Monster Champion Feedback

play normal is uninteresting in the extreme, there has disney yes welcome to use the words of a certain person, more loot is even less good. I do not want to play frustrated, thank you for the proposal.

the problem and that it implements the champion difficulty scaling is destroyed and that either you play bizounours world or you play in one shot kill mod, or if that is me already come impossibiliter could kill a champion because orange mob not enough dps and heals mob completemnet happen to 1/3 of its pv.

then yes the champion kills the game as it is progressively more difficult to break the system of the game that could've be avoided by implementing a champion option for those who want to play with the active has entered the quest

but it was too much to ask as I am someone who know recognize when a battle is lost before I retire to spend my money in another game that are more and more people.

and few know that to be losing money will wake up the shareholder warner who ask accounts and will change the way because it gives ddo will be a mmo without comunity, so no income, so death

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by S3R3N1T7

an example of someone turbine never have to listen.
This is the same example of elitist condescendente person who takes seriously as he did not even take the mental effort to understand the point of view of the person who does not think like him.

LISTEN even more effectively in this kind of person you will eventually lose all the comunity except a small core of consenguain but unfortunately for you the game will be a dead time.

when I read you got sentence it makes me even more desire to never come back in this game.

ps: if you find the game too easy starts redo a character lvl 1, which did not tr and etr and stopped insulting to another player who does not think like you

" google trad "

---

not insult.. but if you read the forum, people are leaving because the game it not a challenge and lag on their tops contains. Now you want to make it easy, because your toon can not handle EE, you can play normal. Went I start playing the game was tough, only 1 level of Epic and few people can handle. The players didnt complain if they wipe. force a party to have different classes like healers. Now you can heal yourself.

Everything in life has a Cycle of Live. If DDO has to reinvent it self, they are trying there best to do it. Players counsil good way to get feedback from player, maybe they can improved with a polls.

The only way I see it, now focus in balance classes and lag. Then gather, marketing information to launch a Expansion to improved many aspect of the game that are consider weakness compare to other new mmo (example, customize toons, graphics, etc etc) that can bring new players and former players to the game.

Since Monster Champions can get immunity to instakill, I think there should be obstacles for dps machines. Something like: Immune to slash damage, Immune to Piercing damage, or Immune to bludgeon damage. That would force melee players to swap weapons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by esojiul

not insult.. but if you read the forum, people are leaving because the game it not a challenge and lag on their tops contains. Now you want to make it easy, because your toon can not handle EE, you can play normal. Went I start playing the game was tough, only 1 level of Epic and few people can handle. The players didnt complain if they wipe. force a party to have different classes like healers. Now you can heal yourself.

Everything in life has a Cycle of Live. If DDO has to reinvent it self, they are trying there best to do it. Players counsil good way to get feedback from player, maybe they can improved with a polls.

The only way I see it, now focus in balance classes and lag. Then gather, marketing information to launch a Expansion to improved many aspect of the game that are consider weakness compare to other new mmo (example, customize toons, graphics, etc etc) that can bring new players and former players to the game.

---

I don't believe the champion system is effectively adding challenge to the game. For my high prr characters champions provide no challenge at all. For my low PRR characters I sometimes get hit from a megacrit which i don't consider challenging - just annoying. I don't mind the champions all that much and participate in the remnant system, but I don't feel the system is balanced enough as it's designed today. When the level cap is increased to 30 the problems will become even more pronounced if they are not addressed.

PRR is overweighted in the current game and a massive easy button. Champions need something like a mortal fear proc which works against all characters equally rather than something like fortification bypass which is much tougher on low PRR characters because that is the only remaining protection against megacrits once the fortification is removed.

After pausing DDO for over a year and being back for about a week it took me a while to find out what that ridiculous crown was supposed to be. My level 8 cleric almost died after being swarmed by Iron Defender Champoins (3 or 4 of them, it was hard to tell) in the Catacombs on elite. Yes, that's effective level 5, but the knockdown saving throw was natural 1, which didn't help. I ended up at 2 HP which surprised me, since I thought DR 5/- and AC 46 should be enough for a level 5 quest, alas it barely was. That was almost the first time that cleric ever died.

Why are there items with Deathblock? Because noone would want to play the game if there was no real chance to safeguard against one bad saving throw killing your character, but the absurd randomness of champions puts one in a tight spot, especially when soloing and a single peak of damage output is more difficult to reach.

In addition the reward system is nonsensical. Why can you get regular loot from finishing quests well below your level but not loot from champions? If you do every quest on N/H/E (as many people do), you quickly outlevel your quests and either skip some quests or have your XP rewards penalized. A penalty that is smartly placed because it keeps high-level chars from farming XP in easy quests. No high-level char however would ever farm in a true low-level quest for items, because it's simply not efficient. I get the idea to make it more difficult to farm the remnants, but why not simply scale those to the effective level of a quest or CR of the monster? It's not like farming is impossible the way it is now, all you do with the chosen approach is to deter people from experiencing all the content there is. If you punish me for doing quests slightly below my level, I just have to skip a few so I don't get ahead of myself.

