Stone of Change - Eldritch Rituals Cookbook

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Originally Posted by Ilandrya

To start with, not only are there 484 possible outcomes for weapons and 484 possible outcomes for accessories, but with unsuccessful ones the screenshot doesn't show what the third element used was, so each "fail" will be based word of mouth rather than a screenshot. Lot of room for error there unfortunately.

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I sincerely believe that the upgrade paths are going to be limited to Focus A + Focus B + Focus A -OR- Focus A + Focus A + Focus A. Every other combination, e.g. Focus A + Focus A + Focus B -OR- Focus A + Focus B + Focus B has resulted in nothing. To me this is a clear indicator that other such combinations will result in nothing.

Also, I mentioned it before but there is a limit to the number of uber effects that the Devs can put on items, going the route listed above there is a result of 36 possibilities which is already A LOT. And, I'll throw this out there again since it hasn't been disproven yet...the Devs DID mention a "special" upgrade route that was not related to Focus type which I believe may end up being based on Gem Type.

Edit: Here is a list of what I believe are the other possible options for upgrading based on gem type:
Focus Type | Essence Type | Gem Type 1 | Gem Type 2 | Gem Type 3
Air | Ethereal | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Earth | Ethereal | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Fire | Ethereal | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Negative | Ethereal | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Positive | Ethereal | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Water | Ethereal | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Air | Material | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Earth | Material | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Fire | Material | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Negative | Material | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Positive | Material | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Water | Material | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition

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Originally Posted by Agarwaen

Perhaps I have missed something someone has crafted, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that pos/neg/air will not give a special result at the end. Thanks to gpk we know pos/air/neg doesn't give a special tier 3 result, but as far as I know that doesn't mean that pos/neg/air will turn out the same. Doesn't someone still need to test pos/neg/elemental, or did I miss something?

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Despite how badly kargon last attempt at craftaming turn out (at least until silly bug get fixed ;)) Kargon are 4-5 ingredimients away from test pos/neg/fire on a necklamace. Kargon hopefumully let know in next day or two how goes.

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Originally Posted by apious1

I sincerely believe that the upgrade paths are going to be limited to Focus A + Focus B + Focus A -OR- Focus A + Focus A + Focus A. Every other combination, e.g. Focus A + Focus A + Focus B -OR- Focus A + Focus B + Focus B has resulted in nothing. To me this is a clear indicator that other such combinations will result in nothing.

Also, I mentioned it before but there is a limit to the number of uber effects that the Devs can put on items, going the route listed above there is a result of 36 possibilities which is already A LOT. And, I'll throw this out there again since it hasn't been disproven yet...the Devs DID mention a "special" upgrade route that was not related to Focus type which I believe may end up being based on Gem Type.

Edit: Here is a list of what I believe are the other possible options for upgrading based on gem type:
Focus Type | Essence Type | Gem Type 1 | Gem Type 2 | Gem Type 3
Air | Ethereal | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Earth | Ethereal | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Fire | Ethereal | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Negative | Ethereal | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Positive | Ethereal | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Water | Ethereal | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Air | Material | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Earth | Material | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Fire | Material | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Negative | Material | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Positive | Material | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Water | Material | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition

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if you move along this path, it would make sense that strengthening the same element you should use escalation (as it gets stronger). for the existencial stalemate, you should use opposition because they are in conflict. and for dominion, you use it for the one that you want to take precedence.

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Originally Posted by Aeneas

Luckily, ions come in two flavors, pos and neg. :D Neg are technically anions, but same difference.


And the maul above should become everbright when it gets aspect of ooze.

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Yeah but in this game positive and negative are not about charge but about the direction in which the energy flows. Positive spells add enery to things (healing, statpoints, etc), while negative energy spells drain them. Just doent seem like a good idea to drain the energy from the lightning :D

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Originally Posted by apious1

I sincerely believe that the upgrade paths are going to be limited to Focus A + Focus B + Focus A -OR- Focus A + Focus A + Focus A. Every other combination, e.g. Focus A + Focus A + Focus B -OR- Focus A + Focus B + Focus B has resulted in nothing. To me this is a clear indicator that other such combinations will result in nothing.

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Two problems. 1) The only ABB that I have seen here is Neg Pos Pos ... which is sketchy in its own right since you threw off the balance.

