So, nerfed healing is WAI?

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Originally Posted by Thrudh

Who cares about the numbers? If you can heal the party and still have plenty of SP left over for offensive fun, who cares what the numbers are?

I have a ton more SP today, even the gimpiest melees are now running around with 30% heal amp (which 98% didn't have before U14), and my heals work just fine.

I have no problems so far keeping my party members up AND having plenty of SP to nuke.

Most quests have a ton of shrines too.

I understand that the "numbers" are smaller, but I never looked at heal numbers before U14, and I don't look at them now.

Now blade barrier numbers being smaller you can complain about... That's a nerf. but healing is still easy.. The actual numbers for healing just don't matter that much. What matters is the results.

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Thats a cute mary poppins-ish take on it.

I care about numbers. They tell me whether I need that next tier of life magic to heal myself right up. They tell me whether I need to even slot a devotion Item or can get away with decent amp a ghetto pot and my enhancements points. They tell me what I can do and what I cannot. In game experience trumps it but having a good understanding on what areas I can scrimp on too improve my character elsewhere means alot in the big picture. To anyone who loves their divines anyway. I have seen some of ur build posts and the ones you obviously love go into alot more detail than 'Who cares about the numbers - it works fine'. Do you have the weak/inefficient/ crit healing line too? Most of the peeps I see posting similar comments may have divines in the stable but arnt really divine players.

Keep on advocating.

N

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Originally Posted by nick_robinsonchia

Thats a cute mary poppins-ish take on it.

I care about numbers. They tell me whether I need that next tier of life magic to heal myself right up. They tell me whether I need to even slot a devotion Item or can get away with decent amp a ghetto pot and my enhancements points. They tell me what I can do and what I cannot. In game experience trumps it but having a good understanding on what areas I can scrimp on too improve my character elsewhere means alot in the big picture. To anyone who loves their divines anyway. I have seen some of ur build posts and the ones you obviously love go into alot more detail than 'Who cares about the numbers - it works fine'. Do you have the weak/inefficient/ crit healing line too? Most of the peeps I see posting similar comments may have divines in the stable but arnt really divine players.

Keep on advocating.

N

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Please enlighten us as to what "having divines in the stable but arnt really divine players" actually means.

What you will reply back with of course, is your vision of how you play divines, and anyone else who doesnt do the same is not a divine player - they just have divine characters - which simply isnt true. This kind of stuff gets said regularly on these forums in an attempt to invalidate the opinions of all who disagree with the overexagerated hyperbole perperuated on a daily basis on the forums shortly after each update.

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Originally Posted by nick_robinsonchia

Thats a cute mary poppins-ish take on it.

I care about numbers. They tell me whether I need that next tier of life magic to heal myself right up. They tell me whether I need to even slot a devotion Item or can get away with decent amp a ghetto pot and my enhancements points. They tell me what I can do and what I cannot. In game experience trumps it but having a good understanding on what areas I can scrimp on too improve my character elsewhere means alot in the big picture. To anyone who loves their divines anyway. I have seen some of ur build posts and the ones you obviously love go into alot more detail than 'Who cares about the numbers - it works fine'. Do you have the weak/inefficient/ crit healing line too? Most of the peeps I see posting similar comments may have divines in the stable but arnt really divine players.

Keep on advocating.

N

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I hear what you're saying... I do care about the numbers in most of the game (i.e. DPS), and you make good points about optimizing APs spent and gear used for healing, etc.

If my DPS goes down 30%, I care because I'm killing slower, and I would notice that.... If my healing goes down 30%, but everyone now has easily acquired 30% amp, and PRR and AC and Dodge and I have more SP, and I don't notice it being any harder when healing a group, then I don't care as much about the exact numbers...

Look, 99% of us got a BUFF in mass-heal, because we didn't have any potency items that affected it. Now we do. That's a hugely effective spell, and it got buffed for 99% of us. So it's hard to say that healing has been nerfed, when 99% of the healers in this game just got a buff to mass heal, the most SP-effective healing spell out there.

Single Heal did drop some, but the cure spells went up...

But melee now have AC and PRR and dodge, where before most of them got hit every single time, now they actually get missed now and then.

I maxed out life-magic on my FvS, and I wear the healing gloves from the Reaver raid, and I have zero problems healing any group so far. I still cast offensively all the time, and I don't feel like I'm hurting on SP.

I don't even look at the heal numbers... I look at the red-bars, and they are easy to fill.

I DO look at my Divine Punishment numbers, and my blade barrier numbers, and those going down feel like a nerf...

