Swing Speed, ESos, Twitch & Jump Videos

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Originally Posted by Shade

No one here is making excuses except you.

We have nothing to make them for. We understand the system because we actaully play it.

You come here to put others down because you personally enjoy a diferent style of play on your main characters and have care for this particular one. You make the excuses for that.

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Please....making statements about my lack of playing is very annoying and simply not true.

There's all this whine over the forums about the nerf, but so much of it is exagerrated to such a great degree.

Yes, SoS took a nerf. Was a +10 greatsword with an 18-20/x4 crit range really not overpowered, even for an Epic weapon? Looking at the nerfed version of the sword, it still looks pretty crazy.

Yes, twitching took a nerf, but only about the same amount as all the other TWF styles got.

What else is there? Attack speed for Barbs didn't change. Paladins got slightly slower, but gained the Double Strike ability which seems to be a fair compensation so far since it allows for more smites.

I'm still not seeing where the speed got nerfed. Madstone rage? That's a relatively minor decrease, and madstone boots still have that nice ability to boost strength by +4.

But...I forgot. All these nerfs are a major thing. How can we possibly kill anything now that we deal 0 damage. Because killing a rednamed monster out in 12 hits opposed to 10, and each of those hits taking .25 seconds longer is such a terrible tragedy. Really...we're all doomed.


Btw. Do you really think that the eardweller will be easier to get? They really just added it to more quests, and only the quests where you enter the dreamworld, which just makes sense. All it really does is make it less boring to get, since players won't have to do Eye of the Titan a hundred times.

Edit: I will give Hydro some pos rep for making and posting these videos. And to make amends for this hijack of the thread.

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Originally Posted by Wizard_Zero

Can I get the gear set up please? Mine currently is:

Telvi's Sash, Superior Ice Lore Scepter, Eardweller, Blue Dragonscale Armor = About a 600 damage and 1750 on a crit.

Only thing I don't have is a ToD complete set for an extra .25% crit multiplier since Arcane Lore and Arch Mage set bonus don't stack.

I don't know what else I could get to make it hit 2500 crit.

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Do you also have maximize and empower running along with the fire/cold enhancements?

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Originally Posted by oberon131313

Shade is neglecting to mention that his "not even maxed damage" sorc has the capstone, the epic wan from sentinels (that is most of what you are missing) and probably the full archmage set bonus from TOD.

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Ahh yes, but he does not have the Eardweller, which, without it, is not considered "Maxed damage" to me

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Originally Posted by oberon131313

Shade is neglecting to mention that his "not even maxed damage" sorc has the capstone, the epic wand from sentinels (that is most of what you are missing)

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Cool, ty for the reply. I didn't think the Eardweller would stack with that Wand, since it's not stacking with anything else. Guess I'll start grinding for that wand.

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Originally Posted by Coldin

Attack speed for Barbs didn't change.

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Really you said you were going to stop.
You have no idea about the barbarian class, What nerfs are happening, or much anything at all these videos are demonstrating, so why do you continue to put them down wiht conjecture and talk about things like you are the authority on them?

Fact: Barbarian's who use madstone attack speed was nerfed by over 15% this patch. Actaully every full BAB class that uses it is being nerfed by as much, if not more. I guess you haven't a single one? mm your signature shows some.. Perhaps you just never logged on lamannia to even try.

To me it "feels" closer to 20-30% nerf. The videos show that. Playing the game shows that.

You can't see it because you don't play one, so really. Stop.

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Originally Posted by Wizard_Zero

Cool, ty for the reply. I didn't think the Eardweller would stack with that Wand, since it's not stacking with anything else. Guess I'll start grinding for that wand.

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The wand gives +1 to caster level when casting Polar Ray, which since it scales past 20, increases the base damage on it. That's the important part of the wand, as nothing else offers that.

