Player Character Balance

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Originally Posted by BigErkyKid

In any case, shiradi is as high sustainable DPS as you can hope to be on a caster. Unless there is something I am not getting (and non of my guildies is understanding either). To me, this is not WAI since Shiradi procs become the main focus instead of whatever spell you are casting. But the greatness of this is that devs are reading this and can judge whether it is WAI or not.

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You're changing tack a little now. You're now talking about a sustainable DPS build - not top DPS. That's a different recepticle of
piscine lifeforms IMO. If you're now talking about sustainable DPS then I'm more inclined to agree with you. However, who is to
say this is not WAI. This is what the majority of the waaaa waaaa brigade continually fail to appreciate; Shiradi works because
it's efficient, doesn't need high DC and has much less reliance on caster level (meaning you can easily splash 4 FVS/2 Mon on your
Sorc build). It also has far less steep gear requirements (due to DC) and is thus accessible to a broader swathe of the player
base. A first life DI is going to suck in EE but he might have a chance if Shiradi. In other words it's effective without being too
costly.

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2. Self healing.
Problem: Healers mostly redundant outside of raids, favors soloism, introduces imbalances between those who can heal very well and those who can't.
Solution: Re think self healing.

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Right, so are you someone who thinks this should be a 'grouping' game only?
I see you don't have a 'thing' for FVS/Cleric etc. - they can self heal really well - if fleshy. I think fleshy self
healing should be nerf'ed - it's just too powerful. See how that works?

From the rest of your 'points' it seems like your someone who strongly favours pure classed
roles within a balanced party. You seem to have a real issue with multiclassing and soloing.
In fact, it's a diatribe into making the game more rigid and removing the ability to effectively
multiclass - if there's no benefit, people wouldn't do it.

The *only* thing this game has going for it over the games that it's competing with is that
is has the most flexible character creation and enhancement system going. It seems to
me that removing that and reverting the game to a state where forced grouping is required to
get anything done would just result in the lights being switched off sooner.

Let's buff 'weak' ED and class abilities - choice is good.

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Originally Posted by BigErkyKid

Kitting through FW and BB becomes less and less effective as you move to higher levels. I would say it is almost never used in epics. At least that I have seen.

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Which is why I specifically mentioned heroic play. Adjusting jump-casting affects heroic play. Whether we are talking about new players or TRers, you suggestion will affect them negatively and their reaction will be negative. Given that the incoming adjustement are going to cause dissatisfaction regardless, spreading that dissatisfaction beyond the intended target is not a very good idea in my opinion.
Again if kiting OP DPS'ers are the problem, target the OP DPS and target the key source of the OP DPS only, which tends to be the synergy between abilities and not the actual abilities themselves.

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Originally Posted by Rautis

I don't think player character abilities should be changed alot. Some epic abilities are way stronger than others, however. Balancing should come from clever changes to monsters. With changes like this both monster damage and hp could be lowered and game could still offer challenge. I will cover some areas of gameplay that I think have made the metagame what it is today.



Monsters not using things that bypass parts of layered defenses.

Displaced shadow fading monks with maxed dodge and some PRR are so popular because every one of those abilities works most of the time on physical damage. Each of these should have their uses but they should not work always.

• Why are there no monster archers with force arrow imbue? Players can get it at level 2 at earliest yet the most epic of archer monsters dont have it. It should be common ability on archer monsters. This ability bypasses incorporeal. Some melee monsters could come with ghost touch if it makes any sense lore wise.
• True seeing can be cast at level 9 but you rarely encounter it on monsters. If the organization you're fighting against has clerics or mages there should be a good chance of monsters having true seeing. This would also affect invis runs though. Not sure if it is a bad thing.
• It's ok that PRR always works. Problem is that you can get enough PRR from enhancements, items and feats that you get past optimal investment point making extra PRR from armor rather meaningless. There could be adjustments to PRR mechanic to make armor count more. One option is to adjust the 0.65 in PRR formula up or down depending on armor worn. So for different armors same PRR yields different results.
• There are also some abilities that bypass a portion of dodge rating. Certain monster types could use these.

Epic ward.

