So can a dev tell me why to play a savant now?

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Originally Posted by Lifespawn

Sorry but no dice Lamania is a PREVIEW server they have said this many times it is not a test server thats what mourlands is for why should we continue to test things for them they should have this figured out right? if lamania isn't a "Test" server.

How do all these things make it to the Preview server and don't get fixed or changed before then? Whats the point of a test server if they don't test things but we do on lam and live?

Preview is for checking out content catching any glaring bugs in quest design so they don't make it to live which they tend to do anyway.

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So if devs are made aware that LitII+Air Savant curses make a broken weapon even more broken, they're not allowed to change it?

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Originally Posted by Possible Future Response

They should have thought of that before they put it on the test server.

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Well they didn't. It's either not being able to change the update because "it's supposed to be a preview server" and releasing the update now, or fix it beforehand and keep the game more balanced.

And:

Everyone, whether or not Savants were better before, the PrE still gives you a considerably higher amount of spell DPS and sustainability. Your DPS is as high if not higher than melees, and you can keep it up in the long haul.

I'm still puzzled by why they gave Pale Masters even more power and abilities in an update that was supposed be dedicated to Sorcs. Seriously Pale Masters have gotten more powerful with every update since they've come out. And now they can one shot stuff in epics with their necro dcs. Pretty obvious what class the Devs play. Savants better get the same treatment over the next 7 updates. Instead of adding more Pale Master Forms you guys should be adding elemental forms for Sorcerers.

Because you can?

All the shrouds from the PMs will lag out the server and cause madness, UTTER MADNESS

has everyone overlooked this line in the savant pre?

Your electrical resistance grows to 10 points and you now BYPASS! 10 points of electrical resistance of opponents.

so unless they remove this line i still think savant is pretty good now 5-15 dmg my sound like very little but when you use any dmg over time effects like firewall or acid you will be doing more dmg with every tick

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Originally Posted by Vengeance777

I'm still puzzled by why they gave Pale Masters even more power and abilities in an update that was supposed be dedicated to Sorcs. Seriously Pale Masters have gotten more powerful with every update since they've come out. And now they can one shot stuff in epics with their necro dcs. Pretty obvious what class the Devs play. Savants better get the same treatment over the next 7 updates. Instead of adding more Pale Master Forms you guys should be adding elemental forms for Sorcerers.

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Sorcs can also one shot many of the same epic mobs on lammania. The weakness had nothign to do with this.

To most everyone overeacting in this thread:

Those saying they would not take the savant prestige are being completely childish about this. I'm not gonna drive the new car you just gave me because you told me it was gonna be a better car kinda responses. It is still a large increase in damage output to your spells. Weakness stacking was only beneficial in a few fights in the game anyways and for those fights it was OP allowing for extremely high dps numbers, it does very little to make the pre less powerful in 90% of the game.

Responses like those in this thread are unproductive. How many of those complaining have even tested them. These are just kneejerk reactions that cause devs to not want to release information early so it's not held over their heads when they decide to change it.

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Originally Posted by LeLoric

Those saying they would not take the savant prestige are being completely childish about this. I'm not gonna drive the new car you just gave me because you told me it was gonna be a better car kinda responses.

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If I have a Audi (TR'd wiz), and for a long time you have been saying that you would be buying me a Lamborghini (PrE as it was before the nerf) but you end up buying me a Yugo (PrE as it is now), you expect me to use the Yugo?

No.

But considering you dont have a car now...(if you are a sorc)

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Originally Posted by Xaxx

Ok since we're giving up half an element for a small buff and a few *free* long cooldown and most of them are pretty crappy spells.... can i get an official response on what the thought prossess is that will get people to play savants?

Pre's are supposed to make your characters better, not worse. When compared to any other pre, the downsides arent even close. Some pres have a few downsides, but usually not much, and none of them have downsides that make them hamstring a class to the point where the players have to look at it and go, hmm is it even worth it.

