True Paladin

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Originally Posted by Mhykke

Slow down, I didn't go that far.

I agree in one raid, or a few raids, letting 11 others carry you won't matter. After a while? People are going to remember "oh, that's joe shmoe, he hasn't done anything in any raid I've ever been in, take the other guy"......

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That will most likely not happen, as a previous poster said it will go unnoticed if at all.
What are they gonna say?
I do not believe my 2 s&b builds are on some blacklist somewhere for using shields!

If someone said "In the future your raid party will wipe because you chose to carry a shield and heal people." maybe then I would switch tactics. 'Cause I would hate for my gimpness to bring down an entire quest for 11 others.

Perhaps Mhykke would like to see some sort-of "output meter" for quests to make sure everyone is doing their part.

Look busy Mhykke is coming. :eek:

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Originally Posted by Mr_Ed7

That will most likely not happen, as a previous poster said it will go unnoticed if at all.
What are they gonna say?
I do not believe my 2 s&b builds are on some blacklist somewhere for using shields!

If someone said "In the future your raid party will wipe because you chose to carry a shield and heal people." maybe then I would switch tactics. 'Cause I would hate for my gimpness to bring down an entire quest for 11 others.

Perhaps Mhykke would like to see some sort-of "output meter" for quests to make sure everyone is doing their part.

Look busy Mhykke is coming. :eek:

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If you don't think people notice if, for example, someone is swinging at portals in part 1 while holding a shield, then you're only fooling yourself.

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Originally Posted by Mhykke

If you don't think people notice if, for example, someone is swinging at portals in part 1 while holding a shield, then you're only fooling yourself.

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Yeah 'cuz that would be a deal-breaker.

I never noticed, I will ask around though.

If I did notice, I would be like "ooo That guy wait till I ...that son of @#$! shield-user..."

yeah I am gonna have to look for that. That would make me mad.

If you were a true paladin you would not be happy by making other people do your work. A true paladin would never be a burden on his/her party. A true paladin would be trying to ease the burden of others in his party by helping them through. A true paladin would put in more effort than any other party member, without letting them know it. Does your build really sound like a TRUE paladin?

I agree don't splash if that is your choice.

The real problem with an ineffective build is that everyone usually has one (my first paladin is S&B with a lot in the heal skill, I think with items his STR is 24!! He even uses bastard swords.*) and occasionally you join a group where nearly everyone has brought their gimp. Suddenly it is 2 or 3 people trying to prop up the 10 gimp builds. People remember those groups.

* I bet he never gets accepted into a group on Khyber again now that his gimpiness is known.

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Originally Posted by SteeleTrueheart

If you were a true paladin you would not be happy by making other people do your work. A true paladin would never be a burden on his/her party. A true paladin would be trying to ease the burden of others in his party by helping them through. A true paladin would put in more effort than any other party member, without letting them know it. Does your build really sound like a TRUE paladin?

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Ouch!!


Someone took a morality beating...... Left hook to the Crystal-Chin!

First thing Mr_Ed7... people DO notice sub-optimal players. S&B on a portal is a great example. I remember people who do that. It shows a lack of understanding or lack of care or both.

If you want to heal, raise dead, and do that super useful 1000 hitpoint heal every 10 minutes on a Paladin you are going to be spending so many action points on that junk that your DPS will be incredibly low.

TWF builds definately top the charts for DPS in this game. Well built and DPS focused THF builds can also do great damage. S&B are at an immediate 50% disadvantage to a TWF, and about a 10%-25% disadvantage to a S&B fighter. If you can't max out your Exalted Smites, Divine Sacrifice, and Divine Might... then you are already even lower than the next S&B pure paladin. Which means, the build you are proposing in this thread will fall right in with the absolute lowest DPS builds of the game.

In a raid the "other 11" don't need your LoH or your Cure Criticals and they don't need you to stand in a door (where are all these doors in the raids your running?). They need you to be able to do a lot of DPS, Tank, Heal, or Nuke. Some raids need them all and others only need some of those 4 Archetypes. Build to one of those archetypes first before branching out into something else and no-one will tear down the build. If you build something that doesn't fill any of the 4 primary archetypes then you really aren't useful.