There still seems to be an importance of discussion about difficulty i noticed and take the Topic serious.

I have a Heavy S&B Fighter with 2nd Hand gear, medium barb and light Monk with their bank filled with the good stuff. Yes, from time to time they push up the daisys. All three don´t have severe issues to make it from 1-20, without taking much notice of Champions, really. Even on epics i only remember 2-3 champs at all who took me down. At last, it was me who underestimated the Situation or my wrong tactics. Champ or not.

Heed in General to cover all important things with gear that are neccessary and don´t give a weak spot on yourself. Nothing more to add.

If you think that this is a matter of difficulty you are quite mistaken. Difficulty is good, randomness is the matter here, as well as the unfairness of rewards as mentioned in my previous post. If I were to make a dungeon where every 2 seconds you have to roll a d100 and on a 1 you die, it would be pretty difficult but most definitely not in a good way. A champion Ooze on very low level be devastating to certain chars (those with few HP and no points in spotting) without actually adding to the intrigue of a dungeon and without a real chance for most heroes to prepare for it. Players want a challenge, especially on HE, but they want a challenge they can prepare for and they can caluclate with. At least that's what I wont and what RPGs should be about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slarden

I don't believe the champion system is effectively adding challenge to the game. For my high prr characters champions provide no challenge at all. For my low PRR characters I sometimes get hit from a megacrit which i don't consider challenging - just annoying. I don't mind the champions all that much and participate in the remnant system, but I don't feel the system is balanced enough as it's designed today. When the level cap is increased to 30 the problems will become even more pronounced if they are not addressed.

PRR is overweighted in the current game and a massive easy button. Champions need something like a mortal fear proc which works against all characters equally rather than something like fortification bypass which is much tougher on low PRR characters because that is the only remaining protection against megacrits once the fortification is removed.

---

For lower PPr build has to be oppsite like dodge

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by esojiul

For lower PPr build has to be oppsite like dodge

---

When you take crit damage from a champion with fort bypass dodge doesn't give you any damage reduction at all and might end up dead if you have low PRR. If you have high PRR you will get significant damage reduction and can heal right back

Dodge is damage avoidance and PRR/fortification are forms of damage mitigation. It doesn't matter how good your damage avoidance is you will still get the big hits from megacrits. PRR always reduces the damage - there is no chance of it failing to provide a benefit.

The champion system results in larger spike damage against low PRR characters and regardless of other forms of defense it can result in getting one-shot.

PRR always works.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slarden

When you take crit damage from a champion with fort bypass dodge doesn't give you any damage reduction at all and might end up dead if you have low PRR. If you have high PRR you will get significant damage reduction and can heal right back

Dodge is damage avoidance and PRR/fortification are forms of damage mitigation. It doesn't matter how good your damage avoidance is you will still get the big hits from megacrits. PRR always reduces the damage - there is no chance of it failing to provide a benefit.

The champion system results in larger spike damage against low PRR characters and regardless of other forms of defense it can result in getting one-shot.

PRR always works.

---

the key for a monk it to try to receive less hits. 4 example- if you have use that class on EE, you will know even you required displacement scrolls, instead you give them high dogde, if can make it easy to play on EE. In other words some classes can have low PPR, for mitigated dmg , but high dodge (reduce the amount of hit they receive), that give enough time to heal it self.

Actually to be fair the maximum amount of dodge, you can get it comparing the amount of dmg that can a high ppr toon can get it 5min.

Generally I like champions. Adds a level of difficulty and uncertainly. My only problem with champions is that occasionally you run into one with right combination of buffs and he just starts whacking players left and right like we were bowling pins.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by esojiul

the key for a monk it to try to receive less hits. 4 example- if you have use that class on EE, you will know even you required displacement scrolls, instead you give them high dogde, if can make it easy to play on EE. In other words some classes can have low PPR, for mitigated dmg , but high dodge (reduce the amount of hit they receive), that give enough time to heal it self.

Actually to be fair the maximum amount of dodge, you can get it comparing the amount of dmg that can a high ppr toon can get it 5min.

---

And none of that matters because you can't avoid getting hit all the time. If you get hit with a crit by an enemy with full fortification bypass and you have low PRR - you are still going to die. Those extreme spikes won't kill you with high PRR.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slarden

And none of that matters because you can't avoid getting hit all the time. If you get hit with a crit by an enemy with full fortification bypass and you have low PRR - you are still going to die. Those extreme spikes won't kill you with high PRR.

