What exactly do these buffs work against?

I am with Taureen - I cast 4-5 mass spells - SR, DW, Circle, Prot elements and occasinally Aid just because it is there. I cast all these because I want them on myself and the mass spell isn't that many more SP than the individual. For 40SP of my 2000+ I think it is a good investment in any quest.

Oh and Flesh to Stone also has an SR check....not sure if the one cast by madness orbs gets an SR check (the most common source of this I have seen) but I thought it should go on the list as well.

Also blindness has an SR check but most people should have a blindness immunity item (or pot) by the time you get this as a mass spell.

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Originally Posted by taurean430

I can only respond by saying that I don't build my melee that way. None of them require buffs from others and become helpless without babysitters.

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Well the thing is, most of the buffs needed can be acquired as clickies or potions, you don't need someone following and buffing you with them.

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Originally Posted by taurean430

While it is true that the min/maxers ignore what would essentially make them useless in pnp - it is also true that being able to reasonably see after yourself has a value all it's own.

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PnP arguments are always weak here because it's such a different beast from DDO. DDO is an extreme monty haul campaign while PnP usually not so much.

Some of the stuff my own melee carries for example:

Lesser Silver Flame potions
Cure Serious Wounds potions
Lesser Restoration Potions
Remove Curse potions
Remove Blindness potions
~100-200 heal scrolls
~50 raise dead scrolls
~50 gh scrolls, Planar Gird and Draconic Necklace
2x 7min deathward clickies
Silver Flame amulet with 10 charges
Mask of Comedy (for countering crushing despair)
several wands of resist energy (11th)
11x haste clickies
3x rage clickies
Mantle of the Worldshaper for spell absorbing
3x invis clickies
True Seeing on two different goggles
wand of recitation

I didn't list cure disease or poison potions because the said character is a monk and has no need for them.

Now granted my toon has a lot of gear, but on the other hand, most of the things I listed are rather easy to get. Only wands and scrolls require UMD, SF pots need a lot of Silver Flame favor. Others can be gotten by running a few different quests until you have the item or from random chests (mostly wands). All potions and scrolls are avaible from vendors.

So the important buffs I'm left without are: Freedom of Movement and Protection from Evil.

Protection from Evil is something every arcane and divine should carry.

Freedom of Movement is something every divine and bard should carry.

PfE is available as wands, though ~10th lvl wands seem rather rare.

So what we're left with is Freedom of Movement which is also available in the form of atleast two different items and cookies. This is by far the most difficult buff to get without a divine caster or a bard in the party but it IS available for those who want to get it.

I don't know about you, but considering that almost everything will save is good for is blockable by items almost anyone can easily farm, I don't really consider it worth the build points/action points/item slots to specificly raise your will save.

And even disregarding all of that, GH (fear immunity), Freedom of Movement, PfE and Deathward are all some of the most important buffs in the game which means any arcane/divine worth their salt will be carrying them which in turn means that they're easily available in most parties and your investment in will save is of little use.

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Originally Posted by taurean430

I would also add that in the overwhelming majority of quests in this game, players will not encounter CR 30+ casting mobs. Therefore it still has a value, no?

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Yes, just like I said it does.

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Originally Posted by sweez

LoB casts symbol of death.

Spell resistance is basically useless at end-game, other than for griefing players who want holy aura :p In leveling content it can be handy I guess, if you don't have access to fom/dw.

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People that want Holy Aura.....I never really got this. The +4 AC and resists are usually alreayd covered by your gear (or should be) by the time you get to the level to cast the spell. The blindness component is nice but hard to time in any reliable fashion....so is it the ' immunity to enchantment and charm spells.' Which is pretty much covered by Magic Circle, FOM and other regular mass buffs.

Correct me if I am wrong but in what situations would you regularly need this spell. It's in my bar and other than the initial swarm in Part 4 of Shroud, I rarely if ever cast it.

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Originally Posted by Viisari

Freedom of Movement is something every divine and bard should carry.

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Add rangers in there please - super frustrating to have a Ranger in shroud and they can't do Fire and FOM on the group saving us all time and SP.

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Originally Posted by Spoonwelder

People that want Holy Aura.....I never really got this. The +4 AC and resists are usually alreayd covered by your gear (or should be) by the time you get to the level to cast the spell. The blindness component is nice but hard to time in any reliable fashion....so is it the ' immunity to enchantment and charm spells.' Which is pretty much covered by Magic Circle, FOM and other regular mass buffs.

Correct me if I am wrong but in what situations would you regularly need this spell. It's in my bar and other than the initial swarm in Part 4 of Shroud, I rarely if ever cast it.

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Holy Aura's boosts STACK. It's incredibly helpful for areas where you take a lot of spell or trap based damage, like eVoN6 and all levels of DQ (the blades)

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Originally Posted by Spoonwelder

Add rangers in there please - super frustrating to have a Ranger in shroud and they can't do Fire and FOM on the group saving us all time and SP.

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I think rangers are technically divines too, but yeah, rangers and paladins both have a bunch of useful buffs.

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People that want Holy Aura.....I never really got this. The +4 AC and resists are usually alreayd covered by your gear (or should be) by the time you get to the level to cast the spell.

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Holy Aura stacks with your +5 resistance item...

Hmm - read the spell years ago saw deflection on AC and enhancement bonus on save and assumed they wouldn't stack. Obviously not WAI but no change in years means it is working.

So Holy aura goes in the rotation every time I buff and right after SR goes on.