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Originally Posted by Shade

Really you said you were going to stop.
You have no idea about the barbarian class, What nerfs are happening, or much anything at all these videos are demonstrating, so why do you continue to put them down wiht conjecture and talk about things like you are the authority on them?

Fact: Barbarian attack speed was nerfed by over 15% this patch.

To me it "feels" closer to 20-30% nerf. The videos show that. Playing the game shows that.

You can't see it because you don't play one, so really. Stop.

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Please show me where it says in any release notes or Dev comments that attack speed is slower with THF, and then I will be glad to say you are right.

Edit: Ah, now I remember. Eladrin mentioned that Barbarians were getting a hidden Alacrity bonus with their capstone. And that bug got fixed with this mod. So...your attack speed decrease was just a bug being fixed.

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Originally Posted by Coldin

Please show me where it says in any release notes or Dev comments that attack speed is slower with THF, and then I will be glad to say you are right.

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It's not THF specific, it's the barbarian capstone fix that he's talking about I believe.

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Originally Posted by Coldin

Please show me where it says in any release notes or Dev comments that attack speed is slower with THF, and then I will be glad to say you are right.

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I don't care what you have to say about whos right.

The devs don't care either.

They don't put nerfs into the release notes.

They delete entire topics that list all of the nerfs that do not break any forum rules too like the one I made. So if I even try to explain it to you, this topic will get deleted as well.

This is not a open forum. We don't have the rights to talk about nerfs openly. The moderators reserve the right to delete any and all topics that discuss them, and they are purposely not put in the release notes.

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ruining the game was just a bug being fixed.

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When the tables are turned, and your favorite class/style is nerfed/deleted/destroyed and the excuse was "bug fix". Remember that you said that. If you haven't the logic to understand how wrong you were now, perhaps then you will understand. I've really had enough of your lack of knowledge on the subject and excuses tho, so this is my last reply to you.

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Originally Posted by nicro

Do you also have maximize and empower running along with the fire/cold enhancements?

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Yup, got everything maxed in enhancements for fire/ice and max+emp.

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Originally Posted by DemonMage

It's not THF specific, it's the barbarian capstone fix that he's talking about I believe.

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*nod* I just remembered that.

Btw Shade. The devs don't like mindless whining. That's why they close threads. Maybe offer some constructive criticism on why the Barbarians should keep their hidden alacrity capstone, or why they should keep glancing blows while moving.

Simply saying, "omg, we got nerfed" does little to sway opinion. Now if you can point to numbers saying "We got nerfed, and now THF frenzied barbarians are behind the damage curve to even S&B rogues" then that's actually saying something.

Sometimes, things need to be nerfed to bring things into balance. That's the price we play for an ever evolving game. If you never want to experience a balance pass (or nerf), stick to single player console games.

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Originally Posted by Coldin

Please show me where it says in any release notes or Dev comments that attack speed is slower with THF, and then I will be glad to say you are right.

Edit: Ah, now I remember. Eladrin mentioned that Barbarians were getting a hidden Alacrity bonus with their capstone. And that bug got fixed with this mod. So...your attack speed decrease was just a bug being fixed.

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:(

I do not belive he has to... it can be seen in the video that the barb under madstone is clearly less effective.

He touts 20% less but what I seen from the attack count is somewhere seems to require more to bring sown that that mob compared to what one may do today against with a barb on live server ... question I have now is do they plan on adjusting epic mob down by a decent %.

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Originally Posted by Emili

:(

I do not belive he has to... it can be seen in the video that the barb under madstone is clearly less effective.

He touts 20% less but what I seen from the attack count is somewhere seems to require more to bring sown that that mob compared to what one may do today against with a barb on live server ... question I have now is do they plan on adjusting epic mob down by a decent %.

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Well, from the release notes and what Eladrin's said, most trash Epic mobs are taking hits to their attack rolls and saves.

Most of the epic content I've run though we seem to go pretty quickly through most trash mobs.

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Originally Posted by Coldin

Well, from the release notes and what Eladrin's said, most trash Epic mobs are taking hits to their attack rolls and saves.

