grabbing it even if you had them because the rogue in group was a "Turd" There are plenty of ways to punish people besides just saying ok oh well lets let this raid fail.

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A raid is a team effort, imo, if 4 or more people (rough guess at proportions, 33%) are screwing up then:
a. the raid will probably fail regardless of if i drink a pot or not,
b. the leader failed at
a. making a good party and/or
b. leading a party, again, drinking a major won't save the outcome
c. the outcome reflects upon the raid leader and upon the people screwing up
d. not the healers fault

however, if, only 1-3 people is screwing up then
a. i won't need to drink a pot as this falls within the "margin of error" in my spell point pool allowance

however, if, 50% or more in a certain role are failing at their job (casters CCing, other healers healing etc.)
a. Others may pick up the slack (healer overhealing? I stop healing until they run out of SP, wizard not CCing? Cleric/Bard takes over, etc...) often with participation/support/direction from a competent leader
b. others do not pick up the slack, leader does nothing: raid fails unless majors get used

In the case of the last point, I don't mind drinking a major in this case but expect to be reimbursed - sometimes if i see the situation developing (healer at 50% sp 3 minutes in ...) then i will clarify this with the party so that there is no confusion but if there is not the luxury of time to clarify then i will use the major because i don't want the raid to fail on account of one person.

The biggest problem that I see is that if there is this expectation that majors are reimbursed then people who learned to heal badly will feel comfortable to keep healing badly. Imo, you should enter into a quest without the intention of having to use a major, if you don't think you can manage that then go get some better gear (archmagi, bauble, eSS ring, GS SP/conc opp etc.) or learn how to heal better. If I'm going into a situation which I know will put a strain on my SP pool I'll settle in to spot healing with heal scrolls straight away, use radiant servant burst/aura as much as possible and rely on my most SP efficient healing as much as possible (superior ardor VI clicky, empowered healing, mass cure light/moderate, preferably no quicken).

You know why Epic Chrono and ToD sometimes need pots?

Choice of main tank.

Everyone needs to get over the whole " Put the highest hp, dps toon on Horath and spam heals" and the same with the Abishai and ask them to dodge fire and ice with a helping of lag.

Don't want to use pots in Chrono? Get a tank with 500+ hp, Evasion w/+40ref save and some fire absorb gear (Firestorm Greaves and Cold Shield is enough to survive a failed save on fire). Ability to hold agro helps obviously.

I tank Epic Chrono on my pally like that, stay in on fire and ice, and at the end I am told how much more boring that was than when the tank dies, agro changes and chaos ensues.

Lay on Hands is one of the best class abilities ever, and has saved many tank deaths.

Don't tell me pots are needed in Epic OOB either :)

Just need to go in with a solid strategy - controlling agro is the biggest thing, be it intim and shield blocking, kiting etc. All the successful, and efficient, raid strategies are about controlling agro. Much easier to heal 1 jackass than 8 jackass's :)

When did ToD require a cleric to drink a pot? Yeah sometimes the S*** hits the fan, and I need to, but more than 75% of the time no pot is required, and sometimes I don't even need to hit my bauble...

thanks so far guys. in response to if i just disagreed with myself- no, this wasnt my idea, but my opposition was ignored, this was the most constructive thing i could think of, and all the input is proving very interesting. keep it coming

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mattat

Raids that absolutely require a healer to drink a pot will require a payment of 1,000PP upon acceptance to the group to be used for healing scrolls, pots, fix mass newb! Pugs do not get in unless they pay!

The person with the star is required to collect the funds and distribute said funds to required healers at the end of the quest, even if that person passes the star!

If a wipe occurs, funds will be collected again if pots were used.

If caster has to drink pots to complete the raid, said caster will not be responsible for the 1,000PP and will receive a share of the funds.
a. If caster drops 84 firewalls when 14 are needed, we will make fun of you and not give you any caching.