But healing does not feel like a nerf to me... because the results haven't changed.

I seem to be healing less with heal, but more with mass heal now on my FvS. I must say I like it.

Hi!

Just a note from a guy that has more than 10 lives of divines in his records.

Heal capability has overall increased due to gear amp that has caused us to have more than superior devotion IX from alchemical for example even some Thaumaturgy staff can have 102 Devotion.

But gear is not relevant if you're talking about basic heal power. If my Heal spell hits for less than before it's a nerf whatever others have in their gear and saying that everyone has 30% hamp, because of the PDK gloves so it's ok, is absurd. You can that way be put in a wagon with all those post u11 and pre u12 saying that if you want to do an epic raid carry ,most used, easy acquire eSoS.

I am not commenting on gear or how easy is to gear a toon nowadays. But considering amounts of HP occuring on a most toons in any expac is well above 600. I expect my heal to land and fully heal a dude of at least 600 hp if not top it off. Now I need to use mass heal almost exclusively, and in the land of EE I need quick solutions that will get me par results of 700+ heals not the ones Cures can provide.

Just with that Healing is nerfed.

(I will not mention my cries today to heal greatly geared pally with eclaw + leviks + unyielding ED, with over 1.1k hp and leaving him to leave dps area for a bit because his wf)

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Originally Posted by Truga

Someone call the cops, I stole FvS from Turbine when I reached 2500 favour.

On a more serious note, premium should never be better than free. It can be different. But never better. And that's true for DDO, at least for now.

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I agree with both of these statements. :D

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Originally Posted by Razcar

It's a bit odd that you are discussing an issue, in post after post, that you are evidently not informed about. Of course, in this forum anyone can post about anything, but still.

But I don't have an opinion about you. I don't remember ever seeing a post by you before, to be perfectly honest. You seem very quick to make many insulting and random assumptions about me though.

The post that you quoted was focusing on a particular kind of forum behaviour and contained no "mindless insults" at all. "Grave emotional distress" is certainly not anything I'm feeling over here at my end, either, nor a particular need to "rebel against authorities". I cannot say I see Turbine as an authority at all really, but instead a company whose services I pay for. I do think the nerf to Heals and Divine's Light damage is a both silly and illogical move. Or maybe it was just all a misquote on your behalf?

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Anything else you want to tell me on how this has negative effect on MY CLR and how well I can still heal with him?

You seem to be so well inform about him, so please do enlighten me how I should be in such a nerdrage over this and follow the rest of the sheep and shelve him. I'd ask about your CLR, but appears you do not have one.

Are my Heals not hitting enough or high enough for you? Those that I heal are very happy with the result. But please, why are you not happy with him and his 654 Heals? Why are those that are playing Healers and not frothing at the mouth over this honestly stating they really do not see a difference so wrong and misinformed.

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Originally Posted by Thrudh

I hear what you're saying... I do care about the numbers in most of the game (i.e. DPS), and you make good points about optimizing APs spent and gear used for healing, etc.

If my DPS goes down 30%, I care because I'm killing slower, and I would notice that.... If my healing goes down 30%, but everyone now has easily acquired 30% amp, and PRR and AC and Dodge and I have more SP, and I don't notice it being any harder when healing a group, then I don't care as much about the exact numbers...

Look, 99% of us got a BUFF in mass-heal, because we didn't have any potency items that affected it. Now we do. That's a hugely effective spell, and it got buffed for 99% of us. So it's hard to say that healing has been nerfed, when 99% of the healers in this game just got a buff to mass heal, the most SP-effective healing spell out there.

Single Heal did drop some, but the cure spells went up...

But melee now have AC and PRR and dodge, where before most of them got hit every single time, now they actually get missed now and then.

I maxed out life-magic on my FvS, and I wear the healing gloves from the Reaver raid, and I have zero problems healing any group so far. I still cast offensively all the time, and I don't feel like I'm hurting on SP.

I don't even look at the heal numbers... I look at the red-bars, and they are easy to fill.

I DO look at my Divine Punishment numbers, and my blade barrier numbers, and those going down feel like a nerf...

But healing does not feel like a nerf to me... because the results haven't changed.

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But, but, but, Heal was nerfed!

How dare you make valid points when Healing was 'nerfed'!!!!

It's all about the nerf man.

Radiant Burst on my cleric with full metamagics (Emp. Heal, Empower, Maximize, Quicken) is significantly less potent than before the expansion release. I cannot travel in time to grab screenshots from the good old days, but the reduction (nerf) is near a factor 2. I often do not even hit 200 now on live.