You dont run into a barb and go are you a frenzied berzerker, you dont run into a fighter and say do you have a pre, you dont run into a wiz any more and wonder if they're using one of the 2 pres. With sorcs, it'll be pretty obvious what pre they are, and im gonna go out on a limb here and guess that half the sorcs running around wont have one.

So I'm asking for a direct answer, no mumbo jumbo, no double speak... just a direct answer on why the pre is useful, and how they think it stacks against any other pre. I dont believe this is to much to ask for someone whose been playing on and off as long as I have, and who now is sorely tempted to delete every character I have so that I have no temptation to ever return to this game.

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I take it you weren't here when the Pale Master prestige was first released?

For a moment, I thought I was necro'ing a thread from then...

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Originally Posted by B0ltdrag0n

But considering you dont have a car now...(if you are a sorc)

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Yes you do, and it's better than the Yugo, because it's more versatile. You give up a LOT of versatility for this Pre, and in its current state you do not get enough back to make up for it. Sorcs would be better off with 1 more update with no PrE than the current version.

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Originally Posted by B0ltdrag0n

But considering you dont have a car now...(if you are a sorc)

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on the contrary, my sorcerer worked perfectly fine before this update. by which i mean, before they took away my shorter cooldowns, and made my save DCs which were previously good enough instead become worthless in any difficult epics. right now, i can go into pretty near any epic quest on my sorcerer and contribute. next patch? you seriously think there's a lot of people standing around thinking "you know what i need? unsustainable DPS, with a side of really pathetic sustainable DPS! yeah, that's it! and also, i sure hope whoever hits this LFM can't CC worth ****, too!"

between all the changes they've made, my sorcerer is going to be less useful than before the patch. at least when we had the savants, there was some chance people would be glad to have me along because i'd be able to nuke the boss down, and maybe even the occasional nuke while questing so long as i'm careful to [edit: not] run out of SP.

instead, the simple fact is that now my CC is [edit: not] going to be good enough to run the same content i'm running right now, my sustainable damage is only moving up at all because previously it consisted of casting a single persistent AOE per fight and now there's an option to have SLAs (provided you don't mind gimping your options), and my DPS vs single target is basically unchanged from what it could be before this update.

if i gave a **** about 26d6 polar rays, i would already have 25d6 polar rays. right now, it simply isn't worth investing the effort into getting the gear to boost your spell DPS, because it just doesn't do enough DPS for long enough to matter. in the new update... guess what... it still won't be worth the effort. when we had full elemental weakness curse, there was a lot of promise, because it was a big deal. it was something that would actually allow us, after 80 seconds of prep time, do some real damage. it was something that would actually maybe cause people to let more than 2 arcanes into their raids ever.

instead, my previous sustainable DPS is being nerfed, and in order to get the new sustainable DPS i have to take a PrE that costs way too much and adds way too little, and my previous CC is becoming less valuable.

the *actual* situation is more like we previously had a car that was working just fine, then the rules changed and the car was no longer street legal, but we were promised a new car that was different but still awesome to compensate. then, they took away both our old car and our new car, and gave us a scooter. and apparently, according to some, we're supposed to be happy about that.

simply put, the one thing that was actually going to be left to sorcerers (barring the ones with 3 wizard past lives and a bard past life and every last scrap of DC-improving gear in the game) after U9 was released was significantly powerful spell DPS. now they're taking that away too, leaving us with... err... oh. nothing... that's right. we get to be second-class citizens to the wizards.

we got promised new toys because our old ones were getting thrown in the garbage, and instead we're getting crappy versions of our old toys that won't work as well. **** right i'm ****ed.

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Originally Posted by Qezuzu

So if devs are made aware that LitII+Air Savant curses make a broken weapon even more broken, they're not allowed to change it?



Well they didn't. It's either not being able to change the update because "it's supposed to be a preview server" and releasing the update now, or fix it beforehand and keep the game more balanced.

And:

Everyone, whether or not Savants were better before, the PrE still gives you a considerably higher amount of spell DPS and sustainability. Your DPS is as high if not higher than melees, and you can keep it up in the long haul.

