Mod 6 - Vista Launcher Information

Module 6 includes many improvements to the DDO launcher for better compatibility with Windows Vista. While the changes will allow for a much smoother experience when installing DDO for the first time, it may require some necessary configuration changes for those already running the game in Vista. To help alleviate any confusion or issues after the Module 6 update, we wanted to provide some additional instructions on what to do after you have patched to Module 6 on a Windows Vista machine.

After you have completed patching your client, the launcher will prompt you to allow it to restart. Upon restart, you may receive an error that states you cannot run this program as an administrator (due to the fact that previously, many people had to check the “Run as Administrator” option in order to get DDO to run on Vista). If you receive this error message, ensure that “TurbineLauncher.exe”, “TurbineInvoker.exe”, and “dndlauncher.exe” all have the option “Run as Administrator” unchecked:

1) Open Computer (or My Computer) in the Start Menu and browse to the program directory for DDO (the default path is C:\Program Files\Turbine\Dungeons and Dragons Online)
2) Right-click on the file “dndlauncher.exe” - depending on your system settings, you may not see the .exe at the end. If this is the case, just select the one that is labeled as an Application
3) Click Properties, and then select the Compatibility tab
4) Under Privilege Level, unselect “Run this program as an administrator” and then click OK
5) Repeat this process for the files “TurbineLauncher.exe” and “TurbineInvoker.exe”

As with any update, you may need to remove the current exceptions in your firewall, and then add exceptions for “TurbineLauncher.exe”, “TurbineInvoker.exe”, and “dndclient.exe”. If you have the game installed in the Program Files folder, you may need to leave “Run this program as an administrator” checked ONLY on dndclient.exe.

As always, Technical Support is available via chat, email, and the forums for any questions. We hope this information is helpful!

But Shouldn't it have been fixed for the Players That We ALREADY HAVE instead of making it easier for those that MIGHT come?
I mean we have already been put upon because of ya'll Lack of readiness for the peculaur aspects of VISTA. It (software update to compatibility of Vista) is Usally the responsibility of the Developers to insure that part. IE look at all the software/hardware problems still in effect from the original outpouring of Vista onto the market Those companies have had to upgrade or choose not to, and be left behind. Just a Thought Mind you, but I do see it has something YA"LL should fix instead of making something rigged up to excuse ya'lls lack of performance:) Thank You

I've been playing DDO for over a year. When I first got it I was running XP. Never had a problem other than the fact that it was an old computer and gameplay could have been better. Then I got a new computer with more ram and better everything to enhance my gameplay. While the gameplay itself is leaps and bounds better, the rest of my experience has been agonizingly painful because the new computer runs Vista.

Upon first installing the game it took me forever to figure out the 'run as administrator' issue. Then, every time they did maintenance or updates of any kind I had to completely uninstall the game and re-install. But wait! It gets even screwier. Here's what I had to do every update:

Uninstall the game
Re-install the game
Wait for a launcher update
Restart the launcher
Wait for it to start updating game data (these days those files number in the high 9000's)
When it starts the game data update, shut down the program
Restart the program
Then wait for it to do a game update of maybe 15 to 20 files
Then I could play

Today? Today was all new and different. Today I get to wait for all 9700 some odd files to update!

Oh joy is me!

Hey Cartouche. Shizima here.

I thought I found my way around that Vista admin's rights problem by right-clicking the launcher (from D&D files under "my computer") and changing the launcher's security clearance under Users and Trusted Installer to "full control". It has worked through the last few patches; but after patching today, I'm getting some strange "you do not have the correct version of the client installed" message. I guess I wasn't as smart as I hoped I was. Now I have to figure out how to get things back to working without uninstalling everything... grrrrrrrr.

I don't know what you all are doing wrong but I have run DDO fine with Vista since April

sure the General error message comes up but a simple right click and selecting a run as admin fixes that
the one and only issue I have had was on occasion it would allow running without the right clicking when I forgot and have had to update the latest patches..... no need to wait through it though as running as admin fixed it yet again


I know that has something to do with log in and permission but it is extrememly minor.... are you sure you are all using it properly because I have never even come close to having to reinstall just to play the game

worked like a charm, thank you very much.

