any pally love for new mod?

The only way to make Paladins not suck is to get rid of the class and replace it with Crusader. Of course, you'd have to rework Steely Resolve to make it relevant and powerful relative to DDO. Abilities like Mettle would need to work for ALL spells. It'd take some doing, but the Crusader's martial powers could work very much like the monk's. The template is in place though, so I wouldn't think it'd be too hard.

It is known that Paladins are one of the weakest classes in PnP, so any "fixes" using PnP rules will just make them suck.
The only Paladin worth playing is the variant Paladin of Freedom, the Chaotic Good one, but only until 2nd or 3rd level (maybe 4th for Turn Undead and access to Divine feats). To fix Paladins and make them balanced with other melee, you're gonna have to think outside the box. To reiterate, don't use PnP rules to "improve" the Paladin. Almost all of PnP's rules of Paladins are horrible. If you do use any PnP rules, use the Divine feats already, like Divine Might, Divine Shield etc. Personally, I think the only way is to nuke the Paladin out of orbit...it's the only way to be sure.

Long live the Crusader (and the 4E Paladin, now THAT'S a Paladin).

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Originally Posted by GramercyRiff

(and the 4E Paladin, now THAT'S a Paladin)

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That's a better direction to go in than scrapping the class, if you ask me.

It seems likely that the DDO monk is similar to whatever beta version of a Monk the 4E developers are working on.

So just start pulling from the 4E paladin to improve DDO's paladin.

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Originally Posted by MysticTheurge

That's a better direction to go in than scrapping the class, if you ask me.

It seems likely that the DDO monk is similar to whatever beta version of a Monk the 4E developers are working on.

So just start pulling from the 4E paladin to improve DDO's paladin.

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Sorry, I was being sarcastic about scraping the Paladin. There are ways to make it better, like making it more like the Crusader, the 4E Paladin, and/or Divine feats. Implementing the Crusader class would be a slap in the face to all existing Paladins (and it wouldn't be until 2020 that it would be ready anyway). Still you could give a DDO version of Steely Resolve/Furious Counterstrike, ie make sure that it's useful, ie make sure it makes the the Paladin tougher. The Crusader, after all, was what the Fighter/Paladin should've been in PnP since Day One. It's great to see WotC learn from their mistakes and make the 4E Fighter and Paladin very similar to the mighty Crusader.

My (sarcastic) point was that you can use VERY little from PnP (Paladin feats, spells, PrC's, save Divine feats) to make the Paladin better, because it's inherently a weak class relative to all other melee and is a joke compared to the Cleric. Turbine should do what they did with monks, think outside the box.

Mod 7.0 Patch 1

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Paladin
-Divine Sacrifice now deals 5d6, 7d6, or 9d6 light damage to any opponent on hit (instead of untyped damage that only affected evil creatures), and costs 5 Hit Points and 1 Spell Point rather than 10 Hit Points and 1 Spell Point.
-Divine Sacrifice II and III also now properly increase their critical damage multipliers.

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Better. Much better.

Will now test it out some more.

DS affects the portals.

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Originally Posted by Eladrin

We're planning for Lionheart to dispel existing fear effects.

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OOOOh!

Big deal.

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Originally Posted by Josh

OOOOh!

Big deal.

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Thats for low levels, Zeal is where its at. Attack Speed increase that stacks everything.:) Hopefully it will amount to say... +10% or so.:D

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Originally Posted by Eladrin

Our implementation of Zeal is has changed significantly since then. It's currently a short duration personal effect Sacred bonus to attack speed.

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AKA fighters attack speed increase 1-3 or Rogue attack speed increase 1-3 but in spell form that stacks with haste (enhancement bonus) and action boost bonuses. Yummy! Level 2 so only level 8+ paladins will have access to this spell.

*Trying to remember what level 2 spells I have loaded*
Resistance to Energy - got to keep
Angelskin? - that can be swapped

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Originally Posted by SteeleTrueheart

*Trying to remember what level 2 spells I have loaded*
Resistance to Energy - got to keep
Angelskin? - that can be swapped

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You have 3 level 2 spell slots at 16. My third spell is Remove Paralysis = useless. Zeal will fit nicely in there.

You know, you are right. I have remove paralysis too. I only loaded it so I would stop getting that "you have unprepared spells" message when in an inn. It isn't even on my hotbars.