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ya so lets just scrap the whole savant curse thing because of one weapon? how about they just make lightning strikes not get enhanced?

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Originally Posted by Jaid314

on the contrary, my sorcerer worked perfectly fine before this update. by which i mean, before they took away my shorter cooldowns, and made my save DCs which were previously good enough instead become worthless in any difficult epics. right now, i can go into pretty near any epic quest on my sorcerer and contribute. next patch? you seriously think there's a lot of people standing around thinking "you know what i need? unsustainable DPS, with a side of really pathetic sustainable DPS! yeah, that's it! and also, i sure hope whoever hits this LFM can't CC worth ****, too!"

between all the changes they've made, my sorcerer is going to be less useful than before the patch. at least when we had the savants, there was some chance people would be glad to have me along because i'd be able to nuke the boss down, and maybe even the occasional nuke while questing so long as i'm careful to [edit: not] run out of SP.

instead, the simple fact is that now my CC is [edit: not] going to be good enough to run the same content i'm running right now, my sustainable damage is only moving up at all because previously it consisted of casting a single persistent AOE per fight and now there's an option to have SLAs (provided you don't mind gimping your options), and my DPS vs single target is basically unchanged from what it could be before this update.

if i gave a **** about 26d6 polar rays, i would already have 25d6 polar rays. right now, it simply isn't worth investing the effort into getting the gear to boost your spell DPS, because it just doesn't do enough DPS for long enough to matter. in the new update... guess what... it still won't be worth the effort. when we had full elemental weakness curse, there was a lot of promise, because it was a big deal. it was something that would actually allow us, after 80 seconds of prep time, do some real damage. it was something that would actually maybe cause people to let more than 2 arcanes into their raids ever.

instead, my previous sustainable DPS is being nerfed, and in order to get the new sustainable DPS i have to take a PrE that costs way too much and adds way too little, and my previous CC is becoming less valuable.

the *actual* situation is more like we previously had a car that was working just fine, then the rules changed and the car was no longer street legal, but we were promised a new car that was different but still awesome to compensate. then, they took away both our old car and our new car, and gave us a scooter. and apparently, according to some, we're supposed to be happy about that.

simply put, the one thing that was actually going to be left to sorcerers (barring the ones with 3 wizard past lives and a bard past life and every last scrap of DC-improving gear in the game) after U9 was released was significantly powerful spell DPS. now they're taking that away too, leaving us with... err... oh. nothing... that's right. we get to be second-class citizens to the wizards.

we got promised new toys because our old ones were getting thrown in the garbage, and instead we're getting crappy versions of our old toys that won't work as well. **** right i'm ****ed.

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Your sorc will be better with the prestige. You will have significantly powerful dps. The stacking weaknesses was the least of the tools that gave that except in very rare situations.

Sorry, I can be really blinded here, but I don't understand how Savants are a bad choice in their current state.

Lets say I choose Earth Savant. I get some free acid resistance, bypass acid resistance, get a few cheap spells (if you don't like the spells, just don't use them), deal more damage with most acid spells, get a stronger Flesh to Stone, get bonus hp, and also get a nice hold with a high DC. The downside? Not casting electricity spells. Who cares? I think I can go well with only acid+fire+cold.

Sure, we can complain the nerfs were unnecessary, the SLAs have too long cooldowns, curses do not stack anymore, etc. But this really makes the prestige a bad choice? Take a look at my list above. The prestige is still seriously powerful IMO.

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Originally Posted by Trillea

Yes you do, and it's better than the Yugo, because it's more versatile. You give up a LOT of versatility for this Pre, and in its current state you do not get enough back to make up for it. Sorcs would be better off with 1 more update with no PrE than the current version.

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Not even close. You gain dps with one element and get to choose another of three and could even do a 4th but it's pretty weak due to being opposite element. Before you had 2 elements but no choice as to which ones you preferred. The fact that fire/cold were by far the best is irrelevant you had no choice. Spell changes have made any of the element lines as well as force line good viable dps routes. Versatility comes from choices and you now have that. I've tested three of the 4 savants on lammania pretty extensively now and never really used the weakness ability and it's pretty clear to me that versatility of sorcs has gone up extensively.