This ability simply ruins some playstyles that are viable in heroics. Rogue with crippling strike. Ravager with Mutilate and Cruel cut. Cloudkill using archmage. Bard with Suggestion. Even some Epic Destiny abilities suck when rats, wolves, bears, spiders and other epic monsters are immune or highly resistant to abilities you might have even specialized in.

• Give dispells to hit/AC treatment.
• Replace epic ward with buffs or make it dispellable. Make different 'epic wards' suitable for different monster types. Normal animals or vermin should not gain any kind of ward while strong casters could have very strong magical protections. Melees could come with package that improves their performance(true seeing, haste, blur, freedom of movement, death ward, immunity to mind spells, abilities from old epic ward etc). All these should be dispellable.
• Most casters and potential UMD using monsters should come with night shield or shield. It is level 1 spell afterall
• Giving dispell ability to some classes could also buff them if dispell is useful. Paladin Holy Sword could become more like Holy Avenger as self only weapon buff with dispell attempt on crit or so besides other benefits. Barbarian Occult Slayer could also gain dispell attempt ability at tier 5 or so.
• This could be a good time to give abjuration spell focuses an increase in dispell chance. Maybe also for abjuration archmages. Wider variety of build choices would be nice. Currently no one even thinks about focusing in abjuration.

Cost of getting a mob dispelled would play a big role in caster balance and should be adjusted carefully. Buffs on monsters can hurt both melees/ranged and casters depending on buff choices. Some monsters could even get buffs specially designed for them. For example now very few enemies use fire shield style abilities.(Melee nerfs are not needed at the moment. Yet it would be a buff for those melee builds that can dispell when compared to ones that can't.) Also Spell mantle/globe of invulnerability is rare these days.



Kiting.

This is last because I'm not sure if much/any changes are needed. This is atleast partially just a symptom of way things are now, like Fhauvial said. Most monsters lack reasonable countermeasures against kiting players. This makes kiting much less risky than using melee. Kiting should still be viable but atleast require more tactical choices. It should be dangerous to kite entire encounters.

• Have AI recognize kiting behavior(damage dealt vs. hit attempts taken. Monster attempting to attack in melee for time period but unable to do so or something like that. Probably not easy to come up with criteria that won't also consider CC casters or others as kiters. It might not be that bad even then though.)
• Archer mobs could target kiter so atleast some damage is caused. Archers could also use special attacks like leg shot or some ability that stacks per hit basis so the slowdown isnt as instant and there's time to react. This should help melee monsters to land more hits on kiters.
• Melees could use more tactical attacks on kiters, or switch to side abilities like shadow dagger, binding shadows or other debuffs suitable for particular monster that could help them catch you.
• Also casters could spare their Power Words for when kiting is detected

AI changes are probably not easy at all to implement. It could also be easy to overdo this. Most archers could just gain ability on their attacks that stacks slow effect on players. Nothing huge probably. Just 1% per hit could be enough.




These are some ideas that I got that might make any sense. If you like any of them please comment them. It took a while to come up with all of these. Some of these might have results I didn't think about. Most importantly these are ways to make monster hit points and damage more reasonable while still keeping challenge and hopefully balancing different playstyles in process.

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on kiting:

I just did elite Schemes of the Enemy the other day (for the boots). There is that room with 4 or 5 artificers. I was in with a guildmate and between them, they were spamming that electricity spell. We couldn't move for more than 1-2 secs at a time (stunned for 5-10 secs at a time). My save was 35 and they were casting it no-fail on me. I tried kiting but the spell tracks remarkably well..They CAN be easily instakilled, but neither of us had that ability.

I"m not complaining, just pointing out that there are some mechanics in the game that prevent kiting...Too bad this is not located in newer content where I'm sure it would be effective. Plus, these mobs did have weak saves once your able to move.....hint hint

If you ae looking for OP unbalanced classes then you might want to start with the whopper of all that is unbalanced. the shardi caster mm build. Im going to get alot of grief for this post im sure but It needs to be addresed. Lolz i can go into pretty much any EE quest from EE tor to EE lines of supply up to and including quest like EE brothers forge and EE study in the sabel and with pretty much hitting 8 keys solo them in much less time than 90% of the gamers out there in full groups. There are many different shardi caster mm builds out there some great some not so great but in general the shardi caster mm build is way OP and completly unbalances the game.

