The Definitive Guide to Barbarians

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Originally Posted by Aaxeyu

Fireball is much more useful than haste at that level. A wizard that wastes SP on haste is doing it wrong. Get potions!



Fireball has waaay more potential than a barb at low/mid levels. It doesn't even compare.

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Fireball has way more potential than a barb at low/mid levels if the caster is willing to grab a great big bunch of mobs, get at least yellow alert and then throw a fireball or two to take them out.

The overwhelming majority of casters at that level can't/won't do that. For everyone that doesn't, there's Haste. For everyone that does, they're probably already soloing that quest.

Edit: Also, AoE spells are significantly less powerful now that criticals are determined per monster rather than per casting. You will now need more fireballs to take out a group of monsters than you had previously.

Finally a reason to read the Barb forums again! Welcome back Shade!

Nice to see you back Shade. Gotta say i Followed your max dps Barbarian build to a key and loved every minute of it. looking forward to more great builds from you. Can't wait to see what you do with your Half-orc monster build. :)

Always a pleasure reading your threads. The barb forums felt empty without your input.! :p

Yayyyy! :D

He is back :)

Barbarians are my favorite class in DDO!

Got a WF Esos wielding one with claw set done for more than 100% Divine Healing amp done and not much can stop a WF tank :D

yes thank you healers :p

And now TRing my ranger into a 18barb/2rog Dwarf TWF with Daxes. Their spell save bonus really helps boost the usefulness of evasion.

I love that as Shade said that this is the only game where this one class can be built the exact same way and DPS + Tank in almost the same setups, slap on some incite and you are good to go!

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Originally Posted by PopeJual

Fireball has way more potential than a barb at low/mid levels if the caster is willing to grab a great big bunch of mobs, get at least yellow alert and then throw a fireball or two to take them out.

The overwhelming majority of casters at that level can't/won't do that. For everyone that doesn't, there's Haste. For everyone that does, they're probably already soloing that quest.

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True, it was broken before scaling. Now it's just silly.

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Originally Posted by PopeJual

Edit: Also, AoE spells are significantly less powerful now that criticals are determined per monster rather than per casting. You will now need more fireballs to take out a group of monsters than you had previously.

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That is true, but considering the low crit chance and crit multiplier you generally have on low/mid levels it doesn't really make a difference. And things die of 1 non-crit fireball anyway.

I'd like to try out a Half Orc Barb when you get around to making one. I plan to TR into one of those from my Dwarf. I like the Barbarian the best out of the dps classes because he's not as easily killed as a rogue or ranger, and if I was a Fighter or Paladin I would make it a meat shield anyway. also I haven't bought the monk yet.

Welcome back Shade. :)

So for all the vets here... do you guys know if the Barbarian active past-life is still extremely useful to get or did they "fix" it ;) in U8 to be just a clicky?

I'm planning on TRing my character back into a Barbarian (Horc this time) and it's looking like I will have to go 18 Barb/ 2 fighter in order to get Stunning Blow and the past life. :(

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Originally Posted by Talesin

Welcome back Shade. :)

So for all the vets here... do you guys know if the Barbarian active past-life is still extremely useful to get or did they "fix" it ;) in U8 to be just a clicky?

I'm planning on TRing my character back into a Barbarian (Horc this time) and it's looking like I will have to go 18 Barb/ 2 fighter in order to get Stunning Blow and the past life. :(

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as of right now 1/15/11 it still gives all the hidden bonuses. its a very worthwhile feat, atleast until its fixed

Is nice to have Shade return... Welcome Back.

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Originally Posted by Shade

Heh, more Barbs playing like me certainly couldn't be a bad thing could it?

Or have I created countless monsters.. Hmm, something to ponder I guess.

Some of the guide is obvious humourous and meant to be taken lightly.. I might edit out some of that later after the guide is more complete as I know some people will take it too seriously.

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I don't know if the game could handle that much testosterone and ego. :rolleyes:

It was obvious to me that some of it was meant humorously, but I'll keep the other stuff in mind.

I think the extra feat for humans serves new barbarians well. Barbarians have 6 more or less "must take" feats: THF, ITHF, GTHF, power attack, improved crit: slash, and cleave (for prerequisite). The choice then is usually whether to go offensive and take stunning blow, or go defensive and take toughness. How to make that decision may not be all that clear for a new player. Being able to take both means that they don't have to make that decision.

Dwarves and WF automatically get +2 con so that's 20 HP, plus they can get an additional +2 con via enhancements but those cost 6 AP. By contrast, the human will get 22 HP from toughness, and taking barb toughness 1 and racial toughness 1 will match (actually, slightly better than) what dwarves/WF get for just 2 AP. The human can then match the AP investment and take tier 2 of each, giving him 20 more HP for the same AP investment. Also, at the beginning, these toughness enhancements give the HP right away whereas the new player will have to level up to enjoy the benefits from additional con. At level 8, dwarves/WF will have gotten 16 HP from their +2 inherent con and +2 con from enhancements, but a human with toughness could have gotten +60 HP from toughness and toughness enhancements.