Raids/Quests that fit in the above mentioned;
ToD
Epic Chronoscope
Some Epic quests

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which guild is this? a pm is fine, just lemme know so i can avoid when playing on orien, thanks.

sry herz, im doin my best to keep the guild name out of it in hopes that this gets rectified.
Im not here to burn the guild, its a great guild, save a few minor faults.In fact we've made mistakes before and fixed them. This post is to get the big picture. From what Ive gathered Im not the only one who feels ultimately that this will cost us rep and good players, and I cant stand by and let that happen. Im not even an officer, but Ive been with this guild since the day they started, its my home. I dont want the idiom to change, its the people that make the guild, and not the other way around. TY all

Sounds like you might have difficulty ratifying/enforcing that one. Instead, why not just encourage your guild members to make donations of wands, scrolls, platinum, etc., to the healers that participate in your raids?

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Originally Posted by memnir

my Feedback Is This.... If You Want This To Be A Policy For Your Guildmates, Fine. That Is Between You And Your Guildies, And If They Find It Acceptable Then That's Fine For You As A Collective Entity.

But, If You Want To Force A Door-charge On Me As A Puger, I'll Just Drop Group And Find Another. I Have No Problems Kicking In For Consumables After The Raid - But As An Up-front Fee I Find It Distasteful. Expect This To Be Unpopular.

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+1

yes agreed. Once again, everyone should take care of their healers. Thats not the issue, as I caster i rarely use the Major pots that end up in my inventory, i give them to my healers, and i use my baubles and trinkets. i watch sp and ill give a cleric a pot for a bad flaggin quest even, or for doing a good job in a no pot situation. TAKE CARE OF YOUR HEALERS!! My point is this- if you need to institute a pay for play raid policy because the healers are goin broke then , to me, the issue lies in individuals not takin care of the healers.And taxing not only guildies but PUGs also to run up front is a mistake. If it isnt just about greed then there is a better solution. IMO
For instance- Epic Chrono can be trying, so we set up a Chrono Pot Fund and have guildies donate majors. then from that pile we pay out healers IN a bad situation. Hows that sound?

That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I have a couple of clerics and I find that you either don't need to use pots at all or you need to down them by the case regardless of what content you're running based completely upon the level of jackassery in the group you are running with.

If a particular guild finds that it's healers are always burning through a ton of pots on guild runs, to me that speaks to the caliber of players in that guild not the difficulty of the raid in question.

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Originally Posted by Mattat

For instance- Epic Chrono can be trying, so we set up a Chrono Pot Fund and have guildies donate majors. then from that pile we pay out healers IN a bad situation. Hows that sound?

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Much better. Although if you are not in a situation where your members are not already funneling all their pots to the healers...what are they doing with them?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mattat

Raids that absolutely require a healer to drink a pot will require a payment of 1,000PP upon acceptance to the group to be used for healing scrolls, pots, fix mass newb! Pugs do not get in unless they pay!

The person with the star is required to collect the funds and distribute said funds to required healers at the end of the quest, even if that person passes the star!

If a wipe occurs, funds will be collected again if pots were used.

If caster has to drink pots to complete the raid, said caster will not be responsible for the 1,000PP and will receive a share of the funds.
a. If caster drops 84 firewalls when 14 are needed, we will make fun of you and not give you any caching.

Raids/Quests that fit in the above mentioned;
ToD
Epic Chronoscope
Some Epic quests

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There are no raids that absolutely require a healer to drink a pot.

jwdaniels, you speak the truth! Thats my problem with this policy. it speaks poorly of our guild ability, and we truly are a good raid guild, and in the few months we've been together accomplished leaps and bounds over some other "epic" guilds.

I have proposed this - keepin track of who is running and not donating, then expelling the greedy. sound like alot of work and a bit extreme, but the goal is awesome players ruling epic content.

keep that input coming.

I would not have a problem helping reimburse for consumables (After the quest is over), but only if said caster or healer did not run past shrines and mana pools along the way. If they refused to use a shrine because it took to long, then no contribution from me.

I don't play on Orien, but I know that on Ghallanda I am amazed if I ever get a pot donation from a non-guildy. Hence, why you see less and less healers joining PUGs and more and more PUGs failing. The good healers got sick of being poor trying to keep up with healing PUGs and were retired to the good life aka Guild only Runs.

Thirans and Eladiun: I agree. but for sake of argument i left that in the wording to differentiate that the policy is about the few harder raids, were not talkin about reavers fate here
but truly, no raid REQUIRES pots, i agree

There are no raids/quests in this game that "absolutely" require mana pots. If things go poorly feel free to help contribute, but an upfront charge is almost always a bad idea.

