Quote:
Originally Posted by MaeveTuohy
The only thing they want from me is money. And if they are offering this HW as some type of fix for bow users, then they wasted all the resources on it, as many I've talked don't see ANY value in it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaeveTuohy
The only thing they want from me is money. And if they are offering this HW as some type of fix for bow users, then they wasted all the resources on it, as many I've talked don't see ANY value in it.
Poor forgotten Harper would like to have a word with you. "Weakest and wonkiest tree" is its rightful title, and you shan't take it from one that has held it for so long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacon_Burger
This tree looks and feels a bit stronger than Feydark.
gtbh ... the more you analyze this tree ... the more OP it becomes. Literally ... AOE ranged attacks (with critical multipliers), trance, damage not mitigated by MRR, escapability (DDoor), layered defenses (displacement), perma haste, critical multipliers, abundant step. Nearly any class you want will synergize with this and rule ranged combat.
Literally this tree is so OP ... within 2 weeks of release, you'll see the forum clamoring for nerfs the same way with inquisitive.
It's missing double shot action boost in tier 2. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tlorrd
Those CON/Dodge/Natural Armor bonuses don't matter. You can be capped on Dodge without enhancements, +3 CON is not necessary as long as you're not getting one shot. You can get Natural Armor from Barkskin pots, but it's not needed. Deflect Arrows is your primary damage avoidance as an archer. +5 Wisdom is +2 Will save, not a big deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by elvesunited
You conveniently overlooked 6% doubleshot and 6% hit from Wood Elf. You know, actual DPS enhancements.
Only if you want to do less damage, which is antithetical to a DPS class.Quote:
There's a lot there for a shifter archer.
Solid suggestion from a flavor perspective, but there is no "all outsider" FE feat. Devs would have to apply each different Outsider FE, each of which would apply +2 FE dmg, which is too much benefit for 2 AP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowperson
I know it’s a bit late, but consider some adjustment and improvements to this tree:
CORES – Overall, new mechanic that is very week on the beginning but become ok later. In my suggestion I will concentrate in Archer Focus mostly, as the dangerous but viable tactics, that now is not used by many.
- +1 Spot and Listen and -2AP to one MARKED one target is very weak, even on level 1. Could only compete with Harper first Core. No one will take is as the first spended AP. Improvements suggestion: +1 damage with bow or add Combine Conjure Arrow Sla.
- 4 AC – 10% fortification, +3 Max Dex Bonus. It’s better, but still very weak. Again, still only AP filler, that people won't take until later Cores (if any). Improvements suggestion: Deflect Arrow feat like in Vistani tree but only activate when in Archer Focus stance.
- When you reach 6 level, you will take this Core because of free Haste. And also to start to use Marked button, especially that you have another abilities to utilize that ability (from Tiers). No need of improvements.
- Average Core, nothing special. If you use Marked technique a lot, that another debuff is ok. If not, then it’s weak. +3 max Dodge sounds ok, but you try to kill targets from distance, not close combat. Improvements suggestion: Aimed Shot ability as an active part of the Core.
- DD is ok. It's save some time in some quests. -20% movements speed is great for SOLO. But in reality, as for the 18 level Core, it’s not impressive. I would definitely add here something special, that defines Horizon Walker. Improvements suggestion: Something like additional stack (+5) in Archer Focus stance
- Right now, after changes, this Core is for Rangers Only. IMO what should be done: +2 to all ability scores, +2 maximum Manyshot charge AND +10% doubleshoot with Archer Focus stance should be as a base of this ability. And then multiselecting between: (1) Favored Enemies Marked Targets (mostly for rangers) OR (2) +20 Ranged Power and additional stacks (+5) in Archer Focus stance.
TIER 1:
- It’s ok, AP filler, one active Bow attack. Nothing special, nothing fancy. Just ok.
TIER 2:
- Walker Training I – ok, standard filler, that add a little DPS.