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Originally Posted by lppmor

Sorry, I can be really blinded here, but I don't understand how Savants are a bad choice in their current state.

Lets say I choose Earth Savant. I get some free acid resistance, bypass acid resistance, get a few cheap spells (if you don't like the spells, just don't use them), deal more damage with most acid spells, get a stronger Flesh to Stone, get bonus hp, and also get a nice hold with a high DC. The downside? Not casting electricity spells. Who cares? I think I can go well with only acid+fire+cold.

Sure, we can complain the nerfs were unnecessary, the SLAs have too long cooldowns, curses do not stack anymore, etc. But this really makes the prestige a bad choice? Take a look at my list above. The prestige is still seriously powerful IMO.

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^ this. well said man +1

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Originally Posted by Lifespawn

ya so lets just scrap the whole savant curse thing because of one weapon? how about they just make lightning strikes not get enhanced?

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One very, very common weapon. It's not just about the LitII's either. 75% increase in damage instantly with 5 sorcs is just huge. Should be put to 25% non stacking.

But it doesn't matter. The curse still gives you 15% damage. You still get higher damage from CL increases. You still have SLA's. You still have the TierIII abilities.

And Sorcerers are not Wizards. If you want high DC's roll wizard, and if you want better, more sustainable spell DPS go Sorc. But Sorcerers can still get high spell DC's if they tried, they do give up a lot more though.

The PrE is very powerful. Just forget about the curses for a moment and look at everything else.

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Originally Posted by Trillea

If I have a Audi (TR'd wiz), and for a long time you have been saying that you would be buying me a Lamborghini (PrE as it was before the nerf) but you end up buying me a Yugo (PrE as it is now), you expect me to use the Yugo?

No.

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I think expecting the lamborghini versus something more similar to the audi is the problem most people have here. Yes this pre is comparable to either wizard one. They do different things but in terms of power they are all there. Sorc savant prestige is still a large boost in power versus what they have currently.

And I have a TRed Wizard, from bard, which I vow to TR again into Wizard if I get a +4 INT tome to max my DC's (sans completionist). But now I'm inclined to TR into Sorcerer if I get a +4 CHA tome...

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Originally Posted by LeLoric

Your sorc will be better with the prestige. You will have significantly powerful dps. The stacking weaknesses was the least of the tools that gave that except in very rare situations.

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no, my sorcerer *won't* be better with the prestige. my sorcerer will be better with not having to blow a feat on something useless. my sorcerer will be better with not taking a -9 CL to opposing spells, and yes it is a significant cost (water and fire should be obvious to anyone, air savant loses flesh to stone vs anything with SR, earth loses the least (cyclonic blast is the specific spell i'm looking at), but also gains very little.

heck, if i don't take the savant, i don't even have to blow all those AP on maxed out crit enhancements that aren't worth it. 9 AP will max out an entire elemental line as far as i care to bother with, leaving me with lots of other options for using my AP on things that *don't* cost me versatility and options. the whole reason being able to trade spells and having more spell slots on a wizard was never a big deal is specifically that lack of options; losing even more options gives me even *less* useful stuff to load up my spell slots with. that's just not something i'm looking for in a sorcerer right now.

the DPS vs trash on a sorcerer is going to be drastically overshadowed by the DPS of a melee vs trash, unless i blow everything on the trash and have nothing left for the meaningful encounters (which i suppose is fine, because honestly the DPS i'm dealing is nothing special in boss fights anymore either).

so, you go play your savant (if you even *have* a sorcerer). you can be content with your damage that is sub-par to melees, and keep on applying to raids as DPS and see where that gets you. but it doesn't interest me; i'm going to go try something that actually has the tools needed to deal with trash, since the one option casters briefly might have had for dealing with challenging bosses is no longer there.