2) While its possible that tier 3 is dependent on the order of the first 2, I doubt it. I think its more a matter of what would enhance aspect of lightning best or what would enhance aspect of magma best.

The the "something" we havent discovered about tier3 upgrading has me intruiged, there are just too many possibilties in that to speculate.

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Originally Posted by apious1

I sincerely believe that the upgrade paths are going to be limited to Focus A + Focus B + Focus A -OR- Focus A + Focus A + Focus A. Every other combination, e.g. Focus A + Focus A + Focus B -OR- Focus A + Focus B + Focus B has resulted in nothing. To me this is a clear indicator that other such combinations will result in nothing.

Also, I mentioned it before but there is a limit to the number of uber effects that the Devs can put on items, going the route listed above there is a result of 36 possibilities which is already A LOT. And, I'll throw this out there again since it hasn't been disproven yet...the Devs DID mention a "special" upgrade route that was not related to Focus type which I believe may end up being based on Gem Type.

Edit: Here is a list of what I believe are the other possible options for upgrading based on gem type:
Focus Type | Essence Type | Gem Type 1 | Gem Type 2 | Gem Type 3
Air | Ethereal | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Earth | Ethereal | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Fire | Ethereal | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Negative | Ethereal | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Positive | Ethereal | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Water | Ethereal | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Air | Material | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Earth | Material | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Fire | Material | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Negative | Material | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Positive | Material | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition
Water | Material | Dominion | Escalation | Opposition

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I agree that the number of effects will be much smaller, it's just a matter of finding out the patterns that work and those that don't. I have my suspicions about them, but have too little by way of examples to state anything for certain at this time. I need to see an elemental A,B,B focus pattern first before I can go any further.

I did see where a dev mentioned about a special upgrade route, but did not see anything about it not being related to focuses.

On another note, I don't know if anyone else has noticed this or not, but the power shards can go in your trinket slot. I'm wondering if embued shards when placed in your trinket slot do anything, either by themselves, or in combination with other green steel items you have equipped.

I'm also wondering if anyone has tried using more than one embued shard when upgrading, and if anyone has tried the addy ritual on the power shards.

With the green steel item, power cell, and shard there are still two more slots open during the upgrade process.

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Originally Posted by Kargon

Despite how badly kargon last attempt at craftaming turn out (at least until silly bug get fixed ;)) Kargon are 4-5 ingredimients away from test pos/neg/fire on a necklamace. Kargon hopefumully let know in next day or two how goes.

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I really look forward to what you can discover taking the Existential Stalemate and adding FIRE!

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Originally Posted by Riggs

It appears that according to Eladrins posts, you would only get a quasi/para tier 3 effect if you reinforce the first 2 effects, you cant get magma 2 if you go air or positive for tier 3 for example. (and that would make a tri-para, or quasi/para - which was stated as not having any special upgrades)

So - the air/land, or pos/neg tier 2 balance/opposition effect is only at tier 2. To get a special tier 3 effect you now have to reinforce either the first or second effect - not add a 3rd different element.

So air/positive/air, or positive/air/air will get you something big, but air/positive/fire will not, nor pos/neg/air.

You will get the initial bonus, but not an extra special one.

he said going all 1 type will be the weaker of the types. So we should be seeing a larger special set of effects with combinations like earth/fire/earth, fire/earth earth, pos/earth/pos, neg/pos/neg etc, than just all three earth or positive.

Anyone looking to mix 3 elements I might recommend first trying to reinforce one of the initial two. Personally my ranger will be trying a weapon with air/positive, then either air or positive again depending if anything is posted by the time I get large ingredients. Maybe a holy thunderclap on a 20 or something.

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Your wrong about the pos/neg/air, we have not seen this and I would bet all my equip that it makes something cool.
We HAVE seen neg/pos/neg and that resulted in nothing, so there is a flaw in your logic right there. We have no idea what air/pos/air does but I expect, "You got air in my lightning" will be the result. And that doesn't sound good. air/pos/water, "You got water in my lightning!" sounds a little bit better.
You may be right about the earth/fire/earth, fire/earth/earth... those are para elementals and elements work differently than pos/neg. We know neg/pos/neg does not make anything, it would be more than safe to assume any similar combo would not work, pos/neg/pos, neg/pos/pos, pos/neg/neg all will result in "failures".