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Originally Posted by Kayla93

THIS.

Someone also mentioned wizards needing a buff - I wont agree here. Casual wizard players may need a buff but maxed out wizard in one of the most powerful character in DDO anbd can instantkill 95% of mobs in quest before you get to them close enough to hit them :P

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My main toon is a pure palemaster DC insta-killer. That build does ONE thing, instant death spells to trash mobs. Secondary to that is self-regenerating and crowd control during boss fights. That's IT. No heavy boss DPS, no significant contributions from your pet, it's instant death or bust.

The problem with that, is the design of the high level monsters themselves.

Even with a completely maxxed DC caster, on EH you end up level-draining half your limited reserve of mana away just to stick the instakills, and on EE you are COMPLETELY USELESS. Ditto for places like Gianthold, where all the monsters have Deathward. Can't crowd control them, can't scratch their HP with damage spells, and your one specialty is completely blocked by a single UNDISPELLABLE uber-resistance.

EE mobs have disgustingly high HP, and ludicrous saves, so you cannot use damaging spells to make a dent in them, cannot drain them enough to stick an autokill and cannot charm, web, or CC them at all. They hit so hard your 70+Hp per second regeneration is nothing to them, and you end up doing nothing for a group but eating up rezzes. Any trash mob over CR 45 will kill you, and anything under CR45 dies instantly. It sucks.

So, i hadn't played a level 1 character from scratch for quite a while. I made a dummy account to double dip the collector cards this month and BOY did I find a badly broken part of the game.

I made a level 1 wizard, cause that's how I like to roll.
Archmage invisibility is the best use of your first Action Point in the history of ever, and 1st level Summon Monster + Necro Pet = lay-z-boy anna beer time. So, i'm thinking about ways to optimize the lethargy of this build (dwarf wizard: cast spells, drink beer while your minions do the work) and I pick up a hireling. Level 1 Warforged Barbarian, 6 gold pieces.

Now my summon hits for 2-8 damage a bite (i go with the dog, fits the theme) and the skeleton pet hits for around 12-14 a swing. That's fine, the dog seems comparable to the trash mobs and the pet kills pretty much everything after a while.
This hireling, the one that cost me a whopping 6 pieces of Gold, hits for 30-40+ damage PER SWING. At FIRST level!


With the Magister ED at level 4 (so a 24th level character) and completely maxxed Summon augments, you can summon a Lich. You'd think "Wow, cool! A Lich! That's like one of the iconic power monsters in all of Dungeons and Dragons. Sure it costs a ton of otherwise better-spent points to get that, but I wanna see what he does!"

Here's what he does: Casts fireball occasionally, shambles around, spams magic missile.

His missiles hit for around 12-15 a pop.

Remember that Level 1 Hireling Barbarian, that cost nothing more than a paltry 6 gold (no Xp necessary, no feats skills or enhancements, nada)
He hits for MORE DAMAGE than a CR:20 Lich summoned by a level 24 Epic Necromancer.


Your game is broken. Fix it.

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Originally Posted by Alfhild

Increasing the number of mobs with Ghost Touch reduces the value of Incorp.
Reducing the value of incorp hurts Waith Necro's the most, virtually EVERY monk including non-monkcher monks, and nerfs everyone wearing an incorp item, which, at the level of play we are discussing, should be everyone.
Reducing the value of Displacement nerfs every shadowmarked elf, every arcane caster, everyone who has farmed Shroud clickies and everyone with workable UMD, which at the level of play we are discussing, is almost everyone.
A lot of people, yourself included, are saying EE mobs need a nerf.
Your suggestion is to nerf virtually every player, buff some mobs in one way, and nerf them all in others.
Were I a dev looking to pitch management a make-work project to ensure short-term job security, your idea is great.
I am not trying to be rude but just asking that you think out ALL the implications of your suggestion.

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I did consider most of the results. I have played shadowmarked elf paladin, different wizards and some monks too. I actually just got shadow form on my rogue. How much of your received damage comes from archer monsters? It would be a nerf yes, but I think I would still play my incorporeal characters succesfully. I think of it more like monster archer buff.(as ghost touch makes sense for very few melee monsters lore wise.) Now they rarely are the most fearsome part of an encounter for anyone.