- Take the Opening – 100% HP is impractical. Fine for SOLO, almost useless for GROUPS. It should be lower to 90% or 95% and it’s ok.
- Protection from Evil and Good - 2 first ranks are useless. You will put on yourself that kind of protection (+2 AC and Resistance), and grants bonuses against ALL enemies without spending precious AP. Leave only 3rd rank or improve two first ranks with word: stacking.
- FE – ok filler if you collect FE feats.
- Skilled navigator – useless filler, but something MUST be useless isn’t it?
TIER 3:
- No Step Missed – Good Dexterity trance. With charges mechanic that I don’t like, but whatever…
- Two Places At Once - Not useful ability. When you use Manyshot or Scattershot, you want to kill enemies, not gain any defenses. I guess 90% of the time, that Displacements will be a waste of AP. But require more time then Lammania testing.
- Hunter’s Focus - Great ability to gain more stack of Archer’s Focus.
- Tenacious Hunter - filler with additional, situational damage.
- Ability Score - Standard filler.
TIER 4:
- Walker Training II – again, ok, standard filler.
- Corner the Quarry - tactical Bow Attack. It’s ok.
- Walker’s Guidance - Looks ok, but IMO it’s impractical. It’ could be removed completely with no lose for that Tree. And replace with, for example, Killer (from DWS) ability or some BOSS Bow attacks ability.
- Scattershot - 1 arrow on 3 different targets. Alternate version of Manyshoot. Cool ability, but completely unexpected on the Single Damage oriented tree. IMO here should be Multiselector between this and Passive +3 charges on Manyshoots.
- Ability Score – Standard filler.
TIER 5:
- Faywild Attunement - Standard T5 ability nowadays. With some additional ability for multiclassing. Very Good.
- Banish the Quarry - Some damage from time to time. Not very impressive as the T5 ability. But it’s useful on lower levels. Improvements suggestion: Combine this with Powershot.
- Misty Step - Like other Abundant Steps ability – no one will complain, but it’s locks one T5 ability, that should be just better.
- Powershot – Additional damage for Criticals on charged abilities. Again not very impressive. Damage can be good, but you first must have charges with Manyshot and then critically hit. If you used all charges, then you must wait 12 second to new one. As T5 ability it’s just weak. Improvements suggestion: Combine this with Banish the Quarry
- Improved Archer Focus – same as in DWS. Same cons and pros. For me it’s good ability.
- What should be done about T5 – combine Banish the Quarry and Powershot, rename it and made it cost 2 AP. And in free slot, add ability that boost defenses while in Archer Focus stance, something like 10% stacking incorporeality while in Archer Focus stance, Deflecting Arrow works every 2 second now, and first melee hit reduce incoming damage by 50% and activate Radiant Forcefield for 6 second.
Since the bow update I have made a DWS bow build, kensai bow build, and EK/AA Elf bow build, and I find all of them lack power while leveling. Bows are just too weak to clear challenging dungeons at any reasonable speed. You have either the bad choice of playing at reasonable speed but playing in trivial content, or taking forever in challenging content. The tree doesn't matter, this is as good as any of them. Bows themselves suck too badly.
The changes look better for sure and this does look like a nice single target dps tree for bows, but for my playstyle (IPS with paralyze/fear) I am going to continue to run a ranger/ftr/monk mix to maximize wis and enchantment DCs. Maybe some day they will support IPS better than it has been treated lately.
After trying out this tree I'm disappointed. I expected to not like the mark mechanic and single target focus but I was hopeful that scattershot would be useful. It's not, as it suffers badly from arrows disappearing into the aether. I thought manyshots performance was bad but this is a whole new level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tilomere
Quote:
Originally Posted by anticlimax
I tested 3 of my ranged builds from levels 1 thru 24ish.
The best so far is Elf AA/Tempest w/ kopesh/ daggs/ or ss's. Moderately equipped +8 tome's. No more than T2 HW in ANY combination of my variants.