*sheds tears for those who have been so burdened

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Toots

<cut>While the gameplay itself is leaps and bounds better, the rest of my experience has been agonizingly painful because the new computer runs Vista.<CUT>

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You are sort-of right, as Turbine could probably have put more resources into this and improved it some. But the real blame shouold be pointed at Microsoft. If being very (very) generous to Microsoft, one might say:

Windows XP = a used Lexus with a V6

Windows Vista = A brand new Lexus with a V8, but towing a trailer, and with an after-market security system that often locks up and won't let you drive it.

Really, much of this problem is not at all Turbine's fault.

I have the same problem and I have tried all the different suggestions given to get it to work and it still does not work on my computer that has Vista on it.

Please start a new thread if you have an issue. Be as detailed as possible with what is currently happening and what you have already done.

Look Turbine...I pay you guys money to sort this **** out and fix it before it becomes my problem. I can't get the new module to work on my Vista computer despite having 2 x dual-core AMD processors at 2.6ghz, 16 GB (yeah that's right GB) of Ram and 2 x NVIDIA 4500s. I've tried your administrator changers to client, invoker and the other one and they don't work. My error message is "you do not have the current version of the client installed." How do I unscrew this?

Bracken, a few of us are having the same issue as you. Discussion is currently in this thread: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=134274

Thanks...I'll redirect.

Esoitl,

I don't mean to be rude, but how can I be using it wrong? You click on a file icon to start a program. That's it. I DO have it set to run as admin. I don't get a general error message. It simply won't update the launcher. I get the dreaded red "X" unless I re-install the game. I went through the troubleshooting tips (downloading and replacing files, etc.) given me that were supposed to solve the problem , yet, it did not.

What may at least alleviate the problem somewhat is if I had a more current installation file. I'm no computer guru, but I'm not a rube either. I've had two friends more knowledgeable than I look at the problem too and they're stumped. Most people I know running Vista have had issues and they're almost all different. It's not always "user ineptness".

The fact is, Turbine has not given sufficient attention to this problem for a long time. My first request for help netted me nothing but a link to something that didn't help. My second request went ignored. I'm not asking that they do something about Vista itself, just that they provide a better troubleshooting guide for it. If I didn't love the game so much, I'd pull my monetary support and go elsewhere for fun.

Looks like I'll be reinstalling, myself. Not having a security issue, but a version issue/possible corrupt download. Won't be able to run with you (or anyone else) today. See you tomorrow!

ps. Thanks for mailing me that screencap.... looks good!

Erm mine keeps telling me I can't run the game with admin priviledges. My user account IS an admin on the box. How do I fix this beyond creating ANOTHER account on the system just to play this game with?

The ever helpful tech support team informed me that to run the game it must be run under a 'standard user account'. Which is BS since for the past 6 months it's run fine under my admin level account. The error coming up is generated by the application itself. There is no reason whatsoever to have this file refuse to be run under admin priveledges. Now in order to run the game I either have to demote my account to a standard user account or create a 'spare' account on the computer just to run the game.

To put it bluntly: This is unacceptable.

I'm having the same "Error You Do Not Have Current Version of Client Installed" problem. I'm trying all of the suggestions, to no avail.

I'm looking at the knowledge base download Yeti provided and I'm curious as to why there are 2 choices.. Standard Resolution or High Resolution.
If I choose the Standard Resolution will I not be able to change it in my options during gameplay to high res? Just want to know, because it takes long enough to go through one installation. I'd like to get it right the first(?) time around.

For now I'm trying the install I currently have, again.

Good luck to the rest of you and if you find a fix.. share with the class :)

So I installed DDO on my Vista laptop. I did the whole Administrator thing and whoopie! It worked like a charm (it actually runs pretty well on my Dell Inspiron 640m/1405).

I installed it on my desktop and did ALL the same things and I could never geit it to run. I finally had to re-install it to my newly created 'Special Program Files" folder and it's been up and running ever since.

{sigh}

I have tried all the admin privilege fixes suggested and i still get the, cannot run as administrator error. (The boxes for run as admin were never checked in the first place.) I have tried the fixes posted, anything else i can try? I put the folder on shared and created a guest account, for some reason there i get "updater failed to intialized," This update has made my game unplayable. Please help. Thanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sneax

I have tried all the admin privilege fixes suggested and i still get the, cannot run as administrator error. (The boxes for run as admin were never checked in the first place.) I have tried the fixes posted, anything else i can try? I put the folder on shared and created a guest account, for some reason there i get "updater failed to intialized," This update has made my game unplayable. Please help. Thanks.