Displacement is more important issue as anyone can get it from a source or another. Making the spell self only was a huge nerf to my bard playstyle.(I liked displacing the melees. I actually made the shadowmark paladin so I could keep doing so before enhancement pass.) And it was also a huge nerf to classes that have hard time getting their UMD up as partymembers no longer can cast it on them. Now there's a huge difference in damage mitigation between people who can effortlessly keep displacement running for every encounter and those who can't. Strangely enough it usually favors classes who aren't stereotypically considered frontline melees.

I could see more(again, not the rats or anything else with animal level int for sure) monsters having true seeing as dispellable buff. So they start the fight with ability to hit through displacement but stop doing that if they get dispelled. Displacement is afterall just level 3 spell. It is funny how important it is for those few epic melees at the moment. Ofcourse, meleeing should be viable option even if more mobs had true seeing.

On Sorcerers: I was playing Haunted Halls with a FVS guildmate last night, and we were comparing damage, noting that my pure 20 fire savant far outclasses FVS light spell dps. It turned into something of a debate about potential and the necessity for that potential at endgame.

Anyway, I was coming to a conclusion, one that I''d like to A. Verify and B. Posit possible solutions for

1. I think Sorcs DPS is not out of the realm of reason considering their role and abilities, when E-burst is taken out of the picture. Dragon Breath is sweet, but at a long cooldown and 5/rest they don't drive the damage. I find that I can reasonably hope to get almost all of the kills in a party if I rely solely on E-burst with some fireballs to clean up the stragglers. I never run out of SP if I take any interest in not doing so. I think E-burst is OP and Sorcs are poorly equipped outside of that.

2. I think Sorcs need to be semi-buffed, that is given new abilities with good synergy to their goals, rather than more of the exact same bonus(spellpower and caster levels/crit chance). Immolation(the burning affect over time) is great flavor and lots of fun, Heat Death is great too. Cheap fire Guard sucks and should be level 1 if it exists and all, replace it with a percentage resist to fire or something. Basically don't add more dps, add more flavor and synergy driven class bonuses that make the character rounded. This precedes my next, inevitably unpopular suggestion...

3. Rework draconic. Tier 2 get a PRR bonus stance that doesn't stack with armor or monk stances(15 or so would mean my guy can hit 15 elemental+30bracers+15 ED=60 prr or approx 25-29% reduction). If thats too much try a static draconic DR 20/-. Double the cooldown on E-burst, or triple it and increase the damage. It is supposed to be a blast of unholy proportions, if its going to wipe the board and crit for upwards of 20k(it does) then it should not be both cheap and spammable. If you wanted to double the damage and give say...5-10 per rest, I'd be impressed as well. Shorten the timer on dragon wings, reduce/eliminate the damage and increase the trip dc. The goal is utility instead of more damage. Increase available Evo dcs, along with Conj dcs. Let me land ALL things if I spec for it, its reasonable given I only do the one thing.
Drop Fearsome Invuln and replace it with a temporary draconic form(Assume Draconic Form), turn into a chromatic dragon like the FoT disciples, halve the cooldown again on all draconic abilites(Roar, Wings, Breath) add 1-2 breaths back when you trigger the ability, 3d12+ CHA mod damage per melee attack with some sort of damage based on your element, spell cooldown increased and another 20 someodd DR for a minute.
Make sorcs more the masters of an element and less vehicles for Energy Burst.

All of the above coupled with some adjustments to spell damage and cost would be my suggestions to properly rebalance sorcerers. Make them able to achieve more dps per spellbar but less per second, make them able to contribute to CC in limited ways and then reduce the availability of silly huge numbers.

Pipe Dream interlude: I always dreamed of a percentage heal from ones element, such that 25% or whatever of fire damage heals my savant. Incoming damage will be reduced to 3/4s of its effect(200 damage + 50 heal = 150 damage) and I can self-cast my SLAs to give myself some health. I thought of this when comparing to Necros because I realized pure elemental immunity is impossible given the number of traps, lava pits and raid bosses that immunity would completely break. But I do think having even a limited number of spells(fire shield, fire wall, the con-DC SLA from the tree) work to my benefit would be fun, flavorful, make sense(elementals DO heal from their element) and again do something other than just pile more damage on.