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Originally Posted by Hence

Your wrong about the pos/neg/air, we have not seen this and I would bet all my equip that it makes something cool.
We HAVE seen neg/pos/neg and that resulted in nothing, so there is a flaw in your logic right there. We have no idea what air/pos/air does but I expect, "You got air in my lightning" will be the result. And that doesn't sound good. air/pos/water, "You got water in my lightning!" sounds a little bit better.
You may be right about the earth/fire/earth, fire/earth/earth... those are para elementals and elements work differently than pos/neg. We know neg/pos/neg does not make anything, it would be more than safe to assume any similar combo would not work, pos/neg/pos, neg/pos/pos, pos/neg/neg all will result in "failures".

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It might be that mixing po/neg will only give special results in some cases. Maybe it requires a single element, so pos/pos/earth, will give something, but neg/pos/earth will not.

gpk posted a weapon with pos/earth/neg, and no special tier 3 effect was listed. So unless it a hidden effect, it looks like mixing pos and neg will only give a tier 2 effect, but no special tier 3 effect.

I was thinking positive and negative might be working like para/quasi, but it seems maybe it is not. So the best combinations will result in 2 elements, or 1 element and a pos/neg, but not 3 different elements and not positive/negative alone. Some people are talking about doing three elements, and it will be interesting to see the result, but it sounds like it may be a dud. (However if fire/earth/earth gave say a meteor swarm on a crit...well that would be pretty useful)

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Originally Posted by Riggs

gpk posted a weapon with pos/earth/neg, and no special tier 3 effect was listed. So unless it a hidden effect, it looks like mixing pos and neg will only give a tier 2 effect, but no special tier 3 effect.

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Eladrin's already said that the order matters.

+/E/- is different from +/-/E.

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Originally Posted by Hence

Your wrong about the pos/neg/air, we have not seen this and I would bet all my equip that it makes something cool.
We HAVE seen neg/pos/neg and that resulted in nothing, so there is a flaw in your logic right there.
<snip>
We know neg/pos/neg does not make anything, it would be more than safe to assume any similar combo would not work, pos/neg/pos, neg/pos/pos, pos/neg/neg all will result in "failures".

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Where have we seen Neg/Pos/Neg? I've been recording combos every day from across the US forums and do not have a note for that one. We do have Neg/Pos/Pos created with no bonus effect.

What I think could give special tier 3 effect

1 - The A + B + A would be a good base for special tier 3, except for stalemate.

2 - The Opposite element with neg or positive

3 - The Opposite energy with either of the element

4 - Like someone said already, using the Opposition Gem with opposite element and energy, escalation with A + B + A and dominion for the other (don't know which one

What I know doesn't work:

1 - Most of the A + B + C (except balance item in A + B, not even one of them was tried yet, and I'm sure they got something)

2 - Balance tier 1 and 2(earth+air, fire+water,+/-) A + B + A/B will NOT work

3 - Probably A + B + B will not work (think I got some screenshot from other people, but can't remember exactly.

That's all for now

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Originally Posted by Hence

Your wrong about the pos/neg/air, we have not seen this and I would bet all my equip that it makes something cool.
We HAVE seen neg/pos/neg and that resulted in nothing, so there is a flaw in your logic right there. We have no idea what air/pos/air does but I expect, "You got air in my lightning" will be the result. And that doesn't sound good. air/pos/water, "You got water in my lightning!" sounds a little bit better.
You may be right about the earth/fire/earth, fire/earth/earth... those are para elementals and elements work differently than pos/neg. We know neg/pos/neg does not make anything, it would be more than safe to assume any similar combo would not work, pos/neg/pos, neg/pos/pos, pos/neg/neg all will result in "failures".

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Air/pos/fire will not give anything, same for air/pos/water, forget the kind of thinking coming with add water to more conductivity of lightning and thing like that, this will not give you lightning II.

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Originally Posted by Mad_Bombardier

Where have we seen Neg/Pos/Neg? I've been recording combos every day from across the US forums and do not have a note for that one. We do have Neg/Pos/Pos created with no bonus effect.

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Don't want to insult you, but this would be stupid of the dev to put an entry to say that you got a balance with the pos/neg and after that give a nice effect with a pos or neg tier 3. This is a BALANCE, so forget to use the same for the third one, pos NOR neg will work...