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Reinstall the game only this time don't let it install in the \Program Files folder. Make a different one. On my machne it's "\Special Program Files". Vista "guards" the Program Files folder and by installing it elsewhere you can bypass this. Good luck!

After downloading the game and purchasing the high priced Turbine Account to play, I had a general error message and the game would not update at all.

I attempted the "run as admin" fix on the compatibility tab of properties... noticed I didn't have "Turbineinvoker.exe" or "TurbineLauncher.exe".

Ran a Google on "Stormreach patches" and pulled up the first site with a patch.

Downloaded the patch (something like mod 5 to mod 6) at 165 megs.
Installed the patch.

Then got the "Cannot run as admin", so I unchecked the boxes on the launcher, and client file.

Now, double-clicking the launcher gets me to the update...

Updating showed around 40+ files to update... got to 99&#37; then gave some error message and the launcher turned off after I clicked "OK" (what choice did I have, right?)...

When I double-clicked on the launcher to start again, now the update shows 9760 files to update. I noticed someone made reference to having to uninstall and re-install and gave the 9,000 file mark... remember, though, that I just downloaded the game this evening, so I expected a large amount of updating to take place on the first go around.

If this doesn't work, I'll make the "Special Program Files" Folder as suggested and transfer the files directly from "Program Files" to try to bypass any issues with Windows Guardian.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Even with transferring files, had the problems.

Uninstalled, and then re-installed directly to "Special Program Files".
Did not use the patch update.
Only gave me one hiccup stating that I could not run as admin.

Restarted the launcher and am at 1,400 files of now 10,653 to update...

I was seriously going to buy this game as I got a new laptop that is 4x faster than my desktop. It runs Vista. Your **** game does not seem to support vista.

I can't even get the launcher to run. hahahahah ****** programmers. Dunno if its from M$ or DDO programmers.

Anway, after reading for 10 minutes it appears if I bend over backwards and break my spine, I can get it to run. But even then, next time you patch, I'll have to run through that again.

I think its not worth it

lets me first start off by saying this:

THIS IS NOT A TURBINE/DDO ISSUE!

I have seen almost EVERY ONLINE game whether it be WoW to DDO, to LOTRO, to EVE-Online and the rest, EVERY SINGLE ONE has people talking about issues with patching/running the game etc.

It all stems from this nice little thing that Microsoft put into Vista called: User Account Control.

What "User Account Control" does is severely restrict what a user account can do. If you do any sort of editing with files you'll notice almost ALL readme's, or help documentation say to have the program/whatever "run with administrator priv's".

Just in case someone wants to turn off User Account Control, goto Control Panel, then (green text)User Accounts and Family Safety then click (green text)User Accounts, and finally click "Turn User Account Control on or off".

I am an advanced computer user so I don't like windows nagging me with every little change I make, etc. If you turn it off, I can almost guarantee you will never see another issue of the sort again. I have played almost every online game (yes I know I'm sad) without ANY issues at all. I'm running Vista 64-Bit Ultimate, so I'm in the same boat you guys are as far as the O/S goes.

I just bought a Toshiba Satellite A205 S5814 that susposedly has a IGMA X3100. I downloaded the game fine, but when I tried to launch the screen goes black and gives me Game Error 122 graphics not supported by the device. I don't understand why, everything I've read has stated I should hav no problem running this game. Somebody please help.

The x3100 only has a virtual enabled hardware t&l (meaning it is only available through a driver update, which oddly enough makes it not hardware). This is only available in the newest driver from Intel, so it is possible that the manufacturer laptop driver has not yet upgraded to the newest driver from Intel.

bottom line is that turbine and microsoft dont care what we think. if they did there would at least be some response in the form of a tangible apology for the terrible service we have been paying for. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yeti

Module 6 includes many improvements to the DDO launcher for better compatibility with Windows Vista. While the changes will allow for a much smoother experience when installing DDO for the first time, it may require some necessary configuration changes for those already running the game in Vista. To help alleviate any confusion or issues after the Module 6 update, we wanted to provide some additional instructions on what to do after you have patched to Module 6 on a Windows Vista machine.