P.S. If you REALLY want to increase the Coolness of sorcs, try adding a caster PrE that isn't a Savant. We have 1 savant in 4 colors, and one PrE that I've yet to see a pure Sorc do ANYTHING but steal scrolls and the DR bubble from. Really, a Psionic Cha driven CC build with untyped damage(illithid heritage?) or Acolyte Abjuration/Transmutation character with demon damage resistances and some melee interaction would play well with both of the existing trees, offer opportunity to expand the horizons of sorc beyond elemental dps that overpowers everything and let sorcs diversify. Don't call Eldritch the last one, add something caster-friendly and make it totally not a DPS. If its good you'll see good things come.

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Originally Posted by Rautis

I did consider most of the results. I have played shadowmarked elf paladin, different wizards and some monks too. I actually just got shadow form on my rogue. How much of your received damage comes from archer monsters? It would be a nerf yes, but I think I would still play my incorporeal characters succesfully. I think of it more like monster archer buff.(as ghost touch makes sense for very few melee monsters lore wise.) Now they rarely are the most fearsome part of an encounter for anyone.

Displacement is more important issue as anyone can get it from a source or another. Making the spell self only was a huge nerf to my bard playstyle.(I liked displacing the melees. I actually made the shadowmark paladin so I could keep doing so before enhancement pass.) And it was also a huge nerf to classes that have hard time getting their UMD up as partymembers no longer can cast it on them. Now there's a huge difference in damage mitigation between people who can effortlessly keep displacement running for every encounter and those who can't. Strangely enough it usually favors classes who aren't stereotypically considered frontline melees.

I could see more(again, not the rats or anything else with animal level int for sure) monsters having true seeing as dispellable buff. So they start the fight with ability to hit through displacement but stop doing that if they get dispelled. Displacement is afterall just level 3 spell. It is funny how important it is for those few epic melees at the moment. Ofcourse, meleeing should be viable option even if more mobs had true seeing.

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If we assume Elite Mobs need a "nerf", your suggestion requires designing and implementing that blanket nerf, buffing some mobs, and then implementing another nerf to balance the buff you gave them.
I am not saying you ideas are somehow intrinsically without value, I am saying they are far more extra work than I believe the Devs are willing to give to the matter.
As for your ideas of dispelling become an essential tool of encounter mechanics, it is an interesting idea, but given the current game mechanics and the current player atmosphere, are people going to agree to making Monkchers even more OP? (Think Manyshotted Shattermantle followed by Manyshotted Dispelling Shot)

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Originally Posted by blerkington

Hi,

You should have noticed by now that there are some major differences between the 3.5 ruleset and DDO.

In DDO, you are not required to choose between melee and ranged specialisation as a ranger they same way you are in some versions of the PnP rules. That is why I and many others here have been telling you that the ranger is not a ranged specialist in this game.

Referring to a set of rules for a different game does not prove your point at all. DDO is based upon 3.5E, but at this point of its evolution it is also a very different thing from the original ruleset in many ways.

If you put some effort into learning the game you are playing now, rather than arguing how it is or should be more like another, different game, it will help you to become a better player, I promise.

I don't think it can be explained any more clearly than that. You can continue sticking your fingers in your ears and refusing to believe it, but that won't make you any less wrong.

Thanks, and good luck.

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I'm so hurt right now I'm literally in tears, maybe because I'm female Idk. All this time I thought I was playing Dungeons & Dragons. So what have I been playing? What is this game? Someone please tell me I'm so lost.

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Originally Posted by Alfhild

Which is why I specifically mentioned heroic play. Adjusting jump-casting affects heroic play. Whether we are talking about new players or TRers, you suggestion will affect them negatively and their reaction will be negative. Given that the incoming adjustement are going to cause dissatisfaction regardless, spreading that dissatisfaction beyond the intended target is not a very good idea in my opinion.
Again if kiting OP DPS'ers are the problem, target the OP DPS and target the key source of the OP DPS only, which tends to be the synergy between abilities and not the actual abilities themselves.

