So can a dev tell me why to play a savant now?

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Originally Posted by Matuse

With Savants, maybe we'll finally see some variety.

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The variety will be that sorcs will be tring into wizzies, melees or being deleted. The playerbase always gravitates towards the effective, which a caster with low dc's and limitied ability to cast opposing school spells with no significant benefit will not be.

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Originally Posted by Darkrok

I'm actually toying with the idea of looking at Everquest 1 again just for old time's sake. :)

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We should all log onto one of the zek servers and have it out.

Then join some time period based guilds who are still raiding content from the old expansions, suspending their xp so they can still play in that specific time period / expansion with the same gear.

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Originally Posted by Thrudh

Heh, after five years.... THIS is the change that's going to make you quit?

Let's offer some feedback to the devs without going crazy...

They probably swung the pendulum too far in one direction... Let's see if we can get them to swing it back a little...

They've been pretty responsive to feedback for the last couple of weeks on Update 9... let's offer some more without going ape-**** crazy

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I, for one, agree this is the straw that broke the camel's back. I just cancelled my VIP sub, and if this goes live as-is, I may stop playing altogether. This is the PrE that I have been looking forward to since they announced what the PrEs for the classes would be. This is what I wanted to make my main character, and while I don't necessarily want her to be OVERpowered, I don't want her to be nerfed either, and that's what this PrE as it stands is.

Well... lets see....

You get discounts to a few basic spells.

This is strictly a benefit

You get a debuff that grants you additional damage on your spells

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This is strictly a benefit

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You gain additional spell like powers not available on the spell list

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This is strictly a benefit

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You gain additional caster levels with various spells

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This is strictly a benefit

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You loose caster level on spells of an opposing element

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This can be avoided by not using spells of that element so it is effectively a reduced spell selection, a penalty but one all sorcerers essentially wrestle with since they have a mostly fixed spell list.

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So there you go, if you want those benefits you spend the AP on them, if not, then you don't. I suspect nearly every sorcerer that wants to do damage casting will select one of these.

The notion that you would quit because you don't want to take a PRE strikes me as crazy.

I would've been fine with a tiny nerf to a few savants, but something like this wrecks the whole PRE

Yes, the new savant PrEs are terrible, but guys, the devs don't have to stop and respond to every single rage thread on the boards. If you don't like them, don't take them. Go ahead and clearly explain in one of the many MANY pre-existing threads what you think is wrong with the PrEs, but threads like this are completely unnecessary, and frankly, a bit rude.

...people say they're quitting because a new thing was nerfed before it became live? What if you were told that Savants let you cast a single curse that doubled incoming elemental damage, then they changed their mind to balance it and lowered the debuff before they even coded it?

The product was modified before it was made available. That's a process of developing. This happens all the time. The only change is that players knew about and tested it before hand. And hey, based on new player input, they might raise the debuff but still disallow stacking. Like one tick of 25% vulnerability (that's my suggestion btw).

So stop nerdraging about getting a neat new toy that could be better. And consider that you still get:-

• Ability to cast CL 28 Polar Rays
• 15% increase in damage before all other maths are taken into account
• Low cost SLA's
• Earthgrab
• Burnination
• Abundant step
• Jack Frost's Molestation
• Higher party DPS with elemental weapons (LitII. 75% increase in LitII meant and Air Savant could have completely replaced a bard on lower-DR bosses. Now it can't)
• And everything the wonderful post above me said

So stop the /cry and play with your new toy. It's not as good as the old one, but you can still enjoy it if you try. There's a lot of boring PrE's that are still good, and this is one that at least has some fun features.

Debuff should be a bit higher though, or at least have a far lower cooldown.

And remove echoes of power after level 12 so SLA's don't have to be nerfed. Absolute worst change in what is IMO a good update.

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Originally Posted by memnir

while I Have No Doubt They can... I Also Have No Doubt They won't.

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+1

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Originally Posted by sigtrent

You gain additional caster levels with various spells

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If they ever fix this to apply to all the spells it should then we are golden...

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Originally Posted by Chette

Yes, the new savant PrEs are terrible, but guys, the devs don't have to stop and respond to every single rage thread on the boards. If you don't like them, don't take them. Go ahead and clearly explain in one of the many MANY pre-existing threads what you think is wrong with the PrEs, but threads like this are completely unnecessary, and frankly, a bit rude.

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I must ask how this is rude to you?