If anyone has input on my booting the no donating , plz help. either let me know the detials if you do something similar, or directing me to such a resource would be great.

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Originally Posted by Mattat

sry herz, im doin my best to keep the guild name out of it in hopes that this gets rectified.
Im not here to burn the guild, its a great guild, save a few minor faults.In fact we've made mistakes before and fixed them. This post is to get the big picture. From what Ive gathered Im not the only one who feels ultimately that this will cost us rep and good players, and I cant stand by and let that happen. Im not even an officer, but Ive been with this guild since the day they started, its my home. I dont want the idiom to change, its the people that make the guild, and not the other way around. TY all

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Alright, so if I'm understanding correctly, you are a member of guild X.
Guild X is planning on introducing the policy you outlined in your first post.
You as a long term member of this guild are heading to the forums to seek advice and suggestions on a better way to implement said policy.

Assuming those points are true, then I'm not sure how productive your thread is going to be. Since we don't know the actual name of the guild in question, or it's members it's hard to make any serious comments about your raiding plan. A more productive way to go about it may be to try and pm leaders of the big raid focused guilds and see how they keep everything going. Then, take that information and use it to develop a more effective plan that your guild can agree on.

Now with that said, any guild plan that forces a payment before each raid, is unlikely to go over well. Rather, you should be encouraging fellow guild members to donate any spare pots they have, or plat for scrolls, ect...

I play a non healer: Can I have plats to fund my GS items? I mean, the +45hp for example from a hp item would be greatly beneficial to raids I join. And the MIN2/Lit2 weapon would also help the party beat down bosses and mobs alike much faster. Oh, and I need plats to fund my tome addiction. And my friends 'The Pugs' need any Hearts Of Wood the party comes across to fix the infinity build mistakes they made to LR/GR/TR so they don't have 250hp at level 20.

Where would you draw the line? Just mana pots? Just blue bars?

Every class has its costs. While Mana pots are a little overpriced on the AH (at least on Orien), theres no reason why I would ever feel obliged to give them to healers. Especially in PUGs where you don't know if the healer poorly built/geared his or her character. If I feel that people are doing an exceptional job, AND I have the spare spots kicking around, then I'll toss you some.

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Originally Posted by squeek1984

Can I have plats to fund my GS items? I mean, the +45hp for example from a hp item would be greatly beneficial to raids I join. And the MIN2/Lit2 weapon would also help the party beat down bosses and mobs alike much faster.

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+1 QFT.

(X Base mats + 12 smalls + 12 mediums + 24 larges) x 4 swords(2 minII and 2 LitII)

Wondering what a price tag for all those materials would add up to. Add that to having a weapon for every occasion (2 vorpals/smiters/disruptors/banishers/and a pair of banes for every boss) Then compare that to the cost of Pots.

As alot of others have posted, if you rely that heavily on pots, then something is wrong.

In the grand scheme of things, my healers are very much in the black on my virtual spreadsheet of character "costs."

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Originally Posted by Mattat

Raids that absolutely require a healer to drink a pot will require a payment of 1,000PP upon acceptance to the group to be used for healing scrolls, pots, fix mass newb! Pugs do not get in unless they pay!

Raids/Quests that fit in the above mentioned;
ToD
Epic Chronoscope
Some Epic quests

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ToD elite with Suulo optional is the only raid where healers need to use consumables. Without the optional, you definitely don't need to use consumables, even on elite.

The only epic that may require consumable usage is eADQ because it has a ******** amount of trash and only one shrine.

If you're a healer and constantly have to chug mana pots, find better people to play with. Well built and well geared DPS toons relieve healers of the consumable burden.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mattat

Raids that absolutely require a healer to drink a pot will require a payment of 1,000PP upon acceptance to the group to be used for healing scrolls, pots, fix mass newb!

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Well, since there are no quests that absolutely require a healer to drink a potion then we're all safe. :D

BTW, what guild so that I know who not to run with. Or, maybe you can collect for my characters too to pay for repair bills, healing potions and wands used when your healer is futzing about trying to figure out how to conserve spell points and use them wisely, etc.

I know, how about I pay myself to join your raids that way we're even from the git go. :cool:

I'm in this guild, and I figure it's OK: I'll pay 1kpp for those 3 raids, then I'll sell my major SP pots to our healers for 10kpp each, instead of just donating them like I did before.