Val

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Originally Posted by Mr_Ed7

Yeah 'cuz that would be a deal-breaker.

I never noticed, I will ask around though.

If I did notice, I would be like "ooo That guy wait till I ...that son of @#$! shield-user..."

yeah I am gonna have to look for that. That would make me mad.

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DudeManBuddyGuy. Listen up.

If you don't find it preferable to carry two One handed weapons against shroud portals on your Sword and Board character, you have missed a large boat that had many many people on it, and they were going somewhere really nice.

Shroud portals don't fight back. A shield is the WORST thing you could have in your offhand while beating on one.

Eitehr up your AC against a stationary mob that has no attacks OR:

Double your DPS with an offhand weapon...

Or Get 1.5 times your STR bonus with a two handed weapon.

Where was it hard to figure that out?

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Originally Posted by Mr_Ed7

Yeah 'cuz that would be a deal-breaker.

I never noticed, I will ask around though.

If I did notice, I would be like "ooo That guy wait till I ...that son of @#$! shield-user..."

yeah I am gonna have to look for that. That would make me mad.

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Who said anything about making people mad?

People don't get mad at the guy. They make fun of him. Sorry to be so blunt, sorry if it upsets you, but people make fun of the guy who can't comprehend a simple thing like

portals are hit on a 2+, swing 2 weapons or a two handed weapon on them

People will look at the guy next to them holding a shield hitting the portals and think "that guy doesn't realize the shield's doing nothing for him there?".....Then their next thought will be "this guy doesn't know much about the game". Then, if they group with him a few more times, eventually there will be a point, if they're party leader, where they take someone else over that guy, or they remember that guy when a party leader asks if anyone knows him.

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Originally Posted by Valezra

First thing Mr_Ed7... people DO notice sub-optimal players. S&B on a portal is a great example. I remember people who do that. It shows a lack of understanding or lack of care or both.

If you want to heal, raise dead, and do that super useful 1000 hitpoint heal every 10 minutes on a Paladin you are going to be spending so many action points on that junk that your DPS will be incredibly low.

TWF builds definately top the charts for DPS in this game. Well built and DPS focused THF builds can also do great damage. S&B are at an immediate 50% disadvantage to a TWF, and about a 10%-25% disadvantage to a S&B fighter. If you can't max out your Exalted Smites, Divine Sacrifice, and Divine Might... then you are already even lower than the next S&B pure paladin. Which means, the build you are proposing in this thread will fall right in with the absolute lowest DPS builds of the game.

In a raid the "other 11" don't need your LoH or your Cure Criticals and they don't need you to stand in a door (where are all these doors in the raids your running?). They need you to be able to do a lot of DPS, Tank, Heal, or Nuke. Some raids need them all and others only need some of those 4 Archetypes. Build to one of those archetypes first before branching out into something else and no-one will tear down the build. If you build something that doesn't fill any of the 4 primary archetypes then you really aren't useful.

Val

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Or perhaps some mix of the above...

I have been so useful to this point in the game that I find it hard to believe you. If I get to that point where I can not hit the portal WITH my shield when I want to, I will retire the character, perhaps retire from the game enitrely, if it gets to the point you say. For no matter what you say, I say that I do it for fun, I do it for character background and flavor, and those reasons sir trump any uber min/maxing of number stacking reasons that you have for me to choose otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Mr_Ed7

For no matter what you say, I say that I do it for fun, I do it for character background and flavor, and those reasons sir trump any uber min/maxing of number stacking reasons that you have for me to choose otherwise.

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Again, that's great. Build anything you want and have fun with it.

Just don't expect validation from others on anything and everything you decide to make.

The times I have been in the shroud, my first completion was done while playing my towershield wearing Dwarf. Why after using it for 16 levels would I switch it?
I will hit the portal with two-weapons when I go in there with my 2 weapon guy...

