Updated Death Penalty and Permanent Item Damage Changes

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Originally Posted by Ciaran

Heh, "my precious" I like it! In fact, my paladin's first and only run of Ghosts of Perdition scored her both the Ethereal Bracers and a +6 Charisma ring as an end reward. That ring will become bound and will be her "precious". :D

So going by your wording only bound items are able to have eldritch rituals performed on them, correct? I'm pretty sure I read this elsewhere, but just want to make sure.

Does that mean that I could ADD properties to my Sword of Shadows? :eek:

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What happens when you get something better and want to pass those on down to an alt? Your "precious" becomes wasted bank space.

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Originally Posted by Eladrin

That's just one example of eventually many Eldritch Rituals.

Increasing an item's hardness by 5 and durability by 10 can be quite useful for fragile items, as you suggested, or even just because it will decrease death wear and significantly reduce normal wear and tear.

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A bloodrage symbiot that didnt go poof... SWEEET!!!!

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Originally Posted by Riot

Has anyone asked How Item Defense will play into this new equation?

If so, link please.... or quote.

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Several of us tested on Risia and confirmed ID did not reduce the risk of damge. In the original thread El said that once you were dead ID shouldn't help you although several of us suggested it should (and that possibly at least 1 level should be given to everyone as an option)

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Originally Posted by Oreg

What happens when you get something better and want to pass those on down to an alt? Your "precious" becomes wasted bank space.

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no you sell the item to help pay to make the bound one better

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Originally Posted by Oreg

What happens when you get something better and want to pass those on down to an alt? Your "precious" becomes wasted bank space.

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Well, being that it is the first +6 charisma item I've ever scored in 1.6 years of playing and maybe the third +6 charisma item I've ever seen or heard of being pulled on top of the fact that we don't know for sure what kind of enhancements can be applied using eldritch rituals (it's possible a +6 item could become +7, +8, etc) I'm willing to take that risk. Plus, I don't think rings have that great of a hardness anyway.

Besides, I'm not going risk permanent damage on a +6 item for "what might happen", you know?

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Originally Posted by ArkoHighStar

no you sell the item to help pay to make the bound one better

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Or you pass the better one "down." This is what I haven't been understanding about this complaint.

Obviously you have two characters who need charisma, just leave the bound one where it is and pass the other one to the character who doesn't have a bound charisma item already.

I mean, I understand that in some cases this doesn't work perfectly, when there are things on the better one that are specific to one of the characters, but in most cases you can just give the newer items to the other character.

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Originally Posted by Eladrin

I guess I should have blocked out the materials, rather than cause a mad rampage to the BAM, huh? ;)

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Many Duergar died to bring you this information. :cool:

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Originally Posted by xman26

Can we unbind items? If not, this is still not a perfect system. I like many others who have voiced their concern in the other thread like to pass down equipment to our new lower toons or around with our guild members and friends.

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Then don't bind it in the first place. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by MysticTheurge

Or you pass the better one "down." This is what I haven't been understanding about this complaint.

Obviously you have two characters who need charisma, just leave the bound one where it is and pass the other one to the character who doesn't have a bound charisma item already.

I mean, I understand that in some cases this doesn't work perfectly, when there are things on the better one that are specific to one of the characters, but in most cases you can just give the newer items to the other character.

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weapons and armor I will probably not bind, but items especially plain jane stat items like +6 int bandanna, that has low hardness, I would, and chances are once we get these new dungeons run on elite we will be seeing quite a few +6 items drop, just look at how common +4 stat items are now.

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Originally Posted by Riot

Has anyone asked How Item Defense will play into this new equation?

If so, link please.... or quote.

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I haven't seen it brought up since the last epic thread, but in the other thread, it was stated that Item Defense would not help versus death damage. And now that there is no permanent damage linked to death damage, it doesn't matter on repairs either (not sure if Item Defense improved repair rolls, but doesn't matter now anyway).

Eladrin, a followup question. Can you make Death Damage to items appear as a different color on the Durability bar? I know there are going to be complaints the first time someone repairs and suffers permanent damage. Not from death damage, but from normal wear and tear damage that is on top of/mixed in with death damage. Having wear and tear in red (as now) and death damage in yellow would show players that they are repairing both types of damage and that permanent damage may still occur from normal wear and tear damage.

