You have no idea how happy reading this has made me.
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You have no idea how happy reading this has made me.
Yep I made one mistake ;) BB is not light damage :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaeldur
But never the less it is still can be overpowered in fortification debuff. In my opinion that should be something like this:
- Tier 1 - Aura debuff can stack 2 times
- Tier 2 - Aura debuff can stack 3 times
- Tier 3 - Aura debuff can stack 5 times.
Of course with any other abilities, which we probably get on Tier 2 and Tier 3. This is one of my suggestion about good PrE: progressive power of PrE.
Just a question here...Quote:
Originally Posted by Eladrin
"Enemies that strike you have a chance of suffering divine condemnation"
This is the Shield of Condemnation ability, right?
"you project a 15 meter Aura of Menace, decreasing the saving throws, attack, and armor class of nearby enemies by 2"
But this... Is this passive and always active? It's "untransferrable" or is it attached to Shield of Condemnation? Does this Aura of Menace and/or Shield of Condemnation generate hate/aggro?
As I read this the Aura of Menace is independent of the Shield of Condemnation bound to the FvS, like the healing aura of a Cleric or the Paladin aura. The Shield of Condemnation sounds more like a buff. But would be cool to have that clarified!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaeldur
Yay
Badgers and lasers... Will the Warforged Titan be starting its own zoo?Quote:
Originally Posted by KreepyKritter
I think you missed the point of his post slightly. As a player of a game in a team you are obliged to use your character's potential to your fullest ability, most people have fun playing their best and accomplishing tasks efficiently. Not using a certain ability that makes your character better goes against that. If there is no danger of failing a raid, or at least there being some bumpy points, the game turns into a chore (not like it isn't semi-chore like already) rather than a game. Games are the most fun when they are in a spot in between too easy and too hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by xTethx
As a powergamer Teth, obviously you find the most of the game's (actually probably all) fairly trivial. This means you find it easy. I am not sure why you would be advocating making the game even easier than it already is.
Deal! Wizzly is currently sitting on 19.1 caster soul and will be 20 for a while amassing goodies before continuing further with the TR train. Will be perfect timing to get to enjoy this for a bit rather than having just missed it.
So... Am I getting this straight:
+2 effective DC to all spells for all party/raid members against any enemy near the FvS.
Extremely powerful debuff increasing light damage taken by an immense amount.
Even more extreme debuff reducing fortification of pretty much any dangerous enemy to none.
Highly potent damage amplification to practically all spells the FvS has.
As a tier 1 pre with almost no prereqs, and the feat prereq is basically one of a bunch of feats of which most FvS will have at least one, probably two?
Other pres get:
Sniper shot which sucks big time and a tiny bonus to sneak and spot.
OR
Poisons with DCs so low that nothing will fail a save vs it along with 1d6 sneak attack.
OR
+10% offhand strike chance and some minor ac bonus that's overridden with a level 3 wand at massively steep feat cost.
Seriously? Every single one of those abilities the pre grants are easily better or equivalent to most capstones, and even alone they are easily as good as a full pre of most other classes.
The damage increase is about the same as the benefit of the sorcerer capstone.
The fort reduction adds more damage to bosses than kensai I through III combined.
The enemy save debuff beats the benefits of archmages.
Seems FvS just got better than bards at buffing party efficiency, and they don't even have to focus on it to do that. Unless of course all the abilities can be saved against and the DCs are extremely low making the effect largely useless...
Glad to see stacking debuffs - this allows a lot of future, really nasty encounter design. Imagine a boss that throws out a stacking, unremovable '-10% movement speed, -5% attack speed' debuff that persists through death (but not through releasing your spirit) - that's a boss you have to kill fast.
Or mobs that inflict damage over time effects that stack without limit.
And could this be a hint at the game introducing heal over time effects?
Anyway, back to the main topic:
Power-level wise, the big questions around this shield relate to whether it's plausible to keep it up at Tier 5 on enemies. In particular:Quote:
Originally Posted by Eladrin
1) How long does the debuff last
2) What happens to its duration when it stacks (is it refreshed, or does the duration remain the same)
3) What is the proc rate of the shield when you are hit in melee
4) Does it have any internal cooldown (i.e. 'this shield cannot trigger more than once in any twenty second period')
If the answers are '30 sec plus; refreshes; 25% and No', then we can assume most tougher bosses will have -50% Fort for most of the fight. If it's something like '10 sec, not refreshed, 25%, Yes - 3 seconds' then it will only ever stack to five with two or more Angels of Vengeance in group.