Granted, this will probably destroy the guild, but if they're going to be greedy, then so am I, and then what's the point of having a guild?

Anyone recruiting? :)

Wow, great input. i plan pming the raid guilds as was suggested, but in the meantime I think taking over donations and keeping track of who donates and who doesnt is the best decision. this may change if it becomes too much to manage, but ive spoken with my guild leader and will put it to vote at next officers meeting. this way were not charging (blech) for raiding nor taxing those who already do the right thing.
We'll see how it goes, hopefullyits as easy as it sounds.

All this being said, everyone makes mistakes, so please dont hate my guild for a bad choice. The problem of guildies not takin care of healers after bad runs is an issue so I understand putting a policy in play to address it. We just miscued :) Thanks for your help toward a constructive outcome.

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Originally Posted by Mattat

so please dont hate my guild for a bad choice.

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I missed where you said who your guild is.

If you are going to implement a policy of collecting plat up front from pugs, then you should save people some grief now and let us know what guild you are speaking of.

Frequent puggers such as myself, and others, can then make informed decisions about joining said raids. If you want to have a discussion about something of this nature, at least let us know who you are.

if they stick with the policy ( which hasnt been enforced yet due to bad feedback ) Ill tell you which guild. Butif they change they policy it will be moot, and disaster will have been averted. ty

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Originally Posted by Mattat

If anyone has input on my booting the no donating , plz help. either let me know the detials if you do something similar, or directing me to such a resource would be great.

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If you are booting the non-donating. Then it is not really a donation, is it?

Look, if this is going to be impemented in your Guild, and you don't want it to be, convince the Officers.

If you really disagree with the upcoming policy, and cannot convince the Officers, then remove yourself from the Guild.

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Don't get me wrong, I'd pay some plat to burn certain Raid timers twice a week with a guaranteed success and a fast Raid crew. But if yer needing funding for pots, then ya can't really guarantee success in my eyes.

Plat is easy, Trust is hard. If an Officer of your Guild is reading this: Don't waste yer Reputation for short term problems. Handle this another way.

I think I understand the basic concept of what your guild is wanting to do; you are wanting to find a way to raise funds to keep healers stocked up on items that they need to help make some of the more "difficult" content go smoother. If that is what you are trying to do, then I applaud your thoughts and effort. However, I like most everyone else here, think that charging plat to a pug member is a bad idea. I do have a suggestion on how your guild might go about raising funds for healers.

This idea will require a high haggle toon, more often than not a bard, of someone that guild leader and officers trust. Ask guild members to once a week, or month, or raid (this should be agreed upon by the guild) to send items (value and type of items should be agreed upon by guild) to said haggle toon. Then said haggle toon would sell items and buy supplies as needed. The said haggle toon would be able to keep track of who is donating, since most things would be mailed to them; then if your guild feels that everyone should be donating, you will know who is and isn't and take action as you see fit.

I use to belong to a guild that did something, similar to this. My cleric in that guild never had to worry about supplies, because if I needed something all I had to do was say I needed it.

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Originally Posted by Mattat

Thirans and Eladiun: I agree. but for sake of argument i left that in the wording to differentiate that the policy is about the few harder raids, were not talkin about reavers fate here
but truly, no raid REQUIRES pots, i agree

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When we were pioneering epic Chrono, it was made clear that anyone in the group was expected to tip back to the healers until we had a viable strategy that did not cost excessive pots. No one had any issues with this...if they did they would not have had a spot as it was we had 20 people wanting 12 spots in the initial learning group. The first 3 were very expensive on resources, now we usually expend 0 pots.

As for the code of conduct, when I drafted ours and our raid primer, I strongly worded it as suggestion...

When in guild or public groups (especially Raids), please help support the group with any resources you can. If things go poorly healers can expend a great deal of resources in scrolls, wands, and SP pots. Contributing wands, scrolls, or pots to the healers is always looked upon favorably.

...it should be enough to plant the idea in the heads of those that don't know better.. Most players should know better. On raids, that cost resources beyond normal for one reason or another if I am leading I make it a point to call attention to it so members of the raid realize it. Melees often pay little attention to blue bars. This usually nets more donated pots than the healers spent. Guild groups should respect their healers automatically with out it being mandatory. If you have an issue with greedy members or members who do not help, then they get low priority when filling raid spots.