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Originally Posted by Sertrynus

While it's good to see that the Devs are looking at some spells to help out Pallies, I still don't see anything that makes pallies want to stay pure, or anything for that matter that addresses other issues with the class.

Lets face it, most ppl take a few levels of pally and leave it at that.

I'm not expecting pallies to get the highest ACs or have the best DPS ever, but Devs please look at what a paladin is in it's core, a divine champion of good that seeks out evil and destroys it.

The raise dead feature was nice but AC, as stated many times, is a joke. Most pallies I talk to don't bother with Bulwark of Good 4 coz there just isn't any point getting 1 extra AC.

There have been repeated suggestions as to what could be done to help the class.

Please devs, please review what the player base is saying is the core problems with the class and look at how DDO could be improved.

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I don't feel my paladin's AC is a joke. Granted, he's not in endgame levels yet, but for his level (9th) he is nearly untouchable in level appropriate stuff on hard, and not very touchable on elite. He's not even geared for maximum AC as I'm not obscenely wealthy and most days quite unlucky in loot pulls. I figure up until he enters the Vale he'll do just fine in most places with his current AC. I'm not sure how he'll fare by then, I'm hoping for a few new pieces of gear to up the numbers a bit by that point.

What is annoying is that he can't increase the dex bonus allowed by his armor through the enhancement system. At all. It's not like his dex is high, matter of fact it's a non-issue at his current level, but once he can find a high dex item it'd be nice if he could add a couple levels of an enhancement to make that dex bonus add to his AC. Not everyone uses mithral.

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Originally Posted by MysticTheurge

It seems likely that the DDO monk is similar to whatever beta version of a Monk the 4E developers are working on.

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What causes that impression?

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Originally Posted by VirieSquichie

I don't feel my paladin's AC is a joke. Granted, he's not in endgame levels yet, but for his level (9th)

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Oh, don't worry... you'll get there. Paladins are awesome at level 9.:)

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Originally Posted by Angelus_dead

What causes that impression?

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I'd bet on the finishing moves and the Ki.

How about telling us that you are working on adding things like Divine Might, Divine Shield, Protection Devotion (Complete Champion), Sun Devotion, or Awesome Smite as new feats or enhancements? Or any of the very good paladin spells from the Spell Compendium (like Righteous Fury, I think)?

Why waste time on implementing a handful of mediocre spells when there are people clamoring for preexisting options that will make a positive impact upon the paladin class?

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Originally Posted by Borror0

I'd bet on the finishing moves and the Ki.

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Yeah, the Ki thing and the variety of "powers."

Hi i play a full warforged pally and use greatswords as they are the favored weaponof my deity and like my character very much. hit 16 with 28 point build and am at 12 with my 32 pt build. love pally and am atm trying to get stuff to make up my addy body ac issues and get a worthwile ac. chattering ring, chaosgard, whitedragondocent etc...

hope a dev has the patient to skip the whinning parts of the thread and get to the suggestion parts, else maybe i should have made another thread instead of posting here.

I think it would be awesome if there was an enhancement that made paladin smites to bypass undead and evil beings immunity to crits either all the way or 50% as the feats that allow for positive channeled sneak attacks to undead in complete adventure or scoundrel
those enhancements could be available only for paladins end levels and that would guarantee that full pallys have their place in the game.
a revision of enhancement costs would be swelll too since its hard for even a full pally to get enough aps to have all the good stuff that full pallys are allowed to.

peace out.

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Originally Posted by MysticTheurge

Yeah, the Ki thing and the variety of "powers."

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That's hilariously incorrect, and suggests you have no knowledge of 4e at all.

DDO's monks are less like a 4e monk than 3e monks are.

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Originally Posted by Angelus_dead

That's hilariously incorrect, and suggests you have no knowledge of 4e at all.

DDO's monks are less like a 4e monk than 3e monks are.

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Really? Seems like an hybrid of the two to me. Ki and the finishing moves are very 4th Edition-like.

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Originally Posted by Borror0

Ki and the finishing moves are very 4th Edition-like.

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No, wrong. Ki and finishing moves are completely unlike 4th edition.

I don't want to go into explaining everything about how 4e is designed, because it would require derailing the thread for at least 2,000 words, so I'll leave it with two clue phrases:
1. fungible resource
2. accumulating resource