One more important point - Fortification debuffs scale with gear in a really over the top way. Examples follow (and these use estimated numbers). When attacking Arraetrikos, this debuff (at Tier 5) might improve the melee DPS of an ungeared capstone Paladin (using Holy Sword - Greatsword) from perhaps 180 to 200, so it accounts for 10% of their final DPS. Improve their weapon to a Lightning 2 Falchion, and it might up the DPS from 220 to 250 (12% of final DPS); and improve it further to a silver eSOS, and it may up their DPS from 270 to 320 (~15% of final DPS).
This PrE is incredible, I'm totally amazed with the direction the Devs have taken it.
Will this PrE come with an update to the FvS spell list? Will we see more light/alignment spells in our selection to compliment nuking, or will we be still spamming a level 1 spell?
Oh yes. I miss that :) And you miss that this mean that all other get +2 to-hit and +2 to AC. Nice....Quote:
Originally Posted by Caeldos
And you forget about super-cool Tier 1 of
Pale Master: Week summons, 5HP, useless on that level Negative Spell enhancements.
Hunter of the Dead: Ghost Touch and lesser restoration - super strong abilities :)
wow. just wow. if this is tier 1 for FvS, ninja spy 3 might get 200d6 sneak attack damage.
1st, there is no feat cost for this PrE. pretty much every FvS grabs maximize for blade barrier. so since there is no feat cost you'd think it would have more AP cost than 6 points. when you consider other 1st tier PrE's are in the 20 AP range (or have to take cleave/spring attack), the cost of this is a joke.
recommendations: if you leave the feat list as is AP cost needs to be higher. probably add the 2 smiting enhancers and a faith line or something. if you want to leave it cheap APs (no telling why since they have plenty of APs to spend), you need to have it require empower and one of the other feats.
2nd, the shield of condemnation has to have some kind of personal debuff. something like a negative level (consort bracers) or fatigue or something to trade off for being a PC pinata.
3rd, these seem like 2 separate exclusive lines. something like this :D
Favored Soul Angel of Vengeance I
Attack Buffs
Cursed Soul Angel of Vengeance I
Attack Debuffs
Sounds like a pretty nice PRE so far. I especially like this idea of stacking debuffs. I'm looking forward to trying this out on my Favored Soul.
WOW! I don't have a favored soul (though this kinda makes me want to make one), but from an AC tank perspective, this looks AWESOME! +2 proxy AC and additional damage against the big guy trying to beat on you. I think this, at the very least, makes it highly desirable to have a favored soul along for the big tanking raids, rather than 2-3 of any healer.
Im really happy for the new PrE's, but this one seems reaally overpowered compared to the rest of them....
To the people saying that it's OP:
From a glance, I would completely agree with you. From a glance it certainly does appear far too powerful.
But when you look at it in context.... that context being that divine nukers were/are so completely useless and unefficient that everyone was playing melee souls and battleclerics.... something of this power was needed to balance caster vs melee.
Epic divine casters were healbots and buffbots. Now, with these tools, they can contribute in other ways.
It certainly is powerful, but power is exactly what divine nukers were lacking.
All I have to say is WOW.
I forsee a whole bunch of cleric's TR'ing BACK fo Favored Soul.
Looks like my TR timing was spot on.
yuda :D
No way! FvS get only: +2 DC, AC, To-hit for every one, +20% more damage on best spells, Probably one-of-the-best-game debuff (possibility -50% fortification, +100% vulnerability light spells) for a cost of 10 AP and one feat. All this at lvl 6.Quote:
Originally Posted by rokes
And others get so much more...
like...
uh...
1d6 sneek attack?
uh...
5HP? And funny summon?...
...
Never mind. Nevertheless this is too little for FvS. I hope that Tier 2 give us something more powerful then that... ;)
it isn't the individual items that bother me, its the whole package. that was my whole point about breaking them up. if you split this into separate lines you can make the casting buffs even more powerful and bring back the viability of the casting cleric. the problem is when you group them all together its just over the top.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calebro
archmage was a success for a reason. there were probably a million combinations that could be made with the enhancement lines. Some of them were good, some bad, but there was something for everyone. by going back to this one size fits all approach you HAVE to make it OP'd to keep people from whining.