After you have completed patching your client, the launcher will prompt you to allow it to restart. Upon restart, you may receive an error that states you cannot run this program as an administrator (due to the fact that previously, many people had to check the “Run as Administrator” option in order to get DDO to run on Vista). If you receive this error message, ensure that “TurbineLauncher.exe”, “TurbineInvoker.exe”, and “dndlauncher.exe” all have the option “Run as Administrator” unchecked:

1) Open Computer (or My Computer) in the Start Menu and browse to the program directory for DDO (the default path is C:\Program Files\Turbine\Dungeons and Dragons Online)
2) Right-click on the file “dndlauncher.exe” - depending on your system settings, you may not see the .exe at the end. If this is the case, just select the one that is labeled as an Application
3) Click Properties, and then select the Compatibility tab
4) Under Privilege Level, unselect “Run this program as an administrator” and then click OK
5) Repeat this process for the files “TurbineLauncher.exe” and “TurbineInvoker.exe”

As with any update, you may need to remove the current exceptions in your firewall, and then add exceptions for “TurbineLauncher.exe”, “TurbineInvoker.exe”, and “dndclient.exe”. If you have the game installed in the Program Files folder, you may need to leave “Run this program as an administrator” checked ONLY on dndclient.exe.

As always, Technical Support is available via chat, email, and the forums for any questions. We hope this information is helpful!

---

* Where do you download these updates?

Long story short: I recently moved to Korea and bought a new PC: LC XPion, which meets the recommended sys requirements, and had Windows Vista preinstalled. The first problem: it's in Korean language. So I tried and failed to switch to Windows XP (couldn't locate device drivers online). So after monkeying with the language defaults, I got online with Vista and downloaded the DDO client, standard res. version.

There were no error messages during the download.

Then after opening the game I received some error messages. Thinking that this was the uncheck "Run as Admin" fix, I think I found that in Korean, but now it keeps trying to restart on the log-in page with the green check marks. The error message is:

Self Patch

"Could not patch file "TurbineInvoker.exe", error 32: (followed by another sentence in Korean).

Anyone help me with this one?

Many thanks,

N.

If you receive this error message, ensure that “TurbineLauncher.exe”, “TurbineInvoker.exe”, and “dndlauncher.exe” all have the option “Run as Administrator” unchecked:

1) Open Computer (or My Computer) in the Start Menu and browse to the program directory for DDO (the default path is C:\Program Files\Turbine\Dungeons and Dragons Online)
2) Right-click on the file “dndlauncher.exe” - depending on your system settings, you may not see the .exe at the end. If this is the case, just select the one that is labeled as an Application
3) Click Properties, and then select the Compatibility tab
4) Under Privilege Level, unselect “Run this program as an administrator” and then click OK
5) Repeat this process for the files “TurbineLauncher.exe” and “TurbineInvoker.exe”

As with any update, you may need to remove the current exceptions in your firewall, and then add exceptions for “TurbineLauncher.exe”, “TurbineInvoker.exe”, and “dndclient.exe”. If you have the game installed in the Program Files folder, you may need to leave “Run this program as an administrator” checked ONLY on dndclient.exe.


Hello,

I'm the guy in Korea. I just installed Windows Vista IN ENGLISH : ) on my new PC. I downloaded the DDO program from the DDOclient and tried using the Set Up to install the game. I got a message at the end of the install about "TurbineInvoker.exe" again, which was followed by the three choices: abort, retry, ignore. I aborted it and tried installing again. Then I got the error message, you cannot "Run as an Administrator." So I followed the above instructions and found that in the Compatibility tab there was NO box checked "Run as an Administrator." It was unchecked. So I checked it, then unselected and clicked approve.

I'm sure (since I can read the windows in English this time) that my firewall and browsing security options were all turned off.

I'm witness progress. I read in another thread that a guy turned off his User Account Control, and that seems to have unblocked something for me. I'm now updating game data and seeing green check marks : )

Hope to be kissing the ground of Stormreach soon!

Hail Mortal Voyage.

N.