---

My friend got smashed by around 800 hp hit when we were running EE GH at level 25 last week. Is this a challenge that devs planned to offer? It is nothing but: uhm wut, that's silly, get a rez and keep going moment. What a challenge, I must say.

I like the concept of champions but I would love to see them have more defensive skills (MRR, PRR, Dodge, Concealment, Ghostly, elemental resistance, high DR, Troll regeneration, anti magic, etc.).

Also, change the remnant and chest drop from character is same level as quest on the Epic side. The character same level as quest is great in heroic but not so much in Epic.

An observation more than a complaint:
Champion DR is a PITA and the champions that do heavy critical damage are very deadly at lower levels.

I had to laugh when I saw champion Kobold's in Waterworks with Deathward cast on them as they activated... ridiculous.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by slarden

The champion system results in larger spike damage against low PRR characters and regardless of other forms of defense it can result in getting one-shot.

PRR always works.

---

I play many toons still, some of which are still in robes and don't have a zillion PRR PLs.

Is it ironic that to my already over-powered characters (namely Heavy Armor Pally and Barb) champions add so little additional difficulty that it doesn't even register yet to my under-powered characters (robe-wearing monks and casters - who at this time are so fare from optimal it's not even funny) have been one-shotted enough times that it's annoying.

It's one of the reasons champions fail - they don't add change to that which is over-powered, they add challenge to classes which aren't.

Scrap this ham-fisted fail of an idea, Turbine can do better than this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ape_Man

I play many toons still, some of which are still in robes and don't have a zillion PRR PLs.

Is it ironic that to my already over-powered characters (namely Heavy Armor Pally and Barb) champions add so little additional difficulty that it doesn't even register yet to my under-powered characters (robe-wearing monks and casters - who at this time are so fare from optimal it's not even funny) have been one-shotted enough times that it's annoying.

It's one of the reasons champions fail - they don't add change to that which is over-powered, they add challenge to classes which aren't.

Scrap this ham-fisted fail of an idea, Turbine can do better than this.

---

+1

Whilst I like the concept of champions, just putting an arbitrary buff on champions without looking into what mobs are going to end up being champions is wrong. There should never be a case of coming across a champion that is harder to defeat than the boss of the quest, especially when they don't drop anything worth the hassle of fighting them. Another point of annoyance is the Remnants, why can't they just go straight to inventory like shards of tokens do? In short a decent idea, poorly implemented.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rys

My friend got smashed by around 800 hp hit when we were running EE GH at level 25 last week. Is this a challenge that devs planned to offer? It is nothing but: uhm wut, that's silly, get a rez and keep going moment. What a challenge, I must say.

---

In toee especially part2 elelmental area it's "normal" if you get hit for 600+ by ooze elementals, djinni, gargoyle e many others. Oh and 600 is on a toon with a bit of PRR actually around 120.

That's not challenge, it's calle drandom death that you can't do anything to prevent.

edit: forgot to mention orange champ harpie on toee 1: she hit for 700-800 x hit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vanhooger

In toee especially part2 elelmental area it's "normal" if you get hit for 600+ by ooze elementals, djinni, gargoyle e many others. Oh and 600 is on a toon with a bit of PRR actually around 120.

That's not challenge, it's calle drandom death that you can't do anything to prevent.

edit: forgot to mention orange champ harpie on toee 1: she hit for 700-800 x hit.

---

I actually don't have a problem with mobs hitting hard in ToEE because it was supposed to be so called "end game". But I still think that the implementation of Champions was a lazy fix and I am fascinated by people in this thread saying about the posters here who criticise Champions that they are only complaining because they can't handle it and should drop to the lower difficulty. That is the complete and utter bs.

Champions didn't adress the real problem at all. As it is now, they still don't give any challenge to the high PRR mostly melee characters, instead they only became an annoyance for casters who are in a bad spot with sp conservation anyway and some other robe wearers. They should have at least bypass the percentage of PRR to give some proper challenge to the low and the high PRR characters in the same time. Complete fortification bypass is a total silliness and in combination with some other buffs we get those crazy one shot numbers. If the true seeing was some lame attempt to stop zergers, they could have used see invisibility instead (but I know how some people in charge atm hate displacement clickies and yet are now slapping lesser displacement on everything :rolleyes:, so it isn't probably that). They should have also give the champions different colours of crowns showing the combination of buffs at least because the examination window is unusable in a real combat. So now I have got into the point when I completly ignore the Champions (no "tactic" kill it first) because there is a high chance he's not any dangerous and I can't simply seem to bother to check. Not even gonna get into the Remnants "we have to give them some carrot or the forums will explode" resulting in potions of waterbreathing and a lot of other crying to make them actually add something worth the look.