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Originally Posted by Kamo

I must ask how this is rude to you?

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Because there are already multiple threads on savants, yet people seem to think they are owed a personal response from a dev for every complaint that they have. Maybe the devs would be better off spending their time assessing the classes strengths and weaknesses than responding to umpteen different threads.

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Originally Posted by Chette

Because there are already multiple threads on savants, yet people seem to think they are owed a personal response from a dev for every complaint that they have. Maybe the devs would be better off spending their time assessing the classes strengths and weaknesses than responding to umpteen different threads.

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While this is true, I still see how this offends you personally. Although the complete lack of Dev response AT ALL is ticking me off more than a little.

Yo dawg, i herd you like nerfs...

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Originally Posted by Trillea

While this is true, I still see how this offends you personally. Although the complete lack of Dev response AT ALL is ticking me off more than a little.

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I never said I was offended.

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Originally Posted by Chette

I never said I was offended.

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Most people don't say something is rude unless they are offended.

This pretty much sums it up right here...

http://i.imgur.com/bVeE4.jpg
(via Reddit)

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Originally Posted by Trillea

Most people don't say something is rude unless they are offended.

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Really? I am perfectly capable of observing when I believe somebody is being discourteous to another. It need not be directed at me.

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Originally Posted by Chette

Because there are already multiple threads on savants, yet people seem to think they are owed a personal response from a dev for every complaint that they have. Maybe the devs would be better off spending their time assessing the classes strengths and weaknesses than responding to umpteen different threads.

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They need only respond to 1. We are but giving them options to choose from.
They wont respond any and we know this. They like having a job more than giving us a stright answer.

It is more a nerf than anything else lets give you -9 lvls on all opposing spells that works perfect lets give you the +3 lvls to element x is not working for every 1% gained a 2% loss would be fair IMHO but now its 3% for 10%

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Originally Posted by Chette

Because there are already multiple threads on savants, yet people seem to think they are owed a personal response from a dev for every complaint that they have. Maybe the devs would be better off spending their time assessing the classes strengths and weaknesses than responding to umpteen different threads.

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The devs would definitely be better off if they discussed the changes with the player base. DDO is a collaborative effort - without devs we may as well be in a chat room, without players they may as well be in a comp sci class. If you want to talk about rudeness, the message that players' concerns aren't even worth a forum post in response is extremely rude.

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Originally Posted by Qezuzu

...people say they're quitting because a new thing was nerfed before it became live? What if you were told that Savants let you cast a single curse that doubled incoming elemental damage, then they changed their mind to balance it and lowered the debuff before they even coded it?

The product was modified before it was made available. That's a process of developing. This happens all the time. The only change is that players knew about and tested it before hand. And hey, based on new player input, they might raise the debuff but still disallow stacking. Like one tick of 25% vulnerability (that's my suggestion btw).

So stop nerdraging about getting a neat new toy that could be better. And consider that you still get:-

• Ability to cast CL 28 Polar Rays
• 15% increase in damage before all other maths are taken into account
• Low cost SLA's
• Earthgrab
• Burnination
• Abundant step
• Jack Frost's Molestation
• Higher party DPS with elemental weapons (LitII. 75% increase in LitII meant and Air Savant could have completely replaced a bard on lower-DR bosses. Now it can't)
• And everything the wonderful post above me said

So stop the /cry and play with your new toy. It's not as good as the old one, but you can still enjoy it if you try. There's a lot of boring PrE's that are still good, and this is one that at least has some fun features.

Debuff should be a bit higher though, or at least have a far lower cooldown.

And remove echoes of power after level 12 so SLA's don't have to be nerfed. Absolute worst change in what is IMO a good update.

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Sorry but no dice Lamania is a PREVIEW server they have said this many times it is not a test server thats what mourlands is for why should we continue to test things for them they should have this figured out right? if lamania isn't a "Test" server.

How do all these things make it to the Preview server and don't get fixed or changed before then? Whats the point of a test server if they don't test things but we do on lam and live?

Preview is for checking out content catching any glaring bugs in quest design so they don't make it to live which they tend to do anyway.


I was mad about the intimidate changes because my intimisorc that doesn't swing a weapon would be screwed people talked about it and convinced me that the Savant will allow me to do enough damage to maintain aggro. Now they screw the saving grace of my fav char again i have very low hopes that my char will beable to keep aggro with just one curse and most of the good damage spells besides polar ray being negated by mantles.