Most of the epic content I've run though we seem to go pretty quickly through most trash mobs.

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Done tried one, I'll play with it some more but so far I do hate the feel of it, feels like we've in far less control of character in combat ... they just do not play anywhere close to near the same. :( Maybe is time to be looking elsewheres.

now, I´m confused..

have they changed the attack speed(not counting madstone-nerf now).. the swing animation speed.

10% slower animation would bug me more then 10% less dmg, truth be told.

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Originally Posted by 78mackson

now, I´m confused..

have they changed the attack speed(not counting madstone-nerf now).. the swing animation speed.

10% slower animation would bug me more then 10% less dmg, truth be told.

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Yes basically every class got a 10% reduced attack speed and animation, 15% if you count Madstone. Only unique builds might not of been affected by this (THF Ranger or rogue).

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Originally Posted by Hydro

Yes basically every class got a 10% reduced attack speed and animation, 15% if you count Madstone. Only unique builds might not of been affected by this (THF Ranger or rogue).

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No, if you are "unique" build you get even more screwed since you forgo the capstone and you lose the later prestige enhancements. ALL the flavor builds just about got annihalated, across the board including fvs and classes that don't seem too directly tied to melee.

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Originally Posted by Shade

I don't care what you have to say about whos right.

The devs don't care either.

They don't put nerfs into the release notes.

They delete entire topics that list all of the nerfs that do not break any forum rules too like the one I made. So if I even try to explain it to you, this topic will get deleted as well.

This is not a open forum. We don't have the rights to talk about nerfs openly. The moderators reserve the right to delete any and all topics that discuss them, and they are purposely not put in the release notes.


When the tables are turned, and your favorite class/style is nerfed/deleted/destroyed and the excuse was "bug fix". Remember that you said that. If you haven't the logic to understand how wrong you were now, perhaps then you will understand. I've really had enough of your lack of knowledge on the subject and excuses tho, so this is my last reply to you.

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Ok dude, I think you might need to sit the next few plays out. Its obvious you are angry, but I have never seen more absolutism out of you than in the past few days, and I have seen ALOT of absolutism out of you in the past. This is getting extreme.

Every single thing anyone has said that doesnt agree with your opinion of the situation, you respond with "you dont know about barbarians" or "you dont know about THF" and this above all else is getting really old.

All this "lack of knowledge" stuff is making you look really immature, and is not only making people not want to take your gloom and doom posts seriously, but it is making all the people who have disagreed with you in the past crawl out of the woodwork just so they can point and laugh. I have really never seen you encourage this type of mentality up until now. People have disagreed with you alot in the past, and I have never seen you with this kind of rage induced attitude in your responses back to them.

People who agree with some of the things in the great nerf of 2010 are not all doing so out of lack of knowledge. As far as the tables being turned, I remember what your responses were in the great WoP debacle of yesteryear. I think the tables are indeed turned. This is why alot of this attention is on you now, because you have championed the THF playstyle shamelessly on the open forums for a few years.

While you have the right to say what youre saying I believe the people who agree with parts of the nerf also have that right, without being shouted down with responses based on "lack of knowledge."

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Originally Posted by 78mackson

now, I´m confused..

have they changed the attack speed(not counting madstone-nerf now).. the swing animation speed.

10% slower animation would bug me more then 10% less dmg, truth be told.

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Rogues don't have a slower animation. They do get about 1 less off hand attack per animation cycle as Eladrin pointed out.

Zeal and the Fighter Capstone got changed to deal 10% doublestrikes instead of a 10% speed bonus, so those basically even out.

The Barbarian capstone got fixed and no longer gives a hidden 10% speed increase, so pure barbs do attack slower.

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Originally Posted by DemonMage

It's not THF specific, it's the barbarian capstone fix that he's talking about I believe.

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The same one that he for the longest time denied existed and ripped on people who said it did?