Windows Vista Home Prem 64-bit.
4 GB RAM
Intel E8400
8800 GTS 640MB

I had to do a reformat and fresh install of OS and all drivers. Did that.

Downloaded the latest DDO client (hi-res) from this site. Twice it failed with corrupt files, but that's for a different forum message. I finally installed from my original DVD. It installed fine. Did not change any Admin settings, just launched the game. At the third item (where it updates the program, it ran through the items and then said it needed to restart the game (or launcher) and did that.

Here's the problem: when it came back, it gave me the error that it couldn't launch the TurbineInvoker.exe because that process was already being used by another program (or something similar, sorry, didn't screen shot it). It gives an "OK" button, which closes the program and retries opening it, same as before. Same error. It would do this forever, with no easy way to stop it. I had to close the launcher window before it could get to that part again.

I finally solved it by, opening Task Manager, under Processes, and seeing that indeed, TurbineInvoker.exe was running twice. I closed them all down and tried it. It took me a couple of attempts, because it would leave one open during the transition, then open a new one on resuming. Eventually, I got one of them closed in time, so that it got past that error.

Yeah! Course, I then had the 12,### files to update, but eventually it all patched and it seems to work fine.

I did try all the "check/uncheck" run as Admin options for all the listed programs, like this thread said. They had started all unchecked, so really nothing wrong there.

I'm good now, but I wanted support to see this issue. Very frustrating. Thanks!

EDIT: Same issue in this thread and about four responses above.
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=141476

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SpankyOTG

I finally solved it by, opening Task Manager, under Processes, and seeing that indeed, TurbineInvoker.exe was running twice. I closed them all down and tried it. It took me a couple of attempts, because it would leave one open during the transition, then open a new one on resuming. Eventually, I got one of them closed in time, so that it got past that error.

---

I had to use the same solution.

I had downloaded the normal client from the website and selected launch ddo from the installer. Then got an error about not running in admin mode. I suspect turbine launcher didn't unload at that point but I can't be sure.

Killing DDO and the 'extra' turbine launcher processes allowed it to update.

Why isn't it possible to download the abolute latest client from the site? Why do I have to spend 8 hours downloading the client, then another hour or so patching it? It probably would have been faster to install from the CD's.

I got mine to work by turning off the User Account Controls on Vista. After turning off the Firewall and other protections, the UAC seemed to be the remaining hurdle.

Playing in a permadeath guild now on Argonnessen (Mortal Voyage) and happy as a clam : )

n.

yep, turning off UAC fixed it for me as well

That was pretty dang frustrating.Had to do the End Processing thing.Tried everything else, but that was the only thing that worked.thx

Okay, this isn't a Vista issue, as I have had this running for many months with Vista, but it only recently stopped working. I did as instructed and removed the "Run as Admin" that I had originally set, and have insured that the three applications involved are set as exceptions in the firewall.

If this were a Vista issue, it would have never worked on Vista, and it has prior to this patch.

Something in patch 6 broke this with Vista, regardless of what its intention was. DoD online needs to fix this issue.

What exactly is the error you are getting? Also you need to remove and then re-add the files to the firewall. When we update the game the date/size of the files changes so some firewalls think it is a malicious intrusion.

From Sithik: "It all stems from this nice little thing that Microsoft put into Vista called: User Account Control.

What "User Account Control" does is severely restrict what a user account can do. If you do any sort of editing with files you'll notice almost ALL readme's, or help documentation say to have the program/whatever "run with administrator priv's".

Just in case someone wants to turn off User Account Control, goto Control Panel, then (green text)User Accounts and Family Safety then click (green text)User Accounts, and finally click "Turn User Account Control on or off".

This worked for me with mod7 running Vista newly updated on 8/8/08. It took some hunting to find where to turn "user account control" off but once I did DDO worked fine. If anyone does have to re-install, I would suggest using a program called "deletedr" to do it when Vista won't let you delete a file.

for me ... once i got Vista the first thing I did was turn OFF UAC... once I did that Vista ran faster, stable, less prone to freezing up. For Me Vista is far better than XP, but only after the UAC is turned off. From what I have read here and other blogs/forums, this is the biggest problem with casual users; they just don't know that you could turn this off.