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Originally Posted by Bakarne

Radiant Burst on my cleric with full metamagics (Emp. Heal, Empower, Maximize, Quicken) is significantly less potent than before the expansion release. I cannot travel in time to grab screenshots from the good old days, but the reduction (nerf) is near a factor 2. I often do not even hit 200 now on live.

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I cant say that is what im seeing, mine is significantly better now, and the aura is better as well, pre U14 i was fetting about 26 per tick, now its 44 and 100+ crits.....

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Originally Posted by ric0

I cant say that is what im seeing, mine is significantly better now, and the aura is better as well, pre U14 i was fetting about 26 per tick, now its 44 and 100+ crits.....

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Mine are both well bellow U13 levels.

Are you sure you're checking all things equal and not with extra healing amp, better devotion items or with destiny bonus?

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Originally Posted by Thrudh

I hear what you're saying... I do care about the numbers in most of the game (i.e. DPS), and you make good points about optimizing APs spent and gear used for healing, etc.

If my DPS goes down 30%, I care because I'm killing slower, and I would notice that.... If my healing goes down 30%, but everyone now has easily acquired 30% amp, and PRR and AC and Dodge and I have more SP, and I don't notice it being any harder when healing a group, then I don't care as much about the exact numbers...

Look, 99% of us got a BUFF in mass-heal, because we didn't have any potency items that affected it. Now we do. That's a hugely effective spell, and it got buffed for 99% of us. So it's hard to say that healing has been nerfed, when 99% of the healers in this game just got a buff to mass heal, the most SP-effective healing spell out there.

Single Heal did drop some, but the cure spells went up...

But melee now have AC and PRR and dodge, where before most of them got hit every single time, now they actually get missed now and then.

I maxed out life-magic on my FvS, and I wear the healing gloves from the Reaver raid, and I have zero problems healing any group so far. I still cast offensively all the time, and I don't feel like I'm hurting on SP.

I don't even look at the heal numbers... I look at the red-bars, and they are easy to fill.

I DO look at my Divine Punishment numbers, and my blade barrier numbers, and those going down feel like a nerf...

But healing does not feel like a nerf to me... because the results haven't changed.

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/this

For those of you who believe the doooom and have shelved your clerics, don't. Healing is way, wary easier post Motu. My cleric is sitting at 2700 sp. He is geared, he is my TR, yes, but most is from the destiny. My cures and heals heal more, which is handy with epic elite requiring more healing. I drink LESS pots and contribute more dps, both melee and, after all changes are considered, with spells. Read the developer post, it provides a very long, well thought out response that explains the changes.
Please don't discourage people from playing their divines.

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Originally Posted by Darthbadger

/this

For those of you who believe the doooom and have shelved your clerics, don't. Healing is way, wary easier post Motu. My cleric is sitting at 2700 sp. He is geared, he is my TR, yes, but most is from the destiny. My cures and heals heal more, which is handy with epic elite requiring more healing. I drink LESS pots and contribute more dps, both melee and, after all changes are considered, with spells. Read the developer post, it provides a very long, well thought out response that explains the changes.
Please don't discourage people from playing their divines.

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I don't think that those upset from not getting a boost in their healing spells is from geared out tr'd clerics. I have one and she heals just fine. On the other hand, my melee FVS Half-Orc is struggling quite a bit to keep up with the new expanded HP of her melee contemporaries. There is less versatility in divines and that is upsetting.

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Originally Posted by Darthbadger

/this

For those of you who believe the doooom and have shelved your clerics, don't. Healing is way, wary easier post Motu. My cleric is sitting at 2700 sp. He is geared, he is my TR, yes, but most is from the destiny. My cures and heals heal more, which is handy with epic elite requiring more healing. I drink LESS pots and contribute more dps, both melee and, after all changes are considered, with spells. Read the developer post, it provides a very long, well thought out response that explains the changes.
Please don't discourage people from playing their divines.

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Not everyone is experiencing this. In particular, I think Radiant Servants are getting many offsetting buffs here. A FVS casting Heal is definitely healing for less, even with decent equipment. And while everyone is gaining HP and taking more damage, my experience in pugs tells me that improved healing amp is far from a given.

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Originally Posted by Auralana7214

I don't think that those upset from not getting a boost in their healing spells is from geared out tr'd clerics. I have one and she heals just fine. On the other hand, my melee FVS Half-Orc is struggling quite a bit to keep up with the new expanded HP of her melee contemporaries. There is less versatility in divines and that is upsetting.