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Jump casting does not affect BB and FW kiting. You can cast it and be slowed down a bit and then kite through it, or cast it in advance and move to it. I don't think that my suggestion has any implications for heroic content in that sense.

Jump casting aka as pew pew jumping and phew phew shooting are the actions I would suggest to target with the nerf I sketched. Again, this has no implications for BB and FW kitting.

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Originally Posted by knockcocker

You're changing tack a little now. You're now talking about a sustainable DPS build - not top DPS. That's a different recepticle of
piscine lifeforms IMO. If you're now talking about sustainable DPS then I'm more inclined to agree with you. However, who is to
say this is not WAI. This is what the majority of the waaaa waaaa brigade continually fail to appreciate; Shiradi works because
it's efficient, doesn't need high DC and has much less reliance on caster level (meaning you can easily splash 4 FVS/2 Mon on your
Sorc build). It also has far less steep gear requirements (due to DC) and is thus accessible to a broader swathe of the player
base. A first life DI is going to suck in EE but he might have a chance if Shiradi. In other words it's effective without being too
costly.



Right, so are you someone who thinks this should be a 'grouping' game only?
I see you don't have a 'thing' for FVS/Cleric etc. - they can self heal really well - if fleshy. I think fleshy self
healing should be nerf'ed - it's just too powerful. See how that works?

From the rest of your 'points' it seems like your someone who strongly favours pure classed
roles within a balanced party. You seem to have a real issue with multiclassing and soloing.
In fact, it's a diatribe into making the game more rigid and removing the ability to effectively
multiclass - if there's no benefit, people wouldn't do it.

The *only* thing this game has going for it over the games that it's competing with is that
is has the most flexible character creation and enhancement system going. It seems to
me that removing that and reverting the game to a state where forced grouping is required to
get anything done would just result in the lights being switched off sooner.

Let's buff 'weak' ED and class abilities - choice is good.

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I agree that character tuning is a main appeal of DDO. However, multiclassing is now not a preference but a must. I disagree with that.

Also, yes I would favor group play. I think it is more interesting and that's the reason why I come to play DDO anyway.

Should everyone be forced to group? I don't think so. But the concern now is that even in groups there is little to no cooperation right now. I like it better when party members need each other to create a more powerful party. That thing about the sum of the parts being greater than...

Right now, soloism happens in groups. The greatest achievements people post on forums are being able to solo the toughest quests and raids. I don't like the direction the game is taking in this sense.

It is strictly a matter of preference, not balance. Kitting, on the other hand, is for me overwhelmingly a matter of balance.


PS - On the shiradi matter. I was always a DC caster or a tactical melee. Direction of the game has been attacking these sort of builds more than pure raw damage. I dislike that. There should be room for both.

So, now I have my spam machine shiradi BF sorc, 14,4,2. He has literally no gear, only random loot. He even had some slots empty. But he was a significant contributor to all the quests I played (yes, in groups) and now it comes to my mind a particular fight in VON5 elite where 4 people died around me in a locked room and I pulled the fight while having around 500 SP left in my bar when I began.

The mayor problem here its the multiclass system.
Because theres no restriction, you can make anything you like.

DDO, take the D&D system, but a multiclass has no penalty, so a multiclass can be better than a pure class.
We can argue that this go with that or not, like ex. boulder toss.

So we have to make a simple question, or the devs or someone has the answer. What its the goal? multiclass or pure? Who has "the pasta" a pure its a better fighter than a multiclass? 20 fighter lvl its better defender than a 10 figher/10 paladin?
Because its a lot of diference in this answer. Rather a simple question will stop almost all of this discusion. If a devs says "the goal for end game its a nice multiclass" all of us (me included) will respawn my pure characters and fix it.

You still can play whatever you like, but with the aknowledge of whats the goal in the endgame.



And please, dont say the bard tree its fine. The tree of the warchanter its awfull, Gathering Cold, really?? How many quest are there that someone cast cold to you 50% 60%?
Transform that in Gathering Magic, and we can start talking

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Originally Posted by avepepix

So we have to make a simple question, or the devs or someone has the answer. What its the goal? multiclass or pure? Who has "the pasta" a pure its a better fighter than a multiclass? 20 fighter lvl its better defender than a 10 figher/10 paladin?
Because its a lot of diference in this answer. Rather a simple question will stop almost all of this discusion. If a devs says "the goal for end game its a nice multiclass" all of us (me included) will respawn my pure characters and fix it.