Still wanting a PM of the guild name please.

@ amythystdragon - wow thats is almost word for word the process my guild leader and i are working out. Your comment inspires confidence since you said it accomplished the goal, awesome.

@Lleran - I believe Ive handled this diplomatically and I invite my guild officers to read it. It's not a gripe, I post questions on forum about raids and builds, so why not guild policy. I would recommend using the forums as much as possible to all who enjoy DDO simply for the reason that EVERYTHING has been done already, learn from others. That being said I agree with most of your statements as well, and if I need to , for myself or because this puts a bad taste in peoples mouth then so be it. But if you understand my motivation and my willingness to put out extra effort in the pursuit of progress- you'll know my intentions are for the best for the guild.

TY guys. btw 1 day till vote on policy. hopefully this was all a false alarm.

it was a false alarm. the policy was suspended and the crisis was averted. the larger problems that were happening were people bringing in newer toons that didn't have gear or a proper setup to participate in raids (to quote a friend of mine "there were rogues bringing +1 met of pg light picks to elite tod" note that was in reference to a different guild i've been in but it applies here quite nicely). due to a few people being setup oddly and many recent TRs our normal raider rotation was disrupted a 'little' to say the least our main tank is currently lvl..... *checks myddo* looks like 12ish. and my paladin is filling in for most of the harder raids. needless to say the toons that are appearing in raids now aren't quite the best geared toons out there and may not be the most experienced. its causing rifts throughout the raiding schedule for the simple reason that we were used to doing things a certain way and then almost suddenly we had to change. These difficulties were immediately felt by the healers due to higher pot consumption and scroll usage therefore the policy was put in place to try and ease the burden on the healers at that time it has since been suspended and a purely donation oriented system is in effect. no they are not REQUIRED to donate, my beating stick has been denied clearance to assault the people who refused to turn in a pot >.>

anyways. crisis averted guild is back to normal and no longer FUBAR. move along. nothing to see here. I SAID MOVE ALONG!

I am an officer in this guild. I am one of the main healers as well. It has happened many times as to where healers have paid the cost of un-equiped noobs. I mean 11 pots on a normal ToD? Go freakin re-roll. Also, discussing guild business on the forums isn't appreciated at all. If our guild member want us to be more strict on recruiting, I will start from the inside out. Cause half the people telling us to do that would need to be kicked. 2k plat is petty and doesn't even helped...it was derived from 7 ****ed officers for having crappy members who want to roll on rings while wearing kothos gear :)

BTW the guild is Disorderly Conduct. I said it so Mattat doesn't have to follow threw with his threat if we didn't repeal it. However, since i said the name of our guild, maybe i'll just type the names of the people who are causing our raids to go **** down on the forums unless they fix themselves? How bout that?

my fighter wears the goggles of insight because he doesn't have a set of mentau's goggles yet? >.> then again this same fighter has lit 2s a 56 raid str (no ship no madstones QQ) a litany and a wretched twilight.... he does just fine in these raids oO even got the frenzy barb set!

:O Noob....maybe i should list your character names first? :D

sure :P i'm perfectly certain that people want to see my 12 f 6 barb 2 rog or my pally ac tank or favored soul who is ONE SHARD FROM COMPLETION (curse you belt of the mroranon) etc etc so on and so forth. but either way... prolly wouldn't do much other than listing all my toons in one spot lol

yeah chad, since you screwed this post up go ahead and call out whos been screwing up the raids ? and ill say whos grown too big for his britches and cost the guild more.

TY everyone for your help, however in vain it was.

Idc if I screwed up this post, it shouldn't exist. Another that shouldn't exist is you membership in this guild which will be resolved.