On a side note... Vista hates games (online or other) that are not labeled for Vista... if you have a game that is not for Vista putting it in a other folder when installing it will fix this problem also.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ebuddy

Reinstall the game only this time don't let it install in the \Program Files folder. Make a different one. On my machne it's "\Special Program Files". Vista "guards" the Program Files folder and by installing it elsewhere you can bypass this. Good luck!

---

I just got a new laptop today with Vista Premium installed. Should I install all of the applications I want to use from XP into a "Special Program Files" folder?

So far, all I've installed is Mozilla Firefox and AVG Free. Both apps defaulted to the Program Files(x86) folder when installed.

Well is this game worth all the hassles , my game time is limited but waiting for files to download then it stops down loading gotta wait for a download to move onto the next part of the game just isnt good , fair enough its free(I spose) im running vista with a high speed connection done all the add ons patches etc.... still cant log in hope I dont have to uninstal or **** like that.

Download it overnight. No need to be waiting on something during the day when you can have your computer do it while you sleep.

FYI, when it looks like the download has stalled (an asinine flaw to have not fixed by now), it is purely a graphical glitch. The download is still happening. It's just the report of progress that is failing. So leave it alone for a few hours and come back then you have basically a $40 game for free.

If you like this type of game, it's worth it. It's one of the best of it's genre.

i have a problem,i'm running vista and after i install the game,it wont launch.It shows a kind of an error that says its not compatible and it crashes.It doesnt update.Can someone tell what to do?

If it helps, all I had to do was go into program files, right-click on dndlauncher and click on "run as admin." (which was selected already) to prompt an immediate download.

Ok i just tried running the D&D launcher to trigger updates and i get an error message stating this in the details:

Code:

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System.ArgumentNullException: Value cannot be null.
Parameter name: stream
  at System.IO.StreamReader..ctor(Stream stream, Encoding encoding, Boolean detectEncodingFromByteOrderMarks, Int32 bufferSize)
  at System.IO.StreamReader..ctor(Stream stream, Encoding encoding, Boolean detectEncodingFromByteOrderMarks)
  at System.Web.Services.Protocols.RequestResponseUtils.ReadResponse(WebResponse response, Stream stream)
  at System.Web.Services.Protocols.RequestResponseUtils.CreateResponseExceptionString(WebResponse response, Stream stream)
  at System.Web.Services.Protocols.SoapHttpClientProtocol.ReadResponse(SoapClientMessage message, WebResponse response, Stream responseStream, Boolean asyncCall)
  at System.Web.Services.Protocols.SoapHttpClientProtocol.EndInvoke(IAsyncResult asyncResult)
  at com.turbine.launcher.gls.GlobalLoginSystemAuthenticationService.EndLoginAccount(IAsyncResult asyncResult)
  at com.turbine.launcher.Services.SOAPAuthenticator.EndAuthenticate(IAsyncResult ar)

---

What does this mean and how do i correct this?

p.s.
I just tried with the Turbine launcher and it proceeded to the server selection then crashed.

Isn't the update supposed to have finished by now? How do we download the patch?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ebuddy

Reinstall the game only this time don't let it install in the \Program Files folder. Make a different one. On my machne it's "\Special Program Files". Vista "guards" the Program Files folder and by installing it elsewhere you can bypass this. Good luck!

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what a clever approach. I've been trying to play this game for a week now making several attempts and nada. I even have my bf helping me with this and he knows so much more about computers than i do. we've tampered with router settings, firewall, the actual file itself (the directions shown at the beginning of this thread) and nothing. I'm confident this will work since like you said 'VISTA guards' the programs files folder'. I'll post bk to let know if it worked or not.

can we manual download the update ? using XP " NOT vista "



IF I HAVE TO RE DOWNLOAD ENTIRE GAME I WILL DELETE IT & CLOSE VIP ACCOUNT , sorry I am just a guy that enjoys this game NOT a techy please help thanks boodie :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yeti

As with any update, you may need to remove the current exceptions in your firewall, and then add exceptions for “TurbineLauncher.exe”, “TurbineInvoker.exe”, and “dndclient.exe”. If you have the game installed in the Program Files folder, you may need to leave “Run this program as an administrator” checked ONLY on dndclient.exe.

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I was quite scared when after following your advice my client stopped running!

As soon as i set "run as admin" to the other three apps eveything became normal again (if not better) :)