I mean I am LOL here, so they don't like the Dwarf, I can always switch characters..can't I lol!

We completed it btw.

but they still tell stories of the Dwarf with the shield...BHWAA hahaha!!!1 :D

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Originally Posted by Mhykke

Again, that's great. Build anything you want and have fun with it.

Just don't expect validation from others on anything and everything you decide to make.

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I never wanted validation?

Who made you the Validator? You need a laminator for that, yeah?

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Originally Posted by Mr_Ed7

The times I have been in the shroud, my first completion was done while playing my towershield wearing Dwarf. Why after using it for 16 levels would I switch it?
I will hit the portal with two-weapons when I go in there with my 2 weapon guy...

I mean I am LOL here, so they don't like the Dwarf, I can always switch characters..can't I lol!

We completed it btw.

but they still tell stories of the Dwarf with the shield...BHWAA hahaha!!!1 :D

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No... you mean they shortmanned it with 11 guys and dragged you through.

Let me ask you... do you join pugs at all? If so does it not bother you that you will be contributing almost nothing in a typical shroud with your proposed healing door stop paladin?

Val

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Originally Posted by Valezra

No... you mean they shortmanned it with 11 guys and dragged you through.

Let me ask you... do you join pugs at all? If so does it not bother you that you will be contributing almost nothing in a typical shroud with your proposed healing door stop paladin?

Val

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you give me too much credit

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Originally Posted by Mr_Ed7

I never wanted validation?

Who made you the Validator? You need a laminator for that, yeah?

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Of course you did. That's why you posted your "experience" on the forums. What, were you hoping for zero replies? If you weren't hoping for feedback, don't start off with a question like "how about", or don't post your views on what a class "should be".

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Originally Posted by Mr_Ed7

How about a ......
A Paladin should be ...

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Again, sorry you're getting upset. Just being honest.

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Originally Posted by Mhykke

Of course you did. That's why you posted your "experience" on the forums. What, were you hoping for zero replies? If you weren't hoping for feedback, don't start off with a question like "how about", or don't post your views on what a class "should be".




Again, sorry you're getting upset. Just being honest.

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No ones upset. Were you?

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Originally Posted by Valezra

No... you mean they shortmanned it with 11 guys and dragged you through.

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Not that I'm all down with Mr Ed but just because someone doesn't do maximum damage on a portal doesn't mean they are doing no damage on a portal or that he didn't bring anything to the party. A well timed paladin LOH or a lot of wand healing can really help a struggling party and if he throws out some DPS as well all the better.

A lot of groups easily overpower the shroud which only goes to show you don't need to be the best to be effective.

Now his refusal to use a Two hander or off hand just for flavor... silly in my book but and more so to be indignant about it but its not like he just sat in the corner, he was up there doing about 80% of the damage he possible could on the thing. Not great but hardly a total absence or a drag on the party.

Sorry but don't say your trying to get into the flavor of your build...cause as the earlier poster said...NO Paladin would dream of letting anyone in his group outwork him cause he's to lazy to equip 2 weapons.

People need to simply ignore the OP here cause all he is wanting is validation that its ok to be lay and let the 11 other "guildies" do his work for him.

Great you beat the shroud with your dorf with a shield. Wonderful...glad you were able to justify the fact you made everyone else in the group do your work.

S&B is great and I would never drop anyone for it. On the other hand if that S&B toon was shield bashing a portal? Wow...quick way to learn about those peeps you don't wanna shroud with again. Takes a LOT to get on my blacklist...usually a bad attitude but this would certainly make it.

Good luck though I hope you have fun and I hope you have a patient guild

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Originally Posted by Mr_Ed7

No ones upset. Were you?

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You're not upset? Your actions betray your words.

Starting new threads, using capital letters, please....just stop it already.

I came up with a preliminary build as I understand it. I considered taking Maximize to buff my Cures more but I didn't really want to lose Skill Focus: Heal. Let me know what you think man.

The Doorstop Paladin

Val