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Originally Posted by Mad_Bombardier

Where have we seen Neg/Pos/Neg? I've been recording combos every day from across the US forums and do not have a note for that one. We do have Neg/Pos/Pos created with no bonus effect.

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Ahh, I see he edited his post but it makes no difference it is exactly the same.

Neg/Pos/Pos

It should be clear to everyone that any similar combination will fail even Neg/Neg/Pos. All that will result is a Tier two item with a Tier three effect like Eladrin said. But not unlock its full potential.

The order of the first two matter, that makes an "Aspect" or "Special" ability. You have to add something to the Aspect or Special ability that would magnify it. The Special abilities are limited. Adding more of something that is balanced ("Special") will off balance it and not give you a special bonus effect. Adding more of something to an Aspect will amplify the Aspect.

Earth + air add Neg or Pos
Water + fire add Neg or Pos
Neg + Pos add any element

Earth + Fire add Fire or Earth (for second tier Magma, or Magma II)
Earth + Earth add Earth (although this seems bugged for items, and Eladrin is looking into it. It does give a special on weapons.)
Pos + Pos add Pos
Neg + Neg add Neg
and so on...

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Originally Posted by Myrdinn

Air/pos/fire will not give anything, same for air/pos/water

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Originally Posted by Myrdinn

This is a BALANCE, so forget to use the same for the third one, pos NOR neg will work...

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Have you tested them, or are you just guessing like the rest of us?

Just a check on some goggles I'm looking at crafting the first 2 tiers on soon:
1: PEE: Wiz 6, +1 cha skills
2: PEM: +15 hp, +2 con skills, tier 2 effect of double positive: True Rez
3: PEE: +100 sp, +3 cha skills, tier 3 effect of triple positive: Gtr Disruption Guard

So in this case by switching stage 2 from the normal PEE, I trade +50 sp's to get +15 hp and +2 con skill (aka: concentration)

The multi-tier effects are solely based on the focus type?

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Originally Posted by MysticTheurge

Have you tested them, or are you just guessing like the rest of us?

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I would love to see fire on the third tier of that combo. ash and radiance with a balance it just sounds like it could be something cool especially if we are talking about a weapon..

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Originally Posted by Mad_Bombardier

Where have we seen Neg/Pos/Neg? I've been recording combos every day from across the US forums and do not have a note for that one. We do have Neg/Pos/Pos created with no bonus effect.

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Thank you! That was getting on my nerves! lol

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Originally Posted by MysticTheurge

Eladrin's already said that the order matters.

+/E/- is different from +/-/E.

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Yeah ... I think people need to stop thinking A + B + C = Combo and instead start thinking A + B = C (Aspect of XXX), C+D = Combo. There is a possibility that A (being the XXX Affinity listed on the item) might effect what D needs to be, but that doesn't change the fact that what you are trying to upgrade is C (ex: Magma I to Magma II).

The "specials" Eldarin refers to are: Pos/Neg, Fire/Water, Earth/Air. Those fall under neither a Para or a Quasi, so they are "special".

Pos/Neg = Stalemate: Has been talked to death. I want to see Kargon's Fire or someone do a Pos/Neg/Pos or Neg/Pos/Neg.
Earth/Air = Land & Sky: Makes sense to try water for Land, Sky & Sea, or maybe fire.
Fire/Water = Tempered: Man ... who knows. If you go by blacksmithing, I would try fire.

Here is a little something that you might all find interesting.
(forgive me if it has been brought up before, I didn't get through all 31 pages of posts)

There are 20 possible combinations of Fecundity manufactured ingredients for green steel weapon blanks.
But so far we only have 15 weapon blanks that have been listed.
Has anyone tried the other 10 combinations to see if they create new weapons types?

And yes I know the other 10 combinations make equipment, but only when combined with Filaments.
What happens when they combine with Ore?

Ore of Travail combined with >

red taper balm = greatsword
red taper jewel = maul
red taper oil = warhammer
red taper scarab = longsword

yellow taper balm = morningstar
yellow taper jewel = shortsword
yellow taper oil = great crossbow
yellow taper scarab = longbow

blue taper balm = dagger
blue taper jewel = scepter
blue taper oil = khopesh
blue taper scarab = throwing hammer

green taper balm
green taper jewel
green taper oil
green taper scarab

violet taper balm
violet taper jewel
violet taper oil
violet taper scarab