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Originally Posted by ChadB123

I am an officer in this guild. I am one of the main healers as well. It has happened many times as to where healers have paid the cost of un-equiped noobs. I mean 11 pots on a normal ToD? Go freakin re-roll. Also, discussing guild business on the forums isn't appreciated at all. If our guild member want us to be more strict on recruiting, I will start from the inside out. Cause half the people telling us to do that would need to be kicked. 2k plat is petty and doesn't even helped...it was derived from 7 ****ed officers for having crappy members who want to roll on rings while wearing kothos gear :)

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Yeah but everyones gotta pay for bad players, and in a pugging scenario just forcing a "tax" on players because things "might" go sour is not a good idea. No one likes to be taxed for groups. I mean most healers get by without potting, the healer could suck and this policy doesn't account for that.

and 2k plat may be "petty" but you add that up for every group run and it becomes quite a bit. If it doesn't even help that is further reason to not enforce such a rule. Were I a part of this guild I would do everything to get rid of this policy before potential blacklisting occur. It is a good way to protect the guild....

that in mind it is a good sign of respect to reimburse a particularly good healer who had to save a groups rear. However you generally have to be really good for that. If you are the kind of healer who spams heals on someone who got hit once, and chugs pots, then you aren't doing sp conservation and harming yourself in the process. Nobody "deserves" to be paid before every quest and no pugger expects that kind of treatment.

Not so, I am a good healer =p. The guy who posted this came in our ToD run with 200 hp and it wasn't fun :(. I'm not saying you have to agree with the rule, i think its pathetic that it exist. But, posting guild info on the forums isn't a very nice thing to do. I agree that maybe we should recruit better. But before we do that we much clean up the inside so that would leave us with.... :D It was just a rule because officer were ****ed that 5 people were carrying the raids and the healers were paying 8 pots for a normal ToD completions and I have all my freakin rings. I'm losing money here keep that in mind. The rule wasn't my idea and I hate that it had to and/or did exist. But complain about it on our site, not the servers.

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Originally Posted by ChadB123

I am one of the main healers as well. It has happened many times as to where healers have paid the cost of un-equiped noobs. I mean 11 pots on a normal ToD? Go freakin re-roll.

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You are my hero. Wish more people would take this attitude.

Ha. it was 260. and I still successfully kited part 2 and did what i needed 2 do, and by next week i was up to 325 hp. not to mention bumpin up my epic DC . Try to burn me all you want. At least i didnt waste forum time for BS. this was a legitimate post before you decided to try to use it to mess with me. idc im gonna keep playing. thank the devs for squelch. btw thanks for epitomizing the term "guild - drama " for me favo.

Anytime bro. And no, first time Llothh stepped into ToD, he had 200 hp :). See here, disagreeing with a rule is fine, but threatening to out the guild name unless we repeal. Idc if everyone knows who the heck we are! Let them know we let un-equipped peeps in and we are baby sitters for end game content. Threatening us was a stupid mistake. Disorderly Conduct is not ashamed we charged for raids, but we are ashamed for letting those in the led to that conclusion. The rule is gone, and so are you. You should be happy we got rid of it as I am happy with the outcome as well.

Yours Truly,
Favoritesoul (the one who kept you alive with 200 hp and zefie was yelling HIDE IN THE CORNER LLOTHH!)

go through the raid.

before the warded chest is popped. say, or type: pot count?

this will let you see what has been used and is a polite nudge to party members to donate. Sure keep track of who does if you want.

who knows, you might have a healer that is using 11 when it should be 1, but no matter what it puts the cost into perspective for all participants.

As far as the cover charge (that does not seem to be refundable), no deal unless it is an elite ToD or something along those lines.

Well, that just ruined the guild's reputation.

Congratulations.

Maybe I should start charging for buffs (100pp/person), nuking (500pp/quest or 1k in raid) and CC (1k/quest or 2k in raid)...

Ye and on my new melees i'll say give me a bb and i'll come offer my awesome dps :)

This guild use to kick so much ass, poor character builds or not! Now I'm afraid it's going down the crapper. :,(

actually its just one dude showing his ass. Sry again to all who wasted time reading this

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Originally Posted by Mattat

Raids that absolutely require a healer to drink a pot will require a payment of 1,000PP upon acceptance to the group to be used for healing scrolls, pots, fix mass newb! Pugs do not get in unless they pay!

The person with the star is required to collect the funds and distribute said funds to required healers at the end of the quest, even if that person passes the star!

If a wipe occurs, funds will be collected again if pots were used.

If caster has to drink pots to complete the raid, said caster will not be responsible for the 1,000PP and will receive a share of the funds.
a. If caster drops 84 firewalls when 14 are needed, we will make fun of you and not give you any caching.