You still can play whatever you like, but with the aknowledge of whats the goal in the endgame.

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nice

the Key to achieving some resemblance of character balance lies in providing real tangible benefits to being a pure class build.

Currently, Splashing monks and Paladin create comparatively overpowered characters because staying pure has little benefit.

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Originally Posted by BigErkyKid

Solution: Nerf kiting.

* Huge drop in backpedalling speed and higher drop in speed from casting / attacking.

* Nerf jump-cast, jump-shoot. It should slow you down as much as doing it while NOT jumping.

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Whatever else you do, don't do this. If DDO is known for anything it is the fantastic combat physics. To deliberately knee-cap yourselves by removing any of the existing dynamism of combat would be foolish in the extreme. Further, doing this would not even address your goal of nerfing high-powered toons. This would hurt everyone across the board. Pleeeease don't do this.

The rest of that particular post is also generally bad, but this one idea is terribad.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Seaglen

Whatever else you do, don't do this. If DDO is known for anything it is the fantastic combat physics. To deliberately knee-cap yourselves by removing any of the existing dynamism of combat would be foolish in the extreme. Further, doing this would not even address your goal of nerfing high-powered toons. This would hurt everyone across the board. Pleeeease don't do this.

The rest of that particular post is also generally bad, but this one idea is terribad.

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100% agreed. Removing any element of the active combat would be a terrible mistake.

If anything, I'd like to add more active combat elements that melees could use (active dodge with a temporary invulnerability component or something), although obviously that's a topic best left for future discussions.

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Originally Posted by Katie_Seaglen

Whatever else you do, don't do this. If DDO is known for anything it is the fantastic combat physics. To deliberately knee-cap yourselves by removing any of the existing dynamism of combat would be foolish in the extreme. Further, doing this would not even address your goal of nerfing high-powered toons. This would hurt everyone across the board. Pleeeease don't do this.

The rest of that particular post is also generally bad, but this one idea is terribad.

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Fantastic combat physics?

So your telling me you can run backwards at the same rate as you can run forwards? with the same motor control?

the silly backpedal speed in DDO is one of the biggest flaws in their game engine imo....

THey should throw a Balance check every 6 seconds. Fail and fall on your ass...

and no. I'm not generally opposed to Caster Kiters. I often kite through blade barriers as well as firewalls.

Of course, if they do something like that I really want to see them fix/remove the silly run through water slowdown and the step up animation for very short changes in elevation.

Multiclassing and the combat system are the BEST features of ddo, and the only reason it has a niche of players.


Honestly capstones are rather powerfull, but even if you buffed them more you would probably still have all the multiclass vs pure whining. I saw whining because you choose to build the character you play, your not forced to be pure or anything of the sort. Why does it bother certain people that splashing makes powerfull toons, it always has in dnd.


As far as suggesting nerfs to kiting, i will tell you this now. If you screw with ddo combat players will leave and NEVER come back. This combat feels like an action game, NO mmo has that! Not even ESO! As others have said, kiting is only necessary due to monster damage being to high in EE, people dont kite in EH much.



Stay on topic people! The issue of balance lie only really with shiradi, blitz, and fury. Those are an easy fix:
1. Nerf EE monster to hit (buff ac tanks), damage, saves, and spell penetration (as SR is made useless).
2. Reduce shiradi procs to 50 percent of your spell power.
3. Allow adrenaline to work with bows, but not manyshot (fury ranged is balanced, the burst is not)
4. Keep masters blitz and 10 stacks, cut damage bonus in half

Buffs to other EDs and PrEs if you have time.

BTW get rid of manyshot disabling doubleshot for X seconds, its made doubleshot useless. It will also buff pure rangers for all the pure classes. 20% doubleshot is a HUGE bonus if doubleshot is un nerfed.


It should just disable doubleshot for the duration of manyshot and 10k stars. Current inplementation you are almost always locked out of doubleshot so its preety useless