I cant wait to bind my masterwork Dagger.

Hurray :(. Now people can get from L1-L16 without ever worrying about dieing. This adjustment is more acceptable, but I still think there needs to be an XP death penalty. Why not just add this to the death penalty for capped characters and leave all uncapped characters alone.

I still don't like it, but not that it matters. It sounds like a done deal. I guess you guys will be seeing my goodbye post soon.

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Originally Posted by ccheath776

It kind of puts off the big 400 lb gorilla in the corner for the time being. In that eventually uber items will be so plentiful as to make the game almost trivial.
If everyone walked around with a vorpal, a banisher, a disruptor, what kind of thing does that do?

Well from a developer side you have to make the game a challenge so then what happens is you get more over the top and unfun quests like the Abbott so the powergamers can have their crack while us casuals are left in the cold unable to do the higher end stuff not having the time to grind to get the better stuff.
Its what happened in the card game MTG. Eventually it got to a critical mass point where the game was simply not playable anymore as there was a noticeable gap between the haves and the have nots. So much so that they had to revamp the rules to counter it.

So now instead of having a mechanic that reduce uber loot you have one that keeps it at the same rate it is now.
Which is ok for the current time frame but in the future its going to cause a major economic crash in the system.
The scenario is that every one playing will have a million plat or more, everyone will have a vorpal or disruptor. And to not have one is to be considered gimped.
People flood to the AH's looking for these weapons which are amazingly abundant and cheap. People buy them up with their new found wealth. The pooring of money into the system and to players is massive and inflation ultimately sets in as posters have to raise prices trying to get as much as they can but it has the reverse effect as suddenly everyone has all of the most uber weapons available, 20 million plat, and the demand drops sharply as everyone has attained what they want.
Suddenly quests become easy, new raids are beaten in a matter of hours not days after release, devs become frustrated and go out and design these overly massively difficult quests with bosses that kill you on zone in.

Maybe it wont happen. Maybe it will never happen.
IN the end I like the change, it makes everyone happy. Bravo to the devs for listening.
But it doesn't change the problem eventhough it is small at the moment.
I think this will have to be addressed again down the line at some point. The issue is do we deal with it now or later.
Looks like later.
Not mad, or complaining but it is something to consider.

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Hmmm, this already happened over the last few months :) I found the idea of how the orginal implementation would effect the economy the most interesting by far. All other aspects I found to be of little worry really. I believe items stay in game for too long, when used to the extreme extent and this has ha da negative impact. Now to rethink it through on how this will effect the economy, with no permenant damage possible from death????? Seems like a cop-out to me really..... Sorry to disagree with the uber posters here, but I see this change to the change as a bad move.... :(

Jeers to all devs. bound items should either be bound to an account or be able to be unbound at some sort of cost. Again, doing things without thinking them thru. The XP debt penalty worked and was fine, now we have a new system because people wanted DDO to be more like WOW. To them I say, if you want WOW, go play WOW, this is DDO. Welp, I guess its going to take the mass exidous that will occour to make the devs realize that the die hards were the only ones keeping them with a job.

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Originally Posted by xman26

Jeers to all devs. bound items should either be bound to an account or be able to be unbound at some sort of cost. Again, doing things without thinking them thru. The XP debt penalty worked and was fine, now we have a new system because people wanted DDO to be more like WOW. To them I say, if you want WOW, go play WOW, this is DDO. Welp, I guess its going to take the mass exidous that will occour to make the devs realize that the die hards were the only ones keeping them with a job.

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Except you seem to be the only person pushing for the "unbinding" of items.

Unbinding an item doesn't really make sense. I can understand why you want it, but it gives you benefits without the cost (i.e. the cost is being unable to transfer the item to other characters).

You don't have to bind anything, you just run the risk of getting perm damage (exactly like you did before). You can completely ignore the addition of binding items and your game play will not change at all.

You can say the change to the death penalty impacts it, but since that item damage cannot cause any perm damage, it doesn't. Binding the items has 0 impact on what happens to an item when you die.