Raids/Quests that fit in the above mentioned;
ToD
Epic Chronoscope
Some Epic quests

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This has to be a joke. If your serious your guild will soon vanish and no one will quest with you.

and Carpone, if thats a hero, then sry about your judgement.

I'm sorry I get offended when a guildy threatens my guild.

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Originally Posted by Mattat

actually its just one dude showing his ass. Sry again to all who wasted time reading this

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Yeah that CHADB123 guy really did come off like an ass, and a bad healer at that.

Oh bahaha.....anger post are wonderful. I'm sorry i'm not good enough of a healer to cure ignorance which you have so tremendously shown. Congrats!

Plus you dont even play on my server....its cool you know i'm a bad healer :)

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Originally Posted by ChadB123

Oh bahaha.....anger post are wonderful. I'm sorry i'm not good enough of a healer to cure ignorance which you have so tremendously shown. Congrats!

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Yes, your anger post was funny, thank you.

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Originally Posted by ChadB123

Plus you dont even play on my server....its cool you know i'm a bad healer :)

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I am judging by your own comments about your healing.

Well thats a good way to judge....However....I can see where I came off as a ****. But, lets review what has happened: Mattat (Llothh member of Disorderly Conduct (now former)) Post on forums about a guild rule that he hates and says its for the good....when he clearly threatened to out the name of the guild if we didn't repeal it. Yes, the rule is stupid, yes it should not have existed. But, Llothh went about it the WRONG way. Send a letter to your officers and say give your reasons...don't threaten your guild. I apologize for any out of line things I may have said. But I was not alone in this, the officer agreed that his post was idiotic on his side and would be dealt with. The rule has been repealed and Disorderly Conduct is still a beast guild (with even our few not so beasty players...more like kittens).

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Originally Posted by Mattat

if they stick with the policy ( which hasnt been enforced yet due to bad feedback ) Ill tell you which guild. Butif they change they policy it will be moot, and disaster will have been averted. ty

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Thats the one that pretty much ****ed me off.

As entertaining as this thread has been - I think it's time for the guildmates involved to take it to their own forum or have some other form of internal discussion. Had I known that the OP was not the guildleader asking for an opinion on a new policy - I would never have said anything. I don't think it's a rank and file guildmate's place to take guild matters to the forums. And likewise, I would be embarrassed if an officer in my guild conducted themselves in a manner as has been on display here. You are both doing nothing but making yourselves and your guild look like a collection of fools. If I played on your server - I'd avoid the lot of you after this shabby display.


Get a room, and get it out of public view.

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Originally Posted by ChadB123

Also, discussing guild business on the forums isn't appreciated at all.

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Ye i already mentioned that.

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Originally Posted by ChadB123

Ye i already mentioned that.

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And yet you continue to prove my other point.

Funny that.

Well I'm sorry I got alittle upset to find out a guildy was doing this.

I understand that - but it may be time to be the bigger man here, and let the matter drop. If you don't want your guild's drama to be public fodder, stop throwing gas on the fire, so to speak. I mean, it was you who publicly put the name of the guild out there, am I right? Yeah... probably not the best call.


But, whatever. It's your guild, your policy, your members, and your call.
Do as you will.

Ye i just think its funny all these people from different servers/guild who doesn't really know anything thats going on all of a sudden knows whats best for the guild...I know i'm the one posting but it was not my decision alone to expose the guild....we actually don't care if you know.

shining example of why children should not be officers

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Originally Posted by Mattat

shining example of why children should not be officers

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Originally Posted by Mattat

I believe Ive handled this diplomatically and I invite my guild officers to read it. It's not a gripe, I post questions on forum about raids and builds, so why not guild policy.

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Bollocks. You clearly started this thread to create drama. You awkwardly presented an unsound policy proposal with absolutely no context, then immediately criticized it yourself. You were obviously trying to incite criticism of the proposal by setting it up that way. If you sincerely wanted constructive advice, you would have provided some context. For instance:

I'm a 200hp drow arcane with no toughness. Me and some other guildies are so suboptimally built and equipped for raiding that it's causing terrible stress on our healers. Our guild healers have to routinely drink 10+ pots to get us through normal ToD. It's gotten so bad that our guild officers are considering charging admission to offset costs to healers. I think this is a bad direction for our guild, any advice?