But I think the strongest part is that the human can take further levels of toughness if he desires. It takes a while for the player to figure out what he wants. So if the player finds that he is dying quite often, i.e. hasn't quite figured out yet how to avoid damage, being able to take more toughness for some more HP will be a boon. As a human he can do this and still use stunning blow offensively; as any other race, the new player is basically screwed in this aspect if he chose stunning blow over toughness, or "tough love" if you want to call it in terms of figuring out how not to die with less HP, or using a feat respec.

So if human is chosen, the options are still on the table -- the new player doesn't have to commit to stunning blow or toughness from the very beginning, and can use both, and get the advantages to both. The disadvantage is that humans will do somewhat less DPS than dwarves and warforged, and barbarians are all about DPS. So it's the age-old debate between versatility and specialization -- the human will be versatile in having stunning blow yet being able to get more HP from enhancements if he finds that he needs it, with the penalty that he is not as specialized in (i.e. does less) DPS. However, DPS is not as big a concern until the later game, which is usually associated with more experienced players, not the new player who is still trying to figure out how not to die in Kobold's New Ringleader.

I'm not sure if there's a right answer. When I first started playing DDO, my friend recommended human for my barbarian for the above reason, and I think that was the right choice for me. Early on in learning the game, having lots of toughness enhancements was definitely helpful, and I get to stunning blow now at the end-game, handy for 'spot' situations such as when the group's caster fails a hold on the enemy caster in epics. Having improved recovery also made healers more forgiving of me when I screwed up. The other choice that I think would've been good for me is dwarf: the spell defense thing is definitely a big plus (human improved recovery makes it easier to heal me when I take damage; dwarven spell defense decreases the damage I take in the first place, by preventing me from being held or helping me make reflex saves, etc.). That combined with the Carnifex -- important for an early player if/when they get it -- makes it a potent combination.

I think the drawback of playing a human is that now, in considering GRing him into an 18/2 fighter (post-Update 5 it seems like the 18/2 will now give better short-term DPS at the expense of less long-term DPS, and hopefully the days of taking four hours to get through the Pit are long over), and as a human I now have an extra feat. With any other race, I think the feats for an 18/2 are pretty clear -- THF, ITHF, GTHF, power attack, imp crit: slash, cleave, toughness, stunning blow, quickdraw -- but as human I'm not sure what the 10th feat would be. An extra toughness, for 20 HP out of 700+? At this point it may have served me better to have started out as a dwarven barbarian, but when I first started, it was not at all clear that I would reach this point -- my character previous to this barb was an elven ranger arcane archer that got all the way up to level 5. This is more of a problem now in considering multiclassing.

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Originally Posted by Shade

Hey remember who did it first..

First Elite ToD I did.. Dwaf tank. Pots used in part 3: zero - healers had mana left over. First elite with zero pots far as I know.

That was also the 1st, 2nd or 3rd elite on Khyber as I recall - somewhere around there anyways as I took a while to ensure we had a perfect group, so very little was known or expected.. Just a very well prepared group.

Countless more have been done since then with the same results. Dwarfs can have very good healing amp too. Easier on a human? Yep. Does it make them a better overall tank? Nah.

One big thing Veterans often seem to forget is saves: Dwarven spells works on pretty much every raidboss ability in the game, and I find it helps a ton. In cases where my Warforged died, my Dwarf survived - and there identical builds.

Human has the same bad saves, well cept +2 wisdom. Some low rolls on some big spells and the humans go down, i've seen it countless times in Shroud and everywhere else that huge reflex save or die damage happens.

So good healing amp + great saves = best overall tank imo.

Human can certainly take the title for cheapest to heal tank tho, ultra high healing amp + multiple radiant servant aura.. Well you'd barely need to use mana, let alone scrolls heh.

I don't discount the power of healing amp - all 4 of my Barbarians have and use every available healing amp item in the game.

Just keep in mind these days the ease of acquire them (especialy leviks or guild buff versions) means that most Dwarves can have very excellent healing amp the same as humans can.

Also keep in mind the racial and build advice is intended for new players. I know I won't be persuading you veterans that are set in your ways.

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Saves are less of an issue for extremely geared players now, as the Epic Envenomed Cloak offers +7 saves (once slotted with Good Luck) and optionally is part of a decent 3-piece DPS increasing set if you can fit it. Plus as stated, you can afford to spend a feat on Toughness without sacrificing Stunning Blow.

You're really underestimated the importance of having a free feat and healing amplification on a barbarian. The best barbarians I've seen were either Human or Half-Orc.