I'm just trying to understand why it is such a big deal to add an optional aspect to the game, that will have 0 impact on how you play.

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Originally Posted by xman26

Jeers to all devs. bound items should either be bound to an account or be able to be unbound at some sort of cost. Again, doing things without thinking them thru. The XP debt penalty worked and was fine, now we have a new system because people wanted DDO to be more like WOW. To them I say, if you want WOW, go play WOW, this is DDO. Welp, I guess its going to take the mass exidous that will occour to make the devs realize that the die hards were the only ones keeping them with a job.

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I don't understand where you're coming from. Item damage has been scaled back from what it was and the chance for permanent item damage has been removed from item damage accrued from death. My most damaged item is a +1 greataxe of greater undead bane that I've had for over a year and it's been used several times among several different characters. It's still got 35% blue bar and I've since pulled several other greater undead bane items.

To put it simply, the need to bind items to prevent permanent damage has been mostly rendered unnecessary. Now the only real reason to do it is to attune your items (Arkenpliers FTW!) to a character for eldritch rituals or to protect low durability items that you really don't want to lose. You're saying it's not fair that you can't pass down those eldritch items to lowbie alts? Think of those items as raid loot, because that's basically the direction raid loot seems to be going in MOD6.

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Originally Posted by Prinstoni

Hurray :(. Now people can get from L1-L16 without ever worrying about dieing. This adjustment is more acceptable, but I still think there needs to be an XP death penalty. Why not just add this to the death penalty for capped characters and leave all uncapped characters alone.

I still don't like it, but not that it matters. It sounds like a done deal. I guess you guys will be seeing my goodbye post soon.

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Don't leave over this, that's nuts. Leave if you are bored, but don't do it because of some silly line in the sand.

Also, you can mail your uber unbound gear to any of the characters in my sig. :P

You know, I'd vote for the new system being added to the existing XP debt.
*is lead away to the Guillotine by the mob*

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Originally Posted by jjflanigan

Except you seem to be the only person pushing for the "unbinding" of items.

Unbinding an item doesn't really make sense. I can understand why you want it, but it gives you benefits without the cost (i.e. the cost is being unable to transfer the item to other characters).

You don't have to bind anything, you just run the risk of getting perm damage (exactly like you did before). You can completely ignore the addition of binding items and your game play will not change at all.

You can say the change to the death penalty impacts it, but since that item damage cannot cause any perm damage, it doesn't. Binding the items has 0 impact on what happens to an item when you die.

I'm just trying to understand why it is such a big deal to add an optional aspect to the game, that will have 0 impact on how you play.

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Yep, that's what I would like to know as well. If you have a OPTION to bind items, and you personally think that that idea totally sucks and would ruin your gameplay...why can't you just NOT optionally bind anything? Nothing would change for you. Unbound items could still take damage, like they do now, you could transfer them to whomever, like you do now, etc. I guess I do not see the problem with choices and options so various players can "customize" their gameplay more than they could before. If the Devs decided to just say "Screw it, all items bind, and can never be transferred ever", well, I would agree with you that that is a bad decision and it hoses players' choices in how they choose to play. But, since that is not the case....well, what's the problem?

Trelessia
14 Cleric
Trelanis

Just wanted to say .... Thank you devs for listening to your player base
the new changes to the changes are much more acceptable :)
I no longer have that bad feeling in my gut :)
long live DDO

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Originally Posted by Mercules

They could... you know... use tactics to not die so much. :D

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Yes, tactics do reduce the death rate. But casters have a much lower margin of error than non-casters due to their lower HP, lower Reflex saves, lower fortitude saves, and lower AC. For instance, I ran Inferno of the Damned the other night, and most of the people died 0-1 times. Our poor sorc died so much that he barely got any XP. He was just one-shotted too many times. If we weren't using tactics properly, I think that there would have been a lot more deaths.

This is why it is important to realize that casters will be paying a much higher price for repairing due to the death tax than their non-caster counterparts. Yes, non-casters die too. Yes good tactics reduce deaths. All things being equal though, caster still die more often. They have for a long time been subject to a much slower level progression, but now their already expensive career choice is going to get even more so.