Instead of doing this, you disingenuously criticized your own characterization of a policy proposal, threatened to out your guild on the forums, you goaded the forum population to attack your officers, and then resorted to ad hominem attacks.

As further evidence that you are not genuinely seeking any advice: When someone outside your guild suggested that pots and policy are not the problem, but rather personnel/roster quality control (a legitimate opinion from a very experienced raid leader on Orien), you graciously dismissed him:

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Originally Posted by Mattat

and Carpone, if thats a hero, then sry about your judgement.

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Stop already. You're not impressing anyone. (Not positively anyway.)

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Originally Posted by Mattat

and Carpone, if thats a hero, then sry about your judgement.

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200hp arcanes shouldn't set foot in ToD because they're a liability. You probably didn't have any cold absorption besides Fire Shield either. Unequipped toons like you flagging on casual are part of the problem. You should be thanking the people that took the time to help you equip and readjust your character instead of lambasting them on the forums. You don't deserve their help.

I've done ToD with Favoritesoul. He's a solid leader and Orien would benefit greatly with more people like him leading raids.

is this what Orien is all about?? Thank God I m in Thelanis.

Please dont come there and spoil our server.

The real problem is that the guild name got out; that the officers were even considering this kind of policy...

Thanks for some entertainment while drinking my Monday morning coffee.

Its stuff like this that makes me <3 my guild :)

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Originally Posted by Mattat

shining example of why children should not be officers

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And this is a shinning example of why guild drama is better left within the guild itself, and not spilled over into the forums. Please, before you berate the conduct of others, take stock of your own accountability here. The balance-sheet on your actions here are a far cry from being able to call the kettle black.

Get a room. Please.

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Originally Posted by elg582

The real problem is that the guild name got out; that the officers were even considering this kind of policy...

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No the real problem is the people that the policy was invented for O.o

Let me simplify this for those who seem to not understand:

1) If you don't like your guild's policies; find another guild.
2) If you don't like your guilds officer's; find another guild.
3) If you think your guild is filled with clueless noobs not worth the investment to educate and gear; find another guild.
4) Other; find another guild.

It's very simple. If you don't like where you are there is no binding contract holding you there. Move on.

Thanks for the B grade drama and slap fight though...mildly entertaining.

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Originally Posted by ChadB123

Ye i just think its funny all these people from different servers/guild who doesn't really know anything thats going on all of a sudden knows whats best for the guild...

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It really doesn't matter which server or guild you are from, it is pretty much universally understood that broadcasting guild problems is never a good idea.

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Originally Posted by ChadB123

Also, discussing guild business on the forums isn't appreciated at all.

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Once again, nothing I havn't already mentioned Crann. But thank you for stressing my point. This post shouldn't exist.

Ah, the train wreck that is Orien.

Keep up the good work....Khyber will raise the bar im sure.

This is the funniest thing I ever read sorry lol. I have my own reasons for why :) But I must say can't we all be friends. Orien FTW non believers. This doesnt make us weak it makes us unique.

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Originally Posted by Carpone

200hp arcanes shouldn't set foot in ToD because they're a liability. You probably didn't have any cold absorption besides Fire Shield either. Unequipped toons like you flagging on casual are part of the problem. You should be thanking the people that took the time to help you equip and readjust your character instead of lambasting them on the forums. You don't deserve their help.

I've done ToD with Favoritesoul. He's a solid leader and Orien would benefit greatly with more people like him leading raids.

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the error in judgement is believing his BS. He's flat out lying. tell me how you feel about him in 6 months

To all who gave useful input and adhered to what this post was originally about, TY

To all who wasted time reading this train wreck I apologize.

To any who care- come run with me and make your own decisions.

To anyone who tried to F with my rep here- ty for making a fool of yourself



And a special TY for any input on how to remove a post.

When you think about it, it is a shame that friends would let a game come between them.

Maybe that should have been a guild rule.

Hey Favored, dont let idiots like this get under your skin dude
He is a noob, it has already been established by other respected players on Orien, and is just whining for attention.
Why dont ya just get on your other toon and come and level with me and Titan again now ;) *gg*

Awesome bro! I will if i'm not to busy letting ToD groups die by my poor skills to kite shadows/heal party at the same time.