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Originally Posted by bendover

You're really underestimated the importance of having a free feat and healing amplification on a barbarian. The best barbarians I've seen were either Human or Half-Orc.

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I did put like ten excalmation points after BONUS FEAT didn't I?

heh. Personal experiance doesn't argue with the base stats. Perhaps the best barbs on your server prefer the look of humans, that would be a more logical reason why you find that.

On Khyber very few barbarians are humans. Most are actually Warforged, Dwarfs probably a close 2nd. Hell we used to have like 2 entire warforged only guilds at one point.. Each of which had a ton of Barbs.
I dunno about Half-orc yet as I just got back, but I know a couple of my guildies have really good ones.

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Originally Posted by BlackSteel

as of right now 1/15/11 it still gives all the hidden bonuses. its a very worthwhile feat, atleast until its fixed

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I don't like using the word "fixed" when it comes to that.

The nonsense I see Turbine post regarding feats and whats working and whats not is always so inaccurate that I can't accept that they have gotten that right.

The guy who posted that isn't really in charge anyways, it's Eladrins call. 404error is not a dev, he's in QA.

If that happens, it will be most certainly be a nerf.

And probably not one that appears in the release notes. a Madstone style nerf.

They'd probably update the description to then include the fact it improves regular rage too, to make things more confusing. Standard Turbine policy I believe.

Inaccurate descriptions in DDO are the standard, not a bug.

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Originally Posted by Shade

Heh, more Barbs playing like me certainly couldn't be a bad thing could it?

Or have I created countless monsters.. Hmm, something to ponder I guess.

Some of the guide is obvious humourous and meant to be taken lightly.. I might edit out some of that later after the guide is more complete as I know some people will take it too seriously.

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Oh it's too late for that. I'm already well on my way towards achieving Axer status! :D


Anyway, I've got some nice pointers for you for when you create your THF Half-Orc Barbarian. I recommend not taking the Orcish Power Rage II enhancement when you come across it. The AP cost is pretty steep and will likely bring you to an odd total. Those APs are better spent towards extending rage (or haste boost if part Fighter) either through CON or other enhancements.

For the max DPS ideal endgame gear setup, I'm wearing 4 sets:

* Greater Might of the Abishai
- Helm (Yellow Augment: GFL)
- Cloak (Green Augment: Exceptional CON +1)
- Boots (Green Augment: Good Luck +2)
* Greater Vulkoor's Might
- Epic Gloves of the Claw
- Epic Bracers of the Claw
* Ravager Set [Exceptional STR +2]
* Shintao Set [Healing Amplification 20%]

With this setup, you get even more STR with an even STR score, massive healing amplification (~156% if my math is right), and GFL combined with the cloak gives you a total of +50 HP. For armor, I'll be alternating between Marilith + Litany and Red Scale + Bloodstone, when appropriate. Goggles remain the perfect slot for wearing either a 45 HP GS item or Tharne's.

For tanking situations, I will wear a slightly different setup once I get my Frenzied Berserker ring.

Everyone who argues for Human barbs always go for the healing amp and being able to get both toughness and stunning blow- argument, which is valid. What they never seem to take in to calcs, however, is that humans do not get Tactics enhancements to improve that stunning blow.
My stunning blow with full tactics on a WF barb is at ~50, if you had a human with the exact same build gear as my barb you'd have 3 less, and everyone knows that stunning blow isn't worth a dang if you can't be a stunner in epics and with a ~47 stunning blow you're not stunning that well. Since everything else dies to fast, things that don't die fast in non epics are not stunnable anyway.

[Now, how many times did I say Stun]

/Ali

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Originally Posted by Wraith_Sarevok

Anyway, I've got some nice pointers for you for when you create your THF Half-Orc Barbarian. I recommend not taking the Orcish Power Rage II enhancement when you come across it. The AP cost is pretty steep and will likely bring you to an odd total. Those APs are better spent towards extending rage (or haste boost if part Fighter) either through CON or other enhancements.

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Yea i went over the half orc enhancements pretty carefully in the new web-based planner.

In light of that I have already planned 3 seperate half-orc builds, designed with different players in mind. (New player, Veteran, ultimate TR Veteran)

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Originally Posted by sephiroth1084

Was this a guide to playing barbarians or a "How to Roll Like Axer" thread? :rolleyes:


I convinced a guildy to roll a half-elf barbarian recently with the monk dilettante feat. Basically, the character will have the DPS of a human barbarian, -1 feat, but will end up with something like 450% healing amp, which amounts to a barbarian that can be easily healed with, like, CSW wands.

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Even with a 18/2 split of paladin/barb (which i would not call a barbarian but paladin) and a gs 30% weapon and all the other amps, no he wouldnt get near 450%. I think youve got it mixxed with solar phoenix build which is not a barbarian. But you could easily get to 200% amp. And thats pretty good too