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Most of the people who have been ranting that this is a nerf are multiple TR divines who had their toon set up in a very specific way which makes it tougher to reslot gear to be optimal again with the big 3 - healing/DOTs/blade barrier. Most of those ungeared mid level clerics will take a hit only until they reslot gear with the new attributes. That gear drops like rain and the AH/vendors are saturated with it.

We know melee would be tougher to pull off quite a few weeks before the launch of the update, knowing full well we would have to either go with generic potency which will be much weaker, or slot single spell type amp items into slots that do not occupy either hand. This did not just happen with this current patch.

I have seen quite a few melee divines playing well however. They are not the "second class characters" many forumites claimed they would be.

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Originally Posted by Chai

I have seen quite a few melee divines playing well however. They are not the "second class characters" many forumites claimed they would be.

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Yep. My WF FVS still plays fine. I use potency crystal cove tricorne and I heal more with mass heal and a bit less with single target heal. And I heal myself for ****all, thanks turbine for breaking WF Healer's friend. Also thanks for fixing the heal amp uncentered exploit in 14.1 but still not fixing Healer's friend.....

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Originally Posted by Chai

We know melee would be tougher to pull off quite a few weeks before the launch of the update, knowing full well we would have to either go with generic potency which will be much weaker, or slot single spell type amp items into slots that do not occupy either hand. This did not just happen with this current patch.

I have seen quite a few melee divines playing well however. They are not the "second class characters" many forumites claimed they would be.

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I think you are agreeing with me. It's so hard to tell.

My melee divine, Orcalana, plays quite well, but my guildy has over 900 HP and it is certainly much harder to keep him up than before U14. Granted Orcalana is still geared for pre-U14 as I had not played her much since the update, and that will soon change when I get items other than weapons to help her out or craft something. I'm not saying it is impossible. Just more difficult and limiting.

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Originally Posted by nick_robinsonchia

Thats a cute mary poppins-ish take on it.

I care about numbers. They tell me whether I need that next tier of life magic to heal myself right up. They tell me whether I need to even slot a devotion Item or can get away with decent amp a ghetto pot and my enhancements points. They tell me what I can do and what I cannot. In game experience trumps it but having a good understanding on what areas I can scrimp on too improve my character elsewhere means alot in the big picture. To anyone who loves their divines anyway. I have seen some of ur build posts and the ones you obviously love go into alot more detail than 'Who cares about the numbers - it works fine'. Do you have the weak/inefficient/ crit healing line too? Most of the peeps I see posting similar comments may have divines in the stable but arnt really divine players.

Keep on advocating.

N

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But remember, math never helped solve problems, it only further complicates them.

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Originally Posted by MRMechMan

But remember, math never helped solve problems, it only further complicates them.

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I get the feeling a lot of people where molested by long divisions as children or something...

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Originally Posted by Auralana7214

I don't think that those upset from not getting a boost in their healing spells is from geared out tr'd clerics. I have one and she heals just fine. On the other hand, my melee FVS Half-Orc is struggling quite a bit to keep up with the new expanded HP of her melee contemporaries. There is less versatility in divines and that is upsetting.

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While I always love your healing in-game and hope you won't stop it, I am always just happy you have those res spells.... now thats some healing, 100%!

DDO seems to want people to 'know their roles' recently. Not impressed. I won't be a hastebot, and I wouldn't expect anyone to be my healbot, either. Thats what hirelings are for.

I expect others to be able to enjoy the killing as much as I do. Turbine refuses to give ANYTHING to make melees better, and now seems to want healers just healin. While the nightmare nerf was expected, MELEES NEED SOMETHING TO MAKE THEM STOP WHINING.

Forcing clerics to heal them more is just going to add more wrath.

Frankly, I suck at healing. If you party with my FVS, you will be lucky to get a heal. Sorry about that. If I notice, between battles, that someone is hurt - well then heck, sure, line up for the mass heal. I am pretty good about throwing those true res healing spells... you know, the ones that bring you back to life with full health.

But I play it like I play my casters. The best defence is a good offence. Monsters I kill can't hurt my party, therefore I can heal less.

Seems to work so far.

A random thought - Perhaps melees (say, level 18 or higher) can get a free feat - expanded vorpals. To make some of these weapons more effective.

Or, perhaps Turbine could hire some people who actually play the game to tell them how to make changes. I dunno, seems unlikely though.