I wound up dropping more in Vistani, Falconry for what felt like twice as much damage without going past dex trance.
The HW T5 build just feels and plays too wonky.
On tabletop, HW'a HAVE and USE the special TWF attack Blink of an Eye, The ONE attack HW needs in DDO and it was left out.
We have Displacer Beasts, and "Blinking" attacks, RIGHT?
Horizon Walker needs a T3 and T4 special TWF attack w/ the same specs used for above named attacks/ abilities.
Refine and rework the wonky multiple arrow attacks.
All of the timers and cooldowns w/ all the clickies along with lack-luster attacks & damage makes HW a REAL DISSAPOINTMENT
And 1 more thing to add.
An SLA w/ Shadow Walk spell & Abundant step combined.
The increase in run speed wouldn't affect any stacking stat's either :rolleyes:
Coco, my ranger do not like this. To use this I need to have shots opening shot, take the opening, cornering the quarry, and then the fourth shot, Banish the Quarry if my ranger is lucky to have a good enough listening score. So, a total of 4 shots to kill an extra-planar creature. By the time the ranger gets to the 4th shot, that extra-planar creature might as well be very dead... as in Star Trek, we quote Dr McCoy, "It's dead, Jim!".Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocomajobo
Next to a Deep Gnome Illusionist, that extra-planar creature is gone with one shot of PK, what w/ 5 spell points in rank 3? Why can't we have the same thing here for Banishment, except the DC can be d20+character level+listen skill...
Personally I do NOT want my screen changing color for 5s every time I use Abundant Step.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacon_Burger
YMMV but the Shadow Walk effect is pretty annoying to me, and despite really liking run-speed stuff I generally avoid it for that reason.
Also IMO move speed is one of the strongest combat stats, it's just not mentioned as much because you usually don't have options around it. Melees getting in faster, ranged toons kiting better, and all toons being able to avoid more fights = very impactful.
Two Places At Once: When you use Manyshot or Scattershot, you gain Displacement for 12 seconds. (2AP)
While this looks nice on paper, it becomes less so the skulls go up in reaper.
Would be appreciated if it has some stacking with the normal displacement spell and seeing it only lasts for 12 secs I shouldn't be a lousy 5% (50% would be breaking elite).
Walker's Guidance: You and targeted ally gain Evasion, Improved Evasion, and +5 to Saving Throws vs. Traps for 12 seconds. 60 second cooldown. (1AP)
I see what is tried to be accomplished here, yet it is a universal tree so restricting armor type is remarkable (pun intended ;p).
How about uncanny dodge and improved uncanny dodge instead for 2 action points each?
Make it aura based and triggered on the same thing as Two Places At Once and it is a winner.
And there is Misty Step. This was asked for and does seem to belong in this tree.
It would be way more cooler if you can appear behind a selected target (regardless of line of sight) facing the back of the target.
Probably impossible to achieve right now, but hey, if I don't share my dreams it will never be realized.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13
So, you like HW as is?
Go criticize the crappy tree they introduced, not me.
> SteelStar — Today at 12:56 PM
> Worth noting: The team elected to keep the Preview 2 capstone, and we're past the point where I could
> realistically change it for U50 at this point also
I guess that's that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpone
Thanks for the info.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpone
How would you build paralyze AA into HW?
Also the only tier 5 ability in the tree that interests me is Powershot. This is what really places Tier 5 HW above tier 5 DWS, correct? Is there a damage base that would change this? (As DWS gets 40% doubleshot, to HW 10%)
(Misty step sounds cool, but cant really see myself using it in practice)
Thanks.
I wouldn't. HW + DWS is much higher DPS than HW + AA. If you really need a paralyze, then it's available in T4 against a Marked Target. Remember, Marked Targets also have -20% run speed now, and you have Misty Step to create distance.Quote